Adding XFX HD4850 to a HTPC - It fits!

Mr_Grinch

Hey folks.

I'm massively out of the loop with PC hardware so I need some advice. I recently put together a HTPC which is running great. Dual Core 2.3ghz, 4gb ram and current graphics card is an onboard Nvidia 9300 which is doing fantastic for 1080p MKV (the main reason for me having the system).

For games it's been doing ok, I can play most I've tried on medium but I haven't tried anything really intensive. I spotted an XFX HD4890 512mb for £80ish online and debated upgrading, though I have some reservations:

- Currently the machine runs nice and cool (and quiet). I'd like to keep it this way. Would adding this card considerably up the heat and/or noise?
- HDMI Audio/Video. At present my Audio and Video go via HDMI to my surround sound and from there to the tv. I'd actually rather use the Audio out on the motherboard to output 7.1 to the surround sound and use the seperate video out on the HD4890 to output to the tv. The reason behind this is that the video output on the Surround Sound tends to mess with the signal, it doesn't cope well with the full RGB range and I have to choose with either losing some detail in colours or having the image flicker off when there's too much white on screen. So yeah, could I output audio from the hdmi on the mboard and video from the hd4890?
- Is this actually a good card? I don't play that many games but I'd like to have the option to in future.

Thanks guys, any suggestions/comments thoroughly welcome.

Daedalus

1) Yes it would. You see that gigantic cooler on it? It's there for a reason. Also, be aware that this is a big fucking card and if your case is very cramped, it may well not even fit.

2) You can output sound from the audio jacks on the motherboard, or through HDMI on the graphics card, at your option, by going into your sound settings and switching which output device is default.

3) It is a fantastic card. However, the Radeon 4850 is a good deal cheaper, generates less heat, and is still a damn good card, so if you don't do a lot of gaming you might want to go for it instead.

lowlylowlycook

I didn't even know that there were 4890s with less than 1G of memory.

On top of what Daedalus has said, I'd want to point out that you'd be going from onboard video to one of the fastest video cards on the market. There would be no comparison between what your getting now and that card.

If you are even somewhat happy with that onboard chip's performance and you care about heat generation then I'd consider an ATI 4770 which has similar performance to an 4850 but draws less power. Sadly ATI is having trouble making these fast enough so they can be hard to find.

If you have a smallish case you'll want o check out exactly which cards will fit in there. A lot of "gamer" cards take up two slots and some are quite long as well.

Also you'll want to check out the details of your powersupply. Not so much the total watts but you'll want to know how many amps it puts out over the 12V rails. If you know the make/model then we could look it up.

SMDC

The next-gen directX 11 cards are supposedly coming out sometime soon, which should be accompanied by price drops of current gen cards. If you're willing to wait, you might be able to get a better deal. They usually launch new cards from the top down though, so probably best not to expect many new lower end HTPC cards to come out very soon.

Mr_Grinch

Cheers for the help up to now guys, sorry I've been a bit slow on replying, this totally slipped my mind. Current details of PC are:

Intel Core 2 Duo E7400 2.8GHz Socket 775 1066MHz FSB 3MB L2 Cache Retail Boxed Processor
XFX GeForce 9300 Socket 775 onboard graphics 8 channel audio mATX Motherboard
Extra Value 400W MATX PSU - 1x SATA, 20+4pin
Crucial 4GB (2X2GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 Ballistix Memory CL4 2.0V
Black MATX Media Center Case With Brushed Aluminium Front Panel - No PSU

Details of the case are: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/135497

I'm not too bothered about super fast gaming performance, a bit more oomph would be nice but not really that essential. One of the things I am keen on though is having two HDMI outs on this machine, the motherboard for audio and a new video card for video. I'm getting really annoyed routing the HDMI video through my amp as it's doing funny things.

lowlylowlycook

Mr_Grinch wrote: »

Cheers for the help up to now guys, sorry I've been a bit slow on replying, this totally slipped my mind. Current details of PC are:

