The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
Please vote in the Forum Structure Poll. Polling will close at 2PM EST on January 21, 2025.
You're a terrible person Ian.
You made me think that this was exceptionally bad news instead of just rather annoying news. I come here and see this link I'm thinking that it was cancelled.
Basically, because of a lot of legal mumbo-jumbo that I don't understand and am not all that interested in, not all of the Unseen will be returning. The ones that we won't be seeing: Archer, Longbow, Rifleman, Warhammer, Wasp, Stinger, Phoenix Hawk, Crusader, Marauder, Stinger LAM, Wasp LAM and Phoenix Hawk LAM.
It annoys me that I won't be seeing my beloved classic Marauder in-game anytime soon, but at least it looks like the game is still coming.
Has anyone else been unable to play Mechwarrior 3 in Vista since Nvidia's most recent graphics update? Nothing short of resorting to software rendering seems to work. Before, you just couldn't get FSAA...now, nothing.
Dude, I said that many times already. MW3 hardware mode does not work on modern GPUs. It's not the OS. Luckily I have a radeon 9600 on my wife's machin just for those games.
That's interesting and all, but it did work about two weeks ago. In order words, it did work on modern GPUs. And I'm pretty sure someone didn't swap out my video card while I wasn't looking, so that leads me to think it's an issue with the video drivers. Back when this thread was younger, it was working fine.
You're a terrible person Ian.
You made me think that this was exceptionally bad news instead of just rather annoying news. I come here and see this link I'm thinking that it was cancelled.
Basically, because of a lot of legal mumbo-jumbo that I don't understand and am not all that interested in, not all of the Unseen will be returning. The ones that we won't be seeing: Archer, Longbow, Rifleman, Warhammer, Wasp, Stinger, Phoenix Hawk, Crusader, Marauder, Stinger LAM, Wasp LAM and Phoenix Hawk LAM.
It annoys me that I won't be seeing my beloved classic Marauder in-game anytime soon, but at least it looks like the game is still coming.
I really wish they'd do something like clean the Reseen designs up a bit more and just stuck with them to put this whole issue to rest once and for all. Yeah it sucks to not have the classic-classic designs again but I think in the long run having something that's purely 100% Battletech is better for everybody.
The Ost mechs... oh and the Locust and ooh Shadow Hawk & Battlemaster.
Those last 3 matter, right?
Also, the Griffin, Scorpion, Goliath, Wolverine and Thunderbolt. It seems pretty clear that Harmony Gold is still holding onto the Robotech license, but that the others have been cleared.
Still, they've already got that Warhammer running around in their engine. Surely they're going to work out at least the secondary mecha like the Warhammer, Rifleman and Marauder, right? I could see the Veritechs/Valkyries being under contention, since they're the centerpiece of Robotech/Macross, but the other dudes barely get any screen time.
Has anyone else been unable to play Mechwarrior 3 in Vista since Nvidia's most recent graphics update? Nothing short of resorting to software rendering seems to work. Before, you just couldn't get FSAA...now, nothing.
Dude, I said that many times already. MW3 hardware mode does not work on modern GPUs. It's not the OS. Luckily I have a radeon 9600 on my wife's machin just for those games.
That's interesting and all, but it did work about two weeks ago. In order words, it did work on modern GPUs. And I'm pretty sure someone didn't swap out my video card while I wasn't looking, so that leads me to think it's an issue with the video drivers. Back when this thread was younger, it was working fine.
that would make sense only if you were using some ancient drivers from ages past.
or maybe nVidia.
RE: Unseen; I don't care, I just wanna stomp and pew again.
Has anyone else been unable to play Mechwarrior 3 in Vista since Nvidia's most recent graphics update? Nothing short of resorting to software rendering seems to work. Before, you just couldn't get FSAA...now, nothing.
Dude, I said that many times already. MW3 hardware mode does not work on modern GPUs. It's not the OS. Luckily I have a radeon 9600 on my wife's machin just for those games.
That's interesting and all, but it did work about two weeks ago. In order words, it did work on modern GPUs. And I'm pretty sure someone didn't swap out my video card while I wasn't looking, so that leads me to think it's an issue with the video drivers. Back when this thread was younger, it was working fine.
that would make sense only if you were using some ancient drivers from ages past.
or maybe nVidia.
