It is okay to both enjoy the products of a sexist culture (Bayonetta ranks as one of my favorite games, The Fifth Element as one of my favorite movies, and a host of others way less cool than those) and criticize that culture and even elements of the products you enjoy. It is possible to say "this is a problem" without saying "this is the only, the most, the greatest problem anywhere ever". I can request more of what I think is good and less of what I think is bad without being out to destroy everyone and everything I don't think is empowering or whatever the fuck people are pretending to react against.
Hell, there isn't even anyone arguing the "other side" of this, there are just varying levels of defensiveness.
So long as you only compare them to the people he wants you to and nothing else absolutely.
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mrt144King of the NumbernamesRegistered Userregular
Why is it, only geek culture seems to defend rape fantasy games from Japan, and not strictly along the lines of the right of it to exist, but that there is intrinsic value in the game itself?
Why is it, only geek culture seems to defend rape fantasy games from Japan, and not strictly along the lines of the right of it to exist, but that there is intrinsic value in the game itself?
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
You know, I didn't realize that the rape of Lara Croft is dependent on the actions of the gamer... that there would be a way in the game for Lara Croft to get raped if you don't take the right action. That's pretty goddamned disturbing.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
You know, I didn't realize that the rape of Lara Croft is dependent on the actions of the gamer... that there would be a way in the game for Lara Croft to get raped if you don't take the right action. That's pretty goddamned disturbing.
You know, I didn't realize that the murder of Lara Croft is dependent on the actions of the gamer... that in the game there is also a way for Lara to be brutally killed if you don't take the right action? That's pretty goddamned disturbing!
A character being raped does not make a game sexist. The way that it is portrayed does.
You know, I didn't realize that the rape of Lara Croft is dependent on the actions of the gamer... that there would be a way in the game for Lara Croft to get raped if you don't take the right action. That's pretty goddamned disturbing.
You know, I didn't realize that the murder of Lara Croft is dependent on the actions of the gamer... that in the game there is also a way for Lara to be brutally killed if you don't take the right action? That's pretty goddamned disturbing!
A character being raped does not make a game sexist. The way that it is portrayed does.
The issue imo is the whole "She gonna get raped so you want to protect her" thing.
Why is it, only geek culture seems to defend rape fantasy games from Japan, and not strictly along the lines of the right of it to exist, but that there is intrinsic value in the game itself?
I can't speak for powergirl, the fifth element (haven't seen it) or the green lady at the end (I have no idea who that is). I'm sure Lollipop Chainsaw is disgraceful and terrible but one of the more notable things is that she has the severed head of a male attacker on her belt.
The green lady is an Orion Slave Girl from classic Star Trek. Y'know, that horribly sexist/racist show that had powerful female officers, nurses, and so forth and used people of different races in ways that didn't have to do with them being of different races. It's more cherry picking.
I... can't tell if you're lauding Star Trek here or pointing out it's flaws.
The original Star Trek was horribly sexist. The main female characters filled the roles of secretary and nurse. The final episode of the series involved a woman who wasn't permitted to be a captain in Star Fleet, because the Federation didn't allow female captains.
The Next Generation had an entire episode revolving around the rape pregnancy of Councilor Troy, and her feelings about being violatied are never dealt with, and the whole incident is completely forgotten afterwards. Additionally, the cast of TNG ends up being exactly as "diverse" gender-wise as the original series. Women can be in the medical field but not in command? There was Tasha for a couple of seasons, of course. But once she was gone she was replaced with a male. TNG did have ancillary female characters in power, but the main cast was a sausage fest.
So yeah, I wouldn't exactly laud the Star Trek as a bastion of female equality. Women didn't really begin to have full involvement in the universe until Deep Space Nine.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
You know, I didn't realize that the rape of Lara Croft is dependent on the actions of the gamer... that there would be a way in the game for Lara Croft to get raped if you don't take the right action. That's pretty goddamned disturbing.
I can't speak for powergirl, the fifth element (haven't seen it) or the green lady at the end (I have no idea who that is). I'm sure Lollipop Chainsaw is disgraceful and terrible but one of the more notable things is that she has the severed head of a male attacker on her belt.
