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If you are not in it then it is more or less impossible for her to be in it.
Do the manly thing, step up and tell her that it's over.
Its gonna hurt you both for awhile, but in the end everyone will be better off.
Good and good.
1 more question: did your wife gain wieght since you have been married?
If you were in love with her once, why is it impossible to think that it could happen again?
Don't you see the cycle?
-At some point you became less affectionate.
-At some point she became "naggy and condescending" when voicing to you what she wanted.
Both of these things perpetuated the other, regardless of which came first.
-When she nags, you become less affectionate.
-When you aren't affectionate, she starts nagging.
By the way, I don't know does not mean no. It means I don't know.
My wife lost weight since we've been married. About 50 pounds or so. It's been very good for her self esteem.
I think it's unlikely I will fall back in love with her because of how much I resent her. I feel that if I go back to things as they were (to an extent), that it will be another instance of me giving in. The counselor actually agreed with me on this one.
I believe you're misunderstanding the "cycle" as you put it. My wife has always been naggy and condescending. I became less affectionate a few months ago when she had her outburst in the car. The straw that broke the camel's back, as it were.
I specifically asked her if I had always been not affectionate enough and she told me that it began when we started having problems recently.
Yet you fell in love with her despite this. What changed it for you? When did the nagginess overcome your love for her?
I guess I thought I could just deal with it. In reality, I guess I was building up animosity without realizing it, and her outburst in the car tipped the scales. Having dealt with it for so long, I suppose I kinda just got used to it and dismissed it.
*Edit*
Now that I think about it, our frequent talks about it (and lack of resolution) probably also added to the animosity. I'm not sure why it took me so long to act on it. I'm rather pissed at myself for letting it go on so long.
As a bonus, you will probably come out the other side knowing what you want out of your partner, knowing how to ask for that, and knowing how to give back when the other party asks in return for something that they want.
Do you resent her or do you resent the way you've been treated?
Maybe. Maybe.
I'm not sure there's exclusivity between the two.
I see someone in a hard place, and I have sympathy for that, but I also see it is a place created by themselves, under pressure they created. These are the kinds of holes you reach down and help people out of, and the second they hit firm ground they start digging down, all over again. Is it really worth it? What good will it do?
I don't know. I suppose sometimes these situations are most useful when left as warning signs to others. So what the hell happened?
Our story begins...
Part the First, in which Senor asks a Hard Question resembling an Easy One.
Yes. Love puts the other person first. It trusts that any effort, discomfort or sacrifice in doing so will be returned. It has faith that the person being loved is doing something similar, and although these gifts are given without a specific expectation of return, if this effort is veiwed as one-way for too long, it becomes more and more personally challenging to invest in that other person.
'Yes' is the easy short answer, because we assume you are talking about a person you love. It's an easy assumption to make, that you love your wife. Given that love puts the other person first, and that you already know this is true, the question you're actually asking here is 'Am I still in love with my wife?' which is a good question. The decision to put yourself first, no matter what, is the same decision to make that answer a 'no'.
So you've already decided that your wife is not worth a continued investment on your part. You are worried, because socially speaking through marriage, you have a vow and obligation to do so, and have decided to break that vow and commitment. You are worried about the social fallout for doing so. Many people will view this decision as 'wrong' or 'selfish', and this new person could be one of them. Like all people, you don't want to see yourself as a bad person.
One coping mechanism taken to provide a sense of self-righteousness when it has been damaged, is to come up with a suitable explanation or excuse to justify the wrong-doing, to broaden the veiw, so that the action seems 'right' or at the very least, normal or understandable by the social majority.
For example:
Is a statement that puts individual happiness above previous dedication and commitment, and attempts to provide some justification for ceasing your effort to uphold your word. If you believe this statement is true, and there are many who do, then it may go a ways in easing your discomfort and feelings of personal failure.
In an opposing view, some people recognize you cannot be happy all of the time, and that 'happiness' may be overrated as the absolute be-all and end-all of feelings. To some, coping well with household responsibilities, being financially secure, having stability or predictablity more be considerably more important. Few people are actually content with what they have, which is why the drive exists to better ourselves and our situations. Navigating the balance is a different road for everybody.