RE: Unseen; I don't care, I just wanna stomp and pew again.
Yeah, that's what I'm worried about resorting to, since it'll effect all my games (though not necessarily negatively).
It's a damn shame that MW3 is so temperamental, while the MW2 games have had custom patches and MW4 is not.
If you've been updating your video drivers, however, I think you'll notice that it no longer works right with hardware rendeirng.
*evil laughter*
Though seriously, I'm fairly certain it's the most recent video drivers. Elliotw2, what patch were you using? 1.2 or something else from the MW3.org forums?
The super jump bug is both well documented (going back years) and has a few potential 'fixes'--including framerate syncing, which made it somewhat less likely, back around the time of ATi's 9800 to X1800 video cards.
I'm going to try installing it onto my laptop, which has a significantly lesser video card, also from Nvidia. Not an idea platform, but given that MW3 doesn't use TrackIR4, and my laptop has USB ports, it's better than nothing.
....though, seriously, MW3 with TrackIR4....that would be pretty badass. Except for the fact that you'd have to toggle it off if you didn't want to screw with the crosshair.
EDIT: Well, looks like it DOES run on my Vista 64-bit laptop. Didn't even have to update. Hah, funny that. I suspect it's because I haven't updated the video drivers in a while, however.
*angry first wave at Nvidia*
I guess I'll have to explore plugging in my laptop into my nicer monitor and whatnot. Running out of desk space as it is.
Synthesis on
0
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited September 2009
This thread wasn't a pain in the ass to find with our shitty search engine!
Anyway, I just found out about this, but apparently the co-copyright owner has filed a cease and desist order against IGN, and they've taken issue with the actual trailer itself too.
Edit - To save people the pain of going to IGN:
September 3, 2009 - Earlier today, IGN and its parent company were issued a cease and desist order from Harmony Gold, the co-copyright owner of the television series Robotech. The letter claims that the use of certain trademarked figures from the Robotech/Macross universe are prohibited as a result of a prior settlement that dates back to 1996. While MechWarrior isn't part of the Robotech/Macross universe, the similarities between vehicles has been enough to cause legal issues and raise questions. Apparently, some of those trademarked figures appear in the trailer used by Pirahna Games in its announcement of the MechWarrior reboot earlier this year, and a request has been made for that trailer to be pulled from IGN.
This development could put the future of MechWarrior in jeopardy. A trademark dispute could derail the game's development. On the flip side, it could also simply result in specific characters, logos, or other trademarked material from being included in the final product.
IGN contacted Smith and Tinker, the company that currently holds the license to the MechWarrior franchise for word on this situation. A spokesman for the company responded to our inquiry, stating, "We have no comment on the situation at this time." Smith and Tinker, along with Piranha Games, announced the reboot of the Mechwarrior franchise exclusively with IGN in July.
Edit Edit - Also I misread, these are the co-copyright owners of Robotech.
Dammit, this is why we can't have nice things. Hopefully this still means the game itself isn't affected, just that the Unseen mechs are, yes, still unseen, and that Harmony Gold is still dicks.
So either Mechwarrior Company used Robotech copyrights and are idiots and should be fired, or Mechwarrior Company didn't and Robotech should be sued out of existence. Someone who knows these mechs on sight want to tell me which I should recommend to God?
So either Mechwarrior Company used Robotech copyrights and are idiots and should be fired, or Mechwarrior Company didn't and Robotech should be sued out of existence. Someone who knows these mechs on sight want to tell me which I should recommend to God?
It would help if Harmony Gold would state which of their designs were copied and used again despite the previous issue. Then we can all decide easily if this is bullshit. There isn't much on Wiki about them. Gonna look at the Robotech one now.
Yeah, the whole copyright issue surrounding Macross stuff in the US is one giant clusterfuck. The reason they put the Warhammer in the trailer is because they thought it got cleared up and was ok to use, but there's a post on the previous page of this thread that mentions that "Whoops!" that's not the case. So presumably the Unseen mechs aren't actually in the game at this point. It just seems like Harmony Gold is sending out complaints now over it.
Dartboy on
0
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited September 2009
Wait a minute, the Warhammer is the mech that's in contention here? Goddamn it. That thing is like a staple in Mechwarrior!
