The Bad Penny Of American Discourse - [Reverse Racism]

AngelHedgie · August 2012

From the "Ways The World Tries To Get Me To Drink" file, a study from Tufts shows that whites view themselves more than blacks as the target of racism.

Both whites and blacks agree that anti-black racism has decreased over the last 60 years, according to the study. However, whites believe that anti-white racism has increased and is now a bigger problem than anti-black racism.

"It's a pretty surprising finding when you think of the wide range of disparities that still exist in society, most of which show black Americans with worse outcomes than whites in areas such as income, home ownership, health and employment," said Tufts Associate Professor of Psychology Samuel Sommers, Ph.D., co-author of "Whites See Racism as a Zero-sum Game that They Are Now Losing," which appears in the May 2011 issue of the journal Perspectives on Psychological Science.

I think that the key here is to understand the zero-sum mentality. To many in the socially dominant group, equality means the surrender of the benefits of that position, so there is a sense of a real loss to them. Furthermore, they see superficial equality measures as good enough, and as a result view measures to address structural inequality as being discriminatory against them.

It just makes me sad that people think that equality has to come at their expense.

redx · August 2012

Sommers and co-author Michael I. Norton of Harvard asked a nation-wide sample of 208 blacks and 209 whites to indicate the extent to which they felt blacks and whites were the targets of discrimination in each decade from the 1950s to the 2000s. A scale of 1 to 10 was used, with 1 being "not at all" and 10 being "very much."

White and black estimates of bias in the 1950s were similar. Both groups acknowledged little racism against whites at that time but substantial racism against blacks. Respondents also generally agreed that racism against blacks has decreased over time, although whites believed it has declined faster than blacks do.

However, whites believed that racism against whites has increased significantly as racism against blacks has decreased. On average, whites rated anti-white bias as more prevalent in the 2000s than anti-black bias by more than a full point on the 10-point scale. Moreover, some 11 percent of whites gave anti-white bias the maximum rating of 10 compared to only 2 percent of whites who rated anti-black bias a 10. Blacks, however, reported only a modest increase in their perceptions of "reverse racism.

like, I really wish I could see numbers that described something other than the outliers. I mean, there is no way I personally would rank anti-black racism a 10 today, when I had been asked to use the same scale to define racism in the 1950s. These numbers are kinda meaningless... well... mostly... at least 1 in 10 white americans is a complete goose with a victim complex.

I don't doubt the actual results of the study would be disappointing as hell to read or think that the study has been totally misconstrued by this report. I just which I could find the thing and see graphs and confidence bars and stuff. Like, so I could have some idea about just how awful the implication of the results are.

I kinda don't think reverse racism is much of thing that actually exists.

Mortious · August 2012

redx wrote: »

I kinda don't think reverse racism is much of thing that actually exists.

That term makes no sense to me. I'd say reverse racism is a good thing based on my understanding of "reverse" and "racism".

It just sounds like a word racists made up to "take back the word", and twist it to make their point seem more valid.

I mean imagine an exchange between a white male and a black male, with nothing other than historical context.
BM: "You're being a racist!"
WM: "No, you're the racist here!"

I'd say based on my experience that most people who side with the BM here, as racist is a word that's associated mainly to WMs.

You get a very similar vibe in South Africa as well. I don't have any studies to back that up, just all anecdotes.
And after all these years of white people complaining about affirmative action, "reverse racism" and the ANC "redistributing the wealth" along racial line, 99% of the people living in rural shanty towns are still black, and 90% of the people living in Umhlanga are still white.

Edit: Spoiler tags are hard
Edit2: Also English is hard, since I meant Quote tags

Vanguard · August 2012

I don't know what the title of this thread means.

Reverse racism is a racist term in of itself because it flips the power dynamics from how racism "should be."

That is all.

emnmnme · August 2012

Can't we just stop being racist all around?

Mortious · August 2012

Oh, I've also seen a flyer with the DA logo, that had the words "Reverse Apartheid" on it.

Edit: DA = Democratic Alliance, the other major political group

Kalkino · August 2012

Surely the DA wouldn't be so stupid as to throw that word into political advertising

gavindel · August 2012

Every time i get turned down for a job - that's reverse racism.
Every time i don't get a scholarship - that's reverse racism.
Every time i have to pay more taxes than a guy who has zero income - that's reverse racism.

Can't you SEE how repressed I am?! *leans back in his fancy chair and types on his $2000 computer*

--

I do generally feel that the term "reverse racism" tends to be a dog whistle used to account for a wide range in societal changes - not all even related to race - that result in people who happen to be white feeling like they're having a harder time of it than in the halcyon days of the 1950's. Its a coupling of the general downward trend in wages and increase in economic instability with a feeling like "well, its getting so much worse for me, and all I ever hear about is the tough times for these stupid minorities! Why doesn't anyone care about how hard my life is?!"

In other words, it bespeaks a lack of scale. "I had to pay an extra thousand dollars in taxes this year, and this guy over here got a thousand dollar credit just cause he's half whatever?!" Nevermind that the economic data is very clear on who has the upper hand. One guy is "working hard for his living", and the other one is "getting a handout". Marginal utility just makes the guy's eyes glaze over.

Probably the only area of frustration I can speak to in my own life has been college scholarships. Being competitive, scholarships really do feel like a zero sum game. Its very frustrating to pull a stack of 30 scholarships from the Financial Aid office tray, flip through them, and find two which a white male with high GPA can apply for. Note that it doesn't make it "reverse racism"...but it does make it very easy for me or other white students to say "Damn, why can't we get a piece of that pie?!"