The green lady is an Orion Slave Girl from classic Star Trek. Y'know, that horribly sexist/racist show that had powerful female officers, nurses, and so forth and used people of different races in ways that didn't have to do with them being of different races. It's more cherry picking.
I... can't tell if you're lauding Star Trek here or pointing out it's flaws.
I'm lauding it. For it's time it was a super progressive show. Note: that doesn't mean it's a bastion of unassailable perfection. But shit had to start somewhere.
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
You know, I didn't realize that the rape of Lara Croft is dependent on the actions of the gamer... that there would be a way in the game for Lara Croft to get raped if you don't take the right action. That's pretty goddamned disturbing.
It's not true, thankfully.
Oh, thank God.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
Why is it, only geek culture seems to defend rape fantasy games from Japan, and not strictly along the lines of the right of it to exist, but that there is intrinsic value in the game itself?
Speaking as someone who administrates a large "geek culture" forum that largely lambasts and despises the slightest mention of those kinds of games I disagree that "geek culture" as a whole has one, defined opinion on hentai games. Even if 5% of people on this forum liked hentai games it wouldn't mean anything about "geek culture", any more than if 5% of crochet enthusiasts defended intricate the crocheting of intricate rape tableaus it would say anything about "crochet culture".
I'm seeing a lot of "isn't it terrible that some people who are into video games said this stupid thing" and no, it isn't terrible. It's evidence that stupid people who think horrible, stupid things exist in the world and due to the internet are able to seem like they are more than a loud, obsessive minority largely despised by their "geek" peer group.
I can't speak for powergirl, the fifth element (haven't seen it) or the green lady at the end (I have no idea who that is). I'm sure Lollipop Chainsaw is disgraceful and terrible but one of the more notable things is that she has the severed head of a male attacker on her belt.
The green lady is an Orion Slave Girl from classic Star Trek. Y'know, that horribly sexist/racist show that had powerful female officers, nurses, and so forth and used people of different races in ways that didn't have to do with them being of different races. It's more cherry picking.
I... can't tell if you're lauding Star Trek here or pointing out it's flaws.
I'm lauding it. For it's time it was a super progressive show. Note: that doesn't mean it's a bastion of unassailable perfection. But shit had to start somewhere.
Yeah, I mean, Star Trek wasn't perfect, but they were fairly progressive on race/gender stuff for their time.
Of course, the differing writers meant the show was often all over the place. And producers were breathing down their necks at several points too.
Also, fun fact, the original second in command for Star Trek was also a woman. She was switched out after the pilot wasn't well liked.
I can't speak for powergirl, the fifth element (haven't seen it) or the green lady at the end (I have no idea who that is). I'm sure Lollipop Chainsaw is disgraceful and terrible but one of the more notable things is that she has the severed head of a male attacker on her belt.
The green lady is an Orion Slave Girl from classic Star Trek. Y'know, that horribly sexist/racist show that had powerful female officers, nurses, and so forth and used people of different races in ways that didn't have to do with them being of different races. It's more cherry picking.
I... can't tell if you're lauding Star Trek here or pointing out it's flaws.
I'm lauding it. For it's time it was a super progressive show. Note: that doesn't mean it's a bastion of unassailable perfection. But shit had to start somewhere.
Yeah, I mean, Star Trek wasn't perfect, but they were fairly progressive on race/gender stuff for their time.
Of course, the differing writers meant the show was often all over the place. And producers were breathing down their necks at several points too.
Also, fun fact, the original second in command for Star Trek was also a woman. She was switched out after the pilot wasn't well liked.
You know, I didn't realize that the rape of Lara Croft is dependent on the actions of the gamer... that there would be a way in the game for Lara Croft to get raped if you don't take the right action. That's pretty goddamned disturbing.
It's not true, thankfully.
Oh, thank God.
A developer clarified that there's nothing that really approaches rape in the game. Apparently a guy gets a bit handsy, and that's about it. I had a brief search for the article but couldn't fine it within 2 minutes and so gave up.
Why is it, only geek culture seems to defend rape fantasy games from Japan, and not strictly along the lines of the right of it to exist, but that there is intrinsic value in the game itself?
