The Smoke Jaguars are suppoused to be the most brutal of the invading clans, but thats pretty subjective considering that they invaded (to save the inner sphere).
How's THAT work?
Obviously giving birth will doom the human race and the Clans wanted to save the IS from that. :P
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
The Smoke Jaguars are suppoused to be the most brutal of the invading clans, but thats pretty subjective considering that they invaded (to save the inner sphere).
How's THAT work?
iirc, the majority of the smoke jaguar crackdowns (and most of the clan repression) is the result of basically terrorisim on the part of inner sphere citizens after the clans have taken the planet. When you're civilization is run by a chivalric military aristocracy you don't usually have the best PR skills on the whole.
Anyway, all of the clans invaded the Inner Sphere to save it from itself. Basically, take it over, stop what they see as the horrible political/living situation, and get things back to the way they should be. Basically, they see themselves exporting freedom and a better life to the inner sphere (draw your own smug parallell to that if you want, I know I have).
It's all a matter of perspective, really. The wolves are just as bad as the jags or the falcons or anyone else, but because there's no protagonists in any of the fiction or games on their side...
I played Mercenaries first, then the original. So whose really the badguys? Inner Sphere or the Clans? Smoke Jaguar are the biggest assholes if I recall.
There aren't really any good guys or bad guys, really, which makes everything so much more interesting.
The Federated Suns are usually the closest thing to the "good guys" that the universe has (relativley democratic, not horribly repressive) but even then they're still expansionist assholes sometimes.
The Smoke Jaguars are suppoused to be the most brutal of the invading clans, but thats pretty subjective considering that they invaded (to save the inner sphere).
In the old Battletech books the Capellans and Draconis Combine are usually cast in a pretty bad light, they're rife with a weird "tricky oriental despot" kinda subtext when dealing with those two, as opposed to the good and noble white folks who populate the Federated Suns and Lyran Commonwealth. (The "no good" ethnic white folks are in Free Worlds League - they ally with the Capellans). The Draconis Combine gets off better because they're the Japanese "noble samurai" as opposed the the "tricky" Chinese that the Capellans are theoretically descended from.
In conclusion: kill whitey
I felt the DC were portrayed as the bad guys in the first book I picked up, the 3025 Technical Readout. From what I remember, the Kuritans were the only ones who were described as:
1. Purposely slaughtering civilians, and targeting hospitals and other hard-to-evacuate areas.
2. Attacking civilian centers suspected of harboring enemy sympathizers.
3. Poisoning water supplies
4. Forcing enemy civilians to watch propaganda rallies
The Smoke Jaguars are suppoused to be the most brutal of the invading clans, but thats pretty subjective considering that they invaded (to save the inner sphere).
How's THAT work?
iirc, the majority of the smoke jaguar crackdowns (and most of the clan repression) is the result of basically terrorisim on the part of inner sphere citizens after the clans have taken the planet. When you're civilization is run by a chivalric military aristocracy you don't usually have the best PR skills on the whole.
Anyway, all of the clans invaded the Inner Sphere to save it from itself. Basically, take it over, stop what they see as the horrible political/living situation, and get things back to the way they should be. Basically, they see themselves exporting freedom and a better life to the inner sphere (draw your own smug parallell to that if you want, I know I have).
It's all a matter of perspective, really. The wolves are just as bad as the jags or the falcons or anyone else, but because there's no protagonists in any of the fiction or games on their side...
It doesn't help that the Clans, even before arriving in the IS, demonstrate they are capable of just as much, if not more, racism as the powers of the IS. Hilariously enough, a lot of it comes down to things as simple as "You came from a vagina?! HERETIC! You're lucky enough to scrub toilets for the rest of your life!", in addition to the usual racism.
Of course, a great many complaints about the terrorism committed by the Clan occupation, as leveled by the IS, are the same as those brought up during the Succession Wars (and of which pretty much every House is responsible for committing against themselves in others). Really, the (Crusader) Clans are hurt most by the fact that they come off as such tremendous douchebags that the douchbag houses of the Inner Sphere are willing to put their hatred of one-another aside briefly to fight them back. It doesn't help that screaming "Stand aside, freeborn scum!", "Puny insignificant Inner Sphere insect" and "I hate vaginas!" over and over again makes it really hard for others to appreciate your point of view, no matter how valid it might be ultimately.