Part the Second, in which Friendship plays a role in Marriage
I often compare love to a kind of chemical imbalance. Neurologically speaking, its not far off. The feeling of love cycles, it ebbs and flows, it gets taken for granted, and it dims over time as you get used to it. During the times when chemically or emotionally, love is at a low, being good freinds with that person carries you through to the next cycle. Many people in happy marriages comment that thier other is also thier best freind, and that platonic freindship is a critical part of maintaining a relationship in the long term.
In this part of the situation, you have chosen to emotionally abandon your wife in favour of starting a new freindship with someone else. You have taken the bond of freindship you used to have, and put it somewhere else. Because she is more comfortable to talk to and one-off from the situation, you can talk about the things that bother you about your wife and your life more easily.
This action lessens the 'need to talk' about your problems, and so in your relationship with your wife, where communication is more difficult, these problems go unstated and un-talked about. By moving your problems within the home to a person outside of your home, you are betraying the bond of emotional privacy and commitment. You have given another person preferential treatment over your wife, because it is easier to do so than confront the challenges personally at home.
The act of becoming closer to someone other than your spouse in this way is often referred to as 'emotional adultery' because you have chosen to express yourself to that other person in a way the undermines and takes away from your primary relationship. It is quite common, and often underplayed because of a lack of sexual context. Nevertheless, these types of relationships are important to recognize because of the wide spread damaging effects they have on the primary relationship.
Much like a sex drive, people have a 'talk drive', a need for intimate (private, meaningful, and detailed, not necessarily sexual) communication. Having this need met elsewhere lessens the drive within the relationship, and betrays the emotional bond, much like having sex elsewhere lessens the drive and betrays the sexual relationship.
This is what was meant when this came up:
I hope the above provides some understanding of that concept in general, as it is important to understand; in this relationship or your next one. Taking the easy way out, the one that seems more comfortable, makes those things which are naturally challenging even more so.
In general, it is recognized, at least cognitivally, that when you commit to a monogamous relationship, that you are eventually going to meet someone who is more compatible than the person you are with. That person represents the easy road. The test of character is to face that challenge appropriately and well. It is a defining moment. It is easy to be a good person when the options to be bad are unavailble or unpleasent. It is hard to be good when letting your values slip make life so much easier to deal with, or even simply being unaware of a situation until too late, when it is hard work to get out of.
It doesn't make much difference to me what kind of man you are, or just how much effort you are willing to put into standing up for what you personally beleive is right. But it will make a difference to you, now and for the rest of your life. So it's a good time to ask yourself the question. What kind of man are you? When you say you're a good person, and that you put effort into doing what you know to be right, is that true? Or do you just say words and then act however you want when things get hard? Anybody can say things, its up to you to make them true.
Again, you are who you are, and whatever you choose is just an expression of that. I'm not saying theres a right and wrong for you, I'm just saying there's an 'is', and that maybe you should think about what your 'is' is.
Part the Third, in which Sarcastro is kind of a Bastard, and Games are Played
This... is an excellent defensive wall. It's awesome. A query about your faults lets you place the blame back on your wife for not being specific enough. A request for change goes unheard because it hasn't been suggested or phrased in a 'meaningful' way to you. You seek validation in a decision you've already made, under guise of asking about that decision.
I am tired of being neutral at this specific moment, so from this * asterisk to the next one, I am going to be aggressive. If you have grains of salt nearby, please take them, because its more of a learning exercise than any real emotional response on my part.
Liar. Everything you've just said is a lie. You want so bad to be good here that you are promoting the opposite of what is actually true to be the armor against what you believe to be true. A pre-emptive block. You say these things because of social pressure, actively protecting it's exact opposite:
Keep this statement in mind and re-read all your posts. You tell me which one fits better and is closer to the truth.
