I don't want to whore it up or anything, but it's not like I'm making money posting this. And people enjoyed the stories earlier. So for the making of merry-time benefit for later chatters, WW2 stories from my late grandpa.
#1 - Happy Story
So my grandfather was in WW2. He was 19, and loved drinking. He was part of the infantry division that followed Pattons tanks. His specific job I never knew this job existed until he told me was a sort of recon. Every time one of our own planes went down in a dogfight, he was dispatched to blow it up. That was his job. Detonating our own planes to prevent the enemy from retrieving them. However, every time one of our planes went down, there was almost assuredly an enemy German team dispatched to recover it. This led to straight up Call of Duty shit, and the stories are fascinating. But this is the best one.
So one late night. France. It's supernaturally dark and classically foggy. Mission comes from the radio. Plane has gone down. "Here are the coordinates." And my grandfather's off with his team on some kind of flatbed truck with a machine gun in it I think. I don't quite remember. Anyway, as they're furtively making their way through the Parisian countryside, they come through this field, and dark figures are creeping towards them. They call out, "Halt, stop." "We're american soldiers." The figures keep moving forward, toward them. They get nervous. They try German, they give all the appropriate warnings, but the figures keep coming. So after barely a few more tries, they open fire. Lay waste to the whole field. It haunted my grandfather the rest of the night, but they completed their mission and went back to their camp.
Next morning, they go back to the field.
Dead cows. Everywhere. Bloody, shot up dead cows.
#2 - Sad Story
Still in France.
My grandfather would tell us all the time, "I never know that I killed anyone." He would always say it and stare off in the distance. He would say, "You know, you're in a hole, and someone's shooting at you. And you shoot back, and eventually their shooting stops. But you don't know if they're dead, if it was you, anything. I don't ever remember killing anyone." And then he'd... stare.
However, this story came from my grandmother. Because my grandfather never told it anymore.
While stationed somewhere in France, they were next to some farm. Now that I think about it, is all of fucking France just... Paris and farms? The farm was just the farmer and a little girl. Like maybe 10. The farmer became a good friend of his. Most of his off time was spent with that farmer during this period. He'd bring them army supplies, chocolate, whatever.
One day he visits the farm and finds a fellow soldier friend of his in the house, raping the little girl. He shoots his friend on the spot, and helps the farmer bury him. And that was it. The end. My grandfather never wanted to speak of it again.
Bonus stories:
Anyway, he was also a mechanic. Sometimes he'd get semi-regular customers. He had a system of marking in secret spots parts of their car and insisting they get that part replaced. If he was inspecting a car and saw a mark of his he always say, "Didn't I tell you once about your [whatever]? It's about to go. You need a new one." And get them to buy new.
One time he had some young woman buy a new battery because hers was "bad." But, see... His was dead, and hers matched.
My grandfather was also quite fond of Parisian prostitutes. He may have children there. We don't know. I wonder all the time about that.
I am not a fan of unlocking them in a game like LoL. In things like WoW though I understand since it gives you something every time you level up in a game based on making you wanting to play longer to pay for more.
I'd play more if I started with all the talents available to me.
I might have kept playing!
You are probably the exception though than the rule with WoW and the standard community.
Also the Noxus team was poorly designed and had two of the best carries which did nothing. But really no initiators on the team. Oh well. I think I might just play now.
Mazzyx on
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TavIrish Minister for DefenceRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
GY!BE ended up being crap. Post-rock sucks in a live environment when you're in any way sleepy.
I am not a fan of unlocking them in a game like LoL. In things like WoW though I understand since it gives you something every time you level up in a game based on making you wanting to play longer to pay for more.
I'd play more if I started with all the talents available to me.
I might have kept playing!
You are probably the exception though than the rule with WoW and the standard community.
Sorry, you can't use Serra Angel in your deck because you haven't clocked enough hours.
Sorry, you can't use Nob Bikers in your army because you haven't clocked enough hours.
Sorry, your medic can't user ubercharge because you haven't clocked enough hours.
It's a generally retarded idea and needs to go away forever.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
I am not a fan of unlocking them in a game like LoL. In things like WoW though I understand since it gives you something every time you level up in a game based on making you wanting to play longer to pay for more.
I'd play more if I started with all the talents available to me.
I might have kept playing!
Having them unlock is good for new players, because it keeps them from being overwhelmed by too many choices too quickly. They can examine what talents they would prefer as they learn their class.
On the other hand, if someone is experienced, it would be nice to have access to all of it up front.
I am not a fan of unlocking them in a game like LoL. In things like WoW though I understand since it gives you something every time you level up in a game based on making you wanting to play longer to pay for more.
