You have to realize that the Republicans neutered the SEC over the past 8 years with the glee of a garden shears-wielding Bob Barker. They intentionally placed at the head of the SEC industry insiders who were not going to look too closely at the industry they were ostensibly supposed to be regulating (much like they did for many other federal regulatory bodies, but that's a whole thread in of itself,) they made sure that the SEC was underfunded, making it impossible for it to properly regulate the securities industry, and they tied it up in enough red tape to choke a pack of pachyderms.
The result of that is Madoff. Plain and simple.
...the result of 8 years of gutting a regulatory agency is the creation of a 40 year old Ponzi scheme? Are you sure they stripped the SEC of its budget rather than just obligating the funds to building that time machine?
You did read that Madoff only submitted to SEC regulation for his investment firm in 2006, right?
At which point the Democrats controlled Congress. I don't really think you can pin Madoff on the Republicans.
You have to realize that the Republicans neutered the SEC over the past 8 years with the glee of a garden shears-wielding Bob Barker. They intentionally placed at the head of the SEC industry insiders who were not going to look too closely at the industry they were ostensibly supposed to be regulating (much like they did for many other federal regulatory bodies, but that's a whole thread in of itself,) they made sure that the SEC was underfunded, making it impossible for it to properly regulate the securities industry, and they tied it up in enough red tape to choke a pack of pachyderms.
The result of that is Madoff. Plain and simple.
...the result of 8 years of gutting a regulatory agency is the creation of a 40 year old Ponzi scheme? Are you sure they stripped the SEC of its budget rather than just obligating the funds to building that time machine?
You did read that Madoff only submitted to SEC regulation for his investment firm in 2006, right?
At which point the Democrats controlled Congress. I don't really think you can pin Madoff on the Republicans.
Could someone explain how registering with the SEC works? When do you need to register, why/how did Madoff go so long without registering, and does registering entail immediate oversight and examination of your records or does it take much longer?
You have to realize that the Republicans neutered the SEC over the past 8 years with the glee of a garden shears-wielding Bob Barker. They intentionally placed at the head of the SEC industry insiders who were not going to look too closely at the industry they were ostensibly supposed to be regulating (much like they did for many other federal regulatory bodies, but that's a whole thread in of itself,) they made sure that the SEC was underfunded, making it impossible for it to properly regulate the securities industry, and they tied it up in enough red tape to choke a pack of pachyderms.
The result of that is Madoff. Plain and simple.
...the result of 8 years of gutting a regulatory agency is the creation of a 40 year old Ponzi scheme? Are you sure they stripped the SEC of its budget rather than just obligating the funds to building that time machine?
You did read that Madoff only submitted to SEC regulation for his investment firm in 2006, right?
At which point the Democrats controlled Congress. I don't really think you can pin Madoff on the Republicans.
Could someone explain how registering with the SEC works? When do you need to register, why/how did Madoff go so long without registering, and does registering entail immediate oversight and examination of your records or does it take much longer?
If you're an Investment Advisor with more than 15 people you need to register that with the SEC. Madoff had well over 3,200 and didn't register.
Don't know much of anything else about it beyond that. Watch the Frontline Docu, though.
You have to realize that the Republicans neutered the SEC over the past 8 years with the glee of a garden shears-wielding Bob Barker. They intentionally placed at the head of the SEC industry insiders who were not going to look too closely at the industry they were ostensibly supposed to be regulating (much like they did for many other federal regulatory bodies, but that's a whole thread in of itself,) they made sure that the SEC was underfunded, making it impossible for it to properly regulate the securities industry, and they tied it up in enough red tape to choke a pack of pachyderms.
The result of that is Madoff. Plain and simple.
...the result of 8 years of gutting a regulatory agency is the creation of a 40 year old Ponzi scheme? Are you sure they stripped the SEC of its budget rather than just obligating the funds to building that time machine?
You did read that Madoff only submitted to SEC regulation for his investment firm in 2006, right?
At which point the Democrats controlled Congress. I don't really think you can pin Madoff on the Republicans.
Congress is in charge of the SEC?
Depends on what you mean. They are created and governed by federal law, headed by Presidential appointees that must be of both parties, and they serve legislative, judicial, and executive functions. But the point is that Madoff running a 40-year scheme that first filed with the SEC in 2006 doesn't scream "Republicans" to me.
SEC is run by political appointees of both parties.