So either Mechwarrior Company used Robotech copyrights and are idiots and should be fired, or Mechwarrior Company didn't and Robotech should be sued out of existence. Someone who knows these mechs on sight want to tell me which I should recommend to God?
It would help if Harmony Gold would state which of their designs were copied and used again despite the previous issue. Then we can all decide easily if this is bullshit. There isn't much on Wiki about them. Gonna look at the Robotech one now.
It's a lot of he says she says... HG claims worldwide rights on SDF Macross and it's derivatives. The 2002 ruling says Studio Nue has sole ownership of the Valkyrie design, but the 2003 ruling says Tatsunoko has rights to the first Macross series. HG got their worldwide rights from Tatsunoko, so in theory they only have rights to stuff from the first Macross series. I think one of the debating points is what exactly is included in "derivatives"... in the past HG have been dicks and blocked almost all Macross related merchandise in the US, even official release of stuff from Macross Plus, by calling all of that "derivatives".
If Smith and Tinker wanted to contest this (and they really should, for all that is good and holy), they should have their in-house lawyers look at who has ownership of the destroid design, and whether those rights extend to HG. If the rights go to Studio Nue, then they should be on better ground assuming they cleared everything with Studio Nue/Big West. If the design went to Tatsunoko... well...
Akilae on
0
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited September 2009
If there's no clear line of who owns the rights, I would hope the presiding judge would rule in favor of "Fuck you HG."
And that's kinda funny that they do this shit for merchandise that would benefit them by selling in the US. Are they assholes who think they're too good for our money? Fine, they don't have to get it!
So either Mechwarrior Company used Robotech copyrights and are idiots and should be fired, or Mechwarrior Company didn't and Robotech should be sued out of existence. Someone who knows these mechs on sight want to tell me which I should recommend to God?
It would help if Harmony Gold would state which of their designs were copied and used again despite the previous issue. Then we can all decide easily if this is bullshit. There isn't much on Wiki about them. Gonna look at the Robotech one now.
It kind of drives home how horrible BattleTech art is that people don't care about the hundreds and hundreds of designs they made themselves, but obsess over a handful that were copied from '70s anime.
It's hard to say Harmony Gold's just being dicks if the BattleTech guys haven't paid up for the license. And that could be tough, as in my experience more people have fond memories of the Robotech cartoon than have had anything to do with anything BattleTech or Mechwarrior.
If Smith and Tinker wanted to contest this (and they really should, for all that is good and holy), they should have their in-house lawyers look at who has ownership of the destroid design, and whether those rights extend to HG. If the rights go to Studio Nue, then they should be on better ground assuming they cleared everything with Studio Nue/Big West. If the design went to Tatsunoko... well...
Is there anything to suggest that anyone on the BT/MW side has cleared everything with Studio Nue/Big West? The original BattleTech license came from 20th Century Imports, which comes across as extremely sketchy. The new deal would hopefully be on firmer ground, but I haven't heard the details. I believe that it would have to have been more than just Studio Nue, though, as Dougram was a source of several Unseen designs (Battlemaster, Griffin, Shadowhawk, Thunderbolt, Wolverine, Goliath), and I don't think they had anything to do with Studio Nue.
Know what also? Fuck MechAssault screwing with the canon and introducing shit like shields, and the new DarkAge storyline novels. Seriously. Clans beating the tar out of the IS, then vice versa.
You know what they should do? Just buy Harmony Gold the fuck out. I mean really, how much can they be worth now anyway? Buy em out, lay them all the fuck off and write the company off as a tax claim. Then merge Robotech with Mechwarrior and have the SDF-1 land on Terra to defend Macross City from the invading Clans...
Wow, I just went way out there didn't I?
Error on
0
Foreverendercloaked in the midnight glory of an event horizonRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
You've started on the horrible path of fanfiction
Foreverender on
XBL - Foreverender | 3DS FC - 1418 6696 1012 | Steam ID | LoL
So is this new news different from the article in post 317, where the MW guys basically say "ooops, we thought we got the legal rights for the unseens ironed out, but we didn't and we're removing some of them"?
Spoit on
0
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited September 2009
If they officially declared, "Hey, we goofed and we're taking appropriate action," why is Harmony Gold coming up later going CEASE AND DESIST! ?
