Possible Ticket

leftright

I was sitting in math class today and i got called down to talk with the school officer. He asked me if anything odd happened this morning, i said no. He said this morning i had "cut off a woman driving on ******** road while running the stop sign and then skidded after making the turn" she called the town/my school (dont know which) and lodged a complaint. I know for a fact i was stopped at the stop sign had my indicator on then turned onto the road.

1. I did not "cut her off" yes I was close to her after i pulled out but defnitly nothing dangerous.

2. I did not skid, however, 5 or 10 seconds after the turn the back of my car slid due to black ice (the roads here in NH were covered with it, we had two people skid in the parking lot today)

The officer said if she wants the town to give me a ticket then they just....have to give it to me. That seems a little odd that she can just say that...

Anyway what do you think my chances of getting a ticket are, and can I contest this, I know for a fact I didn't do anything wrong.

NightDragon

I can't imagine you could possibly get a ticket out of something just because somebody said you did it, with no other proof. Seems a little off to me.

iTunesIsEvil

No, the police can't give you a damn ticket on the basis of hearsay. There's no he-said, she-said shit like that, unless it's a he-cop/she-cop doing the saying. Just don't admit to doing anything of the sort and you're fine. A police officer, or even a rent-a-cop, telling you that makes me a little angry.

[edit] I don't know NH law, but I have NEVER heard of police being able to do this.

Dr_Keenbean

The fact that they can give you a ticket because some vindictive bitch had a shitty morning is fairly lame. But, you can always fight it in court as opposed to paying it and getting points.

Odds are you'd just pay a court fee and be done with it. Even better would be if they made her pay it for being a stupid hobag.

Thanatos

Fight this to the bitter end. It's bullshit. If a cop had seen it, it'd be different, but if it's just some stupid cunt saying you did shit, they can't really ticket you for it. This is your school's security officer being a total douchebag, and throwing around his weight; he's bitter because he doesn't get to push around adults, so he's pushing around kids, instead.

It may not work out in your favor merely because you're a teenager and she's an adult, and the courts suck like that, but I don't think it's likely.

Drez

A cop can only issue a ticket if he witnesses the traffic violation. End.

Also, I can't say this enough - nobody of authority in a school knows anything about anything except academics (if even that), including the school "officer."

Thanatos

Drez wrote:

A cop can only issue a ticket if he witnesses the traffic violation. End.

Also, I can't say this enough - nobody of authority in a school knows anything about anything except academics (if even that), including the school "officer."

I'm guessing by "school officer" he means the on-campus police officer, who would be in a position to know these things, but would get his jollies by pushing around teenagers, even moreso than other cops.

Drez

Thanatos wrote:

Drez wrote:

A cop can only issue a ticket if he witnesses the traffic violation. End.

Also, I can't say this enough - nobody of authority in a school knows anything about anything except academics (if even that), including the school "officer."

I'm guessing by "school officer" he means the on-campus police officer, who would be in a position to know these things, but would get his jollies by pushing around teenagers, even moreso than other cops.

From experience, campus officers - high school and college - have absolutely no authority or jurisdiction except on campus. Unless the OP goes up to him/her and says "yeah, and then I backed over the fat bitch and killed her when she got out of her car to yell at me" the school officer can't do anything.

He/she certainly can't issue a ticket for a crime that he didn't even witness and supposedly happened off campus. I wouldn't even bother contesting it. I would rip it right in front of the officer and throw it in the nearest wastebasket.

Actually, I wouldn't entertain a conversation with the officer about it at all.

Hazzelhoff

tell that cop that he has no right stealing your precious learning time to acuse you of shit that he has no right to. and then tell him you'll do it again just out of spite

Drez

Hazzelhoff wrote:

tell that cop that he has no right stealing your precious learning time to acuse you of shit that he has no right to. and then tell him you'll do it again just out of spite

It's never a good idea to antagonize someone just for the sake of antagonizing him, but the first half of your statement is decent advice.

leftright: Tell the officer that this kind of situation is not in his jurisdiction, is none of his business, and that if you are interrupted from your education to satisfy his whims again, you will take it up with his superiors and the dean.