I don't think you can pin mistakes like these entirely on Republicans, but they are the ones who:
1. Were originally for more deregulation.
2. Are for ever more deregulation.
3. Continue to be for more deregulation and total free-market economy even in the face of shit like Enron, Madoff, etc.
I don't think you can make a direct connection like Bush->Madoff or Reagan->Madoff, but the Republicans are the ones who have taken the position of "neuter the regulatory agencies, then appoint people who won't regulate anyway (either because they're from the industry they should be policing or they're incompetent)".
You have to realize that the Republicans neutered the SEC over the past 8 years with the glee of a garden shears-wielding Bob Barker. They intentionally placed at the head of the SEC industry insiders who were not going to look too closely at the industry they were ostensibly supposed to be regulating (much like they did for many other federal regulatory bodies, but that's a whole thread in of itself,) they made sure that the SEC was underfunded, making it impossible for it to properly regulate the securities industry, and they tied it up in enough red tape to choke a pack of pachyderms.
The result of that is Madoff. Plain and simple.
...the result of 8 years of gutting a regulatory agency is the creation of a 40 year old Ponzi scheme? Are you sure they stripped the SEC of its budget rather than just obligating the funds to building that time machine?
You did read that Madoff only submitted to SEC regulation for his investment firm in 2006, right?
At which point the Democrats controlled Congress. I don't really think you can pin Madoff on the Republicans.
Anyway, reading the article carefully, I noticed it said that Mrs. Madoff walked away with "just" 2.5MM. Just, guys. And here I was, being my dumb old self, thinking $2.5MM was a significant amount of money. Doh.
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Tiger BurningDig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tuberegular
Could someone explain how registering with the SEC works? When do you need to register, why/how did Madoff go so long without registering, and does registering entail immediate oversight and examination of your records or does it take much longer?
If you're an Investment Advisor with more than 15 people you need to register that with the SEC. Madoff had well over 3,200 and didn't register.
Don't know much of anything else about it beyond that. Watch the Frontline Docu, though.
The SEC registers people who buy or sell securities. Bernie was acting as a money manger, not an investment advisor. Instead of saying, 'you should buy or sell this', he said 'give me your money and i'll take care of it for you'. Under the existing law, money managers aren't required to register with the SEC, because they're selling their services as an investor, rather than investments, per se.
Anyway, reading the article carefully, I noticed it said that Mrs. Madoff walked away with "just" 2.5MM. Just, guys. And here I was, being my dumb old self, thinking $2.5MM was a significant amount of money. Doh.
is this the fucking Price is Right?
Do you always get a lovely parting gift even if you shit yourself and fall off the stage?
Anyway, reading the article carefully, I noticed it said that Mrs. Madoff walked away with "just" 2.5MM. Just, guys. And here I was, being my dumb old self, thinking $2.5MM was a significant amount of money. Doh.
is this the fucking Price is Right?
Do you always get a lovely parting gift even if you shit yourself and fall off the stage?
Well, if they don't have any evidence, and nobody will turn you in, then yes, you get off.
Anyway, reading the article carefully, I noticed it said that Mrs. Madoff walked away with "just" 2.5MM. Just, guys. And here I was, being my dumb old self, thinking $2.5MM was a significant amount of money. Doh.
They're journalists. Remember that to them making $250k/year makes you middle-middle class.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Anyway, reading the article carefully, I noticed it said that Mrs. Madoff walked away with "just" 2.5MM. Just, guys. And here I was, being my dumb old self, thinking $2.5MM was a significant amount of money. Doh.
is this the fucking Price is Right?
Do you always get a lovely parting gift even if you shit yourself and fall off the stage?
No, that's the money that was hers alone, and separate from her assets shared with Madoff.
Yeah that's crazy. Why do we even have sentences that long, anyway? Why not just say that anything over 100 years is "life" and leave it at that?
Because sentence length is aggregate and determines how early/often you start to get parole hearings.
It also determines what level of federal prison you're eligible for. The fact that he got 150 years means that he's ineligible to be put in a Club Fed.
Yeah, I'll be surprised if he serves 10, but then again I was never expecting him to pull the max 150 years. As to his wife, I understand why she gets to keep 2.5m (I think the main reason being simple expediency.) But she'll spend the rest of her life trying to keep lawyers from getting at it, so it's not like it's a pure windfall for her. I do wonder if she knew of the nefarious things going on though, would a normal person with little financial experience know when and what to question?