It's a problem of portrayal. Star Wars, which shares some of the same writers, has the same problem too, to my knowledge. Plus, most people find it hard to get sexually excited about a feudal-like caste system that forces people into very clearly defined roles in society through no fault of their own (then again, the IS has this same problem too...they just don't seem to celebrate it so much).
I played Mercenaries first, then the original. So whose really the badguys? Inner Sphere or the Clans? Smoke Jaguar are the biggest assholes if I recall.
There aren't really any good guys or bad guys, really, which makes everything so much more interesting.
The Federated Suns are usually the closest thing to the "good guys" that the universe has (relativley democratic, not horribly repressive) but even then they're still expansionist assholes sometimes.
The Smoke Jaguars are suppoused to be the most brutal of the invading clans, but thats pretty subjective considering that they invaded (to save the inner sphere).
In the old Battletech books the Capellans and Draconis Combine are usually cast in a pretty bad light, they're rife with a weird "tricky oriental despot" kinda subtext when dealing with those two, as opposed to the good and noble white folks who populate the Federated Suns and Lyran Commonwealth. (The "no good" ethnic white folks are in Free Worlds League - they ally with the Capellans). The Draconis Combine gets off better because they're the Japanese "noble samurai" as opposed the the "tricky" Chinese that the Capellans are theoretically descended from.
In conclusion: kill whitey
This pretty much sums it up. Many of the books (if not all of them) dealing with the IS are written with a sense of *gong sound* Yellow menace!. The constant re-use of the Capellans as a Ming the Merciless (of Flash Gordon) evil mustache-twirling menace is really well established. Hell, there's going to be the antagonists in this game too, apparently. Even I don't like them.
You know, I don't think this is actually true. At least, not once you get to the actual novels. The older source books may be a different story, I don't know.
The Warrior trilogy has a definite "racism is bad" subtext and the fact that there are good (Justin, Candence, Hanse, Melissa, etc) and evil (Romana, Lestrade, etc) characters of all races makes things pretty balanced.
Besides which each Succesor State spans dozens if not hundreds of inhabited planets so suggesting that they are somehow racially homogeneous is kind of silly.
But there is a definite cultural and political divide. The Cappellan Confederation is all good of the many and crushing individuality and basically they're the Hive fromSid Meier's Alpha Centauri. Who were also asian actually. So... blame communist China and/or Confucius?
The Draconis Combine on the other hand has that whole bushido thing and is basically space feudal Japan with all the terrible things that involves.
The Lyran Commonwealth, Federated Suns, and Free Worlds League are all also feudal states, obviously. But they seem to at least be aware of post-Enlightenment values which leaves them as the relative good guys.
So what's going on more than anything is a sense of cultural supremacy... but personally I happen to think post-Enlightenment values are better than the alternatives so it's entirely justified.
HamHamJ on
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
Well, it's nice to know that a lot of the stuff I missed isn't as hilariously cliched.
Really, Ham, I can appreciate that they do intend to mix things up, but the fact remains a lot of the core material--hell, the stated core principles of the IS houses themselves--have pretty obvious undertones. I suppose the good novels work to overcome that though.
Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
edited July 2009
The Clans aren't exactly one big homogeneous group either.
You have Star Adder where the whole "came from a vagina" and "not part of the warrior caste" things aren't much of an issue.
Or Diamond Shark, which is basically run by the merchants.
Then you have the Smoke Jaguar who are even more extreme in their warrior caste worship than everyone else, and are rather brutal to anyone who isn't part of that caste.
and Fire Mandrill, who barely count as a single clan to begin with.
And also Launch Octopus, who is weak to the Rolling Shield attack.
You know, I don't think this is actually true. At least, not once you get to the actual novels. The older source books may be a different story, I don't know.
The Warrior trilogy has a definite "racism is bad" subtext and the fact that there are good (Justin, Candence, Hanse, Melissa, etc) and evil (Romana, Lestrade, etc) characters of all races makes things pretty balanced.
