The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.

Video Game Legal Thread

SkyEyeSkyEye Registered User regular
edited August 2009 in Games and Technology
Welcome to the Video Game Legal Thread! ITT, we discull any interesting court cases, patent infringement lawsuits, and what have you, any topic where games and the U.S. legal system cross paths. Or, that of any other country, if not from America. The thread is designed with what I assume is the same purpose as the Sales thread; the interesting trends now affect how the gaming industry unfolds in the years and hopefully decades to come. Anything I find fascinating in the thread I'll add to the OP if I have time.

ESA sues CTA over video game ad discrimination
The ESA is filing a lawsuit against the CTA (Chicago Transit Authority) over alleged bias against the video game industry over other media of similar content. There was a controversy last year when the CTA took down ads on its buses about the M-rated Grand Theft Auto IV. There was apparently nothing controversial about the ads themselves, and the ads came back after a suit by Take Two. The CTA later passed an ordinance that ads would not appear on its buses about video or computer games rated either M or AO. From Gamasutra,
"The CTA’s ordinance constitutes a clear violation of the constitutional rights of the entertainment software industry," says ESA CEO Michael Gallagher. "Courts across the United States, including those in the CTA’s own backyard, have ruled consistently that video games are entitled to the same First Amendment protections as other forms of entertainment."

The ESA alleges the ordinance is unconstitutional, as it "restricts speech in a public forum that is otherwise open to all speakers without a compelling interest for doing so." It also claims the CTA "impermissibly discriminates on the basis of viewpoint and ignores less restrictive means of achieving the supposed ends of the ordinance."

Brütal Legend Devs Counterue Activision
Double Fine, the developers behind guitar-based action game Brütal Legend, are suing the game's former publisher Activision. The series was dropped by Activision apparently because it couldn't be "exploited" on a yearly basis, and was later picked up by EA. Activision later sued Double Fine for apparently being in breach of contract in awarding EA with the new publishing rights.

Double Fine's countersuit against Activision alleges that the latter company's intial suit illegally stalls Brütal Legend from being released. Double Fine claims that Activision resists releasing new IP, and that it's intentionally attacking the game now that it is receiving a lot of press. The suit further claims that Activision is attempting to create a monopoly with its Guitar Hero franchise by eliminating competition:
Double Fine's countersuit contends Activision's lawsuit was filed to hurt the company and the game, and that it was involved in unlawful business practices and a conspiracy to protect "Guitar Hero" sales.

Activision's "purpose is not only to cancel 'Brutal Legend,' but to kill it completely so that 'Guitar Hero' would not have to face the competition," the lawsuit claims.

Steam: Autumn_Thunder - SC2: AutumnThundr.563 (NA) - Hearthstone: AutumnThundr.1383

SkyEye on

Posts

  • Darth NathanDarth Nathan Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Ok, I suppose I'll contribute the obligatory Australia sucks post.

    Well the first issue is that we have no R rating for games. The highest that things go for us is MA 15+, which means games like Fahrenheit, Fallout 3, GTA IV, and many other popular titles have to be censored to various levels to gain shelf space here. If any game rates higher than MA 15+, it is denied classification, and both the seller and the purchaser are fined heavily for any transaction involving the software.

    There is currently a bill in parliament that would introduce an R rating for games, but with our wacky legal system, the only way that bills can get passed is if every state governor signs off on the bill. There is only one holdout out of all the governors on the R rating bill, a religious, family-first wackjob by the name of Michael Atkinson, who refuses to even hear anyone's arguments for the bill to be put through. This will not change until he is booted out of office, and seeing as he currently has a rather high approval rating, that's not happening any time soon.

    The worse problem is the internet censorship bill that the Prime Minister is trying to put through. The proposal involves a blacklist-based filtering system that, in theory, is designed to prevent the flow of child pornography. However, the bill states that the government never has to reveal the list of blocked sites, meaning they essentially have free reign to censor whatever they like. The list has, of course, been leaked, and has been shown to contain sites that are perfectly legal to view by Australian standards, as well as stuff that is anti-government, and most importantly, video game sites.