PS: On the college front, I've known several minority people who used the college aid system to ride out the entire recession. A deaf girl who has been in school for 10 years straight with zero loans just now finishing up her bachelor's degree. A Native American who spent semester after semester undeclared, raking in full tuition plus a stipend that paid more than my full time job. People who take advantage of any system of benefits absolutely exist.

...and for the reverse racism argument, that's where it stops. "See? We're right! Everyone should bootstrap! Bootstrap!"

Of course, you know I would have been all over getting a PhD in Basket Weaving if someone paid me to do it for 10 years, and i bet the reverse racism guy would have too. Free money? of course! So sometimes we veer into a kind of sanctimony, wherein the speaker pretends to higher moral ground because he did not have a good opportunity to game the system.

Mortious · August 2012

Kalkino wrote: »

Surely the DA wouldn't be so stupid as to throw that word into political advertising

It was a few years ago, and their entire stance seemed to be Not-ANC. But I don't know if it was actually released by them or something like your SuperPACs' doing.

But yeah, they probably would. The parties campaign along racial lines quite heavily, even now.
Predominantly black areas have the "black" political parties, where the white areas have the "white" parties.
The DA actually did do a "the ANC are trying to establish apartheid area policies" thing once, but you know against whites not blacks. Scary, vote DA!

I don't like using the term "african" btw, so I'll keep on using black and white to denote between those races if that's okay.

krush · August 2012

gavindel wrote: »

Every time i get turned down for a job - that's reverse racism.
Every time i don't get a scholarship - that's reverse racism.
Every time i have to pay more taxes than a guy who has zero income - that's reverse racism.

Can't you SEE how repressed I am?! *leans back in his fancy chair and types on his $2000 computer*

--

I do generally feel that the term "reverse racism" tends to be a dog whistle used to account for a wide range in societal changes - not all even related to race - that result in people who happen to be white feeling like they're having a harder time of it than in the halcyon days of the 1950's. Its a coupling of the general downward trend in wages and increase in economic instability with a feeling like "well, its getting so much worse for me, and all I ever hear about is the tough times for these stupid minorities! Why doesn't anyone care about how hard my life is?!"

In other words, it bespeaks a lack of scale. "I had to pay an extra thousand dollars in taxes this year, and this guy over here got a thousand dollar credit just cause he's half whatever?!" Nevermind that the economic data is very clear on who has the upper hand. One guy is "working hard for his living", and the other one is "getting a handout". Marginal utility just makes the guy's eyes glaze over.

Probably the only area of frustration I can speak to in my own life has been college scholarships. Being competitive, scholarships really do feel like a zero sum game. Its very frustrating to pull a stack of 30 scholarships from the Financial Aid office tray, flip through them, and find two which a white male with high GPA can apply for. Note that it doesn't make it "reverse racism"...but it does make it very easy for me or other white students to say "Damn, why can't we get a piece of that pie?!"

PS: On the college front, I've known several people with impairments who used the college aid system to ride out the entire recession. A deaf girl who has been in school for 10 years straight with zero loans just now finishing up her bachelor's degree. A Native American who spent semester after semester undeclared, raking in full tuition plus a stipend that paid more than my full time job. People who take advantage of any system of benefits absolutely exist.

...and for the reverse racism argument, that's where it stops. "See? We're right! Everyone should bootstrap! Bootstrap!"

Of course, you know I would have been all over getting a PhD in Basket Weaving if someone paid me to do it for 10 years, and i bet the reverse racism guy would have too. Free money? of course! So sometimes we veer into a kind of sanctimony, wherein the speaker pretends to higher moral ground because he did not have a good opportunity to game the system.

I had started to type some additional stuff to tack on to this, but the highlighted part is pretty much all there is to it. It's reverse-racism because he can't do it too.

spacekungfuman · August 2012

AngelHedgie wrote:

From the "Ways The World Tries To Get Me To Drink" file, a study from Tufts shows that whites view themselves more than blacks as the target of racism.

Both whites and blacks agree that anti-black racism has decreased over the last 60 years, according to the study. However, whites believe that anti-white racism has increased and is now a bigger problem than anti-black racism.

"It's a pretty surprising finding when you think of the wide range of disparities that still exist in society, most of which show black Americans with worse outcomes than whites in areas such as income, home ownership, health and employment," said Tufts Associate Professor of Psychology Samuel Sommers, Ph.D., co-author of "Whites See Racism as a Zero-sum Game that They Are Now Losing," which appears in the May 2011 issue of the journal Perspectives on Psychological Science.

I think that the key here is to understand the zero-sum mentality. To many in the socially dominant group, equality means the surrender of the benefits of that position, so there is a sense of a real loss to them. Furthermore, they see superficial equality measures as good enough, and as a result view measures to address structural inequality as being discriminatory against them.

It just makes me sad that people think that equality has to come at their expense.

I think the idea of whites being the target of more racism than blacks is ridiculous. That said, equality is zero sum in many ways. If you have a systemic advantage with respect to the allocation of limited resources like jobs, salary, or a spot at a college, then putting other people on an even playing field does mean you are taking away the advantages group's resource advantage. The advantage is not fair, and if we care about having a just society than we should want this to change, but I don't see the value in claiming that greater equality doesn't mean less resources for the privileged in many cases.

Hacksaw · August 2012

Whites the target of racism? More like whites not always getting everything they want all the time forever.

Mortious · August 2012

Hacksaw wrote: »

Whites the target of racism? More like whites not always getting everything they want all the time forever.

Of course I'd like to add that whites can be the target of racism, and sometimes are. And when it happens it is a bad thing that should not happen.

But some overall arching society changing "reverse racism" is a myth. It's just society calling out the left over racism out on it's bullshit.

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