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Damaged collectible book (I'm the seller) - need advice.
fleggett
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Some months ago, I sold a collectible, limited-edition book to a man in Germany. I've mailed many items to people all over the world, but this is the first time that anything has been damaged to the point that I've had to file a claim (believe it or not).
The guy sent me some pics of the damage back when he received it. It's a little unclear, but it looks like something from the traycase got knocked loose. The shipping carton itself looked a bit abused, but otherwise fine. I packed it extremely well, so how this could've happened is mystifying.
The buyer initiated a claim at his end, but was unsuccessful. I don't know many details of this, other than DHL was the German-based carrier.
As I had purchased international insurance at the time of mailing, I started the claims process. In the meantime, the buyer had the traycase repaired, but he says the job didn't completely resolve the damage.
The claim was denied by the post office, citing insufficient packing. In with the denial notification was a letter stating that I could file an appeal, but that would have to happen within thirty days.
As fate would have it, I had a life-threatening intestinal blockage during this time, spent 11 days in the hospital, and another two weeks recovering at home. I simply forgot all about the book and the claim and didn't check my email (I had other things on my mind). When I did log into my mail account, I found a fairly nasty email from the guy demanding some manner of recompense for the damaged state of the book. Trying to keep my cool, I emailed him back and explained everything that had been going on and asked him what he thought was fair. I also told him the appeals window had, unfortunately, lapsed.
He said he either wants me to take back the book and tender a full refund or compensate him for half the selling price. In looking at my records, I sold the book to him for $400 (including shipping & the useless insurance, which alone was around $40).
I must say, this has, regrettably, soured me from doing any further non-domestic business and I now realize why people simply don't want to ship outside the U.S. Which is really unfortunate, as many of the things I've sold over the years have been to (grateful) international buyers.
Anyone have any advice on this? I expected him to say $50 or $75, but $200 seems absurd for what amounts to relatively minor damage that's already been repaired by the manufacturer. Apart from the fact that I don't have $200, I feel like I'm trying to be fleeced.
The guy sent me some pics of the damage back when he received it. It's a little unclear, but it looks like something from the traycase got knocked loose. The shipping carton itself looked a bit abused, but otherwise fine. I packed it extremely well, so how this could've happened is mystifying.
The buyer initiated a claim at his end, but was unsuccessful. I don't know many details of this, other than DHL was the German-based carrier.
As I had purchased international insurance at the time of mailing, I started the claims process. In the meantime, the buyer had the traycase repaired, but he says the job didn't completely resolve the damage.
The claim was denied by the post office, citing insufficient packing. In with the denial notification was a letter stating that I could file an appeal, but that would have to happen within thirty days.
As fate would have it, I had a life-threatening intestinal blockage during this time, spent 11 days in the hospital, and another two weeks recovering at home. I simply forgot all about the book and the claim and didn't check my email (I had other things on my mind). When I did log into my mail account, I found a fairly nasty email from the guy demanding some manner of recompense for the damaged state of the book. Trying to keep my cool, I emailed him back and explained everything that had been going on and asked him what he thought was fair. I also told him the appeals window had, unfortunately, lapsed.
He said he either wants me to take back the book and tender a full refund or compensate him for half the selling price. In looking at my records, I sold the book to him for $400 (including shipping & the useless insurance, which alone was around $40).
I must say, this has, regrettably, soured me from doing any further non-domestic business and I now realize why people simply don't want to ship outside the U.S. Which is really unfortunate, as many of the things I've sold over the years have been to (grateful) international buyers.
Anyone have any advice on this? I expected him to say $50 or $75, but $200 seems absurd for what amounts to relatively minor damage that's already been repaired by the manufacturer. Apart from the fact that I don't have $200, I feel like I'm trying to be fleeced.
fleggett on
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If you think the repaired book is worth more than $200, take it back, refund his money, and then resell it.
If he really has no room for recourse, as terrible of a person I am for saying it, might just want to ignore his mails.
If I were to take the book back, I'd have to refund the entire amount, not just $200.
I could, but he knows my Paypal and eBay names (and, of course, my email address) and I don't know how far he's willing to take this. Besides, I already technically did this when I was hospitalized.
So, How much packing did you put around this book? That sounds suspiciously fraudulent if you did put adequate packing around it.
Well, I >thought< I had used plenty of packing. No less (but no more) than what I typically use when shipping stuff overseas. I'll freely admit that the book may've suffered damage, as I hear DHL is pretty-much the last carrier you want to use for much of anything. It's the extent of my personal liability I'm disputing, especially since it's been repaired (sounds like the guy wants to have his cake and eat a lot of it, too).