Besides which each Succesor State spans dozens if not hundreds of inhabited planets so suggesting that they are somehow racially homogeneous is kind of silly.
But there is a definite cultural and political divide. The Cappellan Confederation is all good of the many and crushing individuality and basically they're the Hive fromSid Meier's Alpha Centauri. Who were also asian actually. So... blame communist China and/or Confucius?
The Draconis Combine on the other hand has that whole bushido thing and is basically space feudal Japan with all the terrible things that involves.
The Lyran Commonwealth, Federated Suns, and Free Worlds League are all also feudal states, obviously. But they seem to at least be aware of post-Enlightenment values which leaves them as the relative good guys.
So what's going on more than anything is a sense of cultural supremacy... but personally I happen to think post-Enlightenment values are better than the alternatives so it's entirely justified.
You know, I don't think this is actually true. At least, not once you get to the actual novels. The older source books may be a different story, I don't know.
The Warrior trilogy has a definite "racism is bad" subtext and the fact that there are good (Justin, Candence, Hanse, Melissa, etc) and evil (Romana, Lestrade, etc) characters of all races makes things pretty balanced.
Besides which each Succesor State spans dozens if not hundreds of inhabited planets so suggesting that they are somehow racially homogeneous is kind of silly.
But there is a definite cultural and political divide. The Cappellan Confederation is all good of the many and crushing individuality and basically they're the Hive fromSid Meier's Alpha Centauri. Who were also asian actually. So... blame communist China and/or Confucius?
The Draconis Combine on the other hand has that whole bushido thing and is basically space feudal Japan with all the terrible things that involves.
The Lyran Commonwealth, Federated Suns, and Free Worlds League are all also feudal states, obviously. But they seem to at least be aware of post-Enlightenment values which leaves them as the relative good guys.
So what's going on more than anything is a sense of cultural supremacy... but personally I happen to think post-Enlightenment values are better than the alternatives so it's entirely justified.
Edit: double post, very possibly perfidious mustache twirling sun tsu liao is responsible, please check chaos march
And then you have the Nova Cats, who during Operation Bulldog, said, "Okay, a vision said we should surrender to the IS. Care to bring us over wholesale?" And then the two Nova Cat Khans participated in the Trial of Refusal on Strana Mechty because their vision told them the Ice Hellions would beat any force the IS sent against them.
And then you have the Nova Cats, who during Operation Bulldog, said, "Okay, a vision said we should surrender to the IS. Care to bring us over wholesale?" And then the two Nova Cat Khans participated in the Trial of Refusal on Strana Mechty because their vision told them the Ice Hellions would beat any force the IS sent against them.
I am impressed by the Nova Cats simply because they surprise the hell out of everyone with this action (at least, that's how I remember them).
Everyone else who is dealing with them is left going ".....wait, what? What just happened?" The Jags never really surprise anyone that way.
Of all the Clans, the Smoke Jaguars were the least interesting. Trent was the only interesting Smoke Jaguar character, mostly because he was just so completely disenfranchised with his own clan and their ways. Not so with the Jade Falcons (Joanna, Aidan Pryde, Horse) or the Wolves (Natasha Kerensky, Ulric Kerensky, shit, even Vlad Ward).
Of all the Clans, the Smoke Jaguars were the least interesting. Trent was the only interesting Smoke Jaguar character, mostly because he was just so completely disenfranchised with his own clan and their ways. Not so with the Jade Falcons (Joanna, Aidan Pryde, Horse) or the Wolves (Natasha Kerensky, Ulric Kerensky, shit, even Vlad Ward).
More or less. The Jags always struck me as the most consistently dangerous warriors, yes, but also the most consistently unvaried. They're sort of the 'perfect Clan' in that regard--no real dissent, no variation, all just the same damn warrior going about kicking IS butt before being hunted down and destroyed. I'm not familiar with Trent though.
I'm a Clan Wolf kind-of-guy, mostly because 1) I'm soft on Wardens 2) I love me some Dragoons and 3) In the few portrayals I've seen of them, they don't seem so "OMG Vagina!" crazy. I mean, they still have that caste system, of course (to my knowledge), but at least they don't get their rocks off on it, or they don't reveal it so blatantly if they do.
