An update on recent technical problems and more from the admin: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/250292/on-technical-difficulties-mod-coverage-and-other-things/p1?new=1
Options
Fiance' constantly rejects me
Alternative22
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I've been with this girl for a while now, I still really, really like her and most of our relationship otherwise is quite good, i don't really have to many other issues. In the beginning of our relationship, she had a very high sex drive, and was very affectionate toward me. Now, many months later, it seems like every day she is less and less affectionate. I don't even need the sex so much as i just want some actual affections, maybe curl up on the couch once and a while or something.
I have to note she puts a lot of emphasis on what I do, and that I should do things a certain way, romantically and sexually. I tried to talk to her about the constant rejection in the past, so she showed me what "got her going" or what have you, that i wasn't doing right (I've never had complaints in the past from anyone else, the opposite, in fact.) I swallowed my pride and took it, for the betterment of the relationship, even though being "showed" really turned me off and made me not want to be creative anymore out of fear of being rejected all the time again. It also stresses me out that everything is always balanced on me, what i do, and that i have to put in all the effort. Sometimes i'd like to have her do something spontaneous to me as well, it's not that fun when im expected to do everything.
Well anyhow, I started doing things her way, and it worked for a bit...a month maybe, and now the constant rejection is back again. She doesn't give an excuse, or a response, she just pushes me away or ignores my advances completely. It's starting to be that we have sex maybe once, or twice a month at most. Our relationship is not that old, we should not be having this issue. I tell her all the time that she is gorgeous, and i truly do think that, in my eyes she is the best, and i have no attraction to other women since i have been with her. Though i think that makes it even more frustrating, i find her very attractive but i am constantly rejected.
It seems to not matter how i approach it, or how romantic i am, i even have tried very spontaneous romance that i put a lot of effort into, she just doesn't seem to respond. I am feeling very rejected and starting to lose the drive to even try anymore. I just can't seem to read her body language anymore, and my advances get rejected so much that i just don't even want to attempt to try because i feel i will just get rejected again and again, since it happens so constantly.
I have had trust issues with her in the past as well that really hurt my side of the relationship (I caught her visiting dating web sites.) so i am a little worried that she is being flakey for a reason. She says when i talk to her about it she is attracted to me, but i just dont get this.
She also sometimes does not tell me she loves me back when i tell her i love her. I am starting to lose hope in this relationship, i can't stay in this when it is like this, constantly being rejected for no reason i can figure out is frustrating, confusing, and it makes me feel incredibly unattractive. I am also feeling a lot of depression because of the lack of affection and the constant rejection as well. I am very stressed and starting to have reservations, and i keep thinking about leaving her to avoid all this stress on myself. But the other half of me wants to stay because i still love her very much.
I just don't know what to do anymore, any and all advice is totally welcome. Also she is not on any kind of medication just to answer that before it is asked.
I have to note she puts a lot of emphasis on what I do, and that I should do things a certain way, romantically and sexually. I tried to talk to her about the constant rejection in the past, so she showed me what "got her going" or what have you, that i wasn't doing right (I've never had complaints in the past from anyone else, the opposite, in fact.) I swallowed my pride and took it, for the betterment of the relationship, even though being "showed" really turned me off and made me not want to be creative anymore out of fear of being rejected all the time again. It also stresses me out that everything is always balanced on me, what i do, and that i have to put in all the effort. Sometimes i'd like to have her do something spontaneous to me as well, it's not that fun when im expected to do everything.
Well anyhow, I started doing things her way, and it worked for a bit...a month maybe, and now the constant rejection is back again. She doesn't give an excuse, or a response, she just pushes me away or ignores my advances completely. It's starting to be that we have sex maybe once, or twice a month at most. Our relationship is not that old, we should not be having this issue. I tell her all the time that she is gorgeous, and i truly do think that, in my eyes she is the best, and i have no attraction to other women since i have been with her. Though i think that makes it even more frustrating, i find her very attractive but i am constantly rejected.
