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Feeling pretty damn helpless
Tetsugen
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I got violently mugged last night by 4 guys in public. Broken wrist, numerous bruises and cuts all over, got kicked in the face and almost stabbed. I'm not going to go into any more details but the cops can't do shit and I'm feeling actually pretty depressed and quite helpless. I'm not exactly in shape and have never been in a fight but I feel the need to take to arms. I've been looking at some self defence courses and they are mostly for women (the courses offered in my area), but there seems to be a large martial arts community where I am.
What forms should I be looking at when it comes to multiple person combat ?
I would just like to have the ability to protect myself if this should ever occur again.
Coles notes:
-Got shit beat out of me by 4 guys, what martial arts training should I take for multiple person combat.
What forms should I be looking at when it comes to multiple person combat ?
I would just like to have the ability to protect myself if this should ever occur again.
Coles notes:
-Got shit beat out of me by 4 guys, what martial arts training should I take for multiple person combat.
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None. If you are assaulted by four guys (potentially with weapons) your options are 1) run, or 2) get beat. This applies pretty much no matter who you are or how long you have trained. Life is not a movie and training with ninjas in the mountains will not help you fight off four guys.
Martial arts are a completely awesome workout, outlet, and lifestyle choice, and I encourage you to get into one. But for the most part they train you to fight within a set of rules; the people who are honestly, confidently able to defend themselves against multiple serious attackers are the people who've dedicated their lives to their art, and even within that group they are few and far between indeed.
That being said, if you want to learn to do is fight, people seem to like either BJJ or "traditional" jiu-jitsu combined with training in a more striking-intensive art (boxing, even.) If there is an explicit MMA gym in your area you could also approach them and either enroll directly, or ask for a referral.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
A more practical approach would be working on heightening your awareness of your surroundings and not put yourself in a position where you are attacked by four guys before you know it.
You'll get incredibly varying opinions on which martial arts are best, but you realistically need to know how to avoid taking punishment, not beating up four dudes who have surprise, numbers, tactics and weapon advantages over you. The best way to avoid punishment like that is to run.
It won't help you beat 4 guys looking to kick your ass, as even with years of extensive training that may not be possible... but what it can do is get you in shape, and in a better position (mentally and physically) to judge the situation you are in. Then next time something like this happens you will either be able to outrun/outmaneuver your assailants, or at least weather the attacks with nothing more than some cuts and bruises.
If your area is big on martial arts, take a look at the various schools/styles that are around and see which one appeals to you. Do not go looking to learn how to kick ass, that's not the point of any good martial art... you go to learn something, just like you would a school.
And just to reiterate again... no matter how much you train or what you wind up learning, fighting off more than 1-2 people is not a safe proposition. Even if you are a big and bad ass kicking mofo with some super moves on you, all it takes is one shot to bring your ability to defend yourself down to almost nothing... and that chance gets more and more likely as you make the fight more difficult for yourself (more/better opponents).
Always run first, you should only be fighting if it's a last resort (IE, you can't run and you are fairly certain that these guys are going to do more than just toss you around some).
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Pretty much this. Also, as someone else mentioned, learn to be more aware of your surroundings. Learn areas to avoid, if a dangerous area is unavoidable drive, get a cab or try to travel in groups. Nobody, except perhaps some kind of military self-defense teacher or someone who actually practices martial arts as a lifestyle (like, 24 hrs a day) is going to come out to the good against four (or even two) other people, and even against a single person things can be very unpredictable. The best thing to do is try to avoid these situations altogether or, if they're unavoidable, ameliorate them with things in your favor (like a cab or a couple of friends).
In addition to your combat training, talking to a counselor or a therapist or a friend. This might definitely help you get out of the funk you are in.
Good luck dude.
As others have said, against four guys that jump you when you don't expect it, you've got two options: 1. Run 2. take a beating.
Against four guys that jump you when you DO expect it - you have one option: run.
You want to know why? Because this isn't the movies and they are likely carrying a weapon - the question being what weapon. It could be a knife or a gun, and I've talked to several professional bodyguards who say they rather be up against a person wielding a gun than a knife when it comes to CQC.
If you want to know how to fight, no martial arts is going to realistically prepare you for a fight on the street. If you want to learn how to defend yourself, CQC (close quarters combat) training will be your best bet as it trains you to improvise (take your car keys, put it between your knuckles, and strike the neck, eyes, etc), how to use a credit card for defense, and other useful tidbits.
But I mean, really, with four guys on you - all resisting will do is piss them off. If you injure one of their friends badly using one of the above mentioned techniques, you're likely to get yourself killed.