*
Just an exercise. They say that people become so used to the cover stories they tell, that they forget the truth. I tend to agree. Quite often anger has a way of making us reveal the truth, to ourselves and others. I think mostly its because we have such fear over revealing our true intentions, because others will judge us. Anger makes the fear go away.
I don't really think you've been intentially untruthful of course, only that people give face to the side of the issue they want people to see, and neglect the ugly part of the same issue they don't want people to see. Both sides are true, and part of the whole. Like I said, it's just an exercise. One you've been trying to get your wife to play, if I'm not mistaken:
So again, she is giving face to the side she wants to present, because the truth as a whole is unpleasent and frightening. She wants to show that despite whatever problems, there is still a place and a choice to be positive. It is the other side to what she is feeling, but part of the whole. I hope you can see that such a way can hold as much truth as anything else.
For her it is a double sided issue. Lets look at yours:
But as we've seen, this reversal exists in everyone. Her, me, you, us, them. 'Hypocrite' is a perjorative, an ugly, insulting word. What we've got here is simple ambiguity. Torn in both directions. Feeling two things, choosing to express one of them.
Something to consider: When your wife is being pleasent, even though she feels troubled and insecure, she is putting herself aside and choosing to put you and the larger situation first. You say this never happens, but clearly, it does, you simply have blinders on- refusing to acknowledge when it happens so that your position remains justified.
I'm not going to say that there is a balance there, or that you're not giving more than you receive- I'm not there. But I can say that your willful ignorance is obvious even in your own words and description of the situation. You are making a choice to not see things from her perspective, and choosing not to appreciate the gifts you're being given in return.
If you undervalue what you're given, and exaggerate what you're giving in return, then it is only a matter of time before an imbalance is proven out. But does that imbalance really exist? Or did you create it by means of selective perception? Are you in fact, making the problem worse by refusing to contribute anything further?
Through your eyes it will seem as though things have gone awry and you are giving away the world and getting nothing back. I can say without hesitation, that if she were to choose to see things in the same way, she would feel equally neglected with the same set of actions. Your gifts become undervalued, and hers become exaggerated- and soon everybody is miserable despite claims they are giving it thier all.
Part the Fourth, in which A Freindship is Questioned, and Expectations are Voiced Quietly
A brief collection of statements surrounding the state of the freindship in the relationship:
And probably the most enlightening exchange:
Ouch.
So previously, it was mentioned that you dropped the friendship you had with your wife in favor of someone easier to get along with. Friendship building, or 'quality time', is an active effort on behalf of two people to work together to accomplish certain tasks. Sometimes you work to build intimacy, sometimes to cordinate schedules or make a new garden path. Whatever the goal, friends make an effort to understand each other, work together and help each other.
For whatever reason, you've decided that you don't like being friends with your wife anymore. Also, you have other freinds that are easier to get along with. You spend time with them instead of your wife, because its simple, comfortable, and easier to do.
In what ways are you being a good freind to your wife? Do you make an effort to get along? Do you forgive the little quirks, and steer things towards their strong suit? Do you let go of the things that annoy or irritate you and accept them for who they are? Do you reserve or refrain from judgement? Are you willing to meet them halfway? Do you make an effort to spend time with them?
The comment on 'quality time' is a statement that she thinks the friendship between the two of you is failing, and she would like to make an effort to be good freinds again. She want time with her to be fun, talking to be meaningful and easy, and more importantly leave you with a desire to spend more time with her.
With your girl-friend, you like talking, you spend time doing things together. You have meaningful conversations. When you are done spending time, there is an expectation you'll spend more time together later. It's enjoyable. One thing leads naturally into the next- thats what freindship is.
You view the time you spend with your wife as a chore. An obligation. Something that you should probably do, that needs doing, and so you put in the time. Time served. Then you look forward to early release through good behaivior. You don't want to spend time, and so you don't bother to think of things you can do together. It's the last thing on your mind, because you don't really like it, and there are other things you enjoy thinking about more.