Are you on a college campus or is this in a high school?

bone daddy

What you may get, depending on where you are, is some notice saying that somebody saw you doing _______, _________ is illegal and can carry _______ penalty, please do not do _________ again. This bears no legal weight, doesn't go on your record, and is basically just a reminder that hey, yeah, you need to stop at stop signs. Florida might still even have an 800 number for crotchety old people who have an applicable license plate number handy to yell at a machine about whippersnappers and their driving.

Otherwise, it's almost assuredly bullshit, though. Civilians do not have the authority, training, or legal knowledge to be a substitute-cop in penny-ante situations like this. If a cop didn't see it and it wasn't caught on film, they have no business issuing a citation for a simple moving violation.

leftright

im in highschool, and it's a "school resource office" which i guess is fancy for "failed cop"

the only reason I'm worried is if I get a ticket my dad will not let me drive, at all, and that can't happen. I've already talked to him about this situation though. Tommorow I find out if she wants the town to give me a ticket, the SRO said "it's up to her" and that's what set off my bullshit detector. The only reason the back of my car slid was because of the ridiuculous amount of black ice on the road not because I "ran" the stop sign. Anyway what should I say tommorow if the SRO "I've decided to give you a ticket" or something like that?

Sentry

leftright wrote:

im in highschool, and it's a "school resource office" which i guess is fancy for "failed cop"

the only reason I'm worried is if I get a ticket my dad will not let me drive, at all, and that can't happen. I've already talked to him about this situation though. Tommorow I find out if she wants the town to give me a ticket, the SRO said "it's up to her" and that's what set off my bullshit detector. The only reason the back of my car slid was because of the ridiuculous amount of black ice on the road not because I "ran" the stop sign. Anyway what should I say tommorow if the SRO "I've decided to give you a ticket" or something like that?

Trust me, you aren't going to get a ticket. That strikes me as being completely illegal. My guess is, they just wanted to scare you. But legally, there is nothing they can do. If they gave tickets everytime someone said, hey give that guy a ticket, this country would be freaking anarchy...

SkyGheNe

Drez wrote:

Thanatos wrote:

Drez wrote:

A cop can only issue a ticket if he witnesses the traffic violation. End.

Also, I can't say this enough - nobody of authority in a school knows anything about anything except academics (if even that), including the school "officer."

I'm guessing by "school officer" he means the on-campus police officer, who would be in a position to know these things, but would get his jollies by pushing around teenagers, even moreso than other cops.

From experience, campus officers - high school and college - have absolutely no authority or jurisdiction except on campus. Unless the OP goes up to him/her and says "yeah, and then I backed over the fat bitch and killed her when she got out of her car to yell at me" the school officer can't do anything.

He/she certainly can't issue a ticket for a crime that he didn't even witness and supposedly happened off campus. I wouldn't even bother contesting it. I would rip it right in front of the officer and throw it in the nearest wastebasket.

Actually, I wouldn't entertain a conversation with the officer about it at all.

It depends on the school.

At UCONN, our campus police force has authority over the town, even though the town has its own police force.

Our campus cops are also retired state troopers :O

Pheezer

You would think that it won't go anywhere because it's a civvie and no police were present but let me tell you, it happened to me. And I took it to court. And the judge decided that since I was 18, I was not trustworthy and upheld the ticket. I am not shitting you.

Deny any knowledge of the events to your grave. It's your safest bet.

Pheezer

Sentry wrote:

leftright wrote:

im in highschool, and it's a "school resource office" which i guess is fancy for "failed cop"

the only reason I'm worried is if I get a ticket my dad will not let me drive, at all, and that can't happen. I've already talked to him about this situation though. Tommorow I find out if she wants the town to give me a ticket, the SRO said "it's up to her" and that's what set off my bullshit detector. The only reason the back of my car slid was because of the ridiuculous amount of black ice on the road not because I "ran" the stop sign. Anyway what should I say tommorow if the SRO "I've decided to give you a ticket" or something like that?

