If 25 mans are dwindling without attaching the highest item levels to them, it's for a reason, and they should let them die and come up with something better
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HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
I know there is a happy medium that must exist out there but you say "archaic" I say "required". I have played the MMOs that marginalize gear to a fault (GW2/SWTOR) and by doing so it killed PVE for me. In one case (SWTOR) it made PVP gear a progression because they were so afraid of the "archaic" gear model that it made PVE gear secondary to the PVP gear. In GW2 you also have to PVP in order to get any reward out of the system. They killed PVE in that game so hard. There has to be a happy medium out there somewhere but until someone finds it (Tera is close but no one I know plays it) I will stick with Blizz who for all its faults knows how to make a PVE game better than anyone yet.
I guess I just don't see where the issue lies, though. I mean, we already have gear differentiation between difficulties, three flavors now even. So why add an additional 'attaboy' for people just because they choose to raid in a larger group? Who cares? Even the devs have said that 25s have things a bit easier as they can afford to lose a few players in an encounter before calling a wipe, whereas 10s can't, thus the reason they went with the 25s format over 10s for LFR. So by that logic, shouldn't 10s receive better quality gear? It's just silly.
If someone puts the time in to learn and overcome heroic-difficulty raids, then I absolutely think that they should be rewarded more - there is a clear-cut difference between the challenge in a normal mode encounter versus that of a heroic one. But the difficulty of 10s/25s have varied wildly from encounter to encounter pretty much since their inception. It's just harder to pin down "yep, these folks are putting in more effort" in that equation, and as has been said, rewarding those 25s creates further guild drama.
For me, in the end I honestly don't care - I'd be surprised if my guild ends up raiding at all in the next several months. I think only a handful of us have even done LFR yet. So if I had to extrapolate and make some assumptions, I don't know how many guilds this is really going to affect, at least in the short term. I just think it's an unfortunate precedent to set.
There has been fights that have been harder on 10m ever since they were implemented as a mirror. This raid tier Will like you said will be harder. Elegon looks like it would be harder for 10m as well.
It isn't even difficulty of the fights where they've cited that the incentive for 25 mans are warranted, it's the logistics and coordination involved in assembling the group. "it's easier to put a 10 man group together than it is 25, so they should get better rewards" is the logic they used for both the rewards in Wrath, and the number of drops in Cataclysm. Why they chose the most vague and subjective metric to measure a change in the tangible rewards for progression, I have no idea.
LFR should have some sort of passive mana regen buff or something, because healer regen does not seem to be well balanced for the typical LFR clusterfuck.
Ugh, I'd hate to see a conversion back to split lockouts with ilevel differences. My guild switched to a 10m guild halfway through Cata because the core group decided we were tired of the revolving door of new people that used us as a stepping stone to better guilds than us (which there are many, we aren't particularly good but we have fun ). Would hate to have to start all out recruiting again just because of silly notions about 25m v 10m raids.
Did Blizzard ever explain the Archaeology changes? I mean, I'm not complaining about it suddenly being easy to level, because I fucking hated it before...but I didn't see a single thing about it anywhere other than a little footnote on MMO without any blue explanation.
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
Did Blizzard ever explain the Archaeology changes? I mean, I'm not complaining about it suddenly being easy to level, because I fucking hated it before...but I didn't see a single thing about it anywhere other than a little footnote on MMO without any blue explanation.
It was in the patch notes wasn't it? (or hotfix notes, I forget where they added it)
Edit: Hotfix notes, first line:
* Digging up a find while practicing Archaeology will now continue to grant skill points past 50.
Man, shit. Our raid tonight decided to give up on Heroic Stoneguard tonight as A) It was Jasper, Amethyst, and Cobalt, We've already gotten a kill on Heroic Stoneguard and wanted more time on Feng instead. Which honestly I'm fine with. Having to relearn an entire fight each week is nonsense. Atleast with say, Halfus, the weekly rotation didn't have a huge impact on the fight. Everything pretty much worked the same. Stoneguard literally the entire fight changes each week. It's horrendous.
