For fucking serious, this is incredibly, offensively intrusive.
I legitimately hate the sort of people with the sheer thoughtless determination to treat the customer as an enemy. "Oh! We can totally extract more per month out of people with this! Should we ask them? Inform them? Think about them for more than a second?" "Naaah."
So does anyone know how electronic privacy laws work as far as jurisdiction is concerned? Etsy is New York based. What they're doing is clearly suspect under Canadian law (PIPEDA) and may be worthy of an investigation. But I don't know how applicable that is to American organizations.
I'm strongly considering sending a complaint to the Privacy Commissioner.
Emailed their office last night, asking them to investigate.
For fucking serious, this is incredibly, offensively intrusive.
I legitimately hate the sort of people with the sheer thoughtless determination to treat the customer as an enemy. "Oh! We can totally extract more per month out of people with this! Should we ask them? Inform them? Think about them for more than a second?" "Naaah."
I don't think it's so much treating the customer as an enemy as just being incredibly, mind-bogglingly stupid.
Basically, everyone wants to be Facebook. Because they are fucking morons.
For fucking serious, this is incredibly, offensively intrusive.
I legitimately hate the sort of people with the sheer thoughtless determination to treat the customer as an enemy. "Oh! We can totally extract more per month out of people with this! Should we ask them? Inform them? Think about them for more than a second?" "Naaah."
I don't think it's so much treating the customer as an enemy as just being incredibly, mind-bogglingly stupid.
Basically, everyone wants to be Facebook. Because they are fucking morons.
This is it, really.
Facebook.
Everyone wants to be Facebook. It's just absurd. No site is going to hybrid itself into a pseudo social networking site on top of whatever they already did and be successful.
They just need to stick to their niche and keep being successful in what they were doing instead of reaching for the unreachable.
For fucking serious, this is incredibly, offensively intrusive.
I legitimately hate the sort of people with the sheer thoughtless determination to treat the customer as an enemy. "Oh! We can totally extract more per month out of people with this! Should we ask them? Inform them? Think about them for more than a second?" "Naaah."
I don't think it's so much treating the customer as an enemy as just being incredibly, mind-bogglingly stupid.
Basically, everyone wants to be Facebook. Because they are fucking morons.
This is it, really.
Facebook.
Everyone wants to be Facebook. It's just absurd. No site is going to hybrid itself into a pseudo social networking site on top of whatever they already did and be successful.
They just need to stick to their niche and keep being successful in what they were doing instead of reaching for the unreachable.
That's sort of what I mean though. They're not trying to figure out how to serve as the best possible version of their site. They're trying desperately to figure out how to trick people into coming to their cool new social network/rewards program/whatever-the-fuck. It's antagonistic in the complete lack of any concern over the actual needs and wants of the people they're supposed to be serving.
Except they DO think it will make their site better. The logic is "People love Facebook. So my site should be more like Facebook." They think being more like Facebook will better serve their customers because people like Facebook and therefore Facebook is doing something good for them so my site should do the same by being more like Facebook.
Admins closed the discussion thread by saying that negative references to any person or shop ("calling out") on discussion forums on Etsy won't be tolerated.
There's also an massive thread from February about the email-search feature: http://www.etsy.com/teams/7718/site-help/discuss/6762009/page/1
The first page is a collection of the most asinine excuses administration could come up with, and by the 527th page buyers have starting wandering in, demanding to know why they are still coming up in searches after opting out.
Except they DO think it will make their site better. The logic is "People love Facebook. So my site should be more like Facebook." They think being more like Facebook will better serve their customers because people like Facebook and therefore Facebook is doing something good for them so my site should do the same by being more like Facebook.
And yeah, it's fucking stupid.
That is a good point. Thoughtlessness isn't exactly malice, but it does deserve being realllly raked over the coals.
It's not like this is an isolated incidence of fuckery on the part of Etsy's owners, though. Like, the site is fun and there are a lot of genuinely good artists and crafters on there, but there's also a large segment of chinese resellers using it as ebay (only asking for more money for their stuff because they're pretending its handmade), and a large segment of people who I'm amazed can even use a keyboard, gluing random generic craft supplies together and asking big money for their 'work' or posting junk they found in their garage/attic/bellybutton and labelling it 'vintage'.
I mentioned Regretsy.com mostly for the lulz, but that blog does highlight these problems quite neatly.
It's not like this is an isolated incidence of fuckery on the part of Etsy's owners, though. Like, the site is fun and there are a lot of genuinely good artists and crafters on there, but there's also a large segment of chinese resellers using it as ebay (only asking for more money for their stuff because they're pretending its handmade), and a large segment of people who I'm amazed can even use a keyboard, gluing random generic craft supplies together and asking big money for their 'work' or posting junk they found in their garage/attic/bellybutton and labelling it 'vintage'.
I mentioned Regretsy.com mostly for the lulz, but that blog does highlight these problems quite neatly.