Speaking as someone who administrates a large "geek culture" forum that largely lambasts and despises the slightest mention of those kinds of games I disagree that "geek culture" as a whole has one, defined opinion on hentai games. Even if 5% of people on this forum liked hentai games it wouldn't mean anything about "geek culture", any more than if 5% of crochet enthusiasts defended intricate the crocheting of intricate rape tableaus it would say anything about "crochet culture".
I'm seeing a lot of "isn't it terrible that some people who are into video games said this stupid thing" and no, it isn't terrible. It's evidence that stupid people who think horrible, stupid things exist in the world and due to the internet are able to seem like they are more than a loud, obsessive minority largely despised by their "geek" peer group.
I would note that hentai is hilarious because Japan is fucking fakakta.
I can't speak for powergirl, the fifth element (haven't seen it) or the green lady at the end (I have no idea who that is). I'm sure Lollipop Chainsaw is disgraceful and terrible but one of the more notable things is that she has the severed head of a male attacker on her belt.
The green lady is an Orion Slave Girl from classic Star Trek. Y'know, that horribly sexist/racist show that had powerful female officers, nurses, and so forth and used people of different races in ways that didn't have to do with them being of different races. It's more cherry picking.
I... can't tell if you're lauding Star Trek here or pointing out it's flaws.
The original Star Trek was horribly sexist. The main female characters filled the roles of secretary and nurse. The final episode of the series involved a woman who wasn't permitted to be a captain in Star Fleet, because the Federation didn't allow female captains.
I believe it was clear to the viewer that her being unable to achieve command of a star ship was unfair, and a sexist policy. Acknowledging in the media that women face barriers that men don't is a good thing.
I love the argument that we're misogynistic because we don't respect useless pursuits enough. We don't lack respect for beauty product/jewelery makers because they're usually women, we don't respect them because they're useless and unskilled pursuits.
I love the argument that we're misogynistic because we don't respect useless pursuits enough. We don't lack respect for beauty product/jewelery makers because they're usually women, we don't respect them because they're useless and unskilled pursuits.
You've cut right to the heart of it there. The problem with that piece is definitely that the author offhandedly mentions enjoying things like making jewelry and wanting to be allowed to do so in the larger context of enjoying many "feminine" and "non-feminine" things without being told that those things are not for Real Cool Ladies. What a maroon! What a useless moron! We geeks only respect useful skill-based work, like heavy industrial welding or making steampunk hats.
Edit: And wait
you realize that both making beauty products and making jewelry would be classed as "skilled pursuits" right? Like, "making jewelry" describes about half the skilled pursuit of most ancient cultures.
I love the argument that we're misogynistic because we don't respect useless pursuits enough. We don't lack respect for beauty product/jewelery makers because they're usually women, we don't respect them because they're useless and unskilled pursuits.
Why are they useless?
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ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
Because they're just there to look good and entertain petty people, which sets them apart from the things that comprise geek culture.
I love the argument that we're misogynistic because we don't respect useless pursuits enough. We don't lack respect for beauty product/jewelery makers because they're usually women, we don't respect them because they're useless and unskilled pursuits.
You've cut right to the heart of it there. The problem with that piece is definitely that the author offhandedly mentions enjoying things like making jewelry and wanting to be allowed to do so in the larger context of enjoying many "feminine" and "non-feminine" things without being told that those things are not for Real Cool Ladies. What a maroon! What a useless moron! We geeks only respect useful skill-based work, like heavy industrial welding or making steampunk hats.
Edit: And wait
you realize that both making beauty products and making jewelry would be classed as "skilled pursuits" right? Like, "making jewelry" describes about half the skilled pursuit of most ancient cultures.
Or that making beauty products requires at the very least some knowledge of organic chemistry and biology, if you want to make something safe and salable. It's the same attitude I called spool out on a while back - the geek tendency to treat geek skillsets as the only worthwhile ones.
I love the argument that we're misogynistic because we don't respect useless pursuits enough. We don't lack respect for beauty product/jewelery makers because they're usually women, we don't respect them because they're useless and unskilled pursuits.
