The devs are people that were involved in Okami and Devil May Cry? Huh, I'd have expected better. It's a really pretty game, but it just doesn't play well at all. I downloaded the demo on a lark after being disappointed by the lack of BG&E. The first thing I noticed was how pretty everything was. The second thing was that I didn't like the combat. The third is that boy, those holes in the ground sure do look exactly the same as the water you can stand on.
The 2D section was better, I think, but that may just because there was nothing to fight. I dunno. It's pretty, but I hope the final game plays better than that.
Played the demo, was surprised by how much I enjoyed it. I quite like the Evangelion-esque cracked-out take on Christian mythology (it also reminded me of Neo Ranga, or at least the trailer, since I've never seen the actual series).
Some of you are being pretty dismissive about what's probably the most visually unique game to come out on a mainstream system in what, the last decade? I guess you could point to Little Big Planet and the last Kirby game, but the whole arts-n-crafts thing had been done before, if not as well*. The flat cell-shaded look makes everything stand out cleanly, although there's a lot of aliasing and some slowdown considering the simplicity of the graphics.
I thought the combat was fairly fun and fluid once you get the hang of it. The auto-targeting is pretty generous, but you can't really switch directions in midair, the distance requirements for melee combos can be picky, and blocking doesn't seem to cancel and gets broken easily, unlike say Ninja Gaiden. It was fun replaying it to beat down that midboss in armor that I thought was a story-required loss at first. I only liked one of the two weapons in the demo, although that makes the disarm system kind of interesting in deciding when to use it on which enemies. My main fear is that the combat will become boring and repetitive after a while, although I'm still not sure how the blade corruption/super burst thing works (I'm guessing you have to activate it right when the weapon gets corrupted?)
The third is that boy, those holes in the ground sure do look exactly the same as the water you can stand on.
The price you pay for interesting use of negative space with a minimalist art style, my friend. It's pretty easy to get used to, and it's not like there's much penalty for falling (can I mention how much I like the pause/checkpoint load noise being Lucifer snapping his fingers, as he seems to have control over time, btw?)
*EDIT: Forgot about the upcoming Child of Eden, although that's still kind of a takeoff on Rez, and everything I've seen about the integration of that pop singer or whoever she was looks cringingly awkward and immersion-breaking.
The main thing about combat in this game is that you cannot interrupt enemies while they are performing attacks. You MUST dodge/block and wait for an opening. Once you wrap your head around that, battles will become much easier.
once i wrapped my head around that i realized that i did not like the combat
This game rewards you more for evasion and timing, they say as much in the previews.
and i didn't like it
unstoppable enemy strikes with huge amounts of health per enemy make for long, drawn out battles that make the protagonist seem underpowered. i find it tedious.
is there a dodge roll or something, like block+jump? i was resorting to just-blocking to parry enemy attacks
Evil Multifarious on
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
This game rewards you more for evasion and timing, they say as much in the previews.
and i didn't like it
unstoppable enemy strikes with huge amounts of health per enemy make for long, drawn out battles that make the protagonist seem underpowered. i find it tedious.
is there a dodge roll or something, like block+jump? i was resorting to just-blocking to parry enemy attacks
Depends on the weapon, the 'funnel' shooter has a dash move which is very nice. The sword, I usually double jump out of the way or block. If you block and hold attack + back, you can do a launch move to juggle the enemy for a good while and rack up damage.
This game rewards you more for evasion and timing, they say as much in the previews.
and i didn't like it
unstoppable enemy strikes with huge amounts of health per enemy make for long, drawn out battles that make the protagonist seem underpowered. i find it tedious.
is there a dodge roll or something, like block+jump? i was resorting to just-blocking to parry enemy attacks
Depends on the weapon, the 'funnel' shooter has a dash move which is very nice. The sword, I usually double jump out of the way or block. If you block and hold attack + back, you can do a launch move to juggle the enemy for a good while and rack up damage.
Awesome boxart, as expected.
