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Want to travel after graduation. Girlfriend can't come with.
MHYoshimitzu
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Hey guys,
I need a new perspective on this situation. This girl I've been dating for about nine months now, Cara, is a law student who is very close with her family. I'm a journalism student who is going to graduate in December. Up until now, there have never been any major issues between us, and every fight we've had we've worked out simply through talking and compromising. After dating two crazies in a row, it's been a huge relief to finally date someone who is an adult and can handle problems responsibly. I felt like we were going to be together for a long time.
Until yesterday. Yesterday, I finally told Cara about what I want to do after I graduate: travel. I've lived in the same house in the same town for the past 22 years. I've vacationed in Florida and New Jersey, but other than that I've pretty much stayed in the Delaware Valley area my whole life (the area around Philadelphia, New Jersey, and Delaware). I've always wanted to move someplace new to experience the feeling of starting over, meeting new people, and having new experiences (one of the reasons I'm a journalism student). I'm dying to go somewhere different.
Two of my friends, one of whom is graduating the same time as I am, want to move to Seattle for a few years to live on the west coast. They want me to go with them. I've heard great things about Seattle both from people I know there and the people on this forum. On top of that, if I were to move anywhere with anyone, these two guys are the people I would go with. They're trustworthy, hard-working and I've known them both for years. I think it's a great opportunity for me.
This, unfortunately, doesn't mesh with Cara's plans. As an undergrad, she spent a year in Ireland studying abroad, so she completely understands my desire to travel to new places, but with two years of law school left, it's impossible for her to come with me. And she's said she would love to travel with me afterward, but it's impossible to say what her life will be like after law school, and she doesn't want to spend too much time away from her family. Her family is her rock, and she's very big on always being close by to them so she can support them and they can support her.
Cara is extremely important to me, not just because she's the first mature girl I've dated. I'm invested in her life, her career, and want to be there for her in every way I can. We're pretty much the same person: we finish each other's sentences, know what the other is thinking, and our friends and families come together perfectly. She's smart, bright, funny, and I don't think I would find a girl like that anywhere I'd go. So, going to Seattle would mean giving up my chance to be with her, and to even consider that kills me.
I have doubts on both sides of the issue here that are equally terrifying. The first is that if I move in with Cara after graduating, I'd never get a chance to travel like I want to. I feel like it's something I'd regret for the rest of my life. The other is to travel and lose my chance to be with her. There's a chance that she'd be available if I came back, or would be willing to come to me once she graduated, but I am assuming that I'm not going to have a chance with her again like I do now. Again, it's a decision I would regret greatly if these moving plans fell through.
I'm looking for perspectives, personal stories, and general advice on how to move forward with this. Thank you.
I need a new perspective on this situation. This girl I've been dating for about nine months now, Cara, is a law student who is very close with her family. I'm a journalism student who is going to graduate in December. Up until now, there have never been any major issues between us, and every fight we've had we've worked out simply through talking and compromising. After dating two crazies in a row, it's been a huge relief to finally date someone who is an adult and can handle problems responsibly. I felt like we were going to be together for a long time.
Until yesterday. Yesterday, I finally told Cara about what I want to do after I graduate: travel. I've lived in the same house in the same town for the past 22 years. I've vacationed in Florida and New Jersey, but other than that I've pretty much stayed in the Delaware Valley area my whole life (the area around Philadelphia, New Jersey, and Delaware). I've always wanted to move someplace new to experience the feeling of starting over, meeting new people, and having new experiences (one of the reasons I'm a journalism student). I'm dying to go somewhere different.
Two of my friends, one of whom is graduating the same time as I am, want to move to Seattle for a few years to live on the west coast. They want me to go with them. I've heard great things about Seattle both from people I know there and the people on this forum. On top of that, if I were to move anywhere with anyone, these two guys are the people I would go with. They're trustworthy, hard-working and I've known them both for years. I think it's a great opportunity for me.
This, unfortunately, doesn't mesh with Cara's plans. As an undergrad, she spent a year in Ireland studying abroad, so she completely understands my desire to travel to new places, but with two years of law school left, it's impossible for her to come with me. And she's said she would love to travel with me afterward, but it's impossible to say what her life will be like after law school, and she doesn't want to spend too much time away from her family. Her family is her rock, and she's very big on always being close by to them so she can support them and they can support her.
Cara is extremely important to me, not just because she's the first mature girl I've dated. I'm invested in her life, her career, and want to be there for her in every way I can. We're pretty much the same person: we finish each other's sentences, know what the other is thinking, and our friends and families come together perfectly. She's smart, bright, funny, and I don't think I would find a girl like that anywhere I'd go. So, going to Seattle would mean giving up my chance to be with her, and to even consider that kills me.
