I like that Champions Online takes a UO like open system and puts it into a WoW type world. It will take time for people to adjust and min/maxing will change every month.
I also haven't found a single MMO that doesn't reward the person with the most time. That is why I like the RMTs, I can complete with the kid to has a lot of time if I want to spend the money.
UO was an open power system also and you would see min/maxers, you would see people with totally useless builds, people with odd builds that would really work well because of how they played, etc...
The game hasn't even been out a month and a lot of you guys are acting like you expect to have it all figured out -- the game is a lot deeper than the standard class based MMO and is supposed to last years, not weeks. I don't see why you expect to have everything figured out in 3 weeks.
To fix PvP they need to turn every ability into Haymaker upon entering the PvP zone, max everyone's strength and remove travel powers. The only way to get points to win a round is to knock opponents into targets placed throughout the zone.
You have no idea how fun that sounds, and I utterly hate PvP!
But seriously, in a game that allows min/maxing, you aren't going to beat min/maxers with a haphazard build. No matter how much balancing you have.
Remember, you have access to everything they do.
Except time. The best min/maxers have time to experiment with everything and kekekekeke with each other on their boards to tell each other the tricks of the trade. Me, I could never hope to beat them because I have a job, a dog, a girl that wants me to play with her instead of the computer, and I'm not a member of the PvP MMO forums (I'm here and I lurk at SA... that's it). I accept that, but the people that are whipping up on everyone are whipping up on them not just due to skill, but due to time investment. Unless you're willing and able to take the time to study up on shit, you're basically Tomato Can Joe going in to fight Floyd Mayweather Jr.
And you're a better person for doing those other things . But what game doesn't reward you for time? Builds/tricks will always become widespread after (a rather short) period of time, but those that put the most time into it will always be trying to stay one step ahead. I don't see how your argument wouldn't hold for any game with PvP in it.
This pretty much. People with more time to devote to an activity will, on average, be better than those who don't. TF2, Counterstrike, SSB, F-Zero, WoWArena, whatever, experience gives an advantage. In a game like this or even WoW, knowledge of build composition is as important (if not more so) as dexterous digits.
The only thing they could really do is narrow the gap, and they are working on that via fixing some of the more broken things like: hold resistance not applying correctly, teleporting out of holds, no way to break block (added), ways to break heals (fixed), etc. People with a planned build or coordinated team will still kick the average person's ass though -- you need a certain subset of skills to be viable. And even after they fix these, every degree less of perfect min/max is a degree more of disadvantage you'll face. Things become FotM for a reason
Honestly, if you're looking for PvP without bothering to research builds, pick up an FPS. But map location, gun use, and common tricks/bugs will still be a factor there. Research is the MMOs version of lightning-fast reflexes.
Tag on
Overwatch: TomFoolery#1388 Black Desert: Family Name: Foolery. Characters: Tome & Beerserk.
(Retired) GW2 Characters (Fort Aspenwood): Roy Gee Biv
(Retired) Let's Play: Lone Wolf
But seriously, in a game that allows min/maxing, you aren't going to beat min/maxers with a haphazard build. No matter how much balancing you have.
Remember, you have access to everything they do.
Except time. The best min/maxers have time to experiment with everything and kekekekeke with each other on their boards to tell each other the tricks of the trade. Me, I could never hope to beat them because I have a job, a dog, a girl that wants me to play with her instead of the computer, and I'm not a member of the PvP MMO forums (I'm here and I lurk at SA... that's it). I accept that, but the people that are whipping up on everyone are whipping up on them not just due to skill, but due to time investment. Unless you're willing and able to take the time to study up on shit, you're basically Tomato Can Joe going in to fight Floyd Mayweather Jr.
And you're a better person for doing those other things . But what game doesn't reward you for time? Builds/tricks will always become widespread after (a rather short) period of time, but those that put the most time into it will always be trying to stay one step ahead. I don't see how your argument wouldn't hold for any game with PvP in it.
This pretty much. People with more time to devote to an activity will, on average, be better than those who don't. TF2, Counterstrike, SSB, F-Zero, WoWArena, whatever, experience gives an advantage. In a game like this or even WoW, knowledge of build composition is as important (if not more so) as dexterous digits.
The only thing they could really do is narrow the gap, and they are working on that via fixing some of the more broken things like: hold resistance not applying correctly, teleporting out of holds, no way to break block (added), ways to break heals (fixed), etc. People with a planned build or coordinated team will still kick the average person's ass though -- you need a certain subset of skills to be viable. And even after they fix these, every degree less of perfect min/max is a degree more of disadvantage you'll face. Things become FotM for a reason
Honestly, if you're looking for PvP without bothering to research builds, pick up an FPS. But map location, gun use, and common tricks/bugs will still be a factor there. Research is the MMOs version of lightning-fast reflexes.