I love the argument that we're misogynistic because we don't respect useless pursuits enough. We don't lack respect for beauty product/jewelery makers because they're usually women, we don't respect them because they're useless and unskilled pursuits.
Why are they useless?
What, exactly, are they for and what do they do? Nothing but looking pretty. The real reason we're looking up to the characters with ray guns and light sabers is that they're saving lives and moving the plot. Why do you think we don't look up to greens keepers and caddies?
Our definition of femininity is based around standing there and looking pretty while performing a few hobbies to pass the time. Actually being useful while female has longstanding associations with classlessness and lack of femininity. Professional training was taboo, as were long work hours and education.
The problem with that part of the article isn't that things like making beauty products or jewelry are useless and only shooting ray guns are cool. It's that watching somebody blast aliens with a ray gun is fucking entertaining. Watching someone stand around in a lab coat creating mixtures and then patch testing them on people is boring. So it's a terribly clueless reason to pick on the images chosen to represent positive women.
I love the argument that we're misogynistic because we don't respect useless pursuits enough. We don't lack respect for beauty product/jewelery makers because they're usually women, we don't respect them because they're useless and unskilled pursuits.
You've cut right to the heart of it there. The problem with that piece is definitely that the author offhandedly mentions enjoying things like making jewelry and wanting to be allowed to do so in the larger context of enjoying many "feminine" and "non-feminine" things without being told that those things are not for Real Cool Ladies. What a maroon! What a useless moron! We geeks only respect useful skill-based work, like heavy industrial welding or making steampunk hats.
Edit: And wait
you realize that both making beauty products and making jewelry would be classed as "skilled pursuits" right? Like, "making jewelry" describes about half the skilled pursuit of most ancient cultures.
Or that making beauty products requires at the very least some knowledge of organic chemistry and biology, if you want to make something safe and salable. It's the same attitude I called spool out on a while back - the geek tendency to treat geek skillsets as the only worthwhile ones.
Oh man my wife works for Lush and her in depth knowledge of the ingredients and their functions is fucking staggering. And I definitely wouldn't call being able to make different soaps for different kinds of skin out of naturally occurring, renewable materials useless either.
The problem with that part of the article isn't that things like making beauty products or jewelry are useless and only shooting ray guns are cool. It's that watching somebody blast aliens with a ray gun is fucking entertaining. Watching someone stand around in a lab coat creating mixtures and then patch testing them on people is boring.
This is entirely dependent on how it's presented. One of these is certainly easier to make interesting, but unless the only media you consume contains constant fighting it's horribly untrue. No one here is going to complain Good Eats is boring.
I love the argument that we're misogynistic because we don't respect useless pursuits enough. We don't lack respect for beauty product/jewelery makers because they're usually women, we don't respect them because they're useless and unskilled pursuits.
Why are they useless?
What, exactly, are they for and what do they do? Nothing but looking pretty. The real reason we're looking up to the characters with ray guns and light sabers is that they're saving lives and moving the plot. Why do you think we don't look up to greens keepers and caddies?
Our definition of femininity is based around standing there and looking pretty while performing a few hobbies to pass the time. Actually being useful while female has longstanding associations with classlessness and lack of femininity. Professional training was taboo, as were long work hours and education.
Oh, let's bring up the one massive issue with the image then.
With one exception, the pop culture side is filled with real people.
Without exception, the geek culture side consists solely of fictional characters.
The problem with that part of the article isn't that things like making beauty products or jewelry are useless and only shooting ray guns are cool. It's that watching somebody blast aliens with a ray gun is fucking entertaining. Watching someone stand around in a lab coat creating mixtures and then patch testing them on people is boring.
One of these is certainly easier to make interesting, but unless the only media you consume contains constant fighting it's horribly untrue. No one here is going to complain Good Eats is boring.
I didn't realize Good Eats was a popular Geek-culture-oriented show starring fictional female characters.
The problem with that part of the article isn't that things like making beauty products or jewelry are useless and only shooting ray guns are cool. It's that watching somebody blast aliens with a ray gun is fucking entertaining. Watching someone stand around in a lab coat creating mixtures and then patch testing them on people is boring.
