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Marriage counseling
SeñorAmor
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So yeah, the wife and I are going to see a counselor. Things are getting kinda rocky. Having never done this before, I don't really know what to expect. Thoughts? Do these things actually work or am I doomed?
I won't lie, I'm kinda scared.
I won't lie, I'm kinda scared.
SeñorAmor on
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You need to be honest with your wife and the counselor. He/She will recommend things you can do to try and work out your problems, but actually making it work us up to the two of you.
What's making it rocky? I really don't think in the long run that there is anything a councilor is going to do for you that can't be done just by you and your wife talking about it and talking truthfully and openly.
1. Open.
2. Honest.
3. Not defensive.
4. Not offensive (i.e. attacking or saying things because you're angry.)
Therein lies the problem. We've been together for going on 8 years now (married 2.5). My wife is a very selfish person, among other things. We've had many many conversations over the years attesting to that (and the other things) but nothing really has changed. About a month ago, my wife got drunk and said some very hurtful things in front of a mutual friend of ours and I said I wasn't going to take it any more. We had another talk and I essentially ignored her for a week (drastic measure, nothing else seemed to work). I was hoping for some change but I just don't see it. The past month has been very cold and harsh between the two of us, and I finally suggested counseling.
She agreed saying she'll do whatever it takes, but at this point it's no more than a broken record to me. I'm really not holding out hope, and while I realize it's bad to go in with that attitude, I can't really help but feel that way.
She loves me and I love her, but I just don't like her anymore and I'm finding myself falling out of love.
I am very open and honest. I always wear my heart on my sleeve, sometimes to the point where it causes problems. It's just who I am. My wife is very closed. It's extremely difficult to get her to tell me when things are bothering her.
My wife and I are both very defensive, stubborn people, and that causes clashes. If we both believe we're right, we both tend to not back down. The only difference is that I can admit when I am wrong. She cannot. It is a big problem for me when she gets like that.
I don't think either of us are offensive. I have a tendency to walk away from inflamed situations before they get worse, most likely from me not holding back verbally. Aside from my wife's infrequent public outbursts (see previous post), she's quite timid herself.
It's tremendously easy to fall into old patterns (or to maintain them) if there isn't a strong reason to do otherwise, so the success of this counseling would depend largely on how successful the both of you want it to be. You said in the original post that you were scared. However in this most recent post you say that you are falling out of love with your wife and that you don't hold out a lot of hope.
So answer this question, not for me, not for your wife, but for yourself:
Do you want this marriage to continue?
I said I was scared because I don't know what to do if things go sour. She's been my entire life for the better part of a decade now. It's not easy to just let that go and be ok.
At this point I'm no longer sure if I want the marriage to continue because I love her and want to make it work, or because I'm so used to her being there and I don't want that to change.
I realize that probably makes me sound like a huge dick, but I'm really not trying to be.
It makes you sound human.
If breaking up wasn't hard to do... well... there wouldn't be that song about it.
It's important to be honest with yourself (not just with others) and really take a hard look at your situation, your expected chance of improving it, and the consequences of it not improving. It sounds like you have a long row to hoe if you want it to work, and even if you do want it to work, she has to as well.
Fear of change is powerful, very real, and something everyone faces. If you take the reins and do what you know is right for yourself, change is a good thing (not always a fun, easy, or pleasant thing).
We have a house, cars and other expenses that we're obviously sharing (thankfully, no kids), but those can be dealt with. If we were to split, my wife would be absolutely devastated, and while I wouldn't ever do anything to hurt her, I can't bring myself to stay in a relationship where I am not happy.
No no, absolutely not. She was out drinking for a friend's birthday and had a couple too many. A boat we've all been in I'm sure.
You should always put yourself first. Period.
Note, however, that this does not mean you should be self-centered or arrogant, nor should you be frivolous with the decisions you make. What's important is to evaluate how caring for other people affects your life. If you're not happy, you wont be of much help to other people.
If splitting up is the right thing to do, you'll both be devastated. It's not easy. If it's what needs to be done, however, just remember that scars heal, and sometimes you have to cut out the cancer. It will hurt, but the long-term benefit will be removing yourself from a situation that is making you unhappy.
Happiness is exceptionally important. There's no good reason you should suffer for the sake of others (or for yourself).
Staying in a marriage (or any relationship for that matter) for the sake of maintaining the status quo is unfortunately a pretty common and very costly (both in terms of time and money) mistake, but you must be honest with yourself, as difficult as that may be. If you want the marriage to work because you love your wife and enjoy the happiness you bring each other, then by all means strive to recover and maintain that. If, on the other hand, you no longer truly love your wife and are simply going through the motions, you are going to cause more harm than good by dragging things out.
