People who gripe about disk-swapping make me want to punch them right in the father-berries. That's the kind of useless whining which gets us stuck with 10-hour games which end just as they get started instead of stories which run upwards of 30+ hours. Should we all also whine about how stupid it is to have text instead of all voice acting because nobody wants to read in a game, right?
The only thing I care about with disk swapping is that there's no good reason to not be able to install the secondary disks to the hard drive and only need to have the first disk in the tray to actually play the game. That's how Forza 3 works, so why doesn't something like Dead Space 2 have the same thing? But otherwise, I'm a long way from being enough of a lazy fatass to object to hauling my carcass off the couch, walking ten feet, and replacing a disk after a mere several hours of gameplay. Still beats the ever-loving hell out of the extended load times from the old days.
Relax?
Also, I would think that not having millions and millions of dollars in your budget would be more responsible for game length these days than this "deluge" of whining about disc swapping. Those hours of gameplay didn't suddenly make Final Fantasy XIII not tedious. It was awful on any number of discs.
I still plan to pick up Mass Effect 3 for the 360, regardless of disc-swapping, because that's where my Shepard lives.
There is a big difference between disc swapping at certain points during a linear story, and disc swapping every time you decide to go to a place in a non-linear game.
The FFs and MGS on PS1 weren't too bad in that sense.
I hated disk swapping in the ME2 for one reason: the recruitment quests were split onto both disks so you're forced to wait until past the halfway point before getting any of the 2nd disk guys.
The original plan was to have all the recruitment missions available from the get-go, I believe, but the disc memory fucked that up.
But for games like Lost Odyssey and FF13? If it gives the developers more space for FMVs and such I'm all for it, even if I still have a 20gig HD.
Speaking of Wired, Chris Kohler reviewed Bulletstorm. He liked the game's mechanics, but said it's unfortunate that the game is essentially the world's longest dick joke. He ended the review with this priceless quote:
It’s just a shame the developers couldn’t stop thinking about reproductive anatomy. It is their Achilles’ penis.
I hated disk swapping in the ME2 for one reason: the recruitment quests were split onto both disks so you're forced to wait until past the halfway point before getting any of the 2nd disk guys.
The original plan was to have all the recruitment missions available from the get-go, I believe, but the disc memory fucked that up.
But for games like Lost Odyssey and FF13? If it gives the developers more space for FMVs and such I'm all for it, even if I still have a 20gig HD.
Do those games actually have cutscenes that couldn't be done in realtime?
When I played Darksiders, I noticed immediately that all the cutscenes looked significantly worse than gameplay because of video compression. And I didn't see any reason the cutscenes in that game couldn't have been done in realtime.
I hated disk swapping in the ME2 for one reason: the recruitment quests were split onto both disks so you're forced to wait until past the halfway point before getting any of the 2nd disk guys.
The original plan was to have all the recruitment missions available from the get-go, I believe, but the disc memory fucked that up.
But for games like Lost Odyssey and FF13? If it gives the developers more space for FMVs and such I'm all for it, even if I still have a 20gig HD.
Do those games actually have cutscenes that couldn't be done in realtime?
When I played Darksiders, I noticed immediately that all the cutscenes looked significantly worse than gameplay because of video compression. And I didn't see any reason the cutscenes in that game couldn't have been done in realtime.
That raises an interesting debate. Do people perfer in-game/in-engine cutscenes cause they feel more authentic, or do they prefer FMV and the like for a more scripted, movie-ish take on scenes?
You can throw in animated cutscenes in there as well, where games will cut to a fully-animated 10-second to 1-minute long cutscene then dump back into the main game.
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That seems kind of extreme. What's wrong with a little anime video with J-pop at the intro to your Rune Factory game, and maybe a scene at the end? Video's a nice enhancement to games.
That seems kind of extreme. What's wrong with a little anime video with J-pop at the intro to your Rune Factory game, and maybe a scene at the end? Video's a nice enhancement to games.
Fine, you can put FMVs in the title and ending credits, but that's it.
I will agree to that! Back in the days of the PS1 I used to look forward to the next FMV I would get to watch during my game, I treated them almost like rewards for playing.
With the current generation of consoles I much prefer in-engine cutscenes. The differences between the FMV and in-game models is quite annoying.