It seems to not matter how i approach it, or how romantic i am, i even have tried very spontaneous romance that i put a lot of effort into, she just doesn't seem to respond. I am feeling very rejected and starting to lose the drive to even try anymore. I just can't seem to read her body language anymore, and my advances get rejected so much that i just don't even want to attempt to try because i feel i will just get rejected again and again, since it happens so constantly.
I have had trust issues with her in the past as well that really hurt my side of the relationship (I caught her visiting dating web sites.) so i am a little worried that she is being flakey for a reason. She says when i talk to her about it she is attracted to me, but i just dont get this.
She also sometimes does not tell me she loves me back when i tell her i love her. I am starting to lose hope in this relationship, i can't stay in this when it is like this, constantly being rejected for no reason i can figure out is frustrating, confusing, and it makes me feel incredibly unattractive. I am also feeling a lot of depression because of the lack of affection and the constant rejection as well. I am very stressed and starting to have reservations, and i keep thinking about leaving her to avoid all this stress on myself. But the other half of me wants to stay because i still love her very much.
I just don't know what to do anymore, any and all advice is totally welcome. Also she is not on any kind of medication just to answer that before it is asked.
Alternative22 on
0
Posts
I am not the best person to give relationship advice, but I want to say you already know the answer to all this and perhaps are looking for validation. She's either losing interest in you or something else is really wrong and you need to figure out what it is.
She didn't say anything constructive until after we got married, and that was 'I want a divorce'.
If she is a fiance, and this is an issue, sort it the fuck out before the wedding. Don't let it sit, cancel wedding plans if its not sorted out.
I fucking hate having to tell women im divorced at my youthful age, and if you can't sort it out now, its going to come up later and be WAY more frustrating.
I'm not offering any anecdotal evidence or anything, but once someone starts making excuses to not be intimate you're generally in a relationship death step.
You already know what to do, and once you find someone to help you forget her, your depression will disappear.
You don't give any information about how long you've been together. If you've been together long enough to be engaged, chances are good you've also been together long enough that you don't need to stop every 5 seconds to go at it like crazed rabbits. That happens in relationships, and for some sooner than others. If you're just feeling a bit blue-balled, try talking to her about it again. If the rest of the relationship is actually good but you feel like you need more sex to validate it, maybe you should be asking yourself why.
Basically, you need to say "why are you so upset?". Her reaction will probably be "i'm not!", which then leads into a long, lengthy discussion about how you feel totally closed out, that you feel like things are not working on a sexual level (which is a very significant level!) and that if the relationship is going to continue there needs to be an explanation.
Something you have to do - you have to resolve to yourself that if you do this, you don't try to persuade her that everything is ok (because from the sounds of it, you really want them to be) - she actually needs to persuade you. If she can't do that, then you're likely in a downward spiral that will result in a failed relationship.
I wouldn't make any assumptions. What I would do is keep pressing her (as gently and persistently as possible) that you need answers and you won't stop until you get them.
This is definitely a fair question to put to him (ie sex as validation), but unless they are old geezers, sex twice a month is definitely abnormal, barring extreme work schedules or some other very well understood mechanism that both parties are comfortable with.
Personally, if my girlfriend only wanted to jump me twice a month, I would be feeling very similar to the OP.
My gf only wants to have sex once every like 2 months... and I definitely feel like the OP, if not worse.
In my experience, the only thing worse than being alone is being in a relationship that makes you unhappy. Problem is, being in a relationship (even a bad one) is like being on drugs; kicking the habit can be hard even if that's what would be best for you... then again, sometimes commitment and good communication you can turn it all around.
One thing's for sure, not trying either approach is going to leave you hating life very quickly.
I suppose I forgot to mention, the talk (that others have mentioned) is #1, do that. But make sure to not come at her with your complaints, come at her with your concerns, but voice them non-accusingly. And make sure to encourage her to share her concerns and don't get defensive listen to what she says, and then (together) come up with a plan that will suit both of you. Relationships take work, but if you put the work in, they can be really amazing.
Sex goes through spurts and valleys in every relationship. Personally, I would be more worried about the lack of communication rather than the lack of sex. But you might need to take part of the responsibility for that. Why did it bother you to have her show you what she likes? Could she tell that conversation/demo made you uncomfortable? That might have made her uncomfortable about communicating about sex which might be why you aren't getting information now.
