AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
I would almost bet against Defilers being a PC class. It's more than certain that one thing Dark Sun is defiling is going to be typical class restrictions (which don't exist in a "Everything is core" environment). For example there are definitely restrictions on certain classes in Dark Sun compared with other settings. Some classes are going to be different in dark sun as well (probably to change fighter into Gladiator).
I would almost bet against Defilers being a PC class. It's more than certain that one thing Dark Sun is defiling is going to be typical class restrictions (which don't exist in a "Everything is core" environment). For example there are definitely restrictions on certain classes in Dark Sun compared with other settings. Some classes are going to be different in dark sun as well (probably to change fighter into Gladiator).
Well, gladiator is a very specialized role, there's plenty of fighters who aren't gladiators but at the same time aren't barbarians. Career soldiers, non cleric templars, guards.
Gladiator always felt kind of redundant to me, as its just a fancy fighter, but hey, if they come up with something fresh and exciting for it, thats cool.
I would guess that "Gladiator" is going to be a background or term that can apply to any of the Martial classes, and at least some of the Psionic or Primal classes. This is another point where 4E differs with 2E; there are a lot more classes that basically exist to hit other people with weapons, and universal weapon proficiency just isn't as cool as it used to be.
I think divorcing defiling, as a choice and action, from a hard class restriction opens it up for PCs. If it remains a hard split where defilers are a distinct class, I do agree; it doesn't fit in terms of basic, playable rules. It's a hard-coded reason for inter-party conflict.
A PC who might be tempted to draw a bit of extra power in dire circumstances, though? I don't think that would inherently unbalance or draw parties into conflict.
On Gladiators; is there a Martial Controller class yet?
There isn't a specific class to fill the Martial Controller role yet, no.
The Fighter, Rogue and Ranger can all be built to be reasonably strong controller secondaries, though. And Martial isn't a source that lends itself to most of the things that Controllers do right now. Then again, the treatment of the role has shifted a great deal from the first printing of the PHB.
I'm still getting caught up on this 4e stuff, but it seems a "tricks and disarms" sort of Gladiator (fitting with 2e descriptions, at least) would be perfect in a Controller role, and provide something distinct and different. It also sidesteps the need for armor and weapons nicely.
It's a hard-coded reason for inter-party conflict.
Pfft, what sort of parties are these? Ones with druids? Who plays a druid?
So, here's what I'm thinking, a Thri-kreen Psionicist who's preoccupation is SCIENCE! That is to say, the science of psionics. And like any mad scientist, he has his own interesting theories. Clearly in order to understand the mind of an enemy fully, one must consume it. That is a most logical assumption. This character is neither malicious nor random in his actions, and even very loyal to those he has accepted as his "clutch mates", but is certainly...odd.
It's a hard-coded reason for inter-party conflict.
Pfft, what sort of parties are these? Ones with druids? Who plays a druid?
So, here's what I'm thinking, a Thri-kreen Psionicist who's preoccupation is SCIENCE! That is to say, the science of psionics. And like any mad scientist, he has his own interesting theories. Clearly in order to understand the mind of an enemy fully, one must consume it. That is a most logical assumption. This character is neither malicious nor random in his actions, and even very loyal to those he has accepted as his "clutch mates", but is certainly...odd.
That closely resembles some of the better ideas from the later stuff; the cold "mad scientist" stuff from the Kreen Empire. Fits for a bunch of orderly intelligent insect people.
Hmm, seeing the comment that alignment shouldn't be used if it doesn't confer mechanical changes--what about gender? Or height? or God for that matter? All of the things in that portion of the character sheet (name, etc) are there for YOU to identify with the character. Alignment is a simplified tool for ascertaining what your character believes.
4E has really improved alignment, in my opinion, by making it more of a general baseline.
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UtsanomikoBros before DoesRollin' in the thlayRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
Based on what I've read of the setting and familiarity with the genre, the first thing would be to narrow down possible adventures and focus on the chief themes of the setting: a cruel, unforgiving world with a long fragmented past and few signs of a future.
Emphasis on dangerous travel and the importance of supplies and preparation, making distances between locations in a small, sparse region feel much larger. Lots of natural hazards and 'random' travel encounters of a couple levels higher than the PCs, especially if they are caught unprepared or are reckless about whom they pick fights with. The ongoing conflicts should center around the contrast between the tyranny of the authority versus the weakness of the common people; to fight evil is the be a renegade and an underdog, and being in cities means obeying the literally draconian laws of sorcerer-kings. No real sense of safety or complacency.