The answer lies in who got the cease and desist. IGN had exclusivity on the Mechwarrior teaser trailer, and they posted it. Smith and Tinker then says on their own that "oh, we didn't get the rights for the unseen mechs. Oops." but IGN still has the same trailer up with the revealed to be copyrighted content. Thus, IGN gets cease and desist from Harmony Gold.
Now, with that figured out, I still loathe and despise whoever is behind all this at Harmony Gold. Seriously, as convoluted as the ownership of that IP is, and how little (if any) profit that IP brings Harmony Gold, who in that fucking company cares enough to take legal action about it? If anything, they might actually see additional revenue if this mechwarrior game had the unseen mechs in it, with a simple "like these designs? Check out these Harmony Gold (tm) shows!"
Ok, that last bit was a long shot, but personally I was a big fan of the Robotech books as a kid, and learning that some of my favorite battletech mechs are actually Macross/Robotech designs makes me want to see more robotech.
Easy to see how Smith and Tinker oopsed about being able to use the lifted designs. Especially since the actual Battletech miniatures game (under Catalyst and Iron Wind Metals) has reclaimed the right to use most of these mechs, including the Warhammer.
Easy to see how Smith and Tinker oopsed about being able to use the lifted designs. Especially since the actual Battletech miniatures game (under Catalyst and Iron Wind Metals) has reclaimed the right to use most of these mechs, including the Warhammer.
A reasonable oops... guess the new rights didn't include "...and derivatives". Somebody was either shortsighted or there were severe limitations to what rights were on the table for discussion.
I have been SO excited about possibly seeing the "unseen" mechs again in game.
This news makes me sad, and as much as I love Robotech, it makes me think ill of Harmony Gold. Hopefully they'll work this shit out, money will trade hands and we'll get the Unseen's again and HG can fuck off back to the corners of whatever the hell they've been doing these past few decades. Still working on that Shadow Chronicles sequel?
Damned well better be.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Easy to see how Smith and Tinker oopsed about being able to use the lifted designs. Especially since the actual Battletech miniatures game (under Catalyst and Iron Wind Metals) has reclaimed the right to use most of these mechs, including the Warhammer.
No; it turns out that they didn't have the rights to the Macross designs after all, even for tabletop.
“Sometimes things just don’t go as you want them to.”
That’s always an auspicious beginning to anything, isn’t it? Well, in this case it’s true. A few weeks back, we came out with some fantastic news. We were bringing the ‘Unseen’ back! We reviewed documents, talked to a great many people, and spent time with some lawyers. We felt we had a solid position.
Sadly, some of the information we acted upon turned out to be inaccurate. Twelve of the ‘Unseen’ images previously used within the BattleTech universe were involved in a court case in the 1990s: Archer, Longbow, Rifleman, Warhammer, Wasp, Stinger, Phoenix Hawk, Crusader, Marauder, Stinger LAM, Wasp LAM and Phoenix Hawk LAM. This we knew. But at the end of that court case, as part of a confidential settlement, it was agreed that the sole and exclusive world-wide right to these images (outside of Japan) would rest with another US company.
It is for this reason that we have chosen to revise our plans to publish these specific images in current product.
Though we spoke with a number of individuals before making our initial decision, no one involved in Catalyst was aware of this agreement. Still, the owner to these images has been very cool with us about the whole situation. They are a good group of people, and we will continue our attempts to work with them as we look toward the future.
I hope you all know, this was something we attempted out of a true passion to bring you everything you have wanted out of BattleTech over the past 25 years. This was one of those big holes we thought we could patch, and sadly we were wrong. I know there are times where it’s easy to see Catalyst as “The Powers that Be” for the games we make, but let me use this as an opportunity to remind you that we are also huge, huge fans (just in case you didn’t already know that from my years of blogs). Over the past two years there have been several projects behind the scenes that we’ve been working like crazy on because WE want to see BattleTech be a great game from every angle. We want it approachable for beginners, and compelling for veterans. More than anything we want to be able to share as much as we can from 25 years worth of story and products… and this was a big piece of that puzzle. Yet we simply can’t in this one case, and for that we as fans and game designers are truly saddened.