I think both in-game and FMV cut scenes have their place. Intro to a boss fight? An in-game cutscene drawing straight into the fight itself (you know, where the camera pans around to everyone in their combat animation as the HuD fades in) is going to be more immersive.
But for big game changing events? FMVs all the way. I don't know about you guys, but when Shepard blows up the reaper fleet above Earth, I want it as good looking and cinematic as possible.
That raises an interesting debate. Do people perfer in-game/in-engine cutscenes cause they feel more authentic, or do they prefer FMV and the like for a more scripted, movie-ish take on scenes?
You can throw in animated cutscenes in there as well, where games will cut to a fully-animated 10-second to 1-minute long cutscene then dump back into the main game.
Bwuh? How is pre-rendered cutscenes more "movie-ish" than realtime cutscenes?
I prefer high production value cut scenes. I mean, if you're going to do a shitty job of it, then sure use the engine.
Otherwise, gimme all the high quality art.
I don't know how common it is, but as I just mentioned, there are games that use pre-rendered cutscenes that look significantly worse than the gameplay and mostly look like they could have been done realtime.
How many recent games have cutscenes that look significantly better than or completely different from gameplay? Off the top of my head I can think of Starcraft 2 and Civilization 5 (in which the intro is the only cutscene).
Speaking of Wired, Chris Kohler reviewed Bulletstorm. He liked the game's mechanics, but said it's unfortunate that the game is essentially the world's longest dick joke. He ended the review with this priceless quote:
It’s just a shame the developers couldn’t stop thinking about reproductive anatomy. It is their Achilles’ penis.
I don’t think kids should play Bulletstorm. Not because it will make them want to be violent, but because it will teach them to not be hilarious.
I'm am highly amused that he tried to make a witty joke there but seems to have forgotten that the only reason people say achille's heel is because his heel was the only part of him in the legend that was vulnerable.
Achille's penis was indestructible.
He's actually complimenting the bulletstorm directors by equating their sense of humor to something that is superior. A super-schlong, if you will.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Speaking of Wired, Chris Kohler reviewed Bulletstorm. He liked the game's mechanics, but said it's unfortunate that the game is essentially the world's longest dick joke. He ended the review with this priceless quote:
It’s just a shame the developers couldn’t stop thinking about reproductive anatomy. It is their Achilles’ penis.
I don’t think kids should play Bulletstorm. Not because it will make them want to be violent, but because it will teach them to not be hilarious.
I'm am highly amused that he tried to make a witty joke there but seems to have forgotten that the only reason people say achille's heel is because his heel was the only part of him in the legend that was vulnerable.
Achille's penis was indestructible.
He's actually complimenting the bulletstorm directors by equating their sense of humor to something that is superior. A super-schlong, if you will.
Nah. When people generally say "Achilles (non-heel body part)," they generally mean that the body part in question is the thing that's vulnerable. Hence, Kryptonite dick.
Then again I have too many English degrees and spend far too much time deconstructing offhand crap.
Bwuh? How is pre-rendered cutscenes more "movie-ish" than realtime cutscenes?
It sounds like you're picturing a camera pan up to a dude's face as he gasps with rage and yells at the boss, in-engine vs. slightly-upgraded-model or possibly not upgraded at all. This is a very limited point of view. It's more "movie-ish" to have better lighting, more realistic flora and fauna, realistic physics in a game not programmed for it (FFX, for example), bigger and better explosions, huge crowd scenes...basically any number of things that are still impossible to do in-engine, or would require too much time and effort to make sure you can show it without dropping frames, or needing to tweak and optimize everything to pull it off.
Especially when you can't count on everyone's PC having the same amount of power. Maybe you could pull off that huge crowd scene on one guy's computer, but someone else gets extreme slowdown at that point despite the rest of the game being playable. Is it really worth these things when you could just render it and let everyone see it the same way without any trouble or screwing around?
The only thing I care about with disk swapping is that there's no good reason to not be able to install the secondary disks to the hard drive and only need to have the first disk in the tray to actually play the game. That's how Forza 3 works, so why doesn't something like Dead Space 2 have the same thing?
Easy:
They don't do it because then you have two copies of the game for the price of one.
I install both disks on my 360, use CD1. You install both on your 360 and take CD2. You just got the game for free.