<sigh> I suppose this had to happen someday. I just wish it would've occurred with something a lot less pricey.
-$350 (my original purchase)
+$400 (sale to Germany)
-$12 (Paypal fee)
-$47 (shipping and bloody useless insurance)
(In case you're wondering, yep, I effectively ate $59 in fees.)
-$50 ("settlement" money)
=======
$-59 (net amount)
So, in the end, I will've lost money on this book. Which has been pretty typical with me lately (I wish this damn economy would turn around).
Definitely my last time accepting international orders, though, unless it's somewhere like Canada.
Has he adequately documented the damage done?
I don't believe there are any legal standards for things like 'mint condition' so I'm fairly sure you are legally in the clear. Paypal disputes must happen within 45 days of the exchange.
Morally speaking, you need to examine the damage and develop a fair price for what you would expect if the situation was reversed. I would offer him that price and feel satisfied with myself whether or not he accepted it. Caveat emptor and all that.
edit: looks like you did all this, and you did free shipping with insurance to germany?
Like I wrote, he sent me some pics, at least one showing the box (which had been kicked around a bit) and the traycase and what looked like a piece that had become detached from the traycase. It was very strange damage. I would've expected a dent or possibly even a crack, but not a chip.
It probably depends on amounts. There's a comic-based company doing book grades from 0 to 10 that I think have been used in civil courts to determine estate amounts. That company wasn't used in this case, though.
If the situation had been reversed, I would've asked that a claim be filed (particularly since insurance was paid) and, if that was denied, I probably would've gotten the traycase repaired and been done with it. Maybe scratch him (me) off of a future sellers list. I do NOT think I would've engaged in this constant hounding for redress.
Oh, and yeah, in trying to be a "nice guy" I basically ate the price of shipping/insurance to Germany. Probably another mistake on my part.
Explain to the guy that the insurance won't pay up (The bastards) and that your hands are essentially tied.
It seems all care for sent items goes out the window when its international.
Yeah, this has really put me off from shipping stuff internationally. Makes me wonder if I should even sell items to people in Alaska and Hawaii.
BTW, the guy wrote me back and essentially demanded no less than $100. I'm just so over this....
On topic stuff:
He doesn't really have any recourse as mentioned. I'd just ignore his emails.
http://cgi.ebay.com/BRIAN-KEENE-THE-RUTTING-SEASON-SIGNED-LETTERED-1-of-26_W0QQitemZ360107033614QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAntiquarian_Collectible?hash=item53d80d440e&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116
The traycase was really far out. I was sorry to see it go.
Well, I don't want to seem unsympathetic, but after this last email he sent me, I'm pretty damn tempted.
Did you say how much money the buyer spent on repairs? Because if the book is fixed now, that's really all you should pay - maybe plus a little more, since it'll never be in mint again. Ask him for a receipt.
Is this your business? Or just some money on the side?
Yeah, I agree that both sides are valid - I'd tend to argue that if you're buying something online based on a specified condition, you should know that there's a risk of it getting damaged during shipping (hell, I wouldn't even buy something like an LCD online because of this), and international shipping only compounds that chance. Also, DHL sucks, there's a better chance of your package arriving and undamaged if you shot it out of a cannon in the general area of the destination.
However, I do agree that you're coming off a little unsympathetic here - if you were the one that had to initiate a damage appeal with the post office, and didn't (for whatever reason), it's not unreasonable for him to be a little pissed about it. It sucks that you had to deal with health issues, but it also sucks that he gets stuck with a damaged shipment and no monetary recourse because you weren't able to be on top of an insurance claim (and furthermore, obviously, with buying something over the internet he has no idea if your health problems were real, an excuse because you were lazy and sat on it for a month, or an excuse because you knowingly shipped it broken)
Legally, I'd agree that there's probably no responsibility on your part at this point; morally, though, I don't think you can really claim as high a ground as you seem to be claiming
I don't recall in any of the emails that he sent, but I can't imagine he was charged a repair fee, as this publisher typically bends over backwards when one of their traycases suffers damage. I bought a book published by the same company from an online bookseller and it arrived with the clasp badly twisted (and that >was< due to bad packing). I contacted the publisher and the traycase manufacturer repaired it for free, plus I was reimbursed shipping. At most, since he's in Germany, I'd say he paid for shipping one-way, hence my $50 offer. I'm not sure what sort of receipt would've been generated, as one wasn't in my case.
Just a side thing. I'm actually in the process of extricating myself from the whole small press scene, as the books just don't hold their value anymore relative to their MSRPs.
I've thought about it and I'm just going to pay him the $100 to get him off my back. I fortunately got paid recently for some on-the-side computer work and I just want this whole thing closed.
International selling, though - never again!