Trust me, you aren't going to get a ticket. That strikes me as being completely illegal.

Okay, you don't know what you're fucking talking about. You're making statements about what is and isn't legal. That statement doesn't even make sense in the context.

You simply are not contributing in a helpful manner. You can say "I wouldn't think you could get ticketed for that" and that's fine. There's a good chance that even then, you'd be wrong. Don't make promises that are not up to you to keep.

bone daddy

Yes, but you're in Canada. If people were allowed to act as cops here, we'd have posses roaming the streets in states other than Texas and the continent would soon disappear under a cloud of smoke and ash.

Unless the OP's in Canada, in which case the statesider posts have way less applicability and he should call the police station's non-emergency line and get an answer from somebody who didn't get exiled to the high school beat.

Pheezer

bone daddy wrote:

Yes, but you're in Canada. If people were allowed to act as cops here, we'd have posses roaming the streets in states other than Texas and the continent would soon disappear under a cloud of smoke and ash.

I'm pretty sure the cops can still issue you a ticket if they're convinced you did something, even if they weren't there. Tickets have very different standards for proving guilt than real offences, and I'm very sure that's a true statement in the US as well.

Maybe I'm wrong and you'd just get a scary warning letter. Who knows. But I wouldn't discount the possibility outright and I'd be very careful about what I admitted to. No sense helping convince the cops that the woman was telling the truth.

Drez

SkyGheNe wrote:

Drez wrote:

Thanatos wrote:

Drez wrote:

A cop can only issue a ticket if he witnesses the traffic violation. End.

Also, I can't say this enough - nobody of authority in a school knows anything about anything except academics (if even that), including the school "officer."

I'm guessing by "school officer" he means the on-campus police officer, who would be in a position to know these things, but would get his jollies by pushing around teenagers, even moreso than other cops.

From experience, campus officers - high school and college - have absolutely no authority or jurisdiction except on campus. Unless the OP goes up to him/her and says "yeah, and then I backed over the fat bitch and killed her when she got out of her car to yell at me" the school officer can't do anything.

He/she certainly can't issue a ticket for a crime that he didn't even witness and supposedly happened off campus. I wouldn't even bother contesting it. I would rip it right in front of the officer and throw it in the nearest wastebasket.

Actually, I wouldn't entertain a conversation with the officer about it at all.

It depends on the school.

At UCONN, our campus police force has authority over the town, even though the town has its own police force.

Our campus cops are also retired state troopers :O

Point taken. Still, in the US, the police cannot issue a ticket if they did not perceive the crime. In fact, in the case of a traffic violation, police are not even legally allowed to pursue if/once they lose visual sight of their target (obviously not the same for a mass manhunt).

Pheezer: Man, not for nothing, but that's some crazy shit. I don't think Sentry's post is off-base at all...US law enforcement simply doesn't work that way. I think we all just assumed the OP is in the US. If he's in Canada, then you have a point, but those of us in the US pretty much know that if he gets a ticket it won't be upheld by a court. I'm not going to say "I think so" because I pretty much know for a fact than unless he goes to court and takes a shit on the judge's face, the ticket, if the school officer actually tries to issue one, will be dismissed.

I have family and friends on the force. You can't issue a ticket unless the violation was witnessed by a police officer and the ticket was issued to the person (for traffic violations) or the vehicle (for parking violations) at the time of the infraction.

The only exception to this that I know of are intersection cameras that mail tickets to people running red lights. Those are issued via mail well after the violation, to whomever the vehicle is registered to.

Otherwise, it's a no go. You cannot issue a ticket on hearsay, period.

Drez

pheezer FD wrote:

bone daddy wrote:

Yes, but you're in Canada. If people were allowed to act as cops here, we'd have posses roaming the streets in states other than Texas and the continent would soon disappear under a cloud of smoke and ash.