One of these is certainly easier to make interesting, but unless the only media you consume contains constant fighting it's horribly untrue. No one here is going to complain Good Eats is boring.
I didn't realize Good Eats was a popular Geek-culture-oriented show starring fictional female characters.
That's not the point. You said those activities are boring and no one would want to watch them.
Many people would have argued the same about cooking shows until Alton Brown showed up. Hell, people who have no interest in cars love Top Gear too. Because it's presented in an interesting fashion. There's nothing about cosmetics or jewelry that prevents them from receiving similar treatment. I actually find my wife's training videos mildly entertaining because they actually try to be.
I haven't seen RoJ in a while, but wasn't Princess Leia's outfit at that point directly related to her having attempted an (admittedly unsuccessful) rescue attempt for a helpless, blinded male character?
Admittedly it's a male character who eventually rescues both of them, but I recall that having less to do with his hyper-competent maleness and more to do with him being fucking telekinetic.
That's the outfit she's wearing when she turns on her captor (who is many times her size and strength) and kills him with the chains he used to bind her, isn't it?
Cherry-picking indeed.
True, but I've always found the fixation on the slave girl outfit by Star Wars fans and sci-fi/fantasy fans in general more than a little creepy. For decades, they've been fetishizing and fantazing over the image of a literal sex slave, and then excusing it by saying "Oh! But she kills the evil, fat rape monster in the end, so it's empowering!" Really? Really?
The problem with that part of the article isn't that things like making beauty products or jewelry are useless and only shooting ray guns are cool. It's that watching somebody blast aliens with a ray gun is fucking entertaining. Watching someone stand around in a lab coat creating mixtures and then patch testing them on people is boring.
One of these is certainly easier to make interesting, but unless the only media you consume contains constant fighting it's horribly untrue. No one here is going to complain Good Eats is boring.
I didn't realize Good Eats was a popular Geek-culture-oriented show starring fictional female characters.
That's not the point. You said those activities are boring and no one would want to watch them.
Many people would have argued the same about cooking shows until Alton Brown showed up. Hell, people who have no interest in cars love Top Gear too. Because it's presented in an interesting fashion. There's nothing about cosmetics or jewelry that prevents them from receiving similar treatment. I actually find my wife's training videos mildly entertaining because they actually try to be.
That's EXACTLY the point. The conversation is revolving around fictional women in fictional shows. Period. When your counter examples are reality/documentary shows you're counterpoint isn't even in the same state, let alone ballpark.
I love the argument that we're misogynistic because we don't respect useless pursuits enough. We don't lack respect for beauty product/jewelery makers because they're usually women, we don't respect them because they're useless and unskilled pursuits.
Why are they useless?
What, exactly, are they for and what do they do? Nothing but looking pretty. The real reason we're looking up to the characters with ray guns and light sabers is that they're saving lives and moving the plot. Why do you think we don't look up to greens keepers and caddies?
Our definition of femininity is based around standing there and looking pretty while performing a few hobbies to pass the time. Actually being useful while female has longstanding associations with classlessness and lack of femininity. Professional training was taboo, as were long work hours and education.
Oh, let's bring up the one massive issue with the image then.
With one exception, the pop culture side is filled with real people.
Without exception, the geek culture side consists solely of fictional characters.
Real people who are involved in creating a media persona of themselves for consumption as part of pop culture.
Lady Gaga is not Lady Gaga in real life. Lady Gaga is a personification she has created to help her sell albums. The same is true of all the 'real' celebrities on that list. Fictional characters are perfectly capable role models. The comparison is between how pop-culture presents women and how geek culture presents women. Would you rather your daughter watched Star Trek, or Real Housewives? Babylon 5 or Keeping up with the Kardashians? Battlestar Galactica or The Jersey Shore?
The fact that the REAL people are worse than the fictional characters is not a point in their favor.
That's EXACTLY the point. The conversation is revolving around fictional women in fictional shows. Period. When your counter examples are reality/documentary shows you're counterpoint isn't even in the same state, let alone ballpark.
I'm sorry something has to be fictional now to be entertaining? Fine: Advertising is boring to most people. Mad Men is not. Because presentation. It does not take blasters make something interesting. It takes tension.