Played the demo. This game is awesome, but they do a very poor job of explaining things, so I can understand people's complaints.
I know that the funnel is called Gale, but I never got the name of that scimitar. Anyway, both weapons so far seem to have an evasive maneuver with block+jump. Gale's is better, but it has a very weak guard too, so it's balanced defensively. With the blade, you can block a couple of hits, but evasion or Just Guard is preferable.
Combat is deeper than most people I've talked to seem to think - mashing attack isn't the only way to combo. Leaving pauses in your combo timing creates different attacks and can even change the properties of your charge attack too. For example, with Gale, attack, pause, hold attack lets you do a charged up artillery type attack, while attack, pause, attack, pause, etc. let's you shoot arcing shots that break enemy guard.
Charging an attack and releasing just as enemy attacks is a counter strike. Prevents damage.
Block+attack is a launcher for both weapons. Lift, then attack a bit. From there you can hold attack or use block+attack again for a downward slam type move for both.
Gale's charged attack has multiple phases, so try mashing attack after you use it.
That's all I've discovered so far.
EDIT: Went back and read more of the thread to find that everyone thinks the gameplay is mediocre, so this post probably will generate some backlash. Sorry if everyone already knew this stuff.
Kaza, it'd be nice if the demo told you even a fraction of that. It doesn't even hint that there ARE different ways to trigger weapon combos, let alone how to do it. Block also seems to be utterly useless, and somehow there's no 'dodge' button (and wtf is with that in a game where you can't interrupt your enemies?).
I also took ~2 dozen hits to kill enemies for me using the basic combo, and so I understandably found the combat incredibly annoying. It might be that there's more there than the demo lets on, but I'm not really willing to drop more than bargain bin dollars to find out.
Kaza, it'd be nice if the demo told you even a fraction of that. It doesn't even hint that there ARE different ways to trigger weapon combos, let alone how to do it. Block also seems to be utterly useless, and somehow there's no 'dodge' button (and wtf is with that in a game where you can't interrupt your enemies?).
I also took ~2 dozen hits to kill enemies for me using the basic combo, and so I understandably found the combat incredibly annoying. It might be that there's more there than the demo lets on, but I'm not really willing to drop more than bargain bin dollars to find out.
Yeah, sitting there and blocking is clearly not what the designers intended in this game. What the best defensive option is, I don't know and won't until I buy the game. As for dodge, block+jump together does that.
As for the enemies having a lot of health, personally I enjoy combat, so enemies that don't die before I get to have fun with them are a blessing, not a curse.
Plus you can't die in this game very easily...even if you get close you can just mash and come back with some armor fragments restored. It's like PoP2k8 in more ways than one, and I will love it because of this, and I think the same people that hated that game will dislike this one for some of the same reasons.
PS: YO UBI WHAT'S UP MAN CAN I GET A SEQUEL TO POP2K8 YET GOTTA KILL ARHIMAN AND REDEEM MYSELF IN ELIKA'S EYES YO
I enjoyed PoP2k8, but that was largely because I thought it was quite aware that it was mocking many of the people who were playing it. I don't get that from this game at all - the controls and combat system just seem obtuse for no real reason, although aesthetically it's very cool.
I enjoyed PoP2k8, but that was largely because I thought it was quite aware that it was mocking many of the people who were playing it. I don't get that from this game at all - the controls and combat system just seem obtuse for no real reason, although aesthetically it's very cool.
I enjoyed PoP2k8, but that was largely because I thought it was quite aware that it was mocking many of the people who were playing it. I don't get that from this game at all - the controls and combat system just seem obtuse for no real reason, although aesthetically it's very cool.
dude what
I think I have a loooooong post in the history somewhere about it, but basically it's mocking the typical badass ladies man hero fantasy escapism bullshit that defines videogames in general. On a narrative level, the prince is a loser. He's a completely uneccessary tagalong in someone else's story who never got the memo. He'd rather destroy everything the hero worked for than recognize that he was unecessary the entire time.
