In a landmark victory for animal rights activists, bullfighting is now banned in Catalonia after a 68-55-9 vote.
Here's the article.
BARCELONA, Spain -- Lawmakers in Catalonia outlawed bullfighting Wednesday, making it Spain's first major region to ban the deadly, centuries-old ballet between matador and beast after heated debate that pitted animal rights against a pillar of traditional culture.
Cheers broke out in the local 135-seat legislature after the speaker announced the ban had passed 68-to-55 with nine abstentions. The ban will take effect in 2012 in the northeastern coastal region whose capital is Barcelona.
Catalonia is a powerful, wealthy area with its own language and culture and a large degree of self-rule. Many in Spain have seen the pressure here for a bullfighting ban as a further bid by Catalonia to stand out from the rest of the country.
The practical effect of the ban will be limited: Catalonia has only one functioning bullring, in Barcelona, while another disused one is being turned into a shopping mall. It stages 15 fights a year which are rarely sold out, out of a nationwide total of roughly 1,000 bouts per season.
Still, bullfighting buffs and Spanish conservatives have taken the drama very seriously, seeing a stinging anti-Spanish rebuke in the grass roots, anti-bullfighting drive which started in the region last year.
But Joan Puigcercos, a lawmaker from a Catalan pro-independence party, insisted this was not about politics or national identity but rather "the suffering of the animal. That is the question, nothing more."
He said that even though attendance at bullfights is on the decline in Spain it would be morally wrong to sit back and just let the Spanish national pastime die a natural death.
However, the Catalan regional president, Jose Montilla, said Catalonia should have done just that - let social customs evolve to the point where bullfighting would vanish on its own, rather than legislate an end to it and deny people's right to choose whether to go the ring.
"I voted against the ban because I believe in freedom," Montilla said.
The result will energize animal rights groups bent on seeking bans in other regions of Spain.
"The suffering of animals in the Catalan bullrings has been abolished once and for all. It has created a precedent we hope will be replicated by other democratic Parliaments internationally, in those regions and countries where such cruel bullfights are still allowed," said Leonardo Anselmi of PROU, the animal rights groups whose signature-collecting campaign late last year forced Catalonia's Parliament to debate and vote.
Bullfighting is also popular in Mexico, parts of South America, southern France and Portugal.
The center-right Popular Party, which is fervent about the idea of Spain as a unified country run from Madrid - and also supports bullfighting - said it will fight back against the ban here.
It will press both chambers of the Spanish Parliament to pass a law giving bullfighting a protected status that will bar regions from outlawing it, said Alicia Sanchez-Camacho, president of the party's Catalan branch.
In the Madrid region, animal rights activists recently presented more than 50,000 signatures as part of a petition to force a similar debate and vote. However, there they face a tougher battle because the Madrid regional parliament is controlled by conservatives who have declared Spain's 'fiesta nacional' to be part of Madrid's cultural heritage.
The first Spanish region to outlaw bullfighting was the Canary Islands, in 1991. But fights were never that popular there and when the ban took effect there had not been a bullfight for seven years. That makes the Catalonia vote a much more potent case, even if bullfighting is not as popular there as it is in Madrid or down south in Andalusia.
Personally, I think that not torturing and murdering animals bred only for the purpose of torture and murder is a more significant gain than any cultural impact that bullfighting may have in Spain. What do you all think? Is this the start of a widespread ban, or just a fringe region that won't affect the other places in Spain where bullfighting is more popular? Do you support this ban or are you afraid it will negatively impact culture/freedom?
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Could be because the two activities serve different goals, but don't take my word for it.
Also, yay, Catalonia!
Niether of which are required apart from personal enjoyment?
Torturing animals for food is different though.
Fact of the matter is that if they weren't capable of providing such a large quantity of nutritious matter, cattle would serve no purpose and desperatley need to be erradicated due to the fact that they are a money pit.
On the topic at hand: Good on catalonia. Bullfighting is a pointless excercise that serves only to torment a living creature for the ammusement of the crowd.
Because?
I mean it's a transparently feel good piece of legislation to let everyone pat their backs on how progressive they are, whilst they choke down another pork chop. It's better then nothing I suppose, but I guarantee the majority of people who will be celebrating it are still meat eaters.
Because eating is different than watching sports.
You're right. I am cheering the end of a senseless practice where in a large bovine is slaughtered so that a guy in a colorful suit can show how much of a man he is. No, I am not a hypocrite for enjoying a giant arby's roast beef sandwhich.
No shit, Sherlock. However, both are indulged with out of enjoyment not necessity, we don’t require eating animals in our diet.
(cue um excuse me humans were designed to eat meat – if I was on a vegetarian diet I’d be sub two hundred fifty pounds and look practically anorexic!)
Have you ever seen a bullfight? Have you ever seen a cow get slaughtered? They are two very different practices.
If by so many you mean 15 in 100 years.
But eating is necessary and watching bullfighting is not.
I'm fine if the bull wins.
I mean, really
This is pretty fucking stupid, also pointless
I mean, obviously this is on Spain but I don't think banning a practice that's been around for literally centuries is a good idea
But whatev's, I'm not a Spaniard and if they feel like this is the right way to go more power to them
So, how 'bout that slavery?