I'd play more if I started with all the talents available to me.
I might have kept playing!
You are probably the exception though than the rule with WoW and the standard community.
Sorry, you can't use Serra Angel in your deck because you haven't clocked enough hours.
Sorry, you can't use Nob Bikers in your army because you haven't clocked enough hours.
Sorry, your medic can't user ubercharge because you haven't clocked enough hours.
It's a generally retarded idea and needs to go away forever.
It's a general facto of human psychology though that talent trees as they are work better. Haven't you ever experienced the phenomenon of cheating in a game, having everything, and quickly losing interest? It happens.
Measured, flow-controlled and tempered progress keeps players longer.
Otherwise we have to come up with a way to allow talent trees that benefit level 1 players AND level 80. Not impossible, but easier the current way.
But it is the point of most mmos to level, gain abilities then raid to gain more items and abilities and increase the ones. That is the draw. In fact leveling and gaining abilities is a pretty standard draw in all rpgs and their derivatives.
Really you are comparing apples and monkey wrenches there Feral. Guess the games like that you just aren't for you.
Also you could say, you can't use Serra Angel because you didn't buy enough packs to draw one. You can't use Nob Bikers because you don't spend enough money to make a full unit.
The last one in TF2 you can't use kritzkrieg because you haven't earned the it through the achievements.
But it is the point of most mmos to level, gain abilities then raid to gain more items and abilities and increase the ones. That is the draw. In fact leveling and gaining abilities is a pretty standard draw in all rpgs and their derivatives.
Really you are comparing apples and monkey wrenches there Feral.Guess the games like that you just aren't for you.
Also you could say, you can't use Serra Angel because you didn't buy enough packs to draw one. You can't use Nob Bikers because you don't spend enough money to make a full unit.
The last one in TF2 you can't use kritzkrieg because you haven't earned the it through the achievements.
Really sorry to pop your bubble.
no, all of those things are like each other. I am right with feral on this... I want to purchase entertainment with dollars, not earn it with time spent doing things I don't enjoy. Anything I have to earn spending time doing things I don't enjoy bothers me and makes me enjoy the game less, and grouping those things together is very legitimate regardless of the reasons other people don't mind this thing that bothers me.
If you're making webcomics because you think you're going to do that for a living, you're a fucking idiot.
Y'know, except the few who made it of course.
That is like buying a lottery ticket and expecting to win.
Well yeah but even Oprah was once quoted as saying "I knew I was destined for greatness" which is a pretty retarded thing to say even though she became a billionaire.
But it is the point of most mmos to level, gain abilities then raid to gain more items and abilities and increase the ones. That is the draw. In fact leveling and gaining abilities is a pretty standard draw in all rpgs and their derivatives.
Really you are comparing apples and monkey wrenches there Feral.Guess the games like that you just aren't for you.
Also you could say, you can't use Serra Angel because you didn't buy enough packs to draw one. You can't use Nob Bikers because you don't spend enough money to make a full unit.
The last one in TF2 you can't use kritzkrieg because you haven't earned the it through the achievements.
Really sorry to pop your bubble.
no, all of those things are like each other. I am right with feral on this... I want to purchase entertainment with dollars, not earn it with time spent doing things I don't enjoy. Anything I have to earn spending time doing things I don't enjoy bothers me and makes me enjoy the game less, and grouping those things together is very legitimate regardless of the reasons other people don't mind this thing that bothers me.
You totally misunderstood Mazzyx there. Feral (and you) are wrong in several of those examples because they are not limited by time spent. They are limited money. Which you claim is exactly what you want: pay money, get your game stuff.
You totally misunderstood Mazzyx there. Feral (and you) are wrong in several of those examples because they are not limited by time spent. They are limited money. Which you claim is exactly what you want: pay money, get your game stuff.
I think you misunderstood my point.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
But it is the point of most mmos to level, gain abilities then raid to gain more items and abilities and increase the ones. That is the draw. In fact leveling and gaining abilities is a pretty standard draw in all rpgs and their derivatives.
Really you are comparing apples and monkey wrenches there Feral.Guess the games like that you just aren't for you.
Also you could say, you can't use Serra Angel because you didn't buy enough packs to draw one. You can't use Nob Bikers because you don't spend enough money to make a full unit.
The last one in TF2 you can't use kritzkrieg because you haven't earned the it through the achievements.
Really sorry to pop your bubble.
no, all of those things are like each other. I am right with feral on this... I want to purchase entertainment with dollars, not earn it with time spent doing things I don't enjoy. Anything I have to earn spending time doing things I don't enjoy bothers me and makes me enjoy the game less, and grouping those things together is very legitimate regardless of the reasons other people don't mind this thing that bothers me.