So after all of that, I would like to extend my sincerest apologies. Though we’re still able to use many of the unseen designs, these core twelve remain some of the most beloved. I hope you understand it was entirely out of our own passion for the game that this entire situation has unfolded as it did.
The BattleTech: 25 Years of Art & Fiction PDF has been adjusted accordingly, as has the printed product
Thank you all for your support over these past few years. It’s what has made even set backs like this all worth it as we continued forward making a great game even better.
Randall Bills, Managing Developer Catalyst Game Labs
Orogogus on
0
Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
The IIC refits aren't going anywhere. Those were only removed because FASA ended up purging all out-of-house designs, regardless of where they came from, and aren't being taken out this time. Likewise with the Ost-mechs, as they look absolutely nothing like their source material.
As for obsessing over the designs, most of these were in the game since it was called Battledroids, and featured pretty prominently in storylines over the years, and were the personal rides of most of the named characters.
That said, I'm pretty sure the only ones on this list people really give a damn about are the Warhammer and Marauder.
The IIC refits aren't going anywhere. Those were only removed because FASA ended up purging all out-of-house designs, regardless of where they came from, and aren't being taken out this time. Likewise with the Ost-mechs, as they look absolutely nothing like their source material.
As for obsessing over the designs, most of these were in the game since it was called Battledroids, and featured pretty prominently in storylines over the years, and were the personal rides of most of the named characters.
That said, I'm pretty sure the only ones on this list people really give a damn about are the Warhammer and Marauder.
Posts
That's interesting and all, but it did work about two weeks ago. In order words, it did work on modern GPUs. And I'm pretty sure someone didn't swap out my video card while I wasn't looking, so that leads me to think it's an issue with the video drivers. Back when this thread was younger, it was working fine.
I really wish they'd do something like clean the Reseen designs up a bit more and just stuck with them to put this whole issue to rest once and for all. Yeah it sucks to not have the classic-classic designs again but I think in the long run having something that's purely 100% Battletech is better for everybody.
Also, the Griffin, Scorpion, Goliath, Wolverine and Thunderbolt. It seems pretty clear that Harmony Gold is still holding onto the Robotech license, but that the others have been cleared.
Still, they've already got that Warhammer running around in their engine. Surely they're going to work out at least the secondary mecha like the Warhammer, Rifleman and Marauder, right? I could see the Veritechs/Valkyries being under contention, since they're the centerpiece of Robotech/Macross, but the other dudes barely get any screen time.
that would make sense only if you were using some ancient drivers from ages past.
or maybe nVidia.
RE: Unseen; I don't care, I just wanna stomp and pew again.
Yeah, that's what I'm worried about resorting to, since it'll effect all my games (though not necessarily negatively).
It's a damn shame that MW3 is so temperamental, while the MW2 games have had custom patches and MW4 is not.
Oh god is my card that old already
*evil laughter*
Though seriously, I'm fairly certain it's the most recent video drivers. Elliotw2, what patch were you using? 1.2 or something else from the MW3.org forums?
The game boots and runs, but gets a lot of visual errors and weird stuff. In addition to the super jump bug caused by current CPUs.
I'm going to try installing it onto my laptop, which has a significantly lesser video card, also from Nvidia. Not an idea platform, but given that MW3 doesn't use TrackIR4, and my laptop has USB ports, it's better than nothing.
....though, seriously, MW3 with TrackIR4....that would be pretty badass. Except for the fact that you'd have to toggle it off if you didn't want to screw with the crosshair.
EDIT: Well, looks like it DOES run on my Vista 64-bit laptop. Didn't even have to update. Hah, funny that. I suspect it's because I haven't updated the video drivers in a while, however.
*angry first wave at Nvidia*
I guess I'll have to explore plugging in my laptop into my nicer monitor and whatnot. Running out of desk space as it is.
Anyway, I just found out about this, but apparently the co-copyright owner has filed a cease and desist order against IGN, and they've taken issue with the actual trailer itself too.
Edit - To save people the pain of going to IGN:
Edit Edit - Also I misread, these are the co-copyright owners of Robotech.
It's typical HG shenanigans. They're the reason why we can't have nice Macross things.