So Einstein, What exactly would you propose that we do with cattle if we don't eat them? Without there value as a food commodity they are effectivley a money pit that no one could afford to take care of on any scale, and as a species would need to be exterminated since they have no place in the wild.
Man that's totally an equivocal analogy to use! Because animals are totally people!
And did you not read the part where I said it's not my country so not my place to judge, and if they feel like they should throw away the rich history of their culture like that than more power to them? Because hey I totally wrote that
It's write there
In the post you quoted
Don't let that stop you from your unnecessary snark though
Bovines aren't rational agents, and thus I feel no obligation to accord them moral status. As a result, I feel quite comfortable doing whatever I feel like to them. Be that eating them, or have them run at Spanairds in fancy costumes for entertainment.
I'd feel differently if we were talking about, say, Dolphins or Chimpanzees whose rationality may not be as reliably doubted. But we're not - we're talking about cows.
So is intelligence the only thing required for moral status? Can we then construct a hierarchy of intelligence for human beings and decide what liberties will be accorded them based on where they are on a scale?
I'm not saying that we should not be allowed to eat cows or chickens. But I think once you make rationality the only deciding factor in treating creatures a humane way... yeah you know the rest.
And bullfighting is pretty nasty compared to killing an animal for meat.
If we all stopped eating cows today and turned them loose it would be an ecological disaster. The cow really isn't a good animal.
If it's cute it gets moral status.
Pandas, Seals, Dolphins, etc..
You said banning a something that is part of your culture is bad. You also said that banning something that has been around for a long time is bad.
Yes, you said that you aren't in spain so whatever, but you still said you think banning things that are part of tradition are bad. You didn't say "banning things that are traditionally bad for ANIMALS AND NOT HUMANS" is bad. You said banning things from tradition is bad.
So I was just point out how stupid that line of reasoning is. I guess I could've said "So how 'bout burning those witches" but it isn't as common an example of something from our past, a tradition if you will, that was banned for good reasons.
Better err on the side of being humane, then, in my opinion.
Also, some humans are incapable of reasoning. No moral status for them?
Well yeah that's basically what we do in general dudes
Also I have literally never heard of a person being incapable of reasoning
And even if such a hypothetical person were to exist, more than likely via being extraordinarily mentally retarded, then that special case would indeed come into being (such as is the case with extremely retarded people being unable to vote or marry etc)
Bullfighting bulls are eaten after they're killed. The ones that don't meet the standards to enter the ring are also killed and eaten.
Actually, bullfighting provides the best chance for Iberian fighting bulls to not be killed. If they're judged to have performed well enough, they can be pardoned and put out to stud.
Not to mention fighting bulls actually live a damn good life up till the fight.
Also, Leitner, but your comments are are pretty silly. Banning bullfighting is a good thing, regardless of whether or not we're allowing some other tangentially-related morally reprehensible practice to continue, whether that other practice is meat-eating or factory-farming or dogfighting.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Bullfighting is a torture blood sport. I'm not being sensationalist with that statement at all, the bull is tortured. I think you probably know all of the things that go into it but if not you should read up on what exactly happens and see some pictures. What is the value to be gained from torturing an animal? Entertainment? Can people not find some other way to be entertained?
I hold a different set of values than you in this regard at least, and I'm willing to respect yours.
Goalpost-moving. You went from 'centuries of tradition' to 'they're not people, so it's okay.'
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Just to be clear I find bullfighting pretty fucked up
But all the same it's their culture. I simply cannot make a judgement call on another country's cultural professions and I find globalization and the elimination of distinctive traits of seperate cultures the truly worrying thing, far moreso than any personal revulsion that I find in the acts contained
I mean, ritualistic African circumcision is some of the most fucked up shit I have ever seen, but there is absolutely no way I could tolerate an outside body saying what they do is "wrong" or "taboo"
Outside of objectively wrong acts (which bullfighting isn't for a myriad number of reasons), we shouldn't be homogenizing culturally significant acts due to any feelings of "morality" or "compassion" we have
We just shouldn't
Oh also I you too
This isn't a coherent position. How do we determine what is and is not objectively wrong without posing and subsequently answering moral questions? And if something is objectively wrong, why does tradition shield it from scrutiny? It's as if traditionalists fear offending long-dead ancestors by sparing future generations.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Because everybody has different ideas of morality and it is never objective.
Yeah, the nature of raising a fighting bull requires it be raised in conditions closer to a Kobe beef cow than standard beef cattle. 4 years of that + 15 minutes of fighting is probably a better overall life than living in a commercial feed lot shithole for 18-24 months.
There's also an issue similar to domesticated beef cattle. Iberian fighting bulls would certainly not exist if not for their use in bullfighting. They're a man-made species bred for strength and hyper-aggression, making them extremely dangerous even in a wildlife preserve. Not even sharks display the levels of aggression that fighting bulls do. They used to be fought against lions and tigers, and the bulls would shred the predators. Similar to pitbulls bred for fighting, virtually all fighting bulls would need to be euthanized or permanently caged.
Morality depends on the culture. Would you eat live sushi, octopus or a frogs heart? Do you think it's wrong? Because there are a lot of people that do and don't care. Who are you to judge in this case.
I'll be pissed if they're all banned by the time I get around to it.