Yes -- just to add, the time thing applies outside of gaming -- spend more time in the weight room, studying, firing range, etc...
Bugs are bugs and can't be beat. The false expectations attached to this game (and others like WAR and WoW) are that it will be perfectly balanced and bug free within a month of release. Lets be realistic, PA is supposed to be a community of gamers who have been playing games for a while. WoW continues to tweak classes every patch, WAR does, heck even Gears of War tweaks balance after release. Things in MMOs get broken and take time to fix. I remember broken raid encounters in WoW, terrible class balance, over balancing and then fixing, etc... This will plague all games and sadly is just something we need to accept with MMOs and software development.
Just to also agree my favorite moments in WoW PvP were when my group of friends would beat the "elite" groups because they were just showing up with their l33t gear and fancy builds, but no tactics. A group with coordinated efforts and smart choices will always win, no matter how well you are doing yourself, you can't beat a team if you are against a coordinated group.
Again, research is key to a MMO. And Champions makes research that much harder. This isn't like WoW where you can go to WoW Wiki, click builds, Holy Paladin and then see the best gear and build for a Holy Paladin. Champions is more like UO where there are a lot of valid choices depending on your play style and will take a lot of trail and error.
I've seen people with that SG under their name... what is that about? Just people who really like Club Caprice? Most of them I've seen weren't even furries so I was left confused.
Also, no more dueling in Club Caprice = lamesauce. Seeing all those explosions mixed in with the disco lights is fuckawesome.
I've seen people with that SG under their name... what is that about? Just people who really like Club Caprice? Most of them I've seen weren't even furries so I was left confused.
Also, no more dueling in Club Caprice = lamesauce. Seeing all those explosions mixed in with the disco lights is fuckawesome.
People who RP as the staff to the club.
As for dueling in Club Caprice, I would prefer it if they made use of that internal elevator and made a second floor to the club for those that want power suppression.
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
I've seen people with that SG under their name... what is that about? Just people who really like Club Caprice? Most of them I've seen weren't even furries so I was left confused.
Also, no more dueling in Club Caprice = lamesauce. Seeing all those explosions mixed in with the disco lights is fuckawesome.
People who RP as the staff to the club.
As for dueling in Club Caprice, I would prefer it if they made use of that internal elevator and made a second floor to the club for those that want power suppression.
How are people going to fulfill their giantess fetish? How can you simulate humping without chest emanating powers? It just doesn't sound like a nightclub anymore.
And while I knew it was coming, I'm glad I had a free respec in the bank for my Ice character, since the new Frozen Footsteps makes Ice Wall less effective than Frost Breath for setting up mobs for Chill/Shatter combos.
The bug where Ice Wall doesn't even fire off but instead goes straight to recharging was still there, making it even less appealing.
So why did I think this "nerf" went into effect about a week ago?
Was I just reading the patch notes for test?
I came home and respecced my wifes toon INTO ice and the next day was when they announced the change to Ice Wall but I thought the patch had already gone through.
Ugh, this sucks. I was living under the assumption that Ice Wall had already been changed (and it was still pretty damn good! imagine that) and then I play her last night and bam, two even level villains nearly killed me.
So why did I think this "nerf" went into effect about a week ago?
Was I just reading the patch notes for test?
I believe it was announced for the test server before the live server. I think it was in the first test server notes, can't check 'cause I'm at work though.
chrono_traveller on
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited September 2009
All these changes are going on the test server first. That is what it is for, after all.
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
I think the biggest problem I've dealt with using an Ice framework is the animation built in to the ice walls that are created automatically due to mobs attacking you. I feel like it often interrupts powers that I'm trying to activate, especially when trying to block.
I haven't found a long instance yet (even the lairs aren't that big and yet Dr. D factory manage to have 4 loading screens in it), just lots of small and medium sized ones, so I would say they are succeeding in that.
I miss caves! Especially the ones with the giant cylindrical 4 level room at the end! That was a blast, especially when it was Kill All Enemies! Bring it back! Bring it back!
Lionel-Richie on
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited September 2009
Ima smack you!
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
I really WOULD like some generic CoX style missions though that you can get from the crime computer. Y'know, so you can grind those out in the places where quests dry up. I'm at 17 now and I've been barely BARELY squeezing by on my MC quests and can see myself running out again soon.
