The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
Reason to be fired - is this legal?
Anome
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
My job right now is a waitress at a small restaurant, and yesterday I found out that I may soon be fired for a very strange reason, I think, and I want to know if it would actually be legal for me to get fired:
Over the past few weeks, the till has been short a few times, sometimes on days when I'm working, sometimes other days, and never on a day when I was the only waitress working. Yesterday, my manager told me that if it continues happening, she's going to fire all 4 of the waitresses that work there since she can't prove who it is. Can she do this?
It's mostly a matter of curiosity at this point because I'm quitting anyway, but I really would like to know.
If it matters, I live in BC in Canada.
Over the past few weeks, the till has been short a few times, sometimes on days when I'm working, sometimes other days, and never on a day when I was the only waitress working. Yesterday, my manager told me that if it continues happening, she's going to fire all 4 of the waitresses that work there since she can't prove who it is. Can she do this?
It's mostly a matter of curiosity at this point because I'm quitting anyway, but I really would like to know.
If it matters, I live in BC in Canada.
Anome on
0
Posts
http://www.thelostworlds.net/
i would think its illegal because she can solve the problem and is instead just trying to fire you guys/gals
That sounds like a load of bullshit.
My father runs an animal hospital, and when drugs start dissapearing, he's threatened in the past to fire all of the morning/afternoon/night-shift veterinary technicians (depending upon when it's happening). Usually somebody 'mentions' who has been taking them shortly after
What the hell kind of drugs would someone steal from a vet's office? That shit hasn't been tested on humans. I know I've heard of something that starts with a K but still what the fuck man how low can you go?
Shogun Streams Vidya
Same with where I work. Im in charge of the money at my resturaunt and what we usually do is suspend people for these things, being a server means that if your suspended from work you dont pay your bills. That usually helps the person to get on the ball with thier cash skills. Since I dont know the laws in Canada I would suggest looking at a copy of an application for your store if you can and read the fine print to see if it says anything about "we reserve the right to terminate at our own discretion" or anything.
However every place I have ever seen has security cameras on bank drawers so they should really be looking into that.
Ketamine. The tranquilizers will do different things to you depending on what size of an animal they're meant for, but animal tranquilizers will generally do something for you.
And you're a numbskull if you think the sort of guy who'd inject tranquilizers is the sort of guy who cares if the drug's passed FDA approval for use in human beings.
And stop derailing the bloody thread, it's completely irrelevant. You could have PM'd instead.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
In a nutshell, I'd been there for awhile. The day after the Fourth of July, I was working down in the stock processing area, and so were a couple of guys and a couple of girls.
I had brought my own knife from home. It was a multi-tool...screwdriver, knife, etc. As a stock processor, a pocket-sized scissors/knife/etc was convenient and people were always losing the box cutters we had in the processing area.
Anyway, I had brought it before. People had seen me with it. Coworkers, managers, etc. Nobody ever complained about it. It is also legal to sell and legal to carry in New York as the knife/blade part of the tool was shorter than the width of three fingers. It wasn't a weapon...no more than a pencil is a weapon. In fact, I bought it from a place seven or eight shops down in the same plaza as the TJ Maxx I was working in.
One guy was newish - been there a few months, maybe. I was there for over a year at least. Long story short, this guy had this tweaked-out drunk/high look in his eye when I got there. We always got along though. I got along with all the staff there. Never a problem whatsoever.
So anyway apparently the guy was fucking around and put tape on one of the girl's processing tables, and it was hard to get off. So, I went over and said I'd take care of it and started to scrape it off with the blade on my multi-tool. The girl made some snide comments to the guy and I joined in...all in good fun. I mean the kid put TAPE on a TABLE. It's not like anyone cared.
Anyway, I was holding the blade part while making my joking/snide comments. The guy flips and says "hey, don't you threaten me with that knife" which was just bonkers because I didn't say anything even remotely threatening, didn't point it at him, and wasn't menacing at all. We were just throwing banter back and forth. Or so I thought.