What makes it really brilliant is that the game mechanics reflect this. You don't really have to *do* anything to 'win' and be a hero - you'll get ressurected immediately if you die, the timing windows for the platforming features are almost comically loose, and you don't even have to take action for most of them in order to complete stunning and impossible feats of acrobatics. The primary complaint I hear from people who didn't like it is that they didn't feel like a badass prince because it was just too easy, which is hilarious and the basis of the statement you bolded - that was the point. You weren't a badass prince hero. You were an utterly replaceable, juvenille sidekick with delusions of grandeur.
I suppose I shouldn't have said they did it on purpose. I don't know that. It's more than possible they just did a hilariously shitty job of creating yet another hero fantasy escapism title. But it felt pretty self aware as I played it - some of the dialogue asides very much so, and if so it's probably the best piece of gaming satire I've ever played.
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zllehsHiding in a box, waiting to strike.Registered Userregular
edited June 2011
love the art direction... controls could use some work but story seems very engaging
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
As for the enemies having a lot of health, personally I enjoy combat, so enemies that don't die before I get to have fun with them are a blessing, not a curse.
I like it, but I'd prefer lower health with more enemies to be honest.
It feels like it might run into the problem that DMC does on DMD mode, where enemies just take too many hits for it to be fun anymore. I know a lot of people just consider DMD in DMC3 to be incredibly boring because nothing ever wants to die. So even though there's only two or three enemies in the room you're stuck in it for 10 minutes just killing enemies with more health than the last boss on normal mode.
DMC has a pretty commited fanbase though that likes the drawn out combat.
I forsee El Shaddai as a new cult favorite of the perfectionist action gamer. No hit runs, time attack, etc. The game is already set up for such rankings I believe.
It feels like it might run into the problem that DMC does on DMD mode, where enemies just take too many hits for it to be fun anymore. I know a lot of people just consider DMD in DMC3 to be incredibly boring because nothing ever wants to die. So even though there's only two or three enemies in the room you're stuck in it for 10 minutes just killing enemies with more health than the last boss on normal mode.
I liked DMD mode honestly. It's also like. Once you get really good and can combo things like crazy and you just kill shit while never touching the ground and stuff you just feel like a badass and it doesn't feel like it takes forever. Plus you know what to do to kill them quickly. I don't know.
mastrius on
"You're like a kitten! A kitten who doesn't speak Japanese." ~ Juliet Starling
So I finally got the demo. You guys who were complaining about combat know that there is a dodge, block, launcher, combos that vary based on delay input, and a counterattack function right?
Overall things died pretty reasonably once I realized I could just combo them a bit, launch them, and then counterattack their eventual attack.
Tcheldor on
League of Legends: Sorakanmyworld
FFXIV: Tchel Fay
Nintendo ID: Tortalius
Steam: Tortalius
Stream: twitch.tv/tortalius
So I finally got the demo. You guys who were complaining about combat know that there is a dodge, block, launcher, combos that vary based on delay input, and a counterattack function right?
Overall things died pretty reasonably once I realized I could just combo them a bit, launch them, and then counterattack their eventual attack.
Thank you!
Also I have a huge post about it like a page back I think? if you wanna discuss mechanics
Hm. So this releases sometime in August now. I could be wrong but I could have sworn it was supposed to be next week? Or maybe the 26th? I'm not positive. I just thought it was. Can't find anywhere saying it was pushed back so...maybe I'm crazy...
"You're like a kitten! A kitten who doesn't speak Japanese." ~ Juliet Starling
In later levels though, you're penalized somewhat for disarms. Certain weapons are most effective against certain bosses, and sometimes the only way to keep a weapon is to not steal from enemies.
Just poking my head in to say that the ridiculous ads all over everywhere are actually starting to annoy the shit out of me and have pretty well killed any interest I may have had in this game.
Just poking my head in to say that the ridiculous ads all over everywhere are actually starting to annoy the shit out of me and have pretty well killed any interest I may have had in this game.