The game play of WoW is leveling and gaining abilities and such. Thus you spend the 15 a month to get that. If you don't want that then don't get WoW.
Though I agree with games like LoL or TF2 it is stupid because it lessens the main idea of the game. I don't play TF2 anymore because I don't like the item idea or bosses and such. But in WoW it is the design of the game.
In other news, I got a call today to come in for an interview for a job at 3:09 for an interview at 4:30. Just barely had time to shave and run to the bus. Totally aced the interview (though it's the first of a couple).
For some reason though they were all in a rush to bring me in for a job that doesn't start until late January.
RiemannLives on
Attacked by tweeeeeeees!
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Powerpuppiesdrinking coffee in themountain cabinRegistered Userregular
I am not a fan of unlocking them in a game like LoL. In things like WoW though I understand since it gives you something every time you level up in a game based on making you wanting to play longer to pay for more.
I'd play more if I started with all the talents available to me.
I might have kept playing!
Having them unlock is good for new players, because it keeps them from being overwhelmed by too many choices too quickly. They can examine what talents they would prefer as they learn their class.
On the other hand, if someone is experienced, it would be nice to have access to all of it up front.
or just have an unlock talent tree that players can opt out of?
The game play of WoW is leveling and gaining abilities and such. Thus you spend the 15 a month to get that. If you don't want that then don't get WoW.
Though I agree with games like LoL or TF2 it is stupid because it lessens the main idea of the game. I don't play TF2 anymore because I don't like the item idea or bosses and such. But in WoW it is the design of the game.
In WoW what I found most enjoyable was the actual dungeon crawl; being a tank and keeping my team alive, marking targets for crowd control, etc. Frankly, I think that's the draw for a lot of people, which is why people try to level quickly and then get to the endgame, because they don't want to level, they're not paying to level, they're paying to kill monsters in dungeons. That doesn't describe the entire WoW playerbase, obviously, but I don't think any one particular player archetype does.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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Rear Admiral ChocoI wanna be an owl, Jerry!Owl York CityRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
I think what's being said is for good competitive game design every option should be available from the get-go, no additional time/money needed.
I can agree with that for PVP, that's pretty much the best way you could do it. I think I prefer the power to scale up as you go for single-player or cooperative games, though.
You totally misunderstood Mazzyx there. Feral (and you) are wrong in several of those examples because they are not limited by time spent. They are limited money. Which you claim is exactly what you want: pay money, get your game stuff.
The game play of WoW is leveling and gaining abilities and such. Thus you spend the 15 a month to get that. If you don't want that then don't get WoW.
Though I agree with games like LoL or TF2 it is stupid because it lessens the main idea of the game. I don't play TF2 anymore because I don't like the item idea or bosses and such. But in WoW it is the design of the game.
In WoW what I found most enjoyable was the actual dungeon crawl; being a tank and keeping my team alive, marking targets for crowd control, etc. Frankly, I think that's the draw for a lot of people, which is why people try to level quickly and then get to the endgame, because they don't want to level, they're not paying to level, they're paying to kill monsters in dungeons.
On the other hand, as soon as I ever got even close to max level in wow was exactly when I quit. I can't stand the kind of experience "end game" people like.
Posts
my brother plays LoL with his WoW friends so I wouldn't mind being with them for a bit....
that and I've run through all the computer games I really want to play for a while.
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
#1 - Happy Story
So one late night. France. It's supernaturally dark and classically foggy. Mission comes from the radio. Plane has gone down. "Here are the coordinates." And my grandfather's off with his team on some kind of flatbed truck with a machine gun in it I think. I don't quite remember. Anyway, as they're furtively making their way through the Parisian countryside, they come through this field, and dark figures are creeping towards them. They call out, "Halt, stop." "We're american soldiers." The figures keep moving forward, toward them. They get nervous. They try German, they give all the appropriate warnings, but the figures keep coming. So after barely a few more tries, they open fire. Lay waste to the whole field. It haunted my grandfather the rest of the night, but they completed their mission and went back to their camp.
Next morning, they go back to the field.
#2 - Sad Story
My grandfather would tell us all the time, "I never know that I killed anyone." He would always say it and stare off in the distance. He would say, "You know, you're in a hole, and someone's shooting at you. And you shoot back, and eventually their shooting stops. But you don't know if they're dead, if it was you, anything. I don't ever remember killing anyone." And then he'd... stare.
However, this story came from my grandmother. Because my grandfather never told it anymore.