It would help if Harmony Gold would state which of their designs were copied and used again despite the previous issue. Then we can all decide easily if this is bullshit. There isn't much on Wiki about them. Gonna look at the Robotech one now.
And yeah, it's (the Warhammer) such an iconic Battletech unit, I really wish this nonsense would go away.
It's a lot of he says she says... HG claims worldwide rights on SDF Macross and it's derivatives. The 2002 ruling says Studio Nue has sole ownership of the Valkyrie design, but the 2003 ruling says Tatsunoko has rights to the first Macross series. HG got their worldwide rights from Tatsunoko, so in theory they only have rights to stuff from the first Macross series. I think one of the debating points is what exactly is included in "derivatives"... in the past HG have been dicks and blocked almost all Macross related merchandise in the US, even official release of stuff from Macross Plus, by calling all of that "derivatives".
If Smith and Tinker wanted to contest this (and they really should, for all that is good and holy), they should have their in-house lawyers look at who has ownership of the destroid design, and whether those rights extend to HG. If the rights go to Studio Nue, then they should be on better ground assuming they cleared everything with Studio Nue/Big West. If the design went to Tatsunoko... well...
And that's kinda funny that they do this shit for merchandise that would benefit them by selling in the US. Are they assholes who think they're too good for our money? Fine, they don't have to get it!
From memory:
Warhammer
Marauder
Rifleman
Archer
Wasp
Stinger
Valkyrie
Phoenix Hawk
Ostsol
Ostroc
Ostscout
Longbow
And any Clan IIC refit versions of the above.
It kind of drives home how horrible BattleTech art is that people don't care about the hundreds and hundreds of designs they made themselves, but obsess over a handful that were copied from '70s anime.
It's hard to say Harmony Gold's just being dicks if the BattleTech guys haven't paid up for the license. And that could be tough, as in my experience more people have fond memories of the Robotech cartoon than have had anything to do with anything BattleTech or Mechwarrior.
Is there anything to suggest that anyone on the BT/MW side has cleared everything with Studio Nue/Big West? The original BattleTech license came from 20th Century Imports, which comes across as extremely sketchy. The new deal would hopefully be on firmer ground, but I haven't heard the details. I believe that it would have to have been more than just Studio Nue, though, as Dougram was a source of several Unseen designs (Battlemaster, Griffin, Shadowhawk, Thunderbolt, Wolverine, Goliath), and I don't think they had anything to do with Studio Nue.
And
Ghost Bear 4 lyfe not 4 a day
:P
Wow, I just went way out there didn't I?
XBL - Foreverender | 3DS FC - 1418 6696 1012 | Steam ID | LoL
A lot more than the people who have the B-Tech rights.
Now, with that figured out, I still loathe and despise whoever is behind all this at Harmony Gold. Seriously, as convoluted as the ownership of that IP is, and how little (if any) profit that IP brings Harmony Gold, who in that fucking company cares enough to take legal action about it? If anything, they might actually see additional revenue if this mechwarrior game had the unseen mechs in it, with a simple "like these designs? Check out these Harmony Gold (tm) shows!"
Ok, that last bit was a long shot, but personally I was a big fan of the Robotech books as a kid, and learning that some of my favorite battletech mechs are actually Macross/Robotech designs makes me want to see more robotech.
A reasonable oops... guess the new rights didn't include "...and derivatives". Somebody was either shortsighted or there were severe limitations to what rights were on the table for discussion.
This news makes me sad, and as much as I love Robotech, it makes me think ill of Harmony Gold. Hopefully they'll work this shit out, money will trade hands and we'll get the Unseen's again and HG can fuck off back to the corners of whatever the hell they've been doing these past few decades. Still working on that Shadow Chronicles sequel?
Damned well better be.
No; it turns out that they didn't have the rights to the Macross designs after all, even for tabletop.
http://battletech.catalystgamelabs.com/2009/08/10/sometimes-things-just-dont-go-as-we-want-them-to/
(Wall of text)
As for obsessing over the designs, most of these were in the game since it was called Battledroids, and featured pretty prominently in storylines over the years, and were the personal rides of most of the named characters.
That said, I'm pretty sure the only ones on this list people really give a damn about are the Warhammer and Marauder.
Rifleman never gets any love.
Steam Name: Dr.Oblivious
If you can't live for the now, at least live for the future.