Not to be inflammatory, but you're being a pretty shitty friend to your wife. You're being shitty, and you're placing the blame on her for it. Sure, maybe you don't find her as interesting as you used to (because you already know everything about her) and maybe you think she's a pain to hang out with, but that is not a good enough reason to betray her trust. You've never had to be freinds with someone you thought you didn't like? Boo hoo. She's family. If you knew for an absolute fact that you'd be spending your life in a cage with this person, you'd make every effort to get along.
You're excusing your behaivor because you think you can option out and that cage will open. And I guess it sort of does these days, so hooray for a complete lack of accountability. It's awesome that we can treat whomever however and nobody will ever smack us around and tell us different. After all, just because you gave your word doesn't mean you have to keep it, and nobody on this green earth can make you.
Indeed:
Even when told something positive to do, you refuse, based on second-guessing. The idea of 'going through the motions' is not just some fake it till you make it strategy. Frankly, when you decided to stop doing anything for your wife ever, you decided then and there to sabotage the remainder of your relationship. That decision will only make things worse and not better, as slowly your wife gains no returns and stops doing things for you. Despite claims, I guarentee there are things, and that she is doing them. You may not recognize or appreciate these things, but I would bet money they are there.
The idea of providing returns, even if you don't 'feel it' is to keep the back and forth going while you repair your relationship. This is an effort done in good faith, under the assumption you genuinely want things to improve. You on the other hand, are being disingenious, and are not acting in good faith. Because you lost faith. Repairing the relationship doesn't seem to appeal to you.
Counselling is not likely to work as long you keep presenting a false front to your counsellor. Lay it on the line. You're so worried about how things are going to look that you're missing both the point and the opportunity. Being truthful about your situation allows the consellour to deal with it effectively, and there are different strategies for different situations.
Think about this, because my picture here has you painted unpleasently. It suggests that you are being false to your counsellour and giving them bullshit so that what they have to say and have you do will not work. They will spend time addressing the wrong problem, and when it all falls apart you can finger point and say 'haha, you fools, I knew it wasn't going to work anyway'. That maybe you're not looking for help, you're looking for a guilt-free pass to Splitsville. Head's up, because that color stains particularly well, and oftens bleeds through primer and basecoat.
I like how you present this as if there was some kind of unclarity as to what you've decided. At least its mostly honest. You don't want to be seen by friends and family as that douche who just gave up one day because things got a little rough. The preferred viewing is 'the guy who tried everything, but things just didn't work out'. I know which one I'd want; your stance is very understandable.
Thing about something like this, is that the truth will come out. If you don't want to be seen as that guy, you've got just one option. Don't be that guy. Otherwise, make your peace with option A, because undoubtedly, as it stands, many people in your circle will see things that way. You might talk some good shit, you can cover your tracks, you can pin the blame, but people have a feeling for the truth, so make sure the truth is something you can be proud of.
Part the Fifth, in which Blamethrowers are Primed and Ready
I would like, in the interests of good story-telling and happy endings, for those statements to be true. It would be quite cool if you thought they were true also.
It's the only glimmer of light I've seen in this whole tragedy, and I suppose it's why I would even bother writing up the story itself.
So here's the gist: Once upon a time you were deeply in love with this girl who loved you back. You hoped the little things that bothered you about her would go away, but they haven't. Dissapointment turns into bitterness, and you wish you didn't have to feel that way anymore. All the little things that bother you grind and rub you raw. You want to be willing to change, because fair is fair, and you secretly hope she will see your effort and be willing to change herself. She wasn't, or least she didn't in the way you were hoping, and now you're wondering if you should just cut your losses and invest elsewhere.
You think it's her responsibility to change into a more comfortable fit for you, and you also think it's her responsibility to define her expectations for you.
But she can't. And that's frustrating.
Whenever somebody is dealing with a frustrating situation, there is a short checklist to follow.
Firstly, can you yourself do what you are asking, provide a living example and simple explanation on how to do so?
Secondly, have you made your expectations clear and provided the tools and support required?
Thirdly, is what you are asking of that person possible and within the realm of reason?