Intel Core 2 Duo E7400 2.8GHz Socket 775 1066MHz FSB 3MB L2 Cache Retail Boxed Processor
XFX GeForce 9300 Socket 775 onboard graphics 8 channel audio mATX Motherboard
Extra Value 400W MATX PSU - 1x SATA, 20+4pin
Crucial 4GB (2X2GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 Ballistix Memory CL4 2.0V
Black MATX Media Center Case With Brushed Aluminium Front Panel - No PSU

Details of the case are: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/135497

I'm not too bothered about super fast gaming performance, a bit more oomph would be nice but not really that essential. One of the things I am keen on though is having two HDMI outs on this machine, the motherboard for audio and a new video card for video. I'm getting really annoyed routing the HDMI video through my amp as it's doing funny things.

Unless you want to track down a new powersupply I'd go with a ATI 4770 card. Does it even have a PCI-E connector?

Mr_Grinch

I'm so out of touch I didn't even realise most PCI-E cards needed a power connector. I'll open up the case tomorrow but I'm pretty sure it doesn't have a pci-e connector.

(I stopped PC Gaming shortly after I picked up a Voodoo 1 so forgive my ignorance)

That said I'm not against picking up a new power supply. My main concern is heat + noise.

How is the 4770 for hardware acceleration when it comes to x264 content?

Kriz

In an HTPC you probably have a Micro-ATX size motherboard; it may not even fit on there with all the other components, let alone fit in the case.

There are low-profile cards meant for HTPCs. Maybe not as powerful as the 4890, but certainly modern enough to play some games.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102829

Mr_Grinch

Opening the case I think it'd be a tight fit. See pic below.



The gap from the front of the case to the back is about 9" (just). I have a friend with a 4850 who's going to lend me it to see what the fit is like. That said though I'll still have to get a new power supply or would one of these do:



Or does the 400w supply not have enough oomph behind it?

Thanks for the help, I am also researching this on google but I'm so out of touch with things it's making it difficult.

::edit:: Fuck it, looking at all the websites it seems I'd need to upgrade the psu AND it'd be a real squeeze in the case not to mention the noise. I think I'll go with your suggestion Kriz and just get something like you linked.

Is the HD 4650 likely to give better performance than my current onboard nvidia 9300?

Stormwatcher

Mr_Grinch wrote: »

I'm so out of touch I didn't even realise most PCI-E cards needed a power connector. I'll open up the case tomorrow but I'm pretty sure it doesn't have a pci-e connector.

(I stopped PC Gaming shortly after I picked up a Voodoo 1 so forgive my ignorance)

That said I'm not against picking up a new power supply. My main concern is heat + noise.

How is the 4770 for hardware acceleration when it comes to x264 content?

Man we have to fix that ASAP.

lowlylowlycook

According to this, a reference 4770 is 8 1/4 inches long.

Mr_Grinch

Stormwatcher wrote: »

Mr_Grinch wrote: »

I'm so out of touch I didn't even realise most PCI-E cards needed a power connector. I'll open up the case tomorrow but I'm pretty sure it doesn't have a pci-e connector.

(I stopped PC Gaming shortly after I picked up a Voodoo 1 so forgive my ignorance)

That said I'm not against picking up a new power supply. My main concern is heat + noise.

How is the 4770 for hardware acceleration when it comes to x264 content?

Man we have to fix that ASAP.

I'm trying, I'm trying. I've been playing Trine on the PC recently and Secret of Monkey Island if that helps at all

I went off it because it involved sitting upstairs in a cramped room with crappy speakers and a small monitor. Now I have my HTPC, a 42" tv and an awesome 7.1 I'm a little more inclined to return

I think my plan, for now, is to upgrade to the hd4650 as it won't involve a PSU upgrade (which I can little afford at the mo) then when I have more cash upgrade to a better graphics card.

Daedalus

In all likelihood, the 4850 will work with a 400W PSU and the appropriate adapter, assuming it fits in your case. I mean, I'm running it with a 500W PSU and I've got an overclocked Core 2 Duo.