Yeah, I'll be surprised if he serves 10, but then again I was never expecting him to pull the max 150 years. As to his wife, I understand why she gets to keep 2.5m (I think the main reason being simple expediency.) But she'll spend the rest of her life trying to keep lawyers from getting at it, so it's not like it's a pure windfall for her. I do wonder if she knew of the nefarious things going on though, would a normal person with little financial experience know when and what to question?
It all depends how well he covered his tracks and what side of the business she was involved in.
I can't really say how well he managed two sets of books and who know about them....sounds like anyone who knows is keeping their mouth shut. I'm pretty sure he told anyone who knew anything "guys I'm taking the fall for this, but if you say one word I'll point the finger at you". I doubt he pulled it off alone.
Yeah, I'll be surprised if he serves 10, but then again I was never expecting him to pull the max 150 years. As to his wife, I understand why she gets to keep 2.5m (I think the main reason being simple expediency.) But she'll spend the rest of her life trying to keep lawyers from getting at it, so it's not like it's a pure windfall for her. I do wonder if she knew of the nefarious things going on though, would a normal person with little financial experience know when and what to question?
It all depends how well he covered his tracks and what side of the business she was involved in.
I can't really say how well he managed two sets of books and who know about them....sounds like anyone who knows is keeping their mouth shut. I'm pretty sure he told anyone who knew anything "guys I'm taking the fall for this, but if you say one word I'll point the finger at you". I doubt he pulled it off alone.
There's absolutely no way he pulled it off alone. Part of his 150 year sentence is probably directly related to the fact that he's been unwilling to point the finger or really explain how it was all done. If the Fed's do their job though, I would imagine we'll see a slow but steady stream of people being charged for their complicity in the scheme. Of course the damage is done, there's no way to get all that money back.
Thinking about it, actually, the 150 years makes sense. An awful lot of rich people got screwed by him, and they have way more influence than he and his (few remaining) friends do right now.
How long till she takes a "weekend off" in the Caymans?
with 5 or 6 empty suitcases
Man, if I was her as soon as the heat was down, I'd be putting all that money in an offshore trust fund with a executor who wouldn't let any of the funds out. I remember reading about some rich old bag who somehow pulled this off during a divorce and no matter what they did, they were unable to get at the money due to the executor stonewalling them at every front.
How long till she takes a "weekend off" in the Caymans?
with 5 or 6 empty suitcases
Man, if I was her as soon as the heat was down, I'd be putting all that money in an offshore trust fund with a executor who wouldn't let any of the funds out. I remember reading about some rich old bag who somehow pulled this off during a divorce and no matter what they did, they were unable to get at the money due to the executor stonewalling them at every front.
Except there's no executor that stupid, because they would very quickly realize that they could be facing federal charges.
How long till she takes a "weekend off" in the Caymans?
with 5 or 6 empty suitcases
Man, if I was her as soon as the heat was down, I'd be putting all that money in an offshore trust fund with a executor who wouldn't let any of the funds out. I remember reading about some rich old bag who somehow pulled this off during a divorce and no matter what they did, they were unable to get at the money due to the executor stonewalling them at every front.
Except there's no executor that stupid, because they would very quickly realize that they could be facing federal charges.
Well that was the whole point of making it an account in another country. Due to all the intricacies of the law, he was able to tell the lawyers to fuck off, she was allowed a certain stipend of the money on a reoccurring basis and that was it. I can't remember exactly how it was done, only that it was a fiendishly wicked plot she had cooked up. I'm sure they eventually got the money though.
Yeah, I'll be surprised if he serves 10, but then again I was never expecting him to pull the max 150 years. As to his wife, I understand why she gets to keep 2.5m (I think the main reason being simple expediency.) But she'll spend the rest of her life trying to keep lawyers from getting at it, so it's not like it's a pure windfall for her. I do wonder if she knew of the nefarious things going on though, would a normal person with little financial experience know when and what to question?
It all depends how well he covered his tracks and what side of the business she was involved in.
I can't really say how well he managed two sets of books and who know about them....sounds like anyone who knows is keeping their mouth shut. I'm pretty sure he told anyone who knew anything "guys I'm taking the fall for this, but if you say one word I'll point the finger at you". I doubt he pulled it off alone.