Item rewards would be scaled back, in addition to the flavor of mundane and low-level items as 'bone' or 'wood' while metal arms and armor are treated as possessing significant boons. Adventuring equipment could use a revamp to cater to the needs of desert travel. Subsequently, progress would be slow and/or difficult as the encounter levels of fights are kept from outpacing the PCs too much.
Otherwise I think 4e can cover making Dark Sun feel dangerous and unforgiving. I don't feel the need to outright bugger the party over with random, unmanageable, and fickle rewards and challenges, which you almost have to consciously do with 4th Edition's DMG tools.
Obviously new races like half-giants, Muls, and Thri-Kreen. The later of which I'd probably give the ability to hold three off-hand items as a major bonus (subsequent racial feats could boost multi-fighting ability). And new class features and sets of powers to represent setting-specific styles of adventurers, like the gladiator feats and weapons from Dragon magazine, or any divine class to chose an elemental damage type. Lots of stuff for Psionics, probably including a feat or two for any character to take limited psionic powers.
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Well, gladiator is a very specialized role, there's plenty of fighters who aren't gladiators but at the same time aren't barbarians. Career soldiers, non cleric templars, guards.
Gladiator always felt kind of redundant to me, as its just a fancy fighter, but hey, if they come up with something fresh and exciting for it, thats cool.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
A PC who might be tempted to draw a bit of extra power in dire circumstances, though? I don't think that would inherently unbalance or draw parties into conflict.
On Gladiators; is there a Martial Controller class yet?
The Fighter, Rogue and Ranger can all be built to be reasonably strong controller secondaries, though. And Martial isn't a source that lends itself to most of the things that Controllers do right now. Then again, the treatment of the role has shifted a great deal from the first printing of the PHB.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Pfft, what sort of parties are these? Ones with druids? Who plays a druid?
So, here's what I'm thinking, a Thri-kreen Psionicist who's preoccupation is SCIENCE! That is to say, the science of psionics. And like any mad scientist, he has his own interesting theories. Clearly in order to understand the mind of an enemy fully, one must consume it. That is a most logical assumption. This character is neither malicious nor random in his actions, and even very loyal to those he has accepted as his "clutch mates", but is certainly...odd.
That closely resembles some of the better ideas from the later stuff; the cold "mad scientist" stuff from the Kreen Empire. Fits for a bunch of orderly intelligent insect people.
Plus mantises are badass.
Hmmmm, and here I thought brain devouring was an Illithid ability, I spose it could be adapted for the kreen.
4E has really improved alignment, in my opinion, by making it more of a general baseline.
Emphasis on dangerous travel and the importance of supplies and preparation, making distances between locations in a small, sparse region feel much larger. Lots of natural hazards and 'random' travel encounters of a couple levels higher than the PCs, especially if they are caught unprepared or are reckless about whom they pick fights with. The ongoing conflicts should center around the contrast between the tyranny of the authority versus the weakness of the common people; to fight evil is the be a renegade and an underdog, and being in cities means obeying the literally draconian laws of sorcerer-kings. No real sense of safety or complacency.
Item rewards would be scaled back, in addition to the flavor of mundane and low-level items as 'bone' or 'wood' while metal arms and armor are treated as possessing significant boons. Adventuring equipment could use a revamp to cater to the needs of desert travel. Subsequently, progress would be slow and/or difficult as the encounter levels of fights are kept from outpacing the PCs too much.
Otherwise I think 4e can cover making Dark Sun feel dangerous and unforgiving. I don't feel the need to outright bugger the party over with random, unmanageable, and fickle rewards and challenges, which you almost have to consciously do with 4th Edition's DMG tools.
Obviously new races like half-giants, Muls, and Thri-Kreen. The later of which I'd probably give the ability to hold three off-hand items as a major bonus (subsequent racial feats could boost multi-fighting ability). And new class features and sets of powers to represent setting-specific styles of adventurers, like the gladiator feats and weapons from Dragon magazine, or any divine class to chose an elemental damage type. Lots of stuff for Psionics, probably including a feat or two for any character to take limited psionic powers.