The Jade Falcons and Nova Cats are nice and unpredictable, though the Falcons do have the unfortunate position of being the token losers both to other clans and IS in a lot of stuff.
The Smoke Jaguars are suppoused to be the most brutal of the invading clans, but thats pretty subjective considering that they invaded (to save the inner sphere).
How's THAT work?
Look at these foolish barbarians, they've spent the last 300 years blowing themselves back to the 20th century, we must go in and RESTORE ORDER for PEACE AND JUSTICE. (and our birthright)
It really depends on who you ask, the Crusader Clans (Our destiny is to conquer the IS and rule it to restore order) or the Warden Clans (Our destiny is to work with the IS to restore order). Though at the start, they both kind of agreed that the current military powers needed to be curbstomped, for reasons I can't remember.
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
0
IceBurnerIt's cold and there are penguins.Registered Userregular
edited July 2009
Where in heck did my post go?
MW4 Mercs, installs & patches fine to PR1 plus the mechpacks, all installed exactly according to the last topic. Crashes the very instant it's started. No specific error, just the "has encountered a problem and needs to close" generic tripe. XP SP2, latest DX & video drivers on a Core 2 Duo E8400 w/ GeForce 8800 GT, 3.5GB RAM.
I've tried MW4 unpatched, patched to PR1, and patched fully up to MP3.02b w/hi-def pack. Always the same.
Any idea what in hell is wrong, and those of you who have it working, what is your config?
IceBurner, what I suggest doing is checking the install "integrity" at every point during the installs. By that I mean between each EXE you run to patch, run the game and see if it still works. That should help you narrow down which of them is the culprit. If even the base game won't start, install PR1 to see if PR1 possibly fixes that problem. If it doesn't start with PR1, you've got a compatibility issue between your current hardware + OS setup and the game. Check drivers, directX version, resolution and other video settings, and so forth. If you can get PR1 to work fine, but after a MekPack install it crashes, then you may have corrupt MekPack downloads, or the patching may have been interrupted or compromised somehow.
Another good idea during this troubleshooting process is to make a copy of all the Mercs game folders and files in a separate location, so that if the mekpack install screws up your mercs install, you can just copy that backup over, instead of having to uninstall/reinstall everything.
I know these are sorta generic suggestions, but since I don't know exactly what the problem is, that's all I can recommend.
Kasanagi on
0
NocrenLt Futz, Back in ActionNorth CarolinaRegistered Userregular
(1) Install Mercenaries
(2) Patch to PR1
(3) Run MekPak 3.02a
(4) Run MekPak Patch 3.02b
(5) Patch with High Definition Patch
To play online be sure to run the "mekmatch" registry file that is located in your Mechwarrior Mercs install directory.
edit- The mods do a number of things, one of which is add about 30-40 new mechs, tons of new weapons, new camo options, some what better AI, and interface changes.
edit 2: In fact the MetTek team is still working on mods for MW4:Mercs. They are curretnly working on MP4 which adds a number of things including free reticle targeting. So you do not have to move your entire torso to target something.
edit 3: Hey look a video showing off the new mechs and such. MekTek
Once it is installed, go into the variants folder and back it up somewhere. It is possible to delete the variants of the mechs the mekpacks add, right out of the list entirely.
e:
Thanks for quoting that basil, was actually just wondering what the highdef pack was, since I didn't see mention of it on the site.
Morkath on
0
INeedNoSaltwith blood on my teethRegistered Userregular
edited July 2009
Hey, BattleTech nerds, I need some help, and this seems like a good place to go slightly off-topic and ask.
If I want to play some MegaMek stuff with a friend who lives in another country (so no tabletop), which books do I need + which books does MegaMek support? (I really haven't even got the slightest idea where to start.)
If you just want to throw mechs at each other, you don't need any of the books. It handles all the dice rolls/stats itself.
Morkath on
0
INeedNoSaltwith blood on my teethRegistered Userregular
edited July 2009
I think I'd still like to know the rules so I know what I'm doing. I don't mind picking up a book or two... I know the local gaming store has just piles and piles of old BattleTech stuff.
(But, since it's piles and piles, I don't even know where to look.)