That doesn't seem like fuckmuppetry on the part of Etsy's owners though. It just sounds like the kind of bullshit you'd expect on any site of this sort on the internet.
Admins closed the discussion thread by saying that negative references to any person or shop ("calling out") on discussion forums on Etsy won't be tolerated.
Why would that be, I wonder?
Oh hai. On page 120, there was a link posted pointing out that one of their sellers (of knitted products, some quilts) was also a buyer. Of sex toys. Thread closed!
Admins closed the discussion thread by saying that negative references to any person or shop ("calling out") on discussion forums on Etsy won't be tolerated.
Why would that be, I wonder?
Oh hai. On page 120, there was a link posted pointing out that one of their sellers (of knitted products, some quilts) was also a buyer. Of sex toys. Thread closed!
Yeah, only admin's allowed to publish knitters' fetishes. Duh. </sarcasm>
It's not like this is an isolated incidence of fuckery on the part of Etsy's owners, though. Like, the site is fun and there are a lot of genuinely good artists and crafters on there, but there's also a large segment of chinese resellers using it as ebay (only asking for more money for their stuff because they're pretending its handmade), and a large segment of people who I'm amazed can even use a keyboard, gluing random generic craft supplies together and asking big money for their 'work' or posting junk they found in their garage/attic/bellybutton and labelling it 'vintage'.
I mentioned Regretsy.com mostly for the lulz, but that blog does highlight these problems quite neatly.
there sure is a lot of retarded this-could-never-happen-to-me-ism going on there, though.
edit: I found the pattern for that beard facewarmer on ravelry ages ago (actually, I think there's several). I'm pretty sure they're a joke option and not a serious thing
All I have to add to this is, wow really? Can anyone be that fucking dumb?
Obviously a website that sells dildos needs to be a little bit more uptight about security/privacy than a business/website that deals with a video game.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
I am pretty glad I never used them. If anything this is not going to bring business at all, it'll be business neutral. At worst, it's going to destroy their unique market place by alienating their customer base, or entice a competitor to opening shop and not being a giant asshattish-facebook wannabe by giving away private details about customers.
I mean I sure as hell wouldn't buy anything from them now, even though I'm not buying glass trinkets (read: dildos). Did they honestly think this would go over well? I'm fully expecting lawsuits to start flying in a matter of weeks once this gains internet momentum.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Etsy revised its prohibited items policy in the wake of mounting criticism and national media attention about offensive listings on the site. A seller going by the name of YouStupidBitch opened a shop on Etsy in October and began selling greeting cards with offensive and misogynist themes. The seller's shop is still online; the cards that made jokes about rape, AIDS, and children with Down's Syndrome appear to have been removed.
When users first complained about the listings on its discussion boards over 3 weeks ago, Etsy closed the threads and allowed the listings to remain. An Etsy engineer left positive feedback for "YouStupidBitch" in the midst of the controversy. According to one thread, Etsy responded to complaints about the seller's so called "rape card" with the following statement:
"It is important to us that we allow members of the community to express their own sensibilities, and to develop their shop identity to suit themselves and their market. What is offensive to some may be intended as a statement about culture by an artist."
Various bloggers picked up the story, and the television network CNN featured the controversial listings in this report. A website called WomensRights.Change.org began a petition asking for Etsy to remove the listings, which received over 16,000 online "signatures."
On Friday, Etsy announced it was revising its policy because of the "intense debate about what kinds of items should and shouldn't be allowed on Etsy." In the announcement, Etsy wrote that its policies prohibited disparaging or promoting hate against people based on race or religion, but had not covered gender, people with disabilities, or sexual orientation.
The policy has been revised to state that Etsy will no longer allow items or listings that promote, support or glorify hatred toward or otherwise demean people based upon race, ethnicity, religion, gender, gender identity, disability, or sexual orientation, including items or content that promote organizations with such views.
Etsy also revised its policies around violence and illegal activity and now prohibits items or listings that promote or support illegal activity or instruct others to engage in illegal activity and items or listings that promote, support or glorify acts of violence or harm towards self or others.
Adam Freed, Etsy's COO, wrote the announcement, saying, "We have always supported a broad range of perspectives at Etsy, even if we don't always personally agree with the messages of our individual members. We will continue to do so. But we also want to recognize that tolerance and respect have to be part of the norms of our community. We feel that the kinds of items we are now prohibiting violated that spirit."
I'm still hoping it gains internet momentum, I'm not sure if it will yet.
It will. If anything PA tends to help things like this, RealID, and other stupid shit gain critical mass much quicker. Now if only we had the blizzard forums on our side...
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
I'm still hoping it gains internet momentum, I'm not sure if it will yet.
It will. If anything PA tends to help things like this, RealID, and other stupid shit gain critical mass much quicker. Now if only we had the blizzard forums on our side...