That raises an interesting debate. Do people perfer in-game/in-engine cutscenes cause they feel more authentic, or do they prefer FMV and the like for a more scripted, movie-ish take on scenes?
You can throw in animated cutscenes in there as well, where games will cut to a fully-animated 10-second to 1-minute long cutscene then dump back into the main game.
Bwuh? How is pre-rendered cutscenes more "movie-ish" than realtime cutscenes?
Does 'Looks more like a movie' work? Pre-rendered or in-game, you still direct, move the camera, and have actors, so the only difference is if you prefer this:
I'm neutral on my preference. Well, actually, whatever can be given to me most is what I'll be happier with. So usually that's in-game cutscene over the pre-rendered, simply because of the time/cost that goes into them.
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The only thing I care about with disk swapping is that there's no good reason to not be able to install the secondary disks to the hard drive and only need to have the first disk in the tray to actually play the game. That's how Forza 3 works, so why doesn't something like Dead Space 2 have the same thing?
Easy:
They don't do it because then you have two copies of the game for the price of one.
I install both disks on my 360, use CD1. You install both on your 360 and take CD2. You just got the game for free.
Well that's easily resolved: only disc 1 works for playing the game all the time and disc 2 is just there for the install (or optionally playing from when required). If the second person only has CD2, they can only play parts of the game that are on disc 2, because disc 1 can't be installed.
Basically this is no different from FF7 - you could play through disc 1, then give it to your friend while you start playing disc 2. When you're done with that, you give it to your friend, etc.
The only thing I care about with disk swapping is that there's no good reason to not be able to install the secondary disks to the hard drive and only need to have the first disk in the tray to actually play the game. That's how Forza 3 works, so why doesn't something like Dead Space 2 have the same thing?
Easy:
They don't do it because then you have two copies of the game for the price of one.
I install both disks on my 360, use CD1. You install both on your 360 and take CD2. You just got the game for free.
Well that's easily resolved: only disc 1 works for playing the game all the time and disc 2 is just there for the install (or optionally playing from when required). If the second person only has CD2, they can only play parts of the game that are on disc 2, because disc 1 can't be installed.
Didn't the new Castlevania do something where you could install the game, and you had to have the second disc in specifically to play it? That's a nice fix. I played it on PS3, so I'm not %100 sure.
So the game only runs if Disc 1 is in the tray. Yes, that would work.
Well no, installation would still be optional and you could start playing from disc 2 for convenience. You just can't play the whole game using either disc.
Your options are use disc 1 the entire time, or use disc 1 and swap to disc 2 when required.
So the game only runs if Disc 1 is in the tray. Yes, that would work.
Well no, installation would still be optional and you could start playing from disc 2 for convenience. You just can't play the whole game using either disc.
Your options are use disc 1 the entire time, or use disc 1 and swap to disc 2 when required.
No, I meant if you have both discs installed, only Disc 1 will work.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
Speaking of Wired, Chris Kohler reviewed Bulletstorm. He liked the game's mechanics, but said it's unfortunate that the game is essentially the world's longest dick joke. He ended the review with this priceless quote:
It’s just a shame the developers couldn’t stop thinking about reproductive anatomy. It is their Achilles’ penis.
I don’t think kids should play Bulletstorm. Not because it will make them want to be violent, but because it will teach them to not be hilarious.
I'm am highly amused that he tried to make a witty joke there but seems to have forgotten that the only reason people say achille's heel is because his heel was the only part of him in the legend that was vulnerable.
Achille's penis was indestructible.
He's actually complimenting the bulletstorm directors by equating their sense of humor to something that is superior. A super-schlong, if you will.
Nah. When people generally say "Achilles (non-heel body part)," they generally mean that the body part in question is the thing that's vulnerable. Hence, Kryptonite dick.
Then again I have too many English degrees and spend far too much time deconstructing offhand crap.
I don't care what people intend to say you know. I care about what people actually communicated.
I'm pointing out what he communicated.
There's lots and lots of things that people say that are supposed to mean one thing and actually can be taken another way that is much more amusing.
If you talk about achille's "anything but heel" then you are making an error, which has hilarious results. Sorry to say.
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KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
edited February 2011
Seems like that was Morninglord's Achille's Quote.