Really? Thats kind of off-putting to me that you'd be angry/hurt/petulant that your girlfriend might be to tired, too overworked, too stressed or too depressed to be making sexytimes on your schedule. Listen, there is no normal frequency for sex, it depends on each person and their mental and physical situation.
That said, this is more than just a sex or affection issue, OP, this is a communication problem (as old hat as that may seem in these threads). There's nothing wrong with flat out saying "I want to fuck/cuddle/snuggle on the couch/hug you", it shows that you're really serious and that this is a Big Deal to you. If she says no, explain your position with "I feel..." and "I want..." statements and don't let her shrug you off. This is importantand you've both got to put in effort to talk AND listen effectively.
You also might want to look into some pre-marital counseling, this is the sort of issue it was desired for and you'll learn so much about how to communicate well.
Out if curiosity, how old are you two and how long have you been together?
Lime for truth. A lot of times women can also get severe drops in their sex drive for reasons completely out of their control. It even happens thanks to the things we use to be responsible. Sex drive decrease is one of the prime side effects of many birth control methods that involve hormones (pills, hormonal iuds, etc).
Women also change as they get older, hormonal changes are triggered by a lot of things. Its a lot more then just puberty and menopause for women as we age. Hormonal changes can decimate a woman's drive and it could be that she's embarrassed by it or it bothers her too.
Has she changed birth control recently? Started new medication? Started a new job or taken on more responsibility? Maybe try asking her whats wrong without the context of sex or affection, tell her you're worried that she doesn't seem to be acting like herself.
But first I want to get one quick question out of the way. Has she started or stopped any prescription drugs - particularly, antidepressants or birth control? Normally, both of these things reduce sex drive but in some cases they can increase it. It could be that the answer to this mystery is as simple as a pill she's been taking every day.
Why? Is it morally wrong to be angry/hurt that your emotional needs aren't being met in a relationship? (I left out petulant, for a reason.)
No, of course not. You should never feel guilty about feeling bad. That just leads to a destructive downward emotional spiral. What matters is what you do with those emotions - your actions and your words. (Which is why I left out "petulant," because I don't think being petulant is ever a good thing.)
And you're right, there's no "normal" frequency for sex across different human beings, but there was a normal frequency for sex for the OP and his fiance. Yet the relationship has changed, and the OP is feeling powerless and isolated.
There are a few pervasive myths in our culture that complicate this particular issue. One of them is that sexual energy between two people is something that not just comes naturally, but is almost uncontrollable - it's the idea that if two people really love each other and find each other attractive, then they'll want to have sex all the time. That's not always the case! Sexual energy is less like a river barely held back by a dam, and more like a fire that has to be fed and stoked and, occasionally, reignited. It can take effort to maintain that sexual desire in a relationship; don't get trapped in a belief that it should always be effortless. (There's an equal and opposite myth that sex drive is some evanescent uncontrollable phantom that floats in and out your life. It's neither; it's a set of emotions that can be fostered or worked out.)
On top of that, there's going to be a lot of guilt and shame lurking underneath the surface here. The OP is probably feeling guilty that he wants to have sex when his fiance doesn't; and is probably feeling guilty that he's hurting over this. But sex is an important part of a relationship - to pretend that it's not is pretty silly. (If sex weren't a fundamental part of a romantic relationship, then we'd all be looking to marry a platonic best friend, not a significant other of our sexually preferred gender.)
Not having sex often makes a man feel unattractive and unloved. No matter how enlightened and progressive that man is, there's a really gigantic message in our culture that the measure of a Man! is how well he can sexually attract and please a woman.
The fiance is probably feeling guilty that she's not satisfying the OP. There's a similar message to women that being a woman means that she should be sexually available to the man she's in a relationship with. On top of that, there's not a whole lot of pressure on women to really explore and grow their own feelings of sexuality - female sexuality, in our culture, is more a way of pleasing a man and far less a way a woman can feel pleased on her own. She might not even know why she's feeling this loss of sexual energy; but she's probably feeling ashamed of it anyway.