There's absolutely no way he pulled it off alone. Part of his 150 year sentence is probably directly related to the fact that he's been unwilling to point the finger or really explain how it was all done. If the Fed's do their job though, I would imagine we'll see a slow but steady stream of people being charged for their complicity in the scheme. Of course the damage is done, there's no way to get all that money back.
Theres an episode of Lie To Me based entirely around this,
the daughter did it and the dad just took the fall.
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Handsome CostanzaAsk me about 8bitdoRIP Iwata-sanRegistered Userregular
Yeah that's crazy. Why do we even have sentences that long, anyway? Why not just say that anything over 100 years is "life" and leave it at that?
It really is a shame that our society doesn't believe in the dead remaining in the afterlife where they lay in this world. Then if a prisoner died they would put his remains back in their original cells until the remainder of the sentence is carried out.
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Oh, I bet it is in the government's best interest to keep him nice and healthy with the best medical care possible.
Because he didn't commit one singular crime against one person and after awhile shit adds up.
That's a LOT of people!
Damnit, now I have to take back everything bad I said about Malthus.
Edit: Damnit!
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Fuck.
Congress is in charge of the SEC?
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
The purse strings, yes.
If you're an Investment Advisor with more than 15 people you need to register that with the SEC. Madoff had well over 3,200 and didn't register.
Don't know much of anything else about it beyond that. Watch the Frontline Docu, though.
I don't think you can pin mistakes like these entirely on Republicans, but they are the ones who:
1. Were originally for more deregulation.
2. Are for ever more deregulation.
3. Continue to be for more deregulation and total free-market economy even in the face of shit like Enron, Madoff, etc.
I don't think you can make a direct connection like Bush->Madoff or Reagan->Madoff, but the Republicans are the ones who have taken the position of "neuter the regulatory agencies, then appoint people who won't regulate anyway (either because they're from the industry they should be policing or they're incompetent)".
Clearly this is Clinton's fault.
(Also, great news for McCain.)
The SEC registers people who buy or sell securities. Bernie was acting as a money manger, not an investment advisor. Instead of saying, 'you should buy or sell this', he said 'give me your money and i'll take care of it for you'. Under the existing law, money managers aren't required to register with the SEC, because they're selling their services as an investor, rather than investments, per se.
is this the fucking Price is Right?
Do you always get a lovely parting gift even if you shit yourself and fall off the stage?
Well, if they don't have any evidence, and nobody will turn you in, then yes, you get off.
They're journalists. Remember that to them making $250k/year makes you middle-middle class.
It also determines what level of federal prison you're eligible for. The fact that he got 150 years means that he's ineligible to be put in a Club Fed.
It all depends how well he covered his tracks and what side of the business she was involved in.
I can't really say how well he managed two sets of books and who know about them....sounds like anyone who knows is keeping their mouth shut. I'm pretty sure he told anyone who knew anything "guys I'm taking the fall for this, but if you say one word I'll point the finger at you". I doubt he pulled it off alone.
There's absolutely no way he pulled it off alone. Part of his 150 year sentence is probably directly related to the fact that he's been unwilling to point the finger or really explain how it was all done. If the Fed's do their job though, I would imagine we'll see a slow but steady stream of people being charged for their complicity in the scheme. Of course the damage is done, there's no way to get all that money back.
Heh, Zombie Madoff.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
How long till she takes a "weekend off" in the Caymans?
with 5 or 6 empty suitcases
Man, if I was her as soon as the heat was down, I'd be putting all that money in an offshore trust fund with a executor who wouldn't let any of the funds out. I remember reading about some rich old bag who somehow pulled this off during a divorce and no matter what they did, they were unable to get at the money due to the executor stonewalling them at every front.
Except there's no executor that stupid, because they would very quickly realize that they could be facing federal charges.
Well that was the whole point of making it an account in another country. Due to all the intricacies of the law, he was able to tell the lawyers to fuck off, she was allowed a certain stipend of the money on a reoccurring basis and that was it. I can't remember exactly how it was done, only that it was a fiendishly wicked plot she had cooked up. I'm sure they eventually got the money though.
Theres an episode of Lie To Me based entirely around this,
It really is a shame that our society doesn't believe in the dead remaining in the afterlife where they lay in this world. Then if a prisoner died they would put his remains back in their original cells until the remainder of the sentence is carried out.
Think of the whacky sentencing there could be.
This guy could have gotten 6,000 years.
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