We live in a fucked up world and the people who jumped you are to blame. I don't want to make it sound like it's your fault by saying "try to avoid the situation, take a different route," but realistically that is the best option for these sorts of situations. The idea of "manning up" is an absurd notion that get the pig headed killed and breeds idiocy on the streets. Manning up is often fueled by the anger of losing control of a situation and wanting to ensure "justice" is served if such a situation comes up again in your life, but it's often misguided since sometimes there's little you can do in some of those situations.
CQC, however, might give you enough time to hit someone and get away.
It may not help against a group of four people but, then again, they might seek out an easier target.
Oh, and I'll repeat that escape is always the best option if something does happen.
Not enough lime for this. In the same way that the movies give people the idea that one guy can fight off several easily, the movies also give people the idea that you can quickly recover from a trauma and not have any lingering effects. You need to find someone who you can trust to talk about this. Like Shawnasee said, a counselor or therapist, maybe a priest if you're religious, maybe a teacher or professor you can trust (I don't know how old you are).
It's going to be easy to try to beat yourself up (metaphorically) about this, thinking it's your fault, and there will be people who will tell you that too. Keep in mind: it's possible you made a bad decision, put yourself in a dangerous place. But they made the choice to invade your life. Unless you did something really, really stupid like taunting a group of 4 guys, and I'm guessing that isn't the case, this isn't your fault. You can learn something from it, but you have to try not to let it rule your life.
Good luck.
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The idea is more that if his motivations are "I'm gonna get all buff and be able to take on four attackers! Rawr!", it's a good idea to point out that's not a realistic goal.
The first 90% of self defense is being aware of your surrounding and being smart about where you are. You should look for warning signs to avoid situations in which you make yourself very vulnerable and prone to these situations. Walking around with your ipod in and zoning out the world? Not smart. Sitting in some secluded, shady area playing with your expensive PSP or iPhone? Also not that smart. (updated) It's never going to be your fault, there are certain activities that will increase your risk. But only when you have failed the first 90% of awareness and self-defense does one's martial art training ever kick in. And even then, it's not a guarantee. Trained officers go down in close quarters combat (no firearms involved) and they've devoted their entire careers to the practice.
I agree that martial arts is a great way to work out, it can often be a welcoming and supportive life style/community, but it's not a sure path to Bruce Lee ass-kickery. If you understand that still, then by all means, please join up with any number of martial arts groups. Just don't go in with the mentality, "Man, I want to fuck someone up the next time they try this"
I really am sorry that this happened to you. I got mugged by 6 (larger) guys while I was on BART. They didn't mess me up that bad, but it was still a depressing and shocking experience; I had done martial arts for a little while right before that and I knew how unrealistic and stupid it would have been if I had tried to fight 6 of them. But I'd have to say it was stupid of me to make myself a more appealing target. Updated: I made my chances at being mugged higher, but getting mugged was still not my fault!
EDIT:
Also, have you called your bank(s) to cancel your ATM and credit cards? As well as put out alerts on whatever else might pertain to your wallet?
EDIT2:
I've updated my diction.
Right, but I've also had situations where one guy approaches a victim, tries to mug him, and when the victim resists, a second guy comes out and either hits him in his side in the lungs or worse, uses a weapon to disable him.
Even with one attacker, it's stupid to do anything other than get away or defend yourself to give yourself enough time to get away.
Understand that it's never the victim's fault for getting mugged. Ever. Walking around with an IPOD out isn't "wrong," but it carries risks. I know what you were getting at, but at two instances, you implied or directly said it would be his fault, which is exactly what people do to rape victims.
"Got raped walking down the street? Should have gone into a more lighted area. Your fault. How could you have been so stupid." Etc. It's the wrong mentality. Instead, it should be "there are assholes out there, by walking outside of lighted areas, there is a greater risk of x happening because of said assholes."
It's not the victim's fault for not knowing these things, but the more precautions you take the less likely someone is to become a victim. It's never a guarantee, obviously, but avoiding these situations in the future is the best way to ensure that the OP doesn't get mugged again - much more so than enrolling in a martial arts class.
Yes, which is why I went into detail on that. But this:
Undermines all of that.
You're not going to beat up four guys. But you might at least make the four guys decide against risking a broken nose or a prolonged scuffle.
In my youth I used to practice Karate and I was able to fight and defense myself, in addition I am a very tall guy. However, martial arts is not a guarantee that you will have the ability to fight several guys at the same and win, I tried this once (fighting 3 punks) and one of them was able to hit me with something badly in my left arm.
Yeah, aren't you more likely to be injured or killed by your own gun if you try to defend yourself with one?
You're right, I agree with what you've mentioned. I merely had poor word choice while making my post, I've since updated it. While still not a victim's fault ever, increasing one's own risk in such a situation is still not a good move.
And no one is saying that he should.