So this issue becomes a big tangled mess of unhealthy cultural and personal expectations. Both parties are disempowered - men are disempowered because we feel like we need to perform socially to be rewarded with sex; women are disempowered because they're encouraged to see sex as a performance they put on as a reward to men. The idea that sex is itself an intrinsically rewarding, emotionally bonding experience between two people who care for each other can end up getting lost in all that static.
The advice other people have echoed to the OP is good. He and his fiance definitely need to talk about it. The question is how. First, the fiance needs to accept and forgive. He needs to do some introspection and make sure he's coming from a compassionate, thoughtful place. He needs to accept that he is a sexual being and that it is okay to want sex and it is okay to feel emotional distress when his partner doesn't want to have sex with him for a long period of time. But he also needs to be prepared to put that aside and listen to his fiance talk about her desires (or lack thereof). It can be hard for women to talk about this sort of thing, and letting her talk about it in her own way is important. (But she eventually needs to talk about it! Total noncommunication is not healthy!)
It helps a lot if the OP comes from the perspective of sex as a shared activity, rather than a transaction. It sounds obvious, but again there are a lot of pervasive messages in our culture that are hard to dismantle once they've been internalized. For instance, rather than saying "I wish you'd have sex with me," saying, "I want to rekindle the sexual part of our relationship" puts the focus back on the relationship rather than on her. Attitudes like "you're not giving me what I want" are going to cause you to move backwards; attitudes like "there's a part of the relationship that's missing and I want to figure out where it went," are going to help you move forwards.
And a big part of this is going to be working with her to explore her sexuality. Your first and most important goal is to understand your fiance. (Actually having sex is a distant secondary goal.) Open-ended questions about how she feels about sex are good. "Remember when we had sex a few times a week? How did it feel when I initiated back then?" and then actually listen. Don't just see the discussion as a formula for getting what you want; the questions are a way you can understand a part of your partner that she's probably ashamed to show you (and may even be ashamed to show herself).
You have to be prepared to stick with her, to talk about this without pressuring her. If she doesn't make any effort to communicate at all after a few more weeks, then doing what Slo and Fantasma suggested and leaving the relationship may be your only recourse. Lack of sex is an obstacle that can be overcome; complete communication failure about an important aspect of the relationship is a death knell. This is going to be a gradual process. She's not going to be ready to jump your bones tomorrow, or next week, or maybe even next month. As long as she shows signs that she's trying to communicate, then you're going to have to accept slow progress.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
I agree with Docken. Unless we're talking serious, insane stress, like the death of a family member or something, twice a month is not what I would consider normal given their current relationship status. Assuming it's normal for her, and her baseline sex drive just doesn't match with his, there will still be problems. He desires attention, and she won't give it to him (even if it was just 10 minutes of boredom so he can feel a little better), so it's going to lead to some very difficult, perhaps unresolvable, problems. Whether or not we want to paint one as normal and one as not normal, at the end of the day, one or both will end up feeling very resentful about the situation.
I think it goes back to what others have said... it sounds like a rushed engagement, and that things definitely need to go much more carefully right now. If the relationship is over, don't let it happen after the wedding.
The point here is that the OP doesn't know why his fiancée doesn't want to be physically affectionate. He needs to find out, because if it's a permanent thing then yes, their sex drives are probably incompatible and I can tell you from personal experience that's a horrible, devastating thing in a marriage.
However! If it's a transient reason (birth control, chronic yeast infection, depression, self esteem issues, work/school craziness, etc) it's absolutely something they can work through if they're willing to communicate openly
As others have pointed out, try not to be accusatory when bringing this up. Just let her know how you feel and what your expectations are, and how you can best accommodate each others' needs. If she can't have a rational, meaningful discussion about these important aspects of your relationship, then she's either checked out of it already or not emotionally mature enough to handle marriage.
Now, don't get me wrong, if we were not having sex and i knew there was a viable reason for it, like she was sick, or tired a lot, then i would understand and it would not bother me much. But as it stands there appears to be very little affection from her end, not just "no sex" but affection in general. I have sat down and tried to talk to her on a few occasions, im not angry, i just want to figure this out. Talking about it usually ends up in her blaming me for something or that its my fault for not doing this or that in just the perfect way. This mindset of hers that everything has to be done by me is very frustrating.