I have doubts on both sides of the issue here that are equally terrifying. The first is that if I move in with Cara after graduating, I'd never get a chance to travel like I want to. I feel like it's something I'd regret for the rest of my life. The other is to travel and lose my chance to be with her. There's a chance that she'd be available if I came back, or would be willing to come to me once she graduated, but I am assuming that I'm not going to have a chance with her again like I do now. Again, it's a decision I would regret greatly if these moving plans fell through.
I'm looking for perspectives, personal stories, and general advice on how to move forward with this. Thank you.
MHYoshimitzu on
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Could turn out that Seattle sucks.
This is an easy solution though so I'm sure you've thought of it. I'm going to assume that since she is so grounded with her family she is going to be resistant to leaving even after law school. Is she against traveling far at all? There's lots of ways to stay in touch with family members (Skype!) no matter how far away you are.
What about if you did move, without her? Could you or would you want to do the Long Distance Relationship route? Those can suck, BUT if you think the relationship can handle it and you truely trust one another, you can stick it out till she is out of school and then maybe you will be done with your wanderlust. I grew up in a small town too, and thought I wanted to leave really badly. Then I did, but everything just didn't seem as nice or comfortable as my hometown, so I ended up moving back and never want to leave.
It's a tough problem. If you go without her, you will miss her terribly. If you stay, you will regret not travelling for the rest of your life. You can also wait a little longer and see what happens, but you may fall so far in love with her you can't concieve traveling without her (though, if she loves you as much, she will try to accomodate you as well).
Good luck!
Based on your description of her, it sounds like Cara would be open to the latter, but not the former. If you really want to move around a lot thought, that leaves you with two options - do the long distance thing or break up. As someone who has done the long distance thing, I can tell you, without an end point in sight, it can be pretty rough. If you're okay with short term travel - it's a case of timing. She might not be in a position to go anywhere for a while, but then again, when someone is in school, there are occasional breaks that you two could take advangtage of - three days here, a week there. You could also plan a major trip between her graduation and start date at whatever job she lands.
What it comes down to is that you can't have it all and you need to decide what is more important to you. I think you already know the answer based on your post.
Break your travel up into sections so you come home every few months for a couple of weeks before you head out again.
If she is as dedicated to the relationship as you seem to be, she would not leave you for someone else during that time...
I wouldn't put it on such harsh terms. If she makes you happy I highly doubt that you'll have regrets for the rest of your life. Being with her for the rest of your life could be WAY more kickass than a few years in Seattle and NOT being with her, ever.
I understand where you're coming from. I wanted to get the hell out of BFE Ohio myself, but I can definitely stay here if it means staying with my kickass gf.
Edit: On the other hand, if you break up with her and do your own thing, I'm sure you (as a human being) will "get over it", say that the 9 month relationship reached it's natural end, and that you have no regrets about breaking up with her. And whatever spouse you get later will be far and above cooler, and you'll justify that she sucked because she didn't meet your travelling needs, etc. You're 22...you could go either path and "heal" from the decision easily enough.
This, too.
You have your (and possibly her) whole life ahead of you to move somewhere new, and two years to wait for this kickass girlfriend to be done with school.
I think the idea of periodic travel while she finishes school is a great idea as well. It will give you an idea of what different places are actually like (rather than weekend jaunts and "falling in love" with a town), and maybe will change your perspective about which is more important (for better or worse, as it were).
I mean, you want to make sure you have all the relevant information before you make a decision, but here's the thing: she's in law school. You're thinking "two more years, and we can travel." Only that's really not the case; two more years, and she'll have locked down her first job out of school, and probably won't be able to do any serious vacationing for at least another year (unless she's independently wealthy, and doesn't need to worry about that). And from what you've said, it really doesn't sound like relocating is in the cards for her, but it's something you really need to talk to her about. If she wants to live in the same place for the rest of her life (because of the family thing), you need to take into account the fact that you are not going to be able to move anytime you're with her (and if you're planning on being with her the rest of your life, well...). And if she does agree to relocate with you, she's going to need to take an out-of-state Bar exam.
And as someone who actually made the move from a small town to a big city (Seattle, incidentally): I would honestly rather die than go back to living in that small town. I mean, I visit for a weekend, and I'm bored to tears. A lot of my friends got married to hometown girls and hometown boys who never want to leave, and are now stuck there. Small towns are like black holes: once you're stuck in their gravity, it's nigh impossible to get out.