The problem with that part of the article isn't that things like making beauty products or jewelry are useless and only shooting ray guns are cool. It's that watching somebody blast aliens with a ray gun is fucking entertaining. Watching someone stand around in a lab coat creating mixtures and then patch testing them on people is boring.
One of these is certainly easier to make interesting, but unless the only media you consume contains constant fighting it's horribly untrue. No one here is going to complain Good Eats is boring.
I didn't realize Good Eats was a popular Geek-culture-oriented show starring fictional female characters.
That's not the point. You said those activities are boring and no one would want to watch them.
Many people would have argued the same about cooking shows until Alton Brown showed up. Hell, people who have no interest in cars love Top Gear too. Because it's presented in an interesting fashion. There's nothing about cosmetics or jewelry that prevents them from receiving similar treatment. I actually find my wife's training videos mildly entertaining because they actually try to be.
That's EXACTLY the point. The conversation is revolving around fictional women in fictional shows. Period. When your counter examples are reality/documentary shows you're counterpoint isn't even in the same state, let alone ballpark.
No, it's not. Not when 4/5ths of the pop culture examples are real people.
Posts
Hell, there isn't even anyone arguing the "other side" of this, there are just varying levels of defensiveness.
So long as you only compare them to the people he wants you to and nothing else absolutely.
You haven't heard - they want American rape fantasy games now.
You know, I didn't realize that the murder of Lara Croft is dependent on the actions of the gamer... that in the game there is also a way for Lara to be brutally killed if you don't take the right action? That's pretty goddamned disturbing!
A character being raped does not make a game sexist. The way that it is portrayed does.
The issue imo is the whole "She gonna get raped so you want to protect her" thing.
Let's not forget Israel's long history of rape fantasies.
I... can't tell if you're lauding Star Trek here or pointing out it's flaws.
The original Star Trek was horribly sexist. The main female characters filled the roles of secretary and nurse. The final episode of the series involved a woman who wasn't permitted to be a captain in Star Fleet, because the Federation didn't allow female captains.
The Next Generation had an entire episode revolving around the rape pregnancy of Councilor Troy, and her feelings about being violatied are never dealt with, and the whole incident is completely forgotten afterwards. Additionally, the cast of TNG ends up being exactly as "diverse" gender-wise as the original series. Women can be in the medical field but not in command? There was Tasha for a couple of seasons, of course. But once she was gone she was replaced with a male. TNG did have ancillary female characters in power, but the main cast was a sausage fest.
So yeah, I wouldn't exactly laud the Star Trek as a bastion of female equality. Women didn't really begin to have full involvement in the universe until Deep Space Nine.
It's not true, thankfully.
I'm lauding it. For it's time it was a super progressive show. Note: that doesn't mean it's a bastion of unassailable perfection. But shit had to start somewhere.
Oh, thank God.
Speaking as someone who administrates a large "geek culture" forum that largely lambasts and despises the slightest mention of those kinds of games I disagree that "geek culture" as a whole has one, defined opinion on hentai games. Even if 5% of people on this forum liked hentai games it wouldn't mean anything about "geek culture", any more than if 5% of crochet enthusiasts defended intricate the crocheting of intricate rape tableaus it would say anything about "crochet culture".
I'm seeing a lot of "isn't it terrible that some people who are into video games said this stupid thing" and no, it isn't terrible. It's evidence that stupid people who think horrible, stupid things exist in the world and due to the internet are able to seem like they are more than a loud, obsessive minority largely despised by their "geek" peer group.
Yeah, I mean, Star Trek wasn't perfect, but they were fairly progressive on race/gender stuff for their time.
Of course, the differing writers meant the show was often all over the place. And producers were breathing down their necks at several points too.
Also, fun fact, the original second in command for Star Trek was also a woman. She was switched out after the pilot wasn't well liked.
And kept on as Nurse Chapel.
A developer clarified that there's nothing that really approaches rape in the game. Apparently a guy gets a bit handsy, and that's about it. I had a brief search for the article but couldn't fine it within 2 minutes and so gave up.