If the answer to any of these questions is 'no', then you are expecting the impossible, and dissapointment will be your reward. More to the point, when you ask for the impossible, the failure to provide success is the fault of the asker not the provider.
To bring it all together, you want the rewards of trust and intimacy, but you have no trust, are not acting in good faith, and are chronically undermining your intimacy. You're not good enough friends with your wife to have honest and meaningful dialogue, and you both lack the tools to sufficiently describe and attain your expectations. When placed in a situation to attain those tools, you inadvertently/purposefully sabotaged the effort as a whole.
It is unsurprising that the situation continues to degrade.
Part the Sixth, in which Sarcastro just wants People to Be Happy.
Things that would need doing:
1. Clean slate. Seems like you think you've got all this debt built up, and now she owes you. Let it go. If you want to make an honest go of it, make a go. Leave this 'should I give it another go?' bs behind. Decide to reinvest. If you're not honest in the attempt, failure is the only option.
2. Treat her like your best friend. If you've got better friends, kick thier asses out the door until she's at the top of the list. Enough of this grass is greener bullshit. You keep the greenest grass right under your feet, and simply refuse to see any other goddamn grass. There is always grass that could be greener. That's not relevant. What is relevant is taking care of what you've got well enough to be the greenest.
3. Forgive. There isn't a cap on chances. Forgiveness doesn't mean scott free, it means explaining why you felt hurt, and an ask to be more careful. Then, it means making an effort to make something positive together to make up for that lost opportunity. When you neutralize your losses in this way, it ensures that the positives build on themselves.
4. Be more aware. If you were exceptionally dumb, you might have an excuse to have things spelled out for you. You are not. Learn how to read between the lines. Make an effort to read between the lines. It's easier to ignore little hints if they aren't spelled out, but that doesn't mean those hints aren't real, honest requests- this is a skill, and like any skill, it needs practice to grow. To say that things are not being expressed is a bullshit excuse not to listen. Everything is being expressed, learning non-verbals and paying attention to what is being danced around or unsaid is just as important as expecting words.
5. Let it go. There are all kinds of things in this world you can't change or control. Don't let them bother you. Just deal with what is, right now. Keep that perspective in mind. One of the things you can't change is the past. If you start getting caught up in things that have happened in the past, see step 1, Clean Slate.
Just a beginning on making an honest effort, certainly not an all inclusive list.
Part the Seventh, in Which There is a TL;DR for Light Readers:
There's that saying in moral dillema's, that if you have to stop and ask yourself if something is right or a good idea, it's probably not. The same thing applies to genuine life-long commitments. If you have to ask whether or not you should try and keep going, you probably should. When it's actually time to quit, it wont be a question.
*standing ovation*
Exactly what this thread has needed.
Seriously, I propose we just round up a bunch of his posts and put it as a sticky thread for break ups.
See how many books I've read so far in 2010
Unfortunately for Senor, that person can't be me, because I do agree with pretty much everything Sarcastro said. Maybe it's because I'm a needy person; my own marriage hasn't been through many pitfalls yet, but if it ever gets into nightmare territory I'm sure I'm going to be the one to stay and my wife will be the one to leave. It takes two to tango, but one to let go.
Senor, the only thing I want to say to you is that if you weren't "emotionally cheating" on your wife with this other woman, then you were on the verge of it. I've been in similar places in relationships, and I've acted on it. From my experience, I can say that the grass is never greener; you just end up jumping from rock to rock (not to mix metaphors). Each new one is thrilling and interesting until you run out of stories to tell and new experiences to share, and that's when the relationship really begins in earnest. Alfie's dad said that every time you meet a beautiful woman, just remember that somewhere there's a man that's sick of shagging her. While I don't necessarily agree with the statement, I can understand the tone: it's easy when all there is is good.