I want to get the word out but I have no idea if there are even any options as far as alerting members of the media. I don't want to be sensationalist and I can't think of what I might do other than email bloggers and paper columnists saying "I think you should write about this!"
That said...maybe Computer World? This seems like something they would stand behind.
Posts
And here's the real name of the person who bought it:
http://www.etsy.com/people/warax/feedback?type=for_others
I legitimately hate the sort of people with the sheer thoughtless determination to treat the customer as an enemy. "Oh! We can totally extract more per month out of people with this! Should we ask them? Inform them? Think about them for more than a second?" "Naaah."
Are we only able to find names based on if someone favorited it or left feedback? Is there a general "person X purchased the following" section?
Throw in a little LinkedIn for professional weirdness.
Nothing like a bit of tabloidism to get people's attention.
.....I should have done this.
Emailed their office last night, asking them to investigate.
I don't think it's so much treating the customer as an enemy as just being incredibly, mind-bogglingly stupid.
Basically, everyone wants to be Facebook. Because they are fucking morons.
This is it, really.
Facebook.
Everyone wants to be Facebook. It's just absurd. No site is going to hybrid itself into a pseudo social networking site on top of whatever they already did and be successful.
They just need to stick to their niche and keep being successful in what they were doing instead of reaching for the unreachable.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
That's sort of what I mean though. They're not trying to figure out how to serve as the best possible version of their site. They're trying desperately to figure out how to trick people into coming to their cool new social network/rewards program/whatever-the-fuck. It's antagonistic in the complete lack of any concern over the actual needs and wants of the people they're supposed to be serving.
And yeah, it's fucking stupid.
Why would that be, I wonder?
There's also an massive thread from February about the email-search feature: http://www.etsy.com/teams/7718/site-help/discuss/6762009/page/1
The first page is a collection of the most asinine excuses administration could come up with, and by the 527th page buyers have starting wandering in, demanding to know why they are still coming up in searches after opting out.
That is a good point. Thoughtlessness isn't exactly malice, but it does deserve being realllly raked over the coals.
I mentioned Regretsy.com mostly for the lulz, but that blog does highlight these problems quite neatly.
That doesn't seem like fuckmuppetry on the part of Etsy's owners though. It just sounds like the kind of bullshit you'd expect on any site of this sort on the internet.
Just saw your blog post. Thank you!
Mine is here.
Thank you!!
And I'm not going to use my Fuck Yeah BC account to promote this, as much as I'd like to.
Oh hai. On page 120, there was a link posted pointing out that one of their sellers (of knitted products, some quilts) was also a buyer. Of sex toys. Thread closed!
Yeah, only admin's allowed to publish knitters' fetishes. Duh. </sarcasm>
regretsy is fabulous and sad.
Also, sad Etsy boyfriends: http://www.urlesque.com/2011/03/10/sad-etsy-boyfriends/
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
bahahahaha
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
http://www.etsy.com/teams/7714/ideas/discuss/6817441/page/1
http://unofficialetsyforums.com/index.cgi?board=venues&action=display&thread=3639&page=1
"Not hippies,
HipSTERS
soooo not the same thing."
<from the second link>
there sure is a lot of retarded this-could-never-happen-to-me-ism going on there, though.
edit: I found the pattern for that beard facewarmer on ravelry ages ago (actually, I think there's several). I'm pretty sure they're a joke option and not a serious thing
vs.
"Etsy's privacy practices are regularly verified and vetted by TRUSTe, an independent, non-profit organization which helps make sure Etsy is in compliance with privacy laws around the world."
from http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6762009
Epic fail TRUSTe. Epic.
Its terrifying when two Internet circles collide. Its like a venn diagram of everyone's privacy related nightmares.
And hiiiiiii Etsy people. You're all perverts, aren'tchya?
Obviously a website that sells dildos needs to be a little bit more uptight about security/privacy than a business/website that deals with a video game.
Though I think the "hippie" comment isn't necessarily beneficial :P
Also I just got a spate of reblogs on tumblr...the post is picking up steam.
http://www.eylerwerve.com/2011/etsy-com-publishes-real-names-and-purchase-history-of-buyers/
CC-by, repost or submit to larger platforms as you like.
I mean I sure as hell wouldn't buy anything from them now, even though I'm not buying glass trinkets (read: dildos). Did they honestly think this would go over well? I'm fully expecting lawsuits to start flying in a matter of weeks once this gains internet momentum.
http://www.auctionbytes.com/cab/cab/abn/y11/m01/i17/s04
It will. If anything PA tends to help things like this, RealID, and other stupid shit gain critical mass much quicker. Now if only we had the blizzard forums on our side...
I want to get the word out but I have no idea if there are even any options as far as alerting members of the media. I don't want to be sensationalist and I can't think of what I might do other than email bloggers and paper columnists saying "I think you should write about this!"
That said...maybe Computer World? This seems like something they would stand behind.