This is extremely unlikely. As mentioned before, if you resist in an effective enough manner to piss them off, you're still going to lose against four guys, only this time they're going to be angry. Maybe angry enough to seriously injure or kill you.
Is this a statement or a question?, when you purchase a gun, the most logical thing you need to do is to learn to use it. Being scared all the time is just pointless.
This would not be advisable unless you are willing to commit yourself to a whole heaping of gun ownership and shooting classes/lessons. Realistically, I'd say the OP is much better off committing himself to martial arts and improving his physical condition and self confidence over owning a firearm.
I've taken on 4 people and won, but I'm a big mofo and know what I'm doing. I also had the added support of difficult terrain and a friend handling 2 other guys there providing some mutual distraction. If I had been alone and jumped by 4 guys seriously looking to do me harm, I would not place money on me coming out of it in good shape (or at all) had I fought back.
Just to put it in a nice easy list style:
1) It's not your fault so don't kick yourself over this.
2) Certainly seek anything you need to get through this point, if that includes someone professionally to talk it over, go for it.
3) As mentioned, cancel any cards they got from you, as well as ensuring any ID you had is notified as missing, also call your credit company/bank to put a watch for ID theft.
4) If you seriously feel the need to be less vulnerable absolutely look into ways to address that, just do it on the grounds of improving yourself, not revenge/ass kicking.
Still, martial arts might help. I donno what you look like, but if you've been in it for a few years, you get out of it what you put into it. Over the years my body has completely changed. I've lost so much fat, put on so much muscle. And that alone will make you look like a less appealing target.
The same way professional athletes train every day, 365 days a year, sometimes for multiple years just to compete for a few minutes is the same mindframe you have to have.
It's important to note that if you do decide to get a gun that you should be really careful about finding out what the laws are for self defense with a gun. For example: Do you need to be able to clearly see a person and identify that they are a threat to you before you shoot? Are you responsible for every single bullet coming out of your gun? Etc.
This is dependent on what state/country you're in.
Fucking spot on...every word.
Bolded and limed for emphasis.
True, if these guys were just out looking for a fight. But, if their intent was a good ol' mugging then they're probably out looking for the easiest target. Fighting back might have resulted in less of an ass whooping, but of course it's a risk. On the other hand, the fetal position defense could also be just as risky.
No, I'm pretty sure fighting back, unless you beat them into submission, would result in them retaliating harder. Good luck beating back four guys, especially if they are of equal/bigger size. Usually the smaller ones carry something to even the playing field.
Again, the fetal position isn't a defense - being aware and running is. If they catch up - do what they say (handing over wallet, what have you) and then run.
It's not a fight back and not get killed art, it's a disable/kill/hurt real bad so you can run and not get killed art. I wouldn't call it an art at all really, and they still focus on escape as the main goal. Knowing krav maga isn't going to teach you to beat up 4 dudes at once. maybe a stomp one guy in the kneecap and run away while the other 3 are staring in shock.
Carrying a weapon isn't always a great idea. it's unfortunate but a concealed weapon is illegal in most places. i want one of those extending batons to keep in my back pocket, but i think they are super illegal. also, if you are going to carry something, know how to use it. there is nothing like bringing a knife to a fist fight, having the knife taken from you, and getting stabbed with it.
If you're properly taught gun safety, respect a gun's inherent danger, and regurlarly practice with it, I would wager the odds of shooting yourself would go down during any regular use, the problem is that during a real life mugging, a lot of that goes out the window. Another problem is that bullets don't always stop in the target, and you may inadverdently kill some poor bastard waiting for the bus just as easily as stopping your would be attacker. I would vote against concealed carry as it really is just asking for trouble, to make matters worse the line of murder and justifiable self defense is incredibly fine, and not one you want to have to make a spit second judgement on.
An MMA style martial art would probably be your best bet, as those are the kind of martial arts that stress hard physical sparring rather than repetition of moves and light sparring, and would easily prepare you for the kind of grappling and grimy fighting that a real world fight would be like. But as already said, it's doubtful you could ever take on 4 dudes at once, even were you one of the best fighters in the world.
With multiple aggressors, what you need is more of a crowd control, and I suspect mace/pepper spray would be enough to at least give you the few needed seconds to get away from a fight.
For some reason I just nerded out and thought:
What you need is crowd-control, or at least someone who can split the pull. Make sure to lay on the debuffs once you engage, and have your DPSers ready to burn once you've locked in aggro. If we get adds, switch to spam heals until we can get them locked down.
God, I'm a nerd.
That's assuming the muggers don't just grab your gun (or pull one of their own) and kill you in an act of what has now become their own self-defense.
Stay out of troublesome areas, get in shape and travel in groups. Bringing a gun into the equation is just asking for things to end very, very badly.