So, what do you want out of marriage counseling? It's not going to teach either of you to be different people. If your wife is (as you say) selfish now, marriage counseling won't change that. It might well cause her to think about it more and she may work on that quality of her own volition, but it's definitely not an overnight thing.
You really must decide for yourself if you love your wife and want this to work or if you are now just with her because the thought of being alone is terrifying to you. If the latter is true, I would ask that you both seriously sit down with each other and just talk everything out. Turn off/unplug the phones, turn off the televisions and set a few hours aside to really hash everything out. Stay as open-minded as possible and really determine what it is that the both of you want out of this marriage. If the love is still there, then by all means continue to work on it. If not, then each day you stay together is a day you are wasting by not beginning the separation and healing process.
In your case, it sounds like you're going to a counselor in order to help because, ultimately, your wife has a problem that you're unable to handle on your own. In situations like this, often a counselor is perfect because your wife can hear and talk to a 3rd party. She may admit things or say things to the counselor that she wouldn't say to you, for whatever reason, even though you're in the same room.
You already say you're an open person, and you did so by telling us exactly what was wrong, and how that made you feel. There's no secret to the counseling sessions -- you tell the counselor just what you told us. Be honest and open, and the counselor will help mediate so that emotions don't get too strong.
Now before you jump down my throat about this:
1) The other woman and I are just friends.
2) The other woman came into the story after my wife and I started having problems
3) While I am attracted to the other woman, I don't believe she'd be good relationship material, based on her dating history.
The reason I bring it up is because I'm quite certain my feelings toward this other woman are influencing my thoughts about my wife. How could they not? The grass is always greener, and all that, right?
I'm conflicted because I don't want a relationship with this other woman. I'm not even entirely sure I would want to sleep with her, if the situation presented itself. I find her unbelievably adorable, and I really like spending time with her (we're both big gamers and into the same activities). So confusing.
Take that wrench, H/A.
Well that's easy, you're not married to the other woman. There's no way of knowing how the two of you would fare without actually being in that relationship, and since you don't appear to want that anyway, it's best to just put that out of your mind.
Comparisons like this are unfair because you're really basing what little you know of this woman against the eight years of experience you've had with your wife. You've seen this woman on social occasions at (you would hope) her best - you've likely seen your wife at her worst. It's easy to romanticize other parties because the mystique of a new/different person is still there. That mystique goes away when you're holding their hair while they vomit into a bucket or inserting a suppository for them because they can't keep anti-nausea medication down.
In short, put her out of your mind. In fact I would go so far as to say you should tell this woman that you won't be speaking with her for a while; that you've got a lot in your life to sort out right now and that you'd be in touch once things level out. If you weren't attracted to her that would be something else, but having someone else around who you are attracted to just puts your wife at an unfair disadvantage when you both want to be as even-handed about this as possible.
I wouldn't pursue another woman, especially before things have been settled (better or worse) with your wife. Most likely, you are seeing greener grass. It's possible there's more to it, but most likely your judgment will be clouded by your current situation, and a new relationship will be very difficult.
You can't have your pudding if you don't eat your meat, as it were.
Settle the situation with your wife. If you can't enjoy the company of this other woman without romantic aspirations, I would advise ending that relationship.
Does the other woman know how you feel? I'm not sure whether telling her would do you any good at this point, but if she does know, that's a great opportunity to tell her you need time to sort things out before you're ready and able to pursue something new.
Done this already. Mystique remains. :-/
I know I shouldn't be comparing, but how can I not?
Please don't misconstrue. I am not actively trying to pursue anything with this other woman. There is a mutual attraction, but you always want what you can't have. Marital problems aside, I am still a married man and would never cheat on my wife.
By realizing how logically poor it is?
Logic plays not in matters of the heart, I'm afraid.
How can you avoid the comparison? By putting this other person out of your life. Not for good, necessarily, but at least long enough until you can sort out your marriage. Even if your marriage were sunshine and lollipops and nothing was wrong, being friends with another woman whom you're attracted to is a serious issue.
Step back from that scenario and remove that dangerous variable from the equation for the moment. Focus on determining the state of your relationship with your wife. Once that's sorted out, you can determine whether or not it's a good idea to start hanging out with this other woman again.
Good. Don't cheat on your wife. Also: Don't hang around with a woman that's causing you to think and feel things which make this situation more complicated than before.