Repeatable "mini instance" quests will make leveling alts more bearable too, I'd prefer not to have to go Canada Crisis, Desert Crisis, Desert, Canada, MC every single time I make an alt.
I hope endgame has some massive fucking lairs. Like, equivalent to Blackwing Lair in WoW. Telieos and Dr. Destroyer are already more entertaining bosses than Hamidon.
Repeatable "mini instance" quests will make leveling alts more bearable too, I'd prefer not to have to go Canada Crisis, Desert Crisis, Desert, Canada, MC every single time I make an alt.
I am with you on that one. I would like to see many more areas in the game, and not just for higher level characters.
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
I miss caves! Especially the ones with the giant cylindrical 4 level room at the end! That was a blast, especially when it was Kill All Enemies! Bring it back! Bring it back!
I will kill you, then bring you back to life so I can kill you again. You think I am joking.
Did I mention that the cave is full of Tsoo mystics using hurricane and you're Super Strength? Oh and it's a mixed one that includes the CoT ghosts with their -acc debuffs!
Did I mention that the cave is full of Tsoo mystics using hurricane and you're Super Strength? Oh and it's a mixed one that includes the CoT ghosts with their -acc debuffs!
In case anyone is using a weak password, I would advise you come up with a stronger one.
There seems to be an issue where people have been able to find account login names even if they are different from display/forum names.
Better safe than sorry. You should probably be using a strong gibberish password anyways, but I know how it gets sometimes as you get beatdown coming up with passwords.
I hope endgame has some massive fucking lairs. Like, equivalent to Blackwing Lair in WoW. Telieos and Dr. Destroyer are already more entertaining bosses than Hamidon.
I dunno about that. I'm all for epic adventures and all that, but wasn't BWL like really freaking long, especially before you put it on farm status? (Note: The only time I ever raided BWL was when a group of guildies decided to raid it while we were waiting for frozen throne to come out, so its not exactly like I have first person experience with it). I'd rather have lairs that are completable in 2-3 hours at most even when not on farm status. Something thats reasonably doable in an evening, at least for me.
chrono_traveller on
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
I hope endgame has some massive fucking lairs. Like, equivalent to Blackwing Lair in WoW. Telieos and Dr. Destroyer are already more entertaining bosses than Hamidon.
I dunno about that. I'm all for epic adventures and all that, but wasn't BWL like really freaking long, especially before you put it on farm status? (Note: The only time I ever raided BWL was when a group of guildies decided to raid it while we were waiting for frozen throne to come out, so its not exactly like I have first person experience with it). I'd rather have lairs that are completable in 2-3 hours at most even when not on farm status. Something thats reasonably doable in an evening, at least for me.
BWL would take about 6 hours if they didn't have that fucking supression room. That usually took an hour in itself because some people were stupid. 3+ hours your first time there...
I hope endgame has some massive fucking lairs. Like, equivalent to Blackwing Lair in WoW. Telieos and Dr. Destroyer are already more entertaining bosses than Hamidon.
I dunno about that. I'm all for epic adventures and all that, but wasn't BWL like really freaking long, especially before you put it on farm status? (Note: The only time I ever raided BWL was when a group of guildies decided to raid it while we were waiting for frozen throne to come out, so its not exactly like I have first person experience with it). I'd rather have lairs that are completable in 2-3 hours at most even when not on farm status. Something thats reasonably doable in an evening, at least for me.
Took 3-5 hours usually, as far as I remember, to do BWL when it was on farm status, depending on how good the group was.
I hope endgame has some massive fucking lairs. Like, equivalent to Blackwing Lair in WoW. Telieos and Dr. Destroyer are already more entertaining bosses than Hamidon.
I dunno about that. I'm all for epic adventures and all that, but wasn't BWL like really freaking long, especially before you put it on farm status? (Note: The only time I ever raided BWL was when a group of guildies decided to raid it while we were waiting for frozen throne to come out, so its not exactly like I have first person experience with it). I'd rather have lairs that are completable in 2-3 hours at most even when not on farm status. Something thats reasonably doable in an evening, at least for me.
2 hours max for me. I really don't have time to invest 3+ hours learning a lair.
If they keep it like they have said 45 minutes to 2 hours with 5 people -- I will remain a happy camper.
All these changes are going on the test server first. That is what it is for, after all.
Believe it or not, there are people out there who run their businesses without using test servers for production code, and who have no idea what version control means. Either they don't have the money or they don't wanna take the time. It's a nightmare supporting their software. /aside
Man, the Fight Club mission was really fun. I really like the small instance quests.