I'm pretty sure the cops can still issue you a ticket if they're convinced you did something, even if they weren't there. Tickets have very different standards for proving guilt than real offences, and I'm very sure that's a true statement in the US as well.

Maybe I'm wrong and you'd just get a scary warning letter. Who knows. But I wouldn't discount the possibility outright and I'd be very careful about what I admitted to. No sense helping convince the cops that the woman was telling the truth.

Not admitting something is good advice, but other than that you are wrong as far as US ticketing law is concerned. It sucks that Canadian officers are allowed to do that, though, and have the tickets upheld in court. That's rather appalling.

bone daddy

pheezer FD wrote:

bone daddy wrote:

Yes, but you're in Canada. If people were allowed to act as cops here, we'd have posses roaming the streets in states other than Texas and the continent would soon disappear under a cloud of smoke and ash.

I'm pretty sure the cops can still issue you a ticket if they're convinced you did something, even if they weren't there. Tickets have very different standards for proving guilt than real offences, and I'm very sure that's a true statement in the US as well.

Maybe I'm wrong and you'd just get a scary warning letter. Who knows. But I wouldn't discount the possibility outright and I'd be very careful about what I admitted to. No sense helping convince the cops that the woman was telling the truth.

Pretty much everyone I've known who's fought a traffic ticket and pled not guilty has wound up in front of a judge saying "No, your honor, I was not doing this." Then the cop, if he shows up, gets up and says "No, your honor, he was doing this." Then the judge says "LOL COP" and believes him unless there's a really compelling reason not to. It's much, much harder for the judge to say that there's a good reason for upholding a ticket issued if the officer in question didn't actually see anything and wrote the ticket based on a civilian witness's account.

The biggest thing that's sticking out for me, here, is the officer saying that they have to issue the ticket if she complains, seeing as they don't have to do shit. The officer on the scene wouldn't be compelled to write the ticket even if he witnessed it personally; they let drivers off with warnings (verbal or written) quite frequently.

iTunesIsEvil

I've found 3 sites (one for Washington state, one for Indiana, and one for Nevada) so far that say that in a case like this an officer would have to witness you commit the infraction. There are of course exceptions, like if you ran a traffic light and one of those cameras caught you, but in this case some random woman's bitching should not get you a ticket.

leftright

what do i say to the SRO if says he/the town is going to give me a ticket?

Drez

leftright wrote:

what do i say to the SRO if says he/the town is going to give me a ticket?

Don't even converse with him whatsoever on the matter. If you are forced into a face-to-face confrontation, simply ask him if you are free to go - do not admit to anything and only accept something as a last resort. Do not respond to "we're going to give you a ticket" with any answer or comment whatsoever, because there is nothing you can say to that that will help you.

If he does have the audacity to present you with a physical object - such as a written ticket - accept it and leave without responding, and then go contest it in court. Because it's bullshit.

leftright

basically today, and tommorow i assume he'll do the same thing is he calls me out of class, i went down and he the vice principle and the parking manage/security guy/ useless guy were there and then he'll talk to me i guess. Today he asked me if anything unusual happened today and i said no becausei don't consider slipping a little on the black ice that noteable.

I'm sticking with my story, mostly because it happens to be true, if he gives me the ticket there ill just take it and leave?

Drez

That's my suggestion. Say "thank you," curtsy, leave, and then go investigate the legality of the ticket.

Joseph Stalin

Drez wrote:

Thanatos wrote:

Drez wrote:

A cop can only issue a ticket if he witnesses the traffic violation. End.

Also, I can't say this enough - nobody of authority in a school knows anything about anything except academics (if even that), including the school "officer."

I'm guessing by "school officer" he means the on-campus police officer, who would be in a position to know these things, but would get his jollies by pushing around teenagers, even moreso than other cops.

From experience, campus officers - high school and college - have absolutely no authority or jurisdiction except on campus. Unless the OP goes up to him/her and says "yeah, and then I backed over the fat bitch and killed her when she got out of her car to yell at me" the school officer can't do anything.