I would note that hentai is hilarious because Japan is fucking fakakta.
I believe it was clear to the viewer that her being unable to achieve command of a star ship was unfair, and a sexist policy. Acknowledging in the media that women face barriers that men don't is a good thing.
Crystal Dynamics caved to our demands! We won!
I can't tell if you're being serious or not.
I love the argument that we're misogynistic because we don't respect useless pursuits enough. We don't lack respect for beauty product/jewelery makers because they're usually women, we don't respect them because they're useless and unskilled pursuits.
You've cut right to the heart of it there. The problem with that piece is definitely that the author offhandedly mentions enjoying things like making jewelry and wanting to be allowed to do so in the larger context of enjoying many "feminine" and "non-feminine" things without being told that those things are not for Real Cool Ladies. What a maroon! What a useless moron! We geeks only respect useful skill-based work, like heavy industrial welding or making steampunk hats.
Edit: And wait
you realize that both making beauty products and making jewelry would be classed as "skilled pursuits" right? Like, "making jewelry" describes about half the skilled pursuit of most ancient cultures.
Why are they useless?
Or that making beauty products requires at the very least some knowledge of organic chemistry and biology, if you want to make something safe and salable. It's the same attitude I called spool out on a while back - the geek tendency to treat geek skillsets as the only worthwhile ones.
Wow son.
Way to prove a point there.
What, exactly, are they for and what do they do? Nothing but looking pretty. The real reason we're looking up to the characters with ray guns and light sabers is that they're saving lives and moving the plot. Why do you think we don't look up to greens keepers and caddies?
Our definition of femininity is based around standing there and looking pretty while performing a few hobbies to pass the time. Actually being useful while female has longstanding associations with classlessness and lack of femininity. Professional training was taboo, as were long work hours and education.
Oh man my wife works for Lush and her in depth knowledge of the ingredients and their functions is fucking staggering. And I definitely wouldn't call being able to make different soaps for different kinds of skin out of naturally occurring, renewable materials useless either.
This is entirely dependent on how it's presented. One of these is certainly easier to make interesting, but unless the only media you consume contains constant fighting it's horribly untrue. No one here is going to complain Good Eats is boring.
Oh, let's bring up the one massive issue with the image then.
With one exception, the pop culture side is filled with real people.
Without exception, the geek culture side consists solely of fictional characters.
Example, please.
I didn't realize Good Eats was a popular Geek-culture-oriented show starring fictional female characters.
That's not the point. You said those activities are boring and no one would want to watch them.
Many people would have argued the same about cooking shows until Alton Brown showed up. Hell, people who have no interest in cars love Top Gear too. Because it's presented in an interesting fashion. There's nothing about cosmetics or jewelry that prevents them from receiving similar treatment. I actually find my wife's training videos mildly entertaining because they actually try to be.
True, but I've always found the fixation on the slave girl outfit by Star Wars fans and sci-fi/fantasy fans in general more than a little creepy. For decades, they've been fetishizing and fantazing over the image of a literal sex slave, and then excusing it by saying "Oh! But she kills the evil, fat rape monster in the end, so it's empowering!" Really? Really?
That's EXACTLY the point. The conversation is revolving around fictional women in fictional shows. Period. When your counter examples are reality/documentary shows you're counterpoint isn't even in the same state, let alone ballpark.
Real people who are involved in creating a media persona of themselves for consumption as part of pop culture.
Lady Gaga is not Lady Gaga in real life. Lady Gaga is a personification she has created to help her sell albums. The same is true of all the 'real' celebrities on that list. Fictional characters are perfectly capable role models. The comparison is between how pop-culture presents women and how geek culture presents women. Would you rather your daughter watched Star Trek, or Real Housewives? Babylon 5 or Keeping up with the Kardashians? Battlestar Galactica or The Jersey Shore?
The fact that the REAL people are worse than the fictional characters is not a point in their favor.
I'm sorry something has to be fictional now to be entertaining? Fine: Advertising is boring to most people. Mad Men is not. Because presentation. It does not take blasters make something interesting. It takes tension.
No, it's not. Not when 4/5ths of the pop culture examples are real people.