When i talked to one of the guys at PAX he said it was a goal of theirs to keep those types of instances small. Like The crime computer missions.
Yeah, it's one of their design ideas that makes me happy, especially after spending years lost in cave missions. A instant mission exit upon mission completion would be nice, though. It's not like enemies respawn, so it's a time-sink to go back through the mission (albeit a small one).
I miss caves! Especially the ones with the giant cylindrical 4 level room at the end! That was a blast, especially when it was Kill All Enemies! Bring it back! Bring it back!
I hope you start at the top level first, get knocked back into the hole by a Tsoo hurricane, and then get gang raped by all the guys you aggro while falling down.
Repeatable "mini instance" quests will make leveling alts more bearable too, I'd prefer not to have to go Canada Crisis, Desert Crisis, Desert, Canada, MC every single time I make an alt.
I hear you on this one. The radio missions they eventually came up with for CoX were nice. It wasn't completely like you were grinding, but it enabled you to go through some parts of the game where the contacts either dried up, where the contacts offered sucky missions, or when you just wanted to go through some pop-corn team missions without worrying who had what mission.
Better safe than sorry. You should probably be using a strong gibberish password anyways, but I know how it gets sometimes as you get beatdown coming up with passwords.
Providing a link for folks who want to know what "strong password" actually means.
The site also actually generates strong passwords if you don't have any idea how to do something random. The site suggests at least using 7 characters, I prefer 8 characters, as that's a very reasonable amount of encryption. Some characters don't work with SQL, Oracle, or other DBs, so depending on how they store passwords/wrote their code (i.e. if they're retards), you may have to lay off of quotes, ampersands, brackets, percent signs.
Note, strong passwords DO NOT INCLUDE THE NAME OF YOUR PET, FAVORITE BAND, OR HARRY POTTER CHARACTER.
Posts
I also haven't found a single MMO that doesn't reward the person with the most time. That is why I like the RMTs, I can complete with the kid to has a lot of time if I want to spend the money.
UO was an open power system also and you would see min/maxers, you would see people with totally useless builds, people with odd builds that would really work well because of how they played, etc...
The game hasn't even been out a month and a lot of you guys are acting like you expect to have it all figured out -- the game is a lot deeper than the standard class based MMO and is supposed to last years, not weeks. I don't see why you expect to have everything figured out in 3 weeks.
You have no idea how fun that sounds, and I utterly hate PvP!
The Raid
This pretty much. People with more time to devote to an activity will, on average, be better than those who don't. TF2, Counterstrike, SSB, F-Zero, WoWArena, whatever, experience gives an advantage. In a game like this or even WoW, knowledge of build composition is as important (if not more so) as dexterous digits.
The only thing they could really do is narrow the gap, and they are working on that via fixing some of the more broken things like: hold resistance not applying correctly, teleporting out of holds, no way to break block (added), ways to break heals (fixed), etc. People with a planned build or coordinated team will still kick the average person's ass though -- you need a certain subset of skills to be viable. And even after they fix these, every degree less of perfect min/max is a degree more of disadvantage you'll face. Things become FotM for a reason
Honestly, if you're looking for PvP without bothering to research builds, pick up an FPS. But map location, gun use, and common tricks/bugs will still be a factor there. Research is the MMOs version of lightning-fast reflexes.
Black Desert: Family Name: Foolery. Characters: Tome & Beerserk.
(Retired) GW2 Characters (Fort Aspenwood): Roy Gee Biv
(Retired) Let's Play: Lone Wolf
I wonder if you guys will still talk to me.
Yes -- just to add, the time thing applies outside of gaming -- spend more time in the weight room, studying, firing range, etc...
Bugs are bugs and can't be beat. The false expectations attached to this game (and others like WAR and WoW) are that it will be perfectly balanced and bug free within a month of release. Lets be realistic, PA is supposed to be a community of gamers who have been playing games for a while. WoW continues to tweak classes every patch, WAR does, heck even Gears of War tweaks balance after release. Things in MMOs get broken and take time to fix. I remember broken raid encounters in WoW, terrible class balance, over balancing and then fixing, etc... This will plague all games and sadly is just something we need to accept with MMOs and software development.
Just to also agree my favorite moments in WoW PvP were when my group of friends would beat the "elite" groups because they were just showing up with their l33t gear and fancy builds, but no tactics. A group with coordinated efforts and smart choices will always win, no matter how well you are doing yourself, you can't beat a team if you are against a coordinated group.