And by the time you get to Achilles' Heal, a mediocre spell that does nothing more than raise your spirits instead of otherwise restoring your health, you've already passed the last stop and taken the train off the tracks.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited February 2011
Alright guys let me explain this another way.
If he had said that in a bar while we are having drinks and said
"I guess it is their achilles penis"
and I had replied with
"Yeah but achilles penis was indestructible"
and had a big grin on my face.
everyone would have realised that it was a retort of the humorous variety and not taken it anywhere near as seriously as you all are.
Stop defending the damn thing I'm not being super serious boy I'm laughing at it and making a retort because I disagree with his opinion.
Morninglord on
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I hated disk swapping in the ME2 for one reason: the recruitment quests were split onto both disks so you're forced to wait until past the halfway point before getting any of the 2nd disk guys.
The original plan was to have all the recruitment missions available from the get-go, I believe, but the disc memory fucked that up.
But for games like Lost Odyssey and FF13? If it gives the developers more space for FMVs and such I'm all for it, even if I still have a 20gig HD.
Do those games actually have cutscenes that couldn't be done in realtime?
When I played Darksiders, I noticed immediately that all the cutscenes looked significantly worse than gameplay because of video compression. And I didn't see any reason the cutscenes in that game couldn't have been done in realtime.
That raises an interesting debate. Do people perfer in-game/in-engine cutscenes cause they feel more authentic, or do they prefer FMV and the like for a more scripted, movie-ish take on scenes?
You can throw in animated cutscenes in there as well, where games will cut to a fully-animated 10-second to 1-minute long cutscene then dump back into the main game.
Either are alright, but pre-rendered in-engine cutscenes? The epitome of sillyness. Especially with how noticeable it is when your AA/AF suddenly disappear.
It's a joke and a play on a phrase. Being mythologically correct wouldn't have been nearly as funny.
It is Achilles’ Heel if Achilles had a penis for a heel.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited February 2011
It's also meta amusing that we as a species can so easily take a phrase that means one thing then corrupt it so that it no longer means that thing but then reassociate its meaning completely and still be able to laugh at it.
People are so complex it's great.
Uh that might have been too psych nerdy to be funny for anyone else tho. Sorry.
How is bulletstorm selling right now anyway?
Morninglord on
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Relax?
Also, I would think that not having millions and millions of dollars in your budget would be more responsible for game length these days than this "deluge" of whining about disc swapping. Those hours of gameplay didn't suddenly make Final Fantasy XIII not tedious. It was awful on any number of discs.
I still plan to pick up Mass Effect 3 for the 360, regardless of disc-swapping, because that's where my Shepard lives.
The FFs and MGS on PS1 weren't too bad in that sense.
The original plan was to have all the recruitment missions available from the get-go, I believe, but the disc memory fucked that up.
But for games like Lost Odyssey and FF13? If it gives the developers more space for FMVs and such I'm all for it, even if I still have a 20gig HD.
Now THAT is quality schlong humor.
http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2011/02/bulletstorm-review/
Edit:
Do those games actually have cutscenes that couldn't be done in realtime?
When I played Darksiders, I noticed immediately that all the cutscenes looked significantly worse than gameplay because of video compression. And I didn't see any reason the cutscenes in that game couldn't have been done in realtime.
You can throw in animated cutscenes in there as well, where games will cut to a fully-animated 10-second to 1-minute long cutscene then dump back into the main game.
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"Did ya hear the one about the mussel that wanted to purchase Valve? Seems like the bivalve had a juicy offer on the table but the company flat-out refused and decided to immediately clam up!"
:^::^:
Otherwise, gimme all the high quality art.
Fine, you can put FMVs in the title and ending credits, but that's it.
With the current generation of consoles I much prefer in-engine cutscenes. The differences between the FMV and in-game models is quite annoying.
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But for big game changing events? FMVs all the way. I don't know about you guys, but when Shepard blows up the reaper fleet above Earth, I want it as good looking and cinematic as possible.
Bwuh? How is pre-rendered cutscenes more "movie-ish" than realtime cutscenes?
I don't know how common it is, but as I just mentioned, there are games that use pre-rendered cutscenes that look significantly worse than the gameplay and mostly look like they could have been done realtime.