While stationed somewhere in France, they were next to some farm. Now that I think about it, is all of fucking France just... Paris and farms? The farm was just the farmer and a little girl. Like maybe 10. The farmer became a good friend of his. Most of his off time was spent with that farmer during this period. He'd bring them army supplies, chocolate, whatever.
One day he visits the farm and finds a fellow soldier friend of his in the house, raping the little girl. He shoots his friend on the spot, and helps the farmer bury him. And that was it. The end. My grandfather never wanted to speak of it again.
Bonus stories:
One time he had some young woman buy a new battery because hers was "bad." But, see... His was dead, and hers matched.
Later [chat], I'm moving today!
oh god NO MORE TANKS
You are probably the exception though than the rule with WoW and the standard community.
Also the Noxus team was poorly designed and had two of the best carries which did nothing. But really no initiators on the team. Oh well. I think I might just play now.
Down like a clown, Charlie Brown.
Y'know, except the few who made it of course.
Sorry, you can't use Serra Angel in your deck because you haven't clocked enough hours.
Sorry, you can't use Nob Bikers in your army because you haven't clocked enough hours.
Sorry, your medic can't user ubercharge because you haven't clocked enough hours.
It's a generally retarded idea and needs to go away forever.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Having them unlock is good for new players, because it keeps them from being overwhelmed by too many choices too quickly. They can examine what talents they would prefer as they learn their class.
On the other hand, if someone is experienced, it would be nice to have access to all of it up front.
it's not really equivalent to any of your examples
you could make a good case against having to unlock heroes, but I think the free hero setup deals with that anyway
It's a general facto of human psychology though that talent trees as they are work better. Haven't you ever experienced the phenomenon of cheating in a game, having everything, and quickly losing interest? It happens.
Measured, flow-controlled and tempered progress keeps players longer.
Otherwise we have to come up with a way to allow talent trees that benefit level 1 players AND level 80. Not impossible, but easier the current way.
Really you are comparing apples and monkey wrenches there Feral. Guess the games like that you just aren't for you.
Also you could say, you can't use Serra Angel because you didn't buy enough packs to draw one. You can't use Nob Bikers because you don't spend enough money to make a full unit.
The last one in TF2 you can't use kritzkrieg because you haven't earned the it through the achievements.
Really sorry to pop your bubble.
eddy and deebaser
y'all looking to play or what
same with trying to write a book. most authors can't support themselves with book sales and work a regular job.
Which is exactly why I stopped playing TF2.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
sure but I don't know what level deebaser is and if it would be a good idea to play with him
no, all of those things are like each other. I am right with feral on this... I want to purchase entertainment with dollars, not earn it with time spent doing things I don't enjoy. Anything I have to earn spending time doing things I don't enjoy bothers me and makes me enjoy the game less, and grouping those things together is very legitimate regardless of the reasons other people don't mind this thing that bothers me.
So it's a lazy substitute for good game design. No argument from me there.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
we'll try to inhouse
we can all play new chars to help mitigate it
ooh i want to play LoL
Well yeah but even Oprah was once quoted as saying "I knew I was destined for greatness" which is a pretty retarded thing to say even though she became a billionaire.
yeah but you fart a bunch : /
You totally misunderstood Mazzyx there. Feral (and you) are wrong in several of those examples because they are not limited by time spent. They are limited money. Which you claim is exactly what you want: pay money, get your game stuff.
In a PvE game like WoW (*cough*) it's a little more forgivable to have talents unlock. In a PvP game like LoL or TF2 I think it's pretty bad.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
I dropped my goddamn fries.
I think you misunderstood my point.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
The game play of WoW is leveling and gaining abilities and such. Thus you spend the 15 a month to get that. If you don't want that then don't get WoW.
Though I agree with games like LoL or TF2 it is stupid because it lessens the main idea of the game. I don't play TF2 anymore because I don't like the item idea or bosses and such. But in WoW it is the design of the game.
For some reason though they were all in a rush to bring me in for a job that doesn't start until late January.
or just have an unlock talent tree that players can opt out of?
In WoW what I found most enjoyable was the actual dungeon crawl; being a tank and keeping my team alive, marking targets for crowd control, etc. Frankly, I think that's the draw for a lot of people, which is why people try to level quickly and then get to the endgame, because they don't want to level, they're not paying to level, they're paying to kill monsters in dungeons. That doesn't describe the entire WoW playerbase, obviously, but I don't think any one particular player archetype does.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
I can agree with that for PVP, that's pretty much the best way you could do it. I think I prefer the power to scale up as you go for single-player or cooperative games, though.
Then i did misunderstand. Sorry duders
On the other hand, as soon as I ever got even close to max level in wow was exactly when I quit. I can't stand the kind of experience "end game" people like.