Again, research is key to a MMO. And Champions makes research that much harder. This isn't like WoW where you can go to WoW Wiki, click builds, Holy Paladin and then see the best gear and build for a Holy Paladin. Champions is more like UO where there are a lot of valid choices depending on your play style and will take a lot of trail and error.
Wow, a nerd reference so obscure I'm actually willing to forgive him for Hellgate: London?
I won't. Those guys are lame. Except Zeb. Zeb is cool.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
I've seen people with that SG under their name... what is that about? Just people who really like Club Caprice? Most of them I've seen weren't even furries so I was left confused.
Also, no more dueling in Club Caprice = lamesauce. Seeing all those explosions mixed in with the disco lights is fuckawesome.
Shuuuuuuuuuun
People who RP as the staff to the club.
As for dueling in Club Caprice, I would prefer it if they made use of that internal elevator and made a second floor to the club for those that want power suppression.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
How are people going to fulfill their giantess fetish? How can you simulate humping without chest emanating powers? It just doesn't sound like a nightclub anymore.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Yesterday.
And while I knew it was coming, I'm glad I had a free respec in the bank for my Ice character, since the new Frozen Footsteps makes Ice Wall less effective than Frost Breath for setting up mobs for Chill/Shatter combos.
The bug where Ice Wall doesn't even fire off but instead goes straight to recharging was still there, making it even less appealing.
Was I just reading the patch notes for test?
I came home and respecced my wifes toon INTO ice and the next day was when they announced the change to Ice Wall but I thought the patch had already gone through.
Ugh, this sucks. I was living under the assumption that Ice Wall had already been changed (and it was still pretty damn good! imagine that) and then I play her last night and bam, two even level villains nearly killed me.
I am so sad right now.
I believe it was announced for the test server before the live server. I think it was in the first test server notes, can't check 'cause I'm at work though.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Repeatable "mini instance" quests will make leveling alts more bearable too, I'd prefer not to have to go Canada Crisis, Desert Crisis, Desert, Canada, MC every single time I make an alt.
The Raid
I am with you on that one. I would like to see many more areas in the game, and not just for higher level characters.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
You think I am joking.
I will find you.
I will find you and I will rape you.
I will rape you until you love me.
There seems to be an issue where people have been able to find account login names even if they are different from display/forum names.
Better safe than sorry. You should probably be using a strong gibberish password anyways, but I know how it gets sometimes as you get beatdown coming up with passwords.
I dunno about that. I'm all for epic adventures and all that, but wasn't BWL like really freaking long, especially before you put it on farm status? (Note: The only time I ever raided BWL was when a group of guildies decided to raid it while we were waiting for frozen throne to come out, so its not exactly like I have first person experience with it). I'd rather have lairs that are completable in 2-3 hours at most even when not on farm status. Something thats reasonably doable in an evening, at least for me.
BWL would take about 6 hours if they didn't have that fucking supression room. That usually took an hour in itself because some people were stupid. 3+ hours your first time there...
The Raid
Took 3-5 hours usually, as far as I remember, to do BWL when it was on farm status, depending on how good the group was.
2 hours max for me. I really don't have time to invest 3+ hours learning a lair.
If they keep it like they have said 45 minutes to 2 hours with 5 people -- I will remain a happy camper.
Yeah, it's one of their design ideas that makes me happy, especially after spending years lost in cave missions. A instant mission exit upon mission completion would be nice, though. It's not like enemies respawn, so it's a time-sink to go back through the mission (albeit a small one).
I hope you start at the top level first, get knocked back into the hole by a Tsoo hurricane, and then get gang raped by all the guys you aggro while falling down.
I hear you on this one. The radio missions they eventually came up with for CoX were nice. It wasn't completely like you were grinding, but it enabled you to go through some parts of the game where the contacts either dried up, where the contacts offered sucky missions, or when you just wanted to go through some pop-corn team missions without worrying who had what mission.
Providing a link for folks who want to know what "strong password" actually means.
The site also actually generates strong passwords if you don't have any idea how to do something random. The site suggests at least using 7 characters, I prefer 8 characters, as that's a very reasonable amount of encryption. Some characters don't work with SQL, Oracle, or other DBs, so depending on how they store passwords/wrote their code (i.e. if they're retards), you may have to lay off of quotes, ampersands, brackets, percent signs.
Note, strong passwords DO NOT INCLUDE THE NAME OF YOUR PET, FAVORITE BAND, OR HARRY POTTER CHARACTER.