    You see the filter involves blocking all sites that have content that is above the Australian ratings system. Therefore, any games site, including places like Kotaku, or Kongregate, Second Life, etc. will be blocked, because they have content that is higher than MA 15+.

    This bill is not guaranteed yet, but they're determined to push it through, and any naysayers in parliament are immediately shot down with screams of "YOU MUST BE A CHILD PORNOGRAPHY SUPPORTER". So unfortunately we may very well end up with that problem.

    Darth Nathan on
    camo_sig2.png
  • SkyEyeSkyEye Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Ah, censorship. It's an unfortunate Catch-22; countries with a large amount of uninformed people are more likely to award government more power due to their being uninformed, which then allows the gov more leeway to censor its critics. At least that's my simplistic way of phrasing a complicated subject. That definately sucks for Australians then.

    SkyEye on
    Steam: Autumn_Thunder - SC2: AutumnThundr.563 (NA) - Hearthstone: AutumnThundr.1383

  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    So how about that Tim Langdell and his attacks on any game containing the word 'edge'. Most notably, the iphone game by mobigames, but he's also filed a trademark for "Mirrors (a game by) Edge"

    http://www.tigsource.com/pages/edge-games/

    Spoit on
    steam_sig.png
  • VeganVegan Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Spoit wrote: »
    So how about that Tim Langdell and his attacks on any game containing the word 'edge'. Most notably, the iphone game by mobigames, but he's also filed a trademark for "Mirrors (a game by) Edge"

    http://www.tigsource.com/pages/edge-games/

    Wow. That's quite a list of lawsuits and some hilariously damning photos. What a skeeve. Why do some people have a hard time making an honest living?

    Vegan on
    steam_sig.png
  • Paul SinnettPaul Sinnett Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    The Tim Langdell story is the one that's annoying most of the game developers I know right now. This is something our developer associations should be speaking out about. But since Tim is on the board of the IGDA, the biggest association we have, they've completely clammed up:

    http://igdaboard.wordpress.com/2009/05/

    And very few of the news sites will touch it for fear of legal action. Particularly Edge magazine (no relation) because they have their own trademark issues to deal with over this!

    Penny Arcade is faithfully followed by many developers who are now wondering if they are going to pick it up, either as a news story or as a comic.

    Stolen Pixels has already covered it:

    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/stolen-pixels/6326-Stolen-Pixels-112-Ready-to-Settle

    Paul Sinnett on
  • Darth NathanDarth Nathan Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Good grief this Langdell guy is an absolute dickface. Never heard of him before, probably because he's never actually released anything good. Considering he's on the IGDA, it can be seen as a form of corruption.

    Darth Nathan on
    camo_sig2.png
  • OpiumOpium regular
    edited August 2009
    Ok, I suppose I'll contribute the obligatory Australia sucks post.
    Australia (well, the entire PAL area really) always comes across as the armpit of the video game industry. Censorship, hugely inflated prices by every publisher and on every system, insanely late release dates... Why you guys don't just web-order and import everything (for half off essentially) is beyond me.

    Opium on
  • Paul SinnettPaul Sinnett Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Never heard of him before

    Tim's trademark disputes have largely gone unreported. But, like black holes, you can see their influence on others if you know what to look for. Ever heard of the game Soul Calibur and wondered why the name changed from the original Soul Edge?

    http://www.ipo.gov.uk/tm/t-decisionmaking/t-challenge/t-challenge-decision-results/t-challenge-decision-results-bl?BL_Number=O/337/02

    You'll note that he lost that case. But that doesn't matter when it drags on well beyond the point that you've done all your marketing with an alternative title. Hence, Soul Calibur.

    Paul Sinnett on
  • Satanic JesusSatanic Jesus Hi, I'm Liam! with broken glassesRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    http://edge.omanthatsgood.com/

    Just came across this. Hehehe.