I think i'd like to see some actual effort on that front from her. I am tired of trying so hard to initiate everything, only to be rejected because i didn't do some miniscule thing just right. I even let her show me what she likes so i would know, and that still hasn't worked. I am running out of options, and i just dont understand how i can fix it.
In the end i myself am going to slowly lose the drive to even try anymore, and eventually lose the desire to continue in this relationship. The lack of meaningful affection and general love combined with all the things ive tried to fix it is frustrating me and i just don't know how to move forward.
Yeah, I would have very little patience for that. It has to be a collaborative effort or it doesn't work.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
not to freak you out, but you said you caught her looking at dating sites? thats a red flag coupled with her frigidness. often changes in sexual behavior denotes cheating. her getting pissy at you could be her projecting guilt for possible infidelities. That is not necessarily true, but it's the vibe i'm getting. She could just as easily be freaking out about your upcoming nuptuals and is taking it out on you. basically, talk to her about it. If she refuses to deal with the situation, do NOT get married.
Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst... bleak i know, but true
Of course, this is all based on what you're telling us and it's possible you're misrepresenting the situation. But there's really no reason to play guessing games about what is or isn't true. If you lied to us, you'll get shitty advice because it's based on lies.
Anyway, I don't mean to be a huge jerk in saying this, but if she keeps up the lack of affection, you WILL get tired of it (even more), and the relationship will probably end one way or another. I'm a super affectionate person, so being with someone who hated to cuddle, hold hands, kiss, anything was absolute torture, and I fucking hated it. It got old, fast.
I suggest you sit her down once more and try and talk to her about it. If that doesn't do anything, then I think your best bet would be to cut your losses and move on, especially when you know she was browsing dating sites. That`s fucked up, and I would have confronted her on that big time.
Also, I didn't see you answer this anywhere, but how old are you and her, and how long have you been dating. Inquiring mind must know.
Check out my art! Buy some prints!
Have you told her this? Maybe she grew up in a family where the father initiated everything. Make sure she knows you're serious and seriously hurting. If this doesn't seem to affect her, it's perhaps time to end it.
She still smiles at me, and gives me a light kiss once and a while, but thats about all i've gotten this month so far in terms of any kind of affection. It's starting to get very draining, tonight i don't even have the will or desire to even be in the same bed as her, i just feel frustration, and i feel bad about myself for wanting to be with her and always being rejected, i just dont know what i am doing wrong anymore. I love her, a lot, and i don't want to leave her, but i am getting tired of feeling bad about myself all the time, im sick of being depressed perpetually and feeling like i'm always the bad guy but i dont know why.
I'm afraid to talk to her again about this all as well, because i don't want to start another fight because i know that is what will happen, she'll get pissed off and walk out of the room or pretend like i am not talking to her and not answer, or make up some excuse to make it my fault.
Should i just give her back the engagement ring and tell her I need to take a step back? How do i even do this without ending things completely? I don't want it to be over, but i want her to know i am serious about this, and that i am tired of always feeling bad about myself. Hell, i ditched one of my best friends in the world because my Fiance didn't like her and felt uncomfortable with me talking to her (We had had a short relationship 2 or so years back, which turned into said friendship.), I gave up my life/friends in another town to move out and be with her in a city i knew nobody in. It just feels like i've given up everything to get nowhere.
Yeah. Talk about it, but something isn't working. You probably can't fix it. But talking about it is the first step to ending things in a responsible manner, anyway. It could be you're clingy or whatever because you don't know anyone else and she feels stifled. Have you gained weight or otherwise become unattractive? If it's purely physical you might fix things, but if something emotional or in the dynamic has changed and makes her bummed out then there's not much you can do.
You also don't really articulate much in any detail. Either she's showing you how to get her off and you're resenting her, which is stupid on your end, or she is demanding you approach foreplay in a very narrowly defined way, in which case she is crazy.