Did ads kill your interest in Portal 2 as well? Because they were far more numerous and prevalent.
I didn't notice them as much. It isn't the banners that bother me. It's that several sites have top and side banners, that margin/background image thing that people are doing more often now (which annoys the shit out of me, as I click there to take the focus out of whatever flash thing I might have interacted with), inline ads in the articles, expand-o ads on top of the article that have to be closed, and those "skip this ad to view your article" ads. All for this game.
I didn't notice them as much. It isn't the banners that bother me. It's that several sites have top and side banners, that margin/background image thing that people are doing more often now (which annoys the shit out of me, as I click there to take the focus out of whatever flash thing I might have interacted with), inline ads in the articles, expand-o ads on top of the article that have to be closed, and those "skip this ad to view your article" ads. All for this game.
That's what kills me.
Ah, I haven't noticed any (NoScript must be blocking them) but that honestly does sound annoying
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Really pretty though.
Twitter
The 2D section was better, I think, but that may just because there was nothing to fight. I dunno. It's pretty, but I hope the final game plays better than that.
Some of you are being pretty dismissive about what's probably the most visually unique game to come out on a mainstream system in what, the last decade? I guess you could point to Little Big Planet and the last Kirby game, but the whole arts-n-crafts thing had been done before, if not as well*. The flat cell-shaded look makes everything stand out cleanly, although there's a lot of aliasing and some slowdown considering the simplicity of the graphics.
I thought the combat was fairly fun and fluid once you get the hang of it. The auto-targeting is pretty generous, but you can't really switch directions in midair, the distance requirements for melee combos can be picky, and blocking doesn't seem to cancel and gets broken easily, unlike say Ninja Gaiden. It was fun replaying it to beat down that midboss in armor that I thought was a story-required loss at first. I only liked one of the two weapons in the demo, although that makes the disarm system kind of interesting in deciding when to use it on which enemies. My main fear is that the combat will become boring and repetitive after a while, although I'm still not sure how the blade corruption/super burst thing works (I'm guessing you have to activate it right when the weapon gets corrupted?)
The price you pay for interesting use of negative space with a minimalist art style, my friend. It's pretty easy to get used to, and it's not like there's much penalty for falling (can I mention how much I like the pause/checkpoint load noise being Lucifer snapping his fingers, as he seems to have control over time, btw?)
*EDIT: Forgot about the upcoming Child of Eden, although that's still kind of a takeoff on Rez, and everything I've seen about the integration of that pop singer or whoever she was looks cringingly awkward and immersion-breaking.
once i wrapped my head around that i realized that i did not like the combat
This game rewards you more for evasion and timing, they say as much in the previews.
and i didn't like it
unstoppable enemy strikes with huge amounts of health per enemy make for long, drawn out battles that make the protagonist seem underpowered. i find it tedious.
is there a dodge roll or something, like block+jump? i was resorting to just-blocking to parry enemy attacks
Depends on the weapon, the 'funnel' shooter has a dash move which is very nice. The sword, I usually double jump out of the way or block. If you block and hold attack + back, you can do a launch move to juggle the enemy for a good while and rack up damage.
Awesome boxart, as expected.
I know that the funnel is called Gale, but I never got the name of that scimitar. Anyway, both weapons so far seem to have an evasive maneuver with block+jump. Gale's is better, but it has a very weak guard too, so it's balanced defensively. With the blade, you can block a couple of hits, but evasion or Just Guard is preferable.
Combat is deeper than most people I've talked to seem to think - mashing attack isn't the only way to combo. Leaving pauses in your combo timing creates different attacks and can even change the properties of your charge attack too. For example, with Gale, attack, pause, hold attack lets you do a charged up artillery type attack, while attack, pause, attack, pause, etc. let's you shoot arcing shots that break enemy guard.
Charging an attack and releasing just as enemy attacks is a counter strike. Prevents damage.