    Satanic Jesus on
    my backloggery 3DS: 0533-5338-5186 steam: porcelain_cow goodreads
  • VeganVegan Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Ever heard of the game Soul Calibur and wondered why the name changed from the original Soul Edge?

    http://www.ipo.gov.uk/tm/t-decisionmaking/t-challenge/t-challenge-decision-results/t-challenge-decision-results-bl?BL_Number=O/337/02

    You'll note that he lost that case. But that doesn't matter when it drags on well beyond the point that you've done all your marketing with an alternative title. Hence, Soul Calibur.

    I never even knew there was such a thing as Soul Edge. Never heard of it. I thought it was always Soul Caliber.

    Vegan on
    steam_sig.png
  • Paul SinnettPaul Sinnett Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    My mistake, they renamed it Soul Blade, Soul Calibur was later:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul_Edge

    Paul Sinnett on
  • StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Never heard of him before

    Tim's trademark disputes have largely gone unreported. But, like black holes, you can see their influence on others if you know what to look for. Ever heard of the game Soul Calibur and wondered why the name changed from the original Soul Edge?

    http://www.ipo.gov.uk/tm/t-decisionmaking/t-challenge/t-challenge-decision-results/t-challenge-decision-results-bl?BL_Number=O/337/02

    You'll note that he lost that case. But that doesn't matter when it drags on well beyond the point that you've done all your marketing with an alternative title. Hence, Soul Calibur.

    Man, I wish that Tim guy fell off the EDGE of a precipice.
    GET IT?
    HUH?

    Stormwatcher on
    Steam: Stormwatcher | PSN: Stormwatcher33 | Switch: 5961-4777-3491
    camo_sig2.png
  • Skull2185Skull2185 Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I don't understand how Brutal Legend is competition for Guitar Hero. Two different game genres here..



    Rythm game Vs. Action Adventure based around a heavy metal concept with maybe some rythm based gameplay when it comes to eddie's guitar

    Skull2185 on
    Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
  • PataPata Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    I don't understand how Brutal Legend is competition for Guitar Hero. Two different game genres here..

    They both involve guitars and people might get confused.

    Pata on
    SRWWSig.pngEpisode 5: Mecha-World, Mecha-nisim, Mecha-beasts
  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I think its rumored when Tim S wouldnt make it a guitar hero spinoff and call it guitar hero: brutal legend activision dumped it.

    DiannaoChong on
    steam_sig.png
  • PataPata Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I think its rumored when Tim S wouldnt make it a guitar hero spinoff and call it guitar hero: brutal legend activision dumped it.

    activisionexplotingcomic.jpg

    Pata on
    SRWWSig.pngEpisode 5: Mecha-World, Mecha-nisim, Mecha-beasts
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Spoit wrote: »
    So how about that Tim Langdell and his attacks on any game containing the word 'edge'. Most notably, the iphone game by mobigames, but he's also filed a trademark for "Mirrors (a game by) Edge"

    http://www.tigsource.com/pages/edge-games/

    I don't fucking believe this. This douchebag gets away with filing suits against anyone and anything that uses the word 'edge' practically.

    Henroid on
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Y'know, I feel bad for Double Fine filing their counter suit against Activision. They're going to lose, because courts in America operate on the word of law.

    Henroid on
  • ShutdownShutdown Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Opium wrote: »
    Ok, I suppose I'll contribute the obligatory Australia sucks post.
    Australia (well, the entire PAL area really) always comes across as the armpit of the video game industry. Censorship, hugely inflated prices by every publisher and on every system, insanely late release dates... Why you guys don't just web-order and import everything (for half off essentially) is beyond me.

    It's a nice thought.. I've seen a few stores deal with imports on the DS and PSP and do pretty well out of them.
    (To the best of my knowledge) PS3 owners have it ok since they play games from any region, but locked-down systems like the 360 mean we can only go after games from the UK. Hampering this are some stores (like Amazon.co.uk for instance) that will ship you just about everything from their large range EXCEPT video games.