She is demanding i approach it in a very defined way. That is why it turns me off. I don't mind at all being shown things that she likes, but being told to do things a specific way is not very fun for me at all, it can often ruin the experience completely for me. Which does not help matters at all. She often contradicts herself as well, she wanted me to be less aggressive and more romantic, so i did that. After doing that she then decided the opposite, she wanted aggressive, and when i didn't do aggressive and still did the romance thing, she got angry at me for not knowing what she wanted from me. I think she sometimes just has completely unreasonable expectations of me in certain areas.
Also no, i haven't gained any weight, in fact i've lost weight from ditching my car and walking everywhere. I also started working out in the mornings, not to look good, but because it helps me vent my frustrations and makes me feel a little better all around. I am not an unattractive man, in fact people make passes at me once and a while at the workplace or when i am out and about. I have never had any trouble with women or rejection in the past. Now i found someone i truly want to be with and thats all i get now. Just my luck. I don't even know how to approach her about this without it blowing up in my face and making things worse, i dont want to blame her for it or something, but i also want to fix it. I don't want to be in a relationship where i feel bad about myself for wanting to be with my fiance.
Yeah, this is all really disrespectful for you. She has a problem, but she's acting like it's your problem.
If you demanded that she stand on one foot and hop on one leg every time she wanted to do something with you, and then were like "eh, nah. not good enough" after she did that, you'd be seen as a complete asshole. But when the tables are turned and sex enters the equation, things get all pear-shaped.
Try talking about it one more time, using the techniques I described in my really long post above. If that doesn't work, then yes give the engagement ring back.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
That's pretty much how my ex used to handle issues as well. Interestingly we had the same issues with sex as you do as well, but I think that's probably more a coincidence
The bottom line is that if she shuts down, it is impossible to work out any issues. If she redirects every issue to be your fault, it is impossible to work out any issues. I know exactly how you feel. It feels like you once had something amazing. Perhaps it still feels like it is amazing except for this ONE LITTLE THING and if only you stick it out long enough... but that isn't going to happen unless she takes some responsibility in the relationship and makes some effort. It can NOT be all on you.
If she isn't going to make any effort, please, stop fooling yourself. You are better off single than living with the situation you are in now. It will hurt a lot for a while, but it gets better. I'd rather be single than be in such a manipulative relationship again.
Perhaps I'm reaching a little too far for this one, but I have a theory.
Is it possible that this girl is extremely immature and is still wrapped up in her high school state of mind (for lack of a better term)?
It sounds to me as though she may have elevated you in her mind to unreachable heights back when she had a thing for you in high school. The problem might be that her mind hasn't changed from that as the years have gone by. Young people tend to have very skewed ideas about what kind of effort relationships actually take. She may be living in some kind of fantasy world where she doesn't have to put in any effort and the man has to do everything correctly for things to work out. I'd be interested to know what kind of relationships she's had in the past.
And shooting off that topic: As someone said earlier, I would also be interested to know how her father acted around her mother. Was he always the initiator of romance around the home? Were her and her mom close and did they talk about relationship dynamics with each other (how a man should act, how a woman should act)? Having some background about her mindset might be useful.
Of course, this is just a theory. It seems like a better idea to Occam's Razor this problem and just address what you've told us: Fiance is not as affectionate/loving/caring as she used to be, it's bringing you down and causing a rift in the relationship. As other people have suggested, you need to face the situation head on without doing it in an accusatory manner. The problem here isn't that no sex is being had, the problem is that there isn't any communication happening in your relationship. You need to find out what the underlying reason for the sex not happening is.
If she's checked out of the relationship, you'll need to realize it quickly and call off the engagement. Staying in when she's obviously out is only going to make you resent her more and is going to make things much worse in the long run. Hopefully it's an issue that can be solved, but you need to protect yourself in the event that it isn't.
Now, I'm not saying this is your fault, if she wanted some alone-time, it's her job to communicate that to you. I tend to be of the "try to make this relationship work" sort before "yeah dude, gtfo while you can". However, I strongly advise against getting married while your relationship is in this state. If the wedding is a few months away, you have a little time, if it's next month (or something) I would say you may need to postpone the wedding until both you and your partner are feeling loved and respected.