I'm in a good place with my wife, and our rough patches have lasted days at the very worst. I don't know if love can ever recover to the good place I'm in now after it goes as bad as yours has, so I can't scold you for not trying harder; maybe all you can do is make your situation livable, and that's not an appealing option. I would say though that you should really try to make it work and see for yourself if it can change to something better; you haven't tried everything yet. You've stayed through years of grief where you've remained basically quiet about it and tried to turn the other cheek. Now that you've had an inevitable and understandable tantrum, give yourself another year or two to make sure things really are unfixable. You made a promise to love this woman and stay with her for the rest of your life, and I would say you owe her that much.
edit: Ok...what Sarc said.
Thanks for taking the time and I hope SenorAmor gets as much from it (hopefully more) as I did.
Falling out of love with your spouse happens sometimes, and if you're at the point where you've tried everything that you're willing to do it's perfectly reasonable to say "I'M DONE" and get out as quickly and as painlessly as you can. When you push yourself or your spouse past that limit is when things start to get really ugly, with people hating one another and communicating only through lawyers. And nobody really wants that, regardless of how irritating or naggy your partner has been. But again, it is really up to SA to decide where he is along that spectrum of possibilities and how he wants to work through it.
I don't think it's selfish to want to be happy.
That isn't the point. The point is, the OP is refusing to take any responsibility for the state of his marriage. Frankly, at this point I could not have a lower opinion of him as a person.
He refuses to work on the marriage, but he's too much of a coward to end it and save him and her the grief of this extended sham that is a counseling session. And why should he get counseling? He's perfect. She's the one that never tells him how she's feeling or what she wants, except when she does, in which case it doesn't matter to the OP anyway.
If you go back and look at the beginning of this thread, you'll see that I've posted pretty clearly my thoughts about how SA should make a concerned effort to work at his marriage. I'm not advocating that he should get off scott-free by not even trying to work things out, so please calm thyself. And honestly, the other thread where the dude was e-banging the 20 year old was an order of magnitude more despicable than this.
I am sitting at the other end of this situation, where my ex and I went to counseling for months and we both made the hard choices to work on our relationship rather than just say "Fuck it" right away. And then it happened, we reached our limits, pushed them quite a bit and were forced to say "I'M DONE" rather than tear each others throats out.
So yes, absolutely he should work on his marriage, I never said he should bail right now. Just that at some point in the future you have may have to realize it isn't working and you can't force it to. Conversely, they may do the complete opposite, work through their differences and live happily ever after and SA, I really hope that's the case.
Read the bolded part, then use that to realize just how different your relationship is from the OPs.
The counseling session is only a sham because the OP is making it one.
Clearly you have not read a single thing I've said and that's all the response I'm giving to your post.
I've read everything you've written in this thread.
I don't think you have enough knowledge of either of them, or what's going on in the counseling session to really be able to say that definitively.
Well, that's not true. He said:
Seems to be a pretty clear indicator that he admits some fault and is interested in helping his wife communicate with him better, which qualifies as working on the marriage.
Also, this:
shows that he has realistic, if cautious expectations at the outcome of said counseling.
Unfortunately, I don't have enough time to hit it poiny by point, let alone format it right, but here's some food for thought:
...and, from the account given, it has been one-way for a while.
The only reason you have a problem with him doing this is because he is male. You can be damn sure that she is talking about everything with her girlfriends, and probably pitching for advice from men as well.
What? Really? You're going to pull the "things were better in the old days card, when marriage was sacrosanct and you never looked at another woman twice, no siree!" card? Divorce rates aren't at 50% because all people are assholes and don't realize they're in a cage for eternity, they're at 50% because we live in a society that now sees it as being OK to be happy and doing what it takes to make you happy. Being in an unhappy marriage isn't one of them. What needs to happen is people get married less and after more time together, not more people staying together for the sake of a ring. There isn't even a child involved here. Exactly who is being hurt, apart from Amor and his wife?
I think you're confusing Amor's obvious inaction as meaning he is obviously being an asshole. He may be, he may not. But he has given up, and he seems to have given up a long time ago. The reason why he isn't doing anything is because he gave up.
His feelings, resentment and perspective of his wife is seems to be at an irrevocable point. I think the only chance he has left of his marriage staying together is for them both to take an extended break (like 3 months) in the hope that one or both of them will get the perspective they need to realize how much they miss the things they fell in love with each other for in the first place.