How many recent games have cutscenes that look significantly better than or completely different from gameplay? Off the top of my head I can think of Starcraft 2 and Civilization 5 (in which the intro is the only cutscene).
I'm am highly amused that he tried to make a witty joke there but seems to have forgotten that the only reason people say achille's heel is because his heel was the only part of him in the legend that was vulnerable.
Achille's penis was indestructible.
He's actually complimenting the bulletstorm directors by equating their sense of humor to something that is superior. A super-schlong, if you will.
Nah. When people generally say "Achilles (non-heel body part)," they generally mean that the body part in question is the thing that's vulnerable. Hence, Kryptonite dick.
Then again I have too many English degrees and spend far too much time deconstructing offhand crap.
It sounds like you're picturing a camera pan up to a dude's face as he gasps with rage and yells at the boss, in-engine vs. slightly-upgraded-model or possibly not upgraded at all. This is a very limited point of view. It's more "movie-ish" to have better lighting, more realistic flora and fauna, realistic physics in a game not programmed for it (FFX, for example), bigger and better explosions, huge crowd scenes...basically any number of things that are still impossible to do in-engine, or would require too much time and effort to make sure you can show it without dropping frames, or needing to tweak and optimize everything to pull it off.
Especially when you can't count on everyone's PC having the same amount of power. Maybe you could pull off that huge crowd scene on one guy's computer, but someone else gets extreme slowdown at that point despite the rest of the game being playable. Is it really worth these things when you could just render it and let everyone see it the same way without any trouble or screwing around?
Easy:
They don't do it because then you have two copies of the game for the price of one.
I install both disks on my 360, use CD1. You install both on your 360 and take CD2. You just got the game for free.
Does 'Looks more like a movie' work? Pre-rendered or in-game, you still direct, move the camera, and have actors, so the only difference is if you prefer this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ToztqqDcaY
over this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ORTIHfBWQ
or this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muCtJsy-d9w
I'm neutral on my preference. Well, actually, whatever can be given to me most is what I'll be happier with. So usually that's in-game cutscene over the pre-rendered, simply because of the time/cost that goes into them.
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"Did ya hear the one about the mussel that wanted to purchase Valve? Seems like the bivalve had a juicy offer on the table but the company flat-out refused and decided to immediately clam up!"
Well that's easily resolved: only disc 1 works for playing the game all the time and disc 2 is just there for the install (or optionally playing from when required). If the second person only has CD2, they can only play parts of the game that are on disc 2, because disc 1 can't be installed.
Basically this is no different from FF7 - you could play through disc 1, then give it to your friend while you start playing disc 2. When you're done with that, you give it to your friend, etc.
Didn't the new Castlevania do something where you could install the game, and you had to have the second disc in specifically to play it? That's a nice fix. I played it on PS3, so I'm not %100 sure.
Well no, installation would still be optional and you could start playing from disc 2 for convenience. You just can't play the whole game using either disc.
Your options are use disc 1 the entire time, or use disc 1 and swap to disc 2 when required.
EDIT: Yeah.
No, I meant if you have both discs installed, only Disc 1 will work.
I don't care what people intend to say you know. I care about what people actually communicated.
I'm pointing out what he communicated.
There's lots and lots of things that people say that are supposed to mean one thing and actually can be taken another way that is much more amusing.
If you talk about achille's "anything but heel" then you are making an error, which has hilarious results. Sorry to say.
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Complaining about dick jokes while making one. NO SENSE!
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"Did ya hear the one about the mussel that wanted to purchase Valve? Seems like the bivalve had a juicy offer on the table but the company flat-out refused and decided to immediately clam up!"
If he had said that in a bar while we are having drinks and said
"I guess it is their achilles penis"
and I had replied with
"Yeah but achilles penis was indestructible"
and had a big grin on my face.
everyone would have realised that it was a retort of the humorous variety and not taken it anywhere near as seriously as you all are.
Stop defending the damn thing I'm not being super serious boy I'm laughing at it and making a retort because I disagree with his opinion.
It is Achilles’ Heel if Achilles had a penis for a heel.
I never asked for this!
People are so complex it's great.
Uh that might have been too psych nerdy to be funny for anyone else tho. Sorry.
How is bulletstorm selling right now anyway?
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?p=18442323#post18442323