Mr_Grinch

I could just throw it in and hope for the best I'll get an adapter and give it a go.

Daedalus

Make sure it fits first, though, and keep in mind that the power plug for it is annoyingly on the end of the card opposite the DVI jacks.

Stormwatcher

the 4850 is really good for gaming too.

Daedalus

It really is; I've just upgraded my monitor to a 1080p TV and I'm still getting good framerates in all the games I was playing, although I haven't fired up Crysis with it yet.

Stormwatcher

oh, yeah, that one. It runs fine, but not at max settings.

Dark Shroud

Just to throw this out there an ATI HD 4670 is also pretty good for HTPCs. It doesnt's require a power connection and it can output a full 7.1 through the HDMI if you get the right card. You would have to get one with 1gig of GDR3 to match the performance of the HD 4770's 512mb of GDR5. It's still a good deal and cheaper than a HD4850 considering DX11 isn't supposed to be backwards compatible hardware wise.

One is currently on sale for $70 with free shipping:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102842

I'm installed a HD 4670 512mb card in a friend's PC as a budget card for them and they love it. It runs flawlessly with Win7.

Mr_Grinch

Further question!

I'm likely going to have memory issues whichever route I go aren't I?

I'm running Windows XP (32bit) at the moment, I've found it best with MediaPortal, I tried Win 7 but had horrible issues with codecs and I don't have a Vista licence.

With 4gb of RAM I'm likely only going to see 3gb of that due to a 1gb Graphics Card right?

If so it might be time for me to think about picking up a 64bit Vista licence or give Windows 7 another go.

::Edit:: Also cheers for the link but I'm in the UK. I can find a 1gb 4670 for about £50 over here. Due to sudden finance changes I think that's the route I'm going

Mr_Grinch

Quick update. The 4850 fits and APPEARS to run on my pretty puny 400w power supply. I've just installed a Windows 7 partition to do some testing on and am going to give Crysis a quick stretch just to really push it and see if it manages not to crash.

Having problem with audio though, it seems that I can't use my motherboards HDMI out as the amp doesn't pick it up anymore. Must be something to do with having no video signal.

That said I have a cunning (ok, not so cunning really) plan. The version of the 4850 I'm planning on getting if this card works "ok" in my machine has a hdmi out and a dvi out. I was going to run a dvi->hdmi convertor to the tv and plug the hdmi out in to the amp.

If the psu falls over can anyone recommend a half decent matx psu? The only one I can find is:

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/164363

and that's dubiously cheap.

Stormwatcher

Mr_Grinch wrote: »

Quick update. The 4850 fits and APPEARS to run on my pretty puny 400w power supply. I've just installed a Windows 7 partition to do some testing on and am going to give Crysis a quick stretch just to really push it and see if it manages not to crash.

Having problem with audio though, it seems that I can't use my motherboards HDMI out as the amp doesn't pick it up anymore. Must be something to do with having no video signal.

That said I have a cunning (ok, not so cunning really) plan. The version of the 4850 I'm planning on getting if this card works "ok" in my machine has a hdmi out and a dvi out. I was going to run a dvi->hdmi convertor to the tv and plug the hdmi out in to the amp.

If the psu falls over can anyone recommend a half decent matx psu? The only one I can find is:

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/164363

and that's dubiously cheap.

"400w" alone doesn't mean anything. Are those REALLY 400w? What's the minimum efficiency? How many amperes it's got on the 12V rails? How many 12v rails has it got? I ran my 4850 on a low efficiency 420w using plug adapters, and although it worked, the PSU got bad a few months after the GPU upgrade.

Mr_Grinch

Yep, that's why I wouldn't run it on this really bad value 400w supply for that long. Can anyone suggest a good psu for micro atx? They seem few and far between. It may very well be there just aren't any:

I could try and push the boat out and get a:

http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductID=524746&source=froogle

But £60 may be beyond my means at present, especially if I wanted a new graphics card.

I'm tempted just to go for the £20 500w one and push my luck with it.