Man does not do well thinking with one organ at a time.
Then you should attempt to have enough self control. I mean - this is what people do all the time - they look at another woman and say, "she's funny, she's smart, she's got all the things I want" and then dump their current significant other for the new person - and then it's always a "shock" when they turn out crazy.
I mean - anyone is going to look better than your significant other if you've gotten to a point where you don't really like them at the moment.
At least it's not my penis doing the thinking.
While that was an implication I intended to add humor to the response, it's not really the point.
Think with your brain!
Your brain, heart and penis should be a trifecta of opinions you balance against each other, not three independent sources of decision-making.
Self control for what? I don't want to nail this other chick. I'm not even looking to start a relationship with her. I'm just attracted to her for some reason and really like spending time with her. We share common interests. I don't think I could date her.
I'm just happy hanging out with her. I am not happy hanging out with my wife at present.
Self control to keep this distraction out of your decision-making process.
She's a distraction.
A pretty, intelligent, witty, fun distraction... but still a distraction.
Well if that's true then she is just a friend, so what's the big deal? You acted like, in your revelation, like it was some huge wrench being thrown into things.
Finding a friend isn't a wrench. If she's more than a friend, or if this attraction extends beyond friendship (kind of antonyms depending on the context), then it's a wrench.
In hindsight, her knowing about/helping me with the problems between me and my wife probably isn't such a good thing, considering the circumstances.
I think what he is getting at is right now he has this awesome female friend and it is just making him more apparent how shitty things are going with his wife. Like a big sign saying "see not all woman are fucked up". I think he is worried that part of his displeasure with his wife comes from these realizations, and that him spending more time with this women might further push a wedge mentally between him and his wife, maybe even if its just by expecting more from her (including more sanity).
Sorta, but this new woman is 10 sorts of crazy when it comes to dating. I'm not looking to pursue a romantic relationship with her, despite the attraction. For starters, she cheated on her last boyfriend. I could never be with a cheater because of the "what if" factor.
Getting advice from someone who, due to their apparent romantic interest in you is likely to give you a biased opinion (ie. "She said what? Oh you don't need that, you deserve better" *hint hint, wink wink, fellate fellate*)? That's not a good idea. But it sounds like you know that now, so that's good.
Male or Female (or other?), it's great to have people you can talk to and help sort things out with yourself. The problem lies in finding yourself attracted to her (it's always tougher with the sex you find attractive), which can cloud your judgment and the way you perceive the situation.
I thinks you protest to much. Seriously I was very particular in staying away from this relationship angle because I thought you might be telling the truth. And it was just that you dealing with her gave you a new prospective on your wife. Now I am thinking you are talking yourself out of wanting to screw her.
Don't be nervous, don't be embarrassed, just answer the counselor's questions and try to treat her/him and your spouse with respect. It's going to be messy and painful and require a lot of hard work, but if you're serious about solving the problems it can be a lifesaver.
Good luck!
Really? Hmm. Well for what it's worth, I don't think I want to sleep with her, in so much as she's a cute little blonde that most guys would probably want to hit, so there's some truth to that element with me, but I know how she deals with guys and it's a turnoff to me, at least sexually. I think.
Little Señor isn't telling me otherwise.
a) I'm sort of shocked by the number of people who have come in and just said "Hey yeah, split up with your wife! Sounds like it's splitsville!"
b) While you may have been honest with your wife, it seems that she may have things that she isn't saying.
My fiancee and I have had counseling, mainly because we often communicate in two separate ways and can both push each others buttons when arguing to make small problems bigger than they are. Our relationship was in no less trouble than yours when we started, but things are now much better. I saw once again the person I fell in love with, which was as much about my perception of her as it was us both working to change our habits.
I felt much the same way as you, thinking that if we were resorting to counseling, then that meant our relationship was doomed, regardless of how much we love each other. Truthfully, when we argue badly, I still feel that way (but that, I think, is normal for most relationships). The way I think about it is that we were trying to build a house with only a hammer: we had all the will in the world to do it, but we needed more to build something strong, and counseling gave us those tools to communicate more effectively.
So, as someone said right at the beginning, counseling does work, or they wouldn't offer it. Yes, it is scary, but no, it isn't the end if you don't want it to be. There must have been a good reason for you to stick with this girl for 8 years, and maybe that reason has gone, but maybe it hasn't and it's been obscured by some behavior that can be worked on and fixed. Either way, I think you owe it to both of you guys to try it out.
All that said, if she doesn't take it seriously and honestly, then she isn't taking you seriously and honestly, and you really need to think through your options.