Posts
Obviously giving birth will doom the human race and the Clans wanted to save the IS from that. :P
iirc, the majority of the smoke jaguar crackdowns (and most of the clan repression) is the result of basically terrorisim on the part of inner sphere citizens after the clans have taken the planet. When you're civilization is run by a chivalric military aristocracy you don't usually have the best PR skills on the whole.
Anyway, all of the clans invaded the Inner Sphere to save it from itself. Basically, take it over, stop what they see as the horrible political/living situation, and get things back to the way they should be. Basically, they see themselves exporting freedom and a better life to the inner sphere (draw your own smug parallell to that if you want, I know I have).
It's all a matter of perspective, really. The wolves are just as bad as the jags or the falcons or anyone else, but because there's no protagonists in any of the fiction or games on their side...
goddamn i think about this too much
I felt the DC were portrayed as the bad guys in the first book I picked up, the 3025 Technical Readout. From what I remember, the Kuritans were the only ones who were described as:
1. Purposely slaughtering civilians, and targeting hospitals and other hard-to-evacuate areas.
2. Attacking civilian centers suspected of harboring enemy sympathizers.
3. Poisoning water supplies
4. Forcing enemy civilians to watch propaganda rallies
Eeeeevil.
It doesn't help that the Clans, even before arriving in the IS, demonstrate they are capable of just as much, if not more, racism as the powers of the IS. Hilariously enough, a lot of it comes down to things as simple as "You came from a vagina?! HERETIC! You're lucky enough to scrub toilets for the rest of your life!", in addition to the usual racism.
Of course, a great many complaints about the terrorism committed by the Clan occupation, as leveled by the IS, are the same as those brought up during the Succession Wars (and of which pretty much every House is responsible for committing against themselves in others). Really, the (Crusader) Clans are hurt most by the fact that they come off as such tremendous douchebags that the douchbag houses of the Inner Sphere are willing to put their hatred of one-another aside briefly to fight them back. It doesn't help that screaming "Stand aside, freeborn scum!", "Puny insignificant Inner Sphere insect" and "I hate vaginas!" over and over again makes it really hard for others to appreciate your point of view, no matter how valid it might be ultimately.
It's a problem of portrayal. Star Wars, which shares some of the same writers, has the same problem too, to my knowledge. Plus, most people find it hard to get sexually excited about a feudal-like caste system that forces people into very clearly defined roles in society through no fault of their own (then again, the IS has this same problem too...they just don't seem to celebrate it so much).
"MechWarrior 5 (PC/360) - Crusading Against Vaginas"
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Which would be fun.
You know, I don't think this is actually true. At least, not once you get to the actual novels. The older source books may be a different story, I don't know.
The Warrior trilogy has a definite "racism is bad" subtext and the fact that there are good (Justin, Candence, Hanse, Melissa, etc) and evil (Romana, Lestrade, etc) characters of all races makes things pretty balanced.
Besides which each Succesor State spans dozens if not hundreds of inhabited planets so suggesting that they are somehow racially homogeneous is kind of silly.
But there is a definite cultural and political divide. The Cappellan Confederation is all good of the many and crushing individuality and basically they're the Hive fromSid Meier's Alpha Centauri. Who were also asian actually. So... blame communist China and/or Confucius?
The Draconis Combine on the other hand has that whole bushido thing and is basically space feudal Japan with all the terrible things that involves.
The Lyran Commonwealth, Federated Suns, and Free Worlds League are all also feudal states, obviously. But they seem to at least be aware of post-Enlightenment values which leaves them as the relative good guys.
So what's going on more than anything is a sense of cultural supremacy... but personally I happen to think post-Enlightenment values are better than the alternatives so it's entirely justified.
Really, Ham, I can appreciate that they do intend to mix things up, but the fact remains a lot of the core material--hell, the stated core principles of the IS houses themselves--have pretty obvious undertones. I suppose the good novels work to overcome that though.
Giant Fighting Robots > Vaginas
seriouspost: which mech is the best in bed
This isn't a serious post at all, the answer is plain as day
The Cougar :winky:
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
You have Star Adder where the whole "came from a vagina" and "not part of the warrior caste" things aren't much of an issue.