And really, if she's planning on being a lawyer, any travel going beyond a week probably just plain isn't happening (or, at least, not happening for many, many years). I mean, honestly, it sounds like she's done what little travelling she wants to, and is now in her twenties ready to settle down and lock things in with her family. You, on the other hand, sound like you're just starting your life, and want to experience a ton of new things. Frankly, I think for me this would be a no-brainer (and let me make it clear that my advice is biased in the "dump her and move on" direction). But you need to make sure you've discussed things out with her before you make a decision. Have you guys even discussed things like kids, marriage, etc.? I mean, normally, at nine months, I'd be saying it's a little early, but you're talking about basing a decision that is going to have a tremendous impact on the rest of your life around staying with this girl; you should at least know whether or not your life goals are even compatible, or if this is actually a total non-decision.
I would say look for jobs in your area or something that isn't far. I thought you said you were in the Delaware Valley. From the sound of that, I should think finding something closer might not be that difficult with so many big cities within an easy car drive (Philly and New York standing out the most). You might find that getting a new start and meeting new people doesn't take so much distance as you might think.
If you're still bound and determined to check out Seattle or the like, I'd say take a vacation there first and see for yourself and don't spend all your time at all the attractions and sites, check out the local places as well. It should give you a decent outlook on the place.
You won't get a better answer than this one.
Like others have said, there's a big difference between traveling to see more of the world and traveling to another state to move and live there. If you're so set on seeing more than what you have, I don't think moving to a new state is going to help. You'll have seen one more place than you have now.
Why don't you take some time after graduation and take a roadtrip instead? You can spend a month or two (or however long you want) cruising around the country and getting to see a lot of things you wouldn't by just moving to Seattle. It'll give you a chance to get out of the place you've always lived and see what else is out there, it'll itch the bug you have, and when you come back after you still have plenty of time to decide if you want to live somewhere else.
Hell, if you're only gone a month or two I'm sure you could still move to Seattle if you decided it was something you still have to do.
I think your girlfriend will be much more understanding if you want to go away and take a trip with a date when you'll return rather than leaving her to go live on the west coast where you don't know when or if you'll be seeing her again. Not only that, but I think if seeing the sights is your goal, you'll get a lot more joy out of seeing a ton of places over the course of a couple of weeks rather than moving and seeing one new state. You do need to take the chance now, because if you wait for her to graduate by then you'll probably have a job of your own and be tied down to the area in one way or another.
My suggestion, though, would be to pick somewhere you've never been to go vacation. Go somewhere you've always wanted to go and spend time there. The absolute worse thing that can happen is you start traveling a few years later than you would have wanted.
Like I said, I'm not advising to pass on it as a whole. His friends will still be there when he gets back, so it's not like he'll never be able to leave and go live in Seattle if he takes a trip first to see if that satisfies his needs.
At the very least I'd say go take a trip and check out Seattle to make sure you like it before moving.
But you're just talking about fucking moving to Seattle. I promise you Seattle is not some amazing, magical place so incredibly different from whatever city is nearest you. Hell, even going abroad doesn't really mean anything.
After I graduated I took a trip to Amsterdam hoping the expanse of the trip would somehow grant me some grand revelation about what the fuck I was going to do with my life. But no, just another city. Charming, sure, but certainly nothing life-altering my youthful ideals thought it would be.
In the end you can go either way. I think you put the girl on a pedestal because like you said you dated two idiots before. She's probably not the most amazing girl in the world, and you probably would find another girl wherever you go, and most relationships end so it's hard to tell you to give up an opportunity.
On the other hand young people idealize going "somewhere else," but the reality is a few thousand miles doesn't change anything fundamentally. Especially if you're talking the same country/culture. Shit will be the same.
There's no correct answer. Just whatever you feel is right.
A side note: A trip over there sounds like a great idea, but should I do it alone? Maybe taking her with me would change her stance long-term about wanting to move post-graduation.
Kids: Yes, but not for at least five years. Two children. She wants at least one girl, I want at least one of each.
Marriage: Well, law school. Having a wedding to stress over while taking the bar is some people's cup of tea, but she wants to wait until after. I'm fine with that.
Living together: She desperately wants to get out of her dorm. It's crappy, there are almost no amenities besides an air conditioner, and it takes forever for maintenance to fix anything. I want to get out of my parents' house because my "cost effective solution" to save money by not living in Philly while going to school and instead commuting on a train is wearing thin. The earliest we could officially live together on a lease is in May, when her lease with her university expires.
You have to find out if your girlfriend is willing to follow you to another city though. That's what will make your decision for you.