    About a decade ago we actually had court ruling that modchips on game consoles that allow for the playing of games from other regions are a legitimate and legal item.... unless the modchip was able to allow pirated games, it's a fair call because the games companies were getting their $$$ regardless. I was stunned because it was a decision that was right, but I didn't expect a court to understand that. Of course, it was overturned on appeal (for reasons I don't know). Had that stayed in effect and more brick-and-mortar game stores had started importing large amounts of cheaper overseas stock, it would have either killed off local distribution (which wouldn't have mattered since we'd just keep getting overseas games) or shaken up the local channels enough so that they would actually keep us inline with the rest of the market.

    Given the Australian governments' willingness to keep going on the censorship bandwagon, we'll never get another ruling like this for fears it'd allow 'little Timmy' to get his hands on another NightTrap.

    Shutdown on
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Henroid wrote: »
    Y'know, I feel bad for Double Fine filing their counter suit against Activision. They're going to lose, because courts in America operate on the word of law.

    We don't know the wording in any of the contracts. As far as I'm aware, none of them are public.

    Shadowfire on
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I think its rumored when Tim S wouldnt make it a guitar hero spinoff and call it guitar hero: brutal legend activision dumped it.

    Rumored nothing, Double Fine flat-out said that when they filed their counter-suit vs. Activision.

    Edit: besides, in the Brutal Legend thread there's a link to an initial statement by the judge in the case saying it's looking pretty unlikely he'll rule for Activision. The final judgment comes down this week I think, just two days before the game is scheduled to go gold.

    cloudeagle on
    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
  • FireWeaselFireWeasel Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    I think its rumored when Tim S wouldnt make it a guitar hero spinoff and call it guitar hero: brutal legend activision dumped it.

    Rumored nothing, Double Fine flat-out said that when they filed their counter-suit vs. Activision.

    Edit: besides, in the Brutal Legend thread there's a link to an initial statement by the judge in the case saying it's looking pretty unlikely he'll rule for Activision. The final judgment comes down this week I think, just two days before the game is scheduled to go gold.

    I haven't read the Brutal Legend thread so I have only been tenuously aware of what's going on there but...holy SHIT.

    Activision well and truly has become the new Evil Empire.

    FireWeasel on
    AC:CL Wii -- 3824-2125-9336 City: Felinito Me: Nick
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Did Itagaki ever successfully sue Tecmo for that owed bonus money?

    emnmnme on
  • ArrathArrath Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    This thread led me into several hours on tvtropes in the video games section. Dammit.

    Arrath on
  • StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Arrath wrote: »
    This thread led me into several hours on tvtropes in the video games section. Dammit.


    Damn it I hate tv tropes.

    Stormwatcher on
    Steam: Stormwatcher | PSN: Stormwatcher33 | Switch: 5961-4777-3491
    camo_sig2.png
  • ArrathArrath Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Whoops I thought this was the Video Game logic thread. Still applies, I guess.

    Arrath on
  • Darth NathanDarth Nathan Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Opium wrote: »
    Ok, I suppose I'll contribute the obligatory Australia sucks post.
    Australia (well, the entire PAL area really) always comes across as the armpit of the video game industry. Censorship, hugely inflated prices by every publisher and on every system, insanely late release dates... Why you guys don't just web-order and import everything (for half off essentially) is beyond me.

    Well you can try. Importing games that are either unrated or over MA 15+ by Australian standards is an offense you can be fined for, so I don't try that. The price thing is a good point, and in fact being a PS3 owner I do actually import the lion's share of my games. It is kind of depressing to note that in fact one of the reasons I bought a PS3 over a 360 is because I could buy my games from overseas for a fraction of the price.