Or Diamond Shark, which is basically run by the merchants.
Then you have the Smoke Jaguar who are even more extreme in their warrior caste worship than everyone else, and are rather brutal to anyone who isn't part of that caste.
and Fire Mandrill, who barely count as a single clan to begin with.
And also Launch Octopus, who is weak to the Rolling Shield attack.
You, sir, are a rapscallion.
Justin Allard is the uncle tom of the future
Edit: double post, very possibly perfidious mustache twirling sun tsu liao is responsible, please check chaos march
I'm not sure whether to lime, sig or report for awesome much of the last page.
Well played, chaps.
XBL : lJesse Custerl | MWO: Jesse Custer | Best vid ever. | 2nd best vid ever.
I am impressed by the Nova Cats simply because they surprise the hell out of everyone with this action (at least, that's how I remember them).
Everyone else who is dealing with them is left going ".....wait, what? What just happened?" The Jags never really surprise anyone that way.
XBL : lJesse Custerl | MWO: Jesse Custer | Best vid ever. | 2nd best vid ever.
More or less. The Jags always struck me as the most consistently dangerous warriors, yes, but also the most consistently unvaried. They're sort of the 'perfect Clan' in that regard--no real dissent, no variation, all just the same damn warrior going about kicking IS butt before being hunted down and destroyed. I'm not familiar with Trent though.
I'm a Clan Wolf kind-of-guy, mostly because 1) I'm soft on Wardens 2) I love me some Dragoons and 3) In the few portrayals I've seen of them, they don't seem so "OMG Vagina!" crazy. I mean, they still have that caste system, of course (to my knowledge), but at least they don't get their rocks off on it, or they don't reveal it so blatantly if they do.
The Jade Falcons and Nova Cats are nice and unpredictable, though the Falcons do have the unfortunate position of being the token losers both to other clans and IS in a lot of stuff.
Same thing as the Iraqi invasion, you see.
Don't be ridiculous.
Of course it's the Bushwacker.
All too easy.
No.
MW4 Mercs, installs & patches fine to PR1 plus the mechpacks, all installed exactly according to the last topic. Crashes the very instant it's started. No specific error, just the "has encountered a problem and needs to close" generic tripe. XP SP2, latest DX & video drivers on a Core 2 Duo E8400 w/ GeForce 8800 GT, 3.5GB RAM.
I've tried MW4 unpatched, patched to PR1, and patched fully up to MP3.02b w/hi-def pack. Always the same.
Any idea what in hell is wrong, and those of you who have it working, what is your config?
PSN: theIceBurner, IceBurnerEU, IceBurner-JP | X-Link Kai: TheIceBurner
Dragon's Dogma: 192 Warrior Linty | 80 Strider Alicia | 32 Mage Terra
They don't work on x64.
EDIT: I see you don't have x64 OS.
Try setting compatibility to Win98 or something.
Another good idea during this troubleshooting process is to make a copy of all the Mercs game folders and files in a separate location, so that if the mekpack install screws up your mercs install, you can just copy that backup over, instead of having to uninstall/reinstall everything.
I know these are sorta generic suggestions, but since I don't know exactly what the problem is, that's all I can recommend.
And then, the idiot I was, it got knocked off my desk and broke at the "neck". I tried fixing it with resin/cement mix. Not strong enough.
I'm hoping my dad, who actually has a decent garage workshop, will have a very thin steel rod or some clamps that might be strong enough.
Then finally, I'll have a joystick again.
Once it is installed, go into the variants folder and back it up somewhere. It is possible to delete the variants of the mechs the mekpacks add, right out of the list entirely.
e:
Thanks for quoting that basil, was actually just wondering what the highdef pack was, since I didn't see mention of it on the site.
If I want to play some MegaMek stuff with a friend who lives in another country (so no tabletop), which books do I need + which books does MegaMek support? (I really haven't even got the slightest idea where to start.)
(But, since it's piles and piles, I don't even know where to look.)
http://www.classicbattletech.com/index.php?action=products&mode=full&id=198
and this for the optional tacop rules;
http://www.classicbattletech.com/index.php?action=products&mode=full&id=225