You're right that the difference between a 10 thousand person town and a million person city is huge. The difference between two million person cities is a little more subtle though. If the OP is from the Delaware Valley area it's not like he grew up in a holler somewhere in West Virginia.
That's really your own call, but I'd say take her with you! Find a break in classes for both of you and make it into a roadtrip if you can. You'll both get to have fun and you'll get to see a lot of great stuff on the way over there.
My girlfriend and I just got back from a roadtrip up from Florida to New York and back all along the coast and it was a blast. I'd lived in Florida all my life and really did want to branch out and see new things, and I really feel like the road trip helped me to kind of get out -- we stopped in a ton of states on the way up and then different ones on the way down, saw what there was to see. Got the travelling bug out for me, anyway.
If you really want to get out and live somewhere else, why not do that for the two years while she is still in school? Long distance relationships do kinda suck. But you would have a definite end point in sight, you would be traveling home to both your family and Cara at the same time and she will be busy with school. My husband was halfway across the country finishing up his bachelors for the first six months I was in med school and I have to say I got a lot more studying done more easily during that time. Cara might be pleasantly surprised that she doesn't mind having you somewhere else with relatively frequent visits. Do you think that two years won't be long enough for you?
Also if you guys are going to both have careers and want kids you might be surprised how much you (the OP) may want to end up back close to your parents when you have infants. Childcare is ridiculously expensive and having grandparents around can make kids financially feasible where they aren't otherwise. (Also you guys do know you don't get to pick the gender... right?)
If you really want to get out and see the world, join the peace corps for two years, Seattle is still the same country :P
And if you really want to get the sense of striking out on your own don't go with friends, pick someplace really cool where you know noone.
I grew up in Denver, and spent time living around San Diego and LA. Trust me when I saw trust Thantos.
Words cannot describe how boring it is here, and I can't wait to GTFO.
See how many books I've read so far in 2010
Long distance relationships really don't work for me. I've had three so far, and they haven't been fun. Talking on the phone is great and it lets you get to know a person more intellectually, but I may be a jackass in saying that I need some sort of physical aspect to a relationship for it to succeed. Going away for a long period would almost certainly kill us.
As far as childcare goes, it really isn't an issue in this problem. She wants to have children well after she's established a career, and this problem is one that's here now. While it's feasible I could move back when children start coming into the picture, with Cara it's an all or nothing thing. She has to have her family in close proximity, and I usually can't go more than a week without hearing from her that she misses hanging out with her brother or going shopping with her mom.
Being a law student is a very long, lonely process, and I think part of the reason she wants me to stay is because I am one of the only drama-free outlets she has for fun (Her law friends all go out and drink and cause problems between one another. It's almost not worth it to go out with them because of all the drama they cause.)
So you live in San Diego/LA now, and you hate it? I'm not sure I understand the quote tree here.
No, I used to live in that area. Now I live near Modesto. BFE
See how many books I've read so far in 2010
The differences between Boston and DC are astounding and their populations are within 1000s of each other. The differences between Philly and those 2 cities is even larger. Hell, the differences between Philly and most cities will be very noticeable. Hell, I didn't even live in Philly (South Jersey here) but even I was sick of Philly by time I moved out for school. Culture varies very greatly from city to city, coast to coast is an even greater difference.
Visiting the possible relocation city is prime advice though. My bf and I are thinking about moving to Austin next year so we're going to visit there and a couple other cities we're tossing around in the next few months before we make a decision. That being said, when I moved to Boston I did so without ever having even been in MA much less Boston and it worked out really well.
A) Dump your GF (who you think is the awesomest) to relocate because you hate the NE Coast
I had written a nice argument about whether you'd feel that way or not, but I just deleted it. It sounds to me like you just want to sow your wild oats. Just dump Cara before you get even more involved and really crush her, since to me she sounds like an awesome chick, and go to Seattle so you both can get over it and be happy
Miami, Dallas, Las Vegas, San Francisco, San Diego, St. Louis, Denver, Atlanta, Minneapolis.
Just as you don't want to be tied down to your small(er) town, you shouldn't have tunnel vision about your potential destination. You don't want to be tied down in a city you may not like out of loyalty to your friends, either.
I think you are conflating posts from different people. The OP is in Philly, which is a larger city than any of the ones you listed. It just sucks as a city.
To the OP, it really breaks down to you sitting down and figuring out what will make you happier. Living in new places without Cara or living in the Delaware valley with her. None of us can tell you that.