He says "I see you with that fucking knife, don't you fucking point that knife at me." I truly thought he was joking. I picked the knife up and closed the tool, put it down, and said "alright, I'm not threatening you, and I'm gonna give you one chance to apologize or else." I said this with a grin.
Okay, maybe that was the wrong choice of words. I admit that. But, you have to understand, I thought he was joking with me entirely. I've NEVER had a problem with this guy, and though he looked a little tweaked off, the things he was saying, about me threatening him, were SO bonkers I didn't think that even being high on acid would have caused him to say them.
He walks over, holding a broom handle, and says "hey, tough guy, why don't you say that to my face again."
Like a dumbass, I still thought he was teasing me, so I said "apologize."
He lunged at me, wrestled me to the floor, and had the broom handle in my throat (crushing my throat and cutting off oxygen) before I realized the lunatic was serious all that time.
Everyone runs to get the supervisor, who brings the manager. The manager and supervisor break it up. I didn't even TOUCH the other kid...I was so surprised and it happened so fast I didn't have time. Plus, I didn't want to touch him because I didn't want to lose my job over his lunacy.
Anyway, I'm the obvious victim, having been on the floor and now clutching my throat. The manager takes the assailant up to his office (I presume). I'm standing there, downstairs, in pain, for over 30 minutes. Finally, he comes to get me.
Long story short, he asks me to give my version of the events, I did, and then he hands me a piece of paper explaining that I'm terminated. I was incredulous. They didn't even ask me if I was okay AND they questioned the attacker first. Never suggested an ambulance. Nothing. Then they have the audacity to tell me that I carried a weapon to work, and that according to the handbook I was "involved in a fight" and thus violated the rules. So I asked him, "what if someone just comes up to you and punches you in a face out of the blue? You're involved in violence then. You're a total victim, but involved in violence. Would you get fired?" He didn't have a response to that.
So I leave. This was the worst possible case scenario. FIRED AND ON RECORD FOR CARRYING A WEAPON AND BEING INVOLVED IN A VIOLENT ACT. There was absolutely no way I was going to let that stand. I didn't give a shit about the job. The job was like any other bullshit $6/hr. job. But I was going to be damned if I was gonna let that go on some file.
I immediately called the home office and then the office above that. I was told that they had spoken to my manager and the events did not paint me in a good light because of the entirely legal tool that they claimed was illegal to either own or carry. I told them I would get back to them on that. I looked it up and did. It was legal to own or carry, even if it wasn't sensical to do so. I even told them at the regional office that I didn't care about the job. I just didn't want my termination papers to say I carried a weapon to work and was involved in a violent altercation. I also brought up the fact that I was very obviously the victim which was readily perceivable and corroborated by coworkers, but I was left uninformed, alone, clutching my throat in the basement of TJ Maxx without being offered any kind of medical care by anyone. My throat was red and hurt for days after that. I told her all this. And I asked for a copy of the termination papers. She said they couldn't comply with that request, but assured me that it didn't go into detail about the "weapon" or the altercation. I refused to accept her word on that and told her she'd be hearing from my lawyer.
A lawyer can subpoena the employment office and obtain a copy of the termination papers. Actually, I can't even claim to have had that idea on my own. She let that drop. She actually said, "the only way you can get a copy is if your lawyer subpoenas us" or something like that - I don't remember the exact syntax of the legal mumbo jumbo. As soon as she said that, I said "okay, well you'll be hearing from my lawyer then."
Mind you, I had spoken to the regional office multiple times over the course of five weeks. It was now the middle of August. I had gotten fired on July 5th, and out of work for a little over five weeks.
This last conversation took place on a Friday.
On Monday she called me back. They offered to reverse the termination, destroy the termination documents, reinstate me at TJ Maxx, and pay for every week I was out of work. I stayed there for a few months (four, I think) and quit.
And, yes, this was in New York, an Employment at Will state where they can fire you for any reason. If they don't like the way your shoes look, they can fire you.
But you still have some wiggle room and some rights. Employment doesn't exist in a bubble here - they can't just tarnish your record willy-nilly.