And if that doesn't happen, then it's probably time to call it a day. It's not great, but it is OK.
Most people don't want to put in the work it takes to repair a relationship that has gone down a different path than what was expected when both parties said 'I do'.
Counseling, learning to communicate and learning to accept your faults is hard work and most people, IN MY OPINION, don't have it in them to give it a try.
"hmm, I could go to 12 weeks of counseling, hear from the counselor that I'm not really perfect, and have to learn to actually listen and talk to my SO or I can just ask for a divorce and then I can play WoW whenever I want to. hmmm...TIME TO LEVEL MY PALADIN! WOOT!"
Are you saying because no one outside the marriage is getting hurt, that there is no point in staying together?
How about the simple fact that the husband and wife are being hurt?
Listen, they were in love at some point and because neither of them knows how to communicate, their marriage is failing. This isn't a tragedy. They can come back from this and I dare say they will be much stronger for it.
They both need to want it, however, and has been stated, most everyone thinks the OP doesn't and is just going through the motions.
No, if you read what you quoted, I said that Amor and his wife are being hurt, but they're hurting more by staying together, in what appears to be a loveless marriage, than by being apart. Them splitting would not be tearing apart anyone but themselves, but it's better than staying in a marriage where neither party is willing to work for anything.
Male or female has nothing to do with it, that issue applies to both sides. If she were posting instead of him, it would be focused on her issues instead.
Absolutely not. No one, from either side, is going to look good in this situation. This kind of thing is so mind-numbingly soul-crushingly difficult, that even the best of it is going to look ugly. It'll turn a good man inside out. IMHO, I would say that good men actually fare the worst, because good habits steer thier lives away from this kind of deeply impacting situation, and they may not have developed the tools to handle the negativity they experience in themselves, others and the situation at large. They are used to doing the right thing, and having thier thoughts and feelings be the correct course of action. A good man all twisted up on the inside doesn't realize that his way of being has become compromised, and will walk a false path without question because thier track record tells them they usually have the right of it.
I'm not even saying thats the case here, just that it could be. I've got nothing but sympathy and support for Amor, and I feel he deserves a huge length of slack for however he appears to be dealing with things. We only see the tip of the iceberg, he's got to carry the whole damn thing. I might say 'this action causes this' but I'm not going to touch a judgement of character with a ten foot pole.
I've been where he is, and I've always wished someone had just fed it to me straight. He can get cuddles and soothing self-affirmation from his mom. My own contribution is going to be somewhat different.
Now here I sit crying. Part of me is relieved, part of me hates myself for making her upset, and there you have it.
Is there a really good friend or family you can go and stay with? I think being alone is going to make things worse.
I think that if you don't go out and actually try and fix it then you are a fool and will regret it for the rest of your life.
Now quit wasting our god damn time and go do it, or else I will sit here in a huff of impotent internet rage!
but they're listening to every word I say
Why all the sympathy? Hell, I'll say it... congrats OP. May all your dreams come true.
You've wrote a lot of dick things in this thread, but this one is really the icing on the cake.
Just because Amor "got what he wanted" doesn't mean it isn't going to hurt a lot.
I'd suggest shutting the hell up until you have to deal with anything anywhere close to this, then you are welcome to make all the dick comments you want.
Oh, I apologize for not coddling the guy who came in having already given up on his marriage. You fucking type about how important marriage is, and how it means something, and then fucking shower sympathy on the guy who never cared in the first place? Fine, go ahead, but telling the OP it's okay, he doesn't have to try because it really is all his wife's fault isn't help or advice, it's just fucking stupid.
Oh, and obligatory you don't know anything about me blah blah blah.
You're a child. I might not know you, but I do know that if you'd ever had a serious long-term relationship, you would know how hard it is, and wouldn't say shit like this.
They've both been to blame, so throwing insults at SenorAmor now does nothing about from puff your ego about how you would be such a better husband.
So yeah, he does deserve our sympathy, just like she does.
Best of luck to you.