The one option that you haven't really addressed is what about taking more frequent and exciting vacations? You can't move in with Cara until next May, you shouldn't need to look for apartments or sign a lease for a while. Try taking a few road trips and vacations between now and christmas. Go out to Seattle with your friends for two weeks. Drive up to Vermont or Maine for a three day weekend. Drive down to Tennessee or Kentucky for a three day weekend. You will get a chance to explore different parts of the country. This will tell you if frequent vacations can make you happy living here with Cara and it will also let you explore parts of the country you haven't been to so you have a better idea of where you want to live if you do decide to strike off on your own.
Since we got together in November, we have gone to:
Atlantic City (three times)
Ocean City, MD
Englewood, FL (Near Sarasota. I have family here.)
And then day trips to places like Bensalem (Sands casino), Scranton (Pocono Downs. Seeing a pattern?), Newark (Delaware Park) and the Poconos.
They were wonderful trips, and we had a great time but bad luck seems to follow us wherever we go. We either end up getting lost, getting in a big argument on the way there/back, or plans fall through. And while I can sort of roll with the punches when things get tough, she gets very upset when things don't work out the way she intends. Honestly, at this point I can't tell if all women are like that or if it's just the ones I've dated, because practically every woman I know acts this way.
I can see the same sort of things happening while taking these other trips. On top of everything else, the feeling of being stuck in the same place forever comes back after about a week or so. So these "temp" trips we've been taking haven't really been satisfying my desire to go new places.
Edit- I suppose the reason I don't want to break up with her is that there technically isn't anything "wrong" between us. All of my other relationships were easy because there was a clear cut reason why we had to break up. With her, we're great. Never been better. And because it's such a big decision, it's hard to stand my ground and say "This is definitely what's going to happen" because I have no control of what's going to happen to me in a few months. To me, I would be breaking up with her for an idea, a concrete idea that I really want to have happen. But I would feel terrible if plans changed and I ended up breaking up with her for nothing.
It's all very hard to think about because I'm dealing entirely in hypotheticals. I think I am thinking too much.
Travelling is nice, but if you feel a need to see other places...that need doesn't go away as it (usually) seem to be rooted in something deeper than then need to travel.
For now I'd make a (mental) list of your options, and what each of them have to offer vs. what you have to loose. Then decide on what is more important to you.
Err, what?
So basically you want to break out of the life that has been made for you and go 'live free' somewhere? Unfettered by obligation and roaming around forever?
That's not how life works, unless you're a gypsy or a bedouan.
It might be good to think through what do you really _want_ versus just what are you _feeling_?
It doesn't suck. I love it very much here, and always will because it's my hometown city.
No. But a trip to Seattle will probably go like this:
"Oh, wasn't that nice? But I have to get back to work, school, and seeing my friends."
Not saying that any of that is bad. I have a lot invested here, which makes moving very difficult. I also have no problems working low-paying, short-term jobs for the moment so it allows me to see what the rest of the country has to offer.
For now, of course. I have large desires to start a family, teach my kids how to read, push them creatively to express themselves, let them know that the world we're in now isn't all about healthcare battles and economic crashes.
You tackle your life goals one at a time. I want to make sure my traveling goal gets accomplished before I settle down with a family and get a "real" job.
As for your potential future with Cara, my father's a lawyer, has been for the past 40 years or so. I think his case is atypical since he's been with the same firm since he got out of lawschool but I can tell you that lawyers are usually very busy people. My mother and father have traveled pretty well both in their younger years and after the nest emptied. They went to England about four years ago and every year or two they'll go to a big lawyer convention in San Diego or Florida or some other place nice and stay for a long weekend or even a full week. So for my mom I would say life with a lawyer has been pretty good. However Cara's career may require settling down and staying put. I'm not sure how you envision your journalism career or if that's even what you want to pursue. But if you fancy yourself having a sort of globe traveler life then it may be best to break things off now.
If you go the long distance relationship route, I wish you the best but I wouldn't lay odds on it working out.
In the end this is all about whether or not the two of you have compatible life goals. I'd sit down and talk with her about it. The old "Five years from now I see myself ______" routine.
Honestly, if you want to travel, take a 2 week trip to the third world. You won't look at your 'real job' with as much disdain after you see workers slaving away for 14 hours to provide for five children on $1.20 a day. Which in case your're wondering, _might_ buy a cup of rice, if you're lucky.
Which is why I say again, what are you really _looking for_? If all that's driving you to travel is feeling like you're not at home and you don't belong here, then your answers are spiritual and not geographic.
I tend to believe that there's not a whole lot new under the sun, and seeing beautiful and horrifying cities all around the world solidifies that belief for me - that's what I was looking for - to see for myself what I had been told about the world.
Either you've never been to the Northeast, or you've never been to Seattle. Possibly both.