Block+attack is a launcher for both weapons. Lift, then attack a bit. From there you can hold attack or use block+attack again for a downward slam type move for both.
Gale's charged attack has multiple phases, so try mashing attack after you use it.
That's all I've discovered so far.
EDIT: Went back and read more of the thread to find that everyone thinks the gameplay is mediocre, so this post probably will generate some backlash. Sorry if everyone already knew this stuff.
I will be as well my friend!
I also took ~2 dozen hits to kill enemies for me using the basic combo, and so I understandably found the combat incredibly annoying. It might be that there's more there than the demo lets on, but I'm not really willing to drop more than bargain bin dollars to find out.
Yeah, sitting there and blocking is clearly not what the designers intended in this game. What the best defensive option is, I don't know and won't until I buy the game. As for dodge, block+jump together does that.
As for the enemies having a lot of health, personally I enjoy combat, so enemies that don't die before I get to have fun with them are a blessing, not a curse.
Plus you can't die in this game very easily...even if you get close you can just mash and come back with some armor fragments restored. It's like PoP2k8 in more ways than one, and I will love it because of this, and I think the same people that hated that game will dislike this one for some of the same reasons.
PS: YO UBI WHAT'S UP MAN CAN I GET A SEQUEL TO POP2K8 YET GOTTA KILL ARHIMAN AND REDEEM MYSELF IN ELIKA'S EYES YO
HURRY UP
dude what
I mean, you're working for God, a few ressurections thrown in is to be expected.
I think I have a loooooong post in the history somewhere about it, but basically it's mocking the typical badass ladies man hero fantasy escapism bullshit that defines videogames in general. On a narrative level, the prince is a loser. He's a completely uneccessary tagalong in someone else's story who never got the memo. He'd rather destroy everything the hero worked for than recognize that he was unecessary the entire time.
What makes it really brilliant is that the game mechanics reflect this. You don't really have to *do* anything to 'win' and be a hero - you'll get ressurected immediately if you die, the timing windows for the platforming features are almost comically loose, and you don't even have to take action for most of them in order to complete stunning and impossible feats of acrobatics. The primary complaint I hear from people who didn't like it is that they didn't feel like a badass prince because it was just too easy, which is hilarious and the basis of the statement you bolded - that was the point. You weren't a badass prince hero. You were an utterly replaceable, juvenille sidekick with delusions of grandeur.
I suppose I shouldn't have said they did it on purpose. I don't know that. It's more than possible they just did a hilariously shitty job of creating yet another hero fantasy escapism title. But it felt pretty self aware as I played it - some of the dialogue asides very much so, and if so it's probably the best piece of gaming satire I've ever played.
I like it, but I'd prefer lower health with more enemies to be honest.
I forsee El Shaddai as a new cult favorite of the perfectionist action gamer. No hit runs, time attack, etc. The game is already set up for such rankings I believe.
I liked DMD mode honestly. It's also like. Once you get really good and can combo things like crazy and you just kill shit while never touching the ground and stuff you just feel like a badass and it doesn't feel like it takes forever. Plus you know what to do to kill them quickly. I don't know.
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/story-and-el-shaddai/716833
Overall things died pretty reasonably once I realized I could just combo them a bit, launch them, and then counterattack their eventual attack.
FFXIV: Tchel Fay
Nintendo ID: Tortalius
Steam: Tortalius
Stream: twitch.tv/tortalius
The game developer guy at gametrailer said you won't get past the later stages on normal if you don't learn the combat system.
Thank you!
Also I have a huge post about it like a page back I think? if you wanna discuss mechanics
I think the game is supposed to be pretty tough
Did ads kill your interest in Portal 2 as well? Because they were far more numerous and prevalent.
That's what kills me.
Ah, I haven't noticed any (NoScript must be blocking them) but that honestly does sound annoying
Lens of Truth has a screen shot comparison. 360 looks better. More defined.
http://www.lensoftruth.com/head2head-el-shaddai-ascension-of-the-metatron-demo-screenshot-comparison/