I'm fairly certain you can fuck this guy in his face if he fires you and tries to paint you as a thief on your termination record. Maybe I'm just extra anal, but I wasn't going to be unfairly cast as a violent, weapon-wielding individual on record, and you shouldn't allow yourself to go on record as a thief, either.
Pretty rude to tl;dr in someone else's help thread
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
I work in a vet clinic. We keep these drugs on hand:
Ketamine
Valium
Demerol
Morphine
Phenobarbital
Pentobarbital
Torbugesic
They have all been tested on people. They're human drugs used in animals.
t: OP. Workers have an amazing amount of rights here in B.C. If you've been working for more than 3 months, they need an astronomical amount of proof that you've been stealing, as well as I think written records in order to fire you. If you weren't there when till shortages were happening then I can't seen any grounds to fire you, so you have legal recourse in this case.
Best of luck!
They cast a shadow like a sundial in the morning light. It was half past 10.
If youd rather not work there any more at all and not have to go through the whole legal system, it would probably be better to quit now, and when your new employers ask you why you left your last job, you can say "My boss was paranoid and was going to fire all the staff because apparently the till kept coming up short. I found the constant accusations were creating a hostile environment so i left while we were still on good terms."
But if you do want to go through the whole legal thing, you can. Its well within your rights especially if you can prove that you werent there on some days the till was coming up short, and if they have absolutely no proof it was you.
Check out my band, click the banner.
In Canada we frown upon people being dickheads.
If you're on a probationary period, you're probably going to be SOL.
If you do get fired, that's definitely a point in your favor.
My guess as to what's been happening is that people make the occasional mistake in giving change - the amounts missing have only once been over $10. I can see grabbing the wrong coins when it's really busy and you're rushed, especially since out of the 4 people working now, only one has been there longer than 3 months. (the others are 3 months, 2 months (me) an just started last week)
Now, putting on record that they were stealing and putting that as a reason for termination without solid evidence, thats something else entirely.
But if I ever am in charge of people, I'm not hiring anyone unless I can look them in the eye, tell them that I don't like their face, and fire them.
I can see the official legal records requiring evidence, but not job termination.
As for the OP, talk to a lawyer, you can probably find one will work pro-bono in you yellowbooks, as stated your area has some pretty powerful employees rights.
However, there was recently a thread about a possible wrongful dismissal in BC, and I think a person from that thread posted above me in this thread and linked the same link they linked in that thread. I didn't read it, but when they first presented the link, they said they had reasearched and found that link so you could do more of your own research, so I would recommend checking that out.
Also try checking your provincial government's website, the Labour-specific website (both the Labour Minister and the largest public union (ours is SGEU, but CUPE is big all over Canada)) and look for specifics there. The dismissal legislation should be somewhat easy to find.
You can't discriminate because of race or whatnot, but it basically allows you to discriminate for nonsense reasons. If you want to hire only black-ink loving people, that's your prerogative in a Employment at Will state.
There are exceptions that differ from state to state, and you cannot discriminate based on race, creed, age, etc., but in an At Will state, it is understood that you can be fired at any time for any reason:
*I pulled that quote from Wikipedia, but it is backed by a real source.
edit: The point of my story, and I think Captain Vash understands this too, is that an employer can't just accuse you of a crime and fire you. Okay, if he doesn't like the way you look at him, fine, you're out. But if he calls you in his office and says "you've been stealing, get out," and you damn well haven't, then you have some recourse against him and can likely have it turned around if you can prove you weren't stealing.
They don't have to have a real reason, but they cannot falsely accuse you of a crime either. When they do that, it kind of nullifies their At Will rights as an employer, at least as far as I can tell.
That certainly sounds like it.
When else would a company agree to pay you for 5 weeks of work you didn't do? Never.... aside from a possible lawsuit.
Sorry, but that's incorrect.
If I were to take you to court over the pen thing, I'd win hands down.
It's the employers job to determine and keep record of how they can discriminate against employees. These discriminations have to based on BFORs (Bona Fide Occupational Requirements). Basically that means that it must be NECESSARY to discriminate.