He/she certainly can't issue a ticket for a crime that he didn't even witness and supposedly happened off campus. I wouldn't even bother contesting it. I would rip it right in front of the officer and throw it in the nearest wastebasket.

Actually, I wouldn't entertain a conversation with the officer about it at all.

Hey look, this could quite easily be completely wrong. Not only that, but a lot of your advice in this thread would be very, very bad if he was an official police officer. At my high school all of the on-campus officers were part of the city police department. I honestly have no idea at my university, but some university's police certainly are real officers. UCLA anyone?

Point being, tell him you weren't doing anything wrong, but don't be a prick and insult or piss him off.

Drez

Joseph Stalin wrote:

Drez wrote:

Thanatos wrote:

Drez wrote:

A cop can only issue a ticket if he witnesses the traffic violation. End.

Also, I can't say this enough - nobody of authority in a school knows anything about anything except academics (if even that), including the school "officer."

I'm guessing by "school officer" he means the on-campus police officer, who would be in a position to know these things, but would get his jollies by pushing around teenagers, even moreso than other cops.

From experience, campus officers - high school and college - have absolutely no authority or jurisdiction except on campus. Unless the OP goes up to him/her and says "yeah, and then I backed over the fat bitch and killed her when she got out of her car to yell at me" the school officer can't do anything.

He/she certainly can't issue a ticket for a crime that he didn't even witness and supposedly happened off campus. I wouldn't even bother contesting it. I would rip it right in front of the officer and throw it in the nearest wastebasket.

Actually, I wouldn't entertain a conversation with the officer about it at all.

Hey look, this could quite easily be completely wrong. Not only that, but a lot of your advice in this thread would be very, very bad if he was an official police officer. At my high school all of the on-campus officers were part of the city police department. I honestly have no idea at my university, but some university's police certainly are real officers. UCLA anyone?

Point being, tell him you weren't doing anything wrong, but don't be a prick and insult or piss him off.

As I stated multiple times - along with others in the thread - my advice is entirely accurate whether the "school officer" was either a campus meter maid or the police chief for his particular state.

An officer must be present to issue a ticket. All available information and research I've looked at (just to be sure) backs me up on this. That's how tickets work in the US. So, my advice is actually very, very correct regardless of whether this particular officer is a a man with a plastic sheriff badge and a dead mouse, a university cop, or a high-ranking official police officer for the town/city/state/country. This is how US law enforcement works: officer present and witnesses violation - ticket issued. No officer present - no ticket, except in the aforementioned scenario with cameras catching vehicles running red lights.

Also, I have to strenuously disagree with this advice. Don't tell him you weren't doing anything wrong. Don't entertain the threat at all. You can refuse to respond to the threat of being issued a ticket without being rude, and that's exactly what you should do. If you are offered a ticket anyway, just take it and argue it to a judge or whatever later.

Drez

The only possible thing I could come up with, to potentially negate my own advice, is that the OP's town has some weird system of trying to deal with complaints lodged by civilians, and these are simply referred to as "tickets" as well. I mean, there are all kinds of "tickets" out there. If the OP is issued anything, which may happen - I dunno, I don't think it would be anything near what a "real" ticket would be, which usually involves points on one's license - most moving violations incur points - in addition to a fine.

If he's presented with an official police moving violations ticket, I maintain that it is complete bunk as an officer would have to witness the violation. But his town may have some weird-ass shit system and they may refer to those penalties or complaints as "tickets" as well.

*shrug*

clsCorwin

While this is tailed to CA traffic law, it does have some valuable info which may be relevant for you.

www.ticketassassin.com

leftright

today was friday (obviously) and I didn't get called down, this means i wait till monday or she's deciding not to got through with it

Grimm

I would just explain that you did nothing wrong and in either case, they have no authority to issue you a ticket. If the school officer is just a security guard and not a real police officer and they insisted on giving the ticket, i would call the local police and discuss it with them. If the person is a police officer, take it to court.