    I think what's more surprising is the fact that there hasn't been an inquiry into why our prices are so ridiculous; case in point, SF4 and RE5, two relatively recent releases, sold for the equivalent of precisely 100 US dollars. That kind of inflation is absurd, and there is no way you can explain away that much of a price hike by blaming it on importing and distributing costs, considering we are closer geographically to the major manufacturing and shipping centers than the US.

    Darth Nathan on
    camo_sig2.png
  • Paul SinnettPaul Sinnett Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    There's more on the Tim Langdell, Edge saga on Eurogamer:
    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/the-edge-of-reason

    Some of those emails are unbelievable: "EDGE: An Homage to Bobby Bearing." o_O

    Paul Sinnett on
  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    When I ask Papazian about the proposed name change to EDGY he is quick to point out that this was something he suggested earlier in the year but that, at the time, Langdell flatly refused the offer. He sends me Langdell's email response to Mobigame's offer to change the name of their game to EDGY, sent on the 15th May: "[We] would very strongly oppose your use of EDGY which is clearly just adding the 'y' sound to the end of our famous trademark EDGE," Landgell wrote. "In fact, we won a case against someone who tried to use EDGY so we are confident we would win should you try to do that. You need to stop infringing our trademark EDGE and select an entirely different [original emphasis] name for your game which does not even suggest our trademark."

    Which is kind of funny, since they trademarked EDGY in response to mobigames suggesting that they change the name to it

    Spoit on
    steam_sig.png
  • MgsleeMgslee United StatesRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I just got this in my email
    Concerned Members of the IGDA sends you the below message via your IGDA Member Profile:

    Dear [Removed],

    The actions of IGDA board member Tim Langdell since his election in March 2009 have raised questions regarding his suitability as our elected representative. As you no doubt know, the IGDA's mission is: To advance the careers and enhance the lives of game developers by connecting members with their peers, promoting professional development, and advocating on issues that affect the developer community.

    Tim Langdell's company, Edge Games, has trademarked the word "edge" and they leverage this trademark against any media that contains this word--threatening legal action should their target not enter into a licensing arrangement with the studio. Such targets have included David Mamet's film The Edge, Marvel's comic book Edge, EA's Mirror's Edge, and Namco's Soul Edge, which was released as Soul Blade and later, Soulcalibur in the west as a direct result of Edge Games' actions. Most recently their actions have resulted in the removal of the indie game hit, Edge, from the iPhone app store.

    Meanwhile, Edge Games has not been associated with the direct production of an original video game in the last fifteen years.

    After his election to the IGDA board, in a lawsuit against Cybernet regarding Edge of Extinction, Tim Langdell presented himself to the court like this: "Dr. Tim Langdell is considered to be a pioneer in the field of computer gaming and is widely publicized on the Internet and has been engaged as a legal expert in the field of computer gamin." He adds "He presently serves on the Board of Directors of the International Game Developers Association, which is the largest game association worldwide".
    Many of us believe that this is a gross misrepresentation and feel that Tim Langdell is able to use his position on the board of the IGDA to work directly against the mission of the organization. As IGDA members with voting rights, it is our responsibility to elect a board that we can trust to represent us. But no election system is perfect and sometimes corrections need to be made.

    We are asking that you take some time to consider this issue, do a little research online, make up your mind how you feel about it, and take action.

    Under the IGDA bylaws, we are able to call for a special meeting of the membership to vote on the removal of Tim Langdell from the board of directors. In order to do this, we need 10% of the membership to request the board call the special meeting. We are hosting a petition to this effect here: [Removed]

    Thank you for your consideration,
    Concerned Members of the IGDA

    Glad to see IGDA doing something (Since I feel they don't do a whole lot in general)

    Mgslee on
    Hit me up for SSF4 games! (Xbox Live mgslee)
  • Paul SinnettPaul Sinnett Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    It seems the petition now has more than 10% of the membership. This means there will have to be a special meeting and a vote will have to be called.

    Paul Sinnett on
Sign In or Register to comment.