It's like if you all of a sudden went deaf (for the sake of example, completely unrelated to work, like you blew out your eardrums shooting a rifle) and you work in a call centre calling people all day. They'd be able to release you from your job because you can't hear the people that are calling you.
Sorry, but that's incorrect.
They can fire you for any reason they want, including the pen shit.
They can fire you if they hear your voice is squeaky.
There are discriminatory reasons that they are NOT allowed to fire for. However, if they want to maintain an image - people that use blue ink, for instance, or people with mid-range toned voices - they can do exactly that.
That's what "At Will" laws protect, the employer's right to fire for ANY reason that isn't discriminatory in a way that has already been legislated as illegal, i.e. based on creed, race, gender, or sexual preference. Anything else is fair-game discrimination. An employer has a right to preserve their image. If they want to hire brunettes only and the assistant manager accidentally hires a blonde, the owner could legally fire the blonde for being blonde, especially if it's a business dedicated to, say, dying people's hair brown.
edit: I just reread your post. Go look up the laws, please, as you could not be more wrong. The point of "At Will" laws is that they can fire at WHIM. There does not need to be ANY "necessary" reason insofar as the law or anyone else is concerned.
That's what i just said.
As long as it's a BFOR, than you're in the clear.
read the post.
I'm just saying that if it ISN'T one, than you could be taken to court.
I edited my post above, but I'll restate my point here:
You are incorrect. I mean, you can take anyone to court. You will be laughed out, though. "At Will" laws specifically allow employers to fire at whim, for whatever reason they want as long as it is not discriminatory to race, creed, sexual preference, or one of the other big no-no discriminations.
There doesn't need to be a bonafide or necessary reason to fire. They can fire you merely because they don't like the way your nose looks, don't like people with blue eyes, don't like people that wear beige pants, or anything else.
It is this right that "At Will" laws protect, for employers. It also protects an employee's right to quit without notice and without recourse.
edit: In fact, your employer can fire you for being Republican if he wants to, even if you are working at a bagel shop which has no political relationship.
What i'm saying is that if you were to fire me because i liked blue pens, I could take you to court and odds are I'd win. BUT that's only because you chose to fire me for that reason.
UNLESS
The job required that I only like black pens. Then I'd have no case.
Yes, "At Will" laws apply, but only where they're employed. But you can't fire somebody based on how they look. IT'S ILLEGAL. It's the same thing for hiring; if i asked you to send me a picture of you with your application, than I could be taken to court over discriminatory practices.
But, say you worked in a customer service position within a company where you met people all the time. You'd be able to turn the guy with the mohawk down because it doesn't suit your image.
ALL I'M SAYING IS THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE A REASON TO FIRE SOMEBODY THAT MAKES IT A QUALIFIED DECISION. THIS WOULD INCLUDE NOT HAVING ENOUGH WORK FOR THE STAFF ON HAND, OR ANY BFORs.
That's like me saying I'm firing you because your name isn't Tony is a legitimate reason to fire you. It's not. It's retarded.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
But, as people have said B.C. law is much more protective of employees than apparently At Will law in the US is, the context should be helpful as it is entirely unlikely that it is legal to fire her in this case, for these reasons, as it would be illegal even in a US state with very loose or sloppy legislation on the matter.
The B.C. laws look more like:
Both are pretty specifically in defense of the OP, especially the B.C. laws much are worded loosely in defense of the employee.
Yeah. It sounds like, from the second quotation, the employer would have to have specific proof of the OP individually stealing for her to be legally fired for that reason. The employer can't simply fire his entire staff for that reason. If he kept his reasoning to himself and just fired them all, that would be a different story - wanted to recycle the staff or whatever, fine. But now that he gave the reason and spelled out his asinine plan, he doesn't have a leg to stand on unless he has proof that she stole.
Also, if the amounts are less than $10 short each day, then it is retarded to call it stealing. Maybe the employer just hired dumb people that can't count (OP notwithstanding). That would be a more likely accusation, and would actually be "just cause" for firing everyone, or maybe at least giving them a quiz in addition/subtraction.