So we went in and started attempts on Heroic Feng. What in the fuck. I feel really bad for the healers, cause there's so much damage going out, all the time. Raid is constantly getting hammered. Tanks are getting trucked. There's barely any downtime. We decided our order was Arcane > Shadow > Lightning > Fire. Phase 1 goes fine. We've ironed that out and it's very smooth. Phase 2 is what's fucking us now. Few reasons. One, it's an entirely new phase to the fight and people are still learning it. Two, we're lacking in the AoE department. The adds spawn and we seriously struggle to kill them. Out of all our attempts tonight, we killed maybe one set. Every other attempt the adds hit the shield and boss healed back up to full. So we're brickwalling at Phase 2.
We skipped Stoneguard for some reason even tho we made good progress because Feng looked easier only to find out it's not. Are you practicising each phase individually? There is no point to doing phase 1, wiping in phase 2 when the only change is 5% more damage. We started on the add phase and found our raid group sucks at AOE even tho it shouldn't really be a problem. We will keep doing it until we get it right repeatedly, then we will do the earthquake phase first so our OT can learn to nab the stun off a dps which will take him four weeks.
Arch, even before this change, was a fucking joy to level compared to fishing.
That's one they really need to look at. It, more than Arch, should give a skill up per cast.
Well they did make the Angler's book. But that IS hidden behind a rep grind and costs money. There is no need for fishing skill anymore anyway, other than the "oh look hey I made 600 fishing", because pools dont require you to have skill.
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
edited October 2012
Fishing is boring but I'm not sure if it's worse than Archaeology. At least with fishing you are guaranteed a skillup every X number of fish, no matter where you fish (even if you spent the entire time in Stormwind or something). And there are dailies that award +fishing skill (particularly Anglers). Archaeology had none of that - you only got skillups by completing artifacts which required a ton of back-and-forth travel (esp EK/Kalimdor).
The only thing that makes fishing worse than Arch is that Arch awards cool things on occasion. Fishing has... a super super low drop rate mount from pools... and um, fishing poles? And I guess the crab from the fishing daily bag. (and whatever Anglers rep rewards, but most are still fishing-related besides the pet and mount)
I just mentioned it because that player was apparently quite concerned that we weren't progressing at his 'optimal' speed, whatever that would have been, and doing so in gear not optimized for PvE was funny to me. I don't doubt that PvP gear isn't as detrimental to PvE as it used to be, but still, not optimal.
You still don't seem to be getting it.
Crafted PvP gear is ilevel 450. If he is buying PvP gear to do heroics in, then he is being optimal. The only difference between PvP and PvE gear is that PvP gear's ilevel is lower than PvE at each tier. But if you are running heroics in crafted PvP gear, then you need the 463 drops and have the highest item budget possible for where you are at in gear progression. There is LITERALLY no stat difference than if he took off the crafted PvP gear and put on 450 PvE stuff except for maybe 460 hit instead of 460 crit. The only way he is being less than optimal is if you demand the utmost highest possible ilevel gear and he comes in wearing PvP epics, which still outgears heroics to a ridiculous degree.
No doubt he's an asshole, but "lol he's doing heroics in PvP gear" means dick now. They intentionally designed it that way.
Sterica on
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Magus`The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered Userregular
Fishing 'cast time' needs to be reduced to 10s max with the last chance of a fish 'proccing' being at 3s left. Also should get a chance to get 1-2 extra fish per cast.
I just mentioned it because that player was apparently quite concerned that we weren't progressing at his 'optimal' speed, whatever that would have been, and doing so in gear not optimized for PvE was funny to me. I don't doubt that PvP gear isn't as detrimental to PvE as it used to be, but still, not optimal.
You still don't seem to be getting it.
Crafted PvP gear is ilevel 450. If he is buying PvP gear to do heroics in, then he is being optimal. The only difference between PvP and PvE gear is that PvP gear's ilevel is lower than PvE at each tier. But if you are running heroics in crafted PvP gear, then you need the 463 drops and have the highest item budget possible for where you are at in gear progression. There is LITERALLY no stat difference than if he took off the crafted PvP gear and put on 450 PvE stuff except for maybe 460 hit instead of 460 crit. The only way he is being less than optimal is if you demand the utmost highest possible ilevel gear and he comes in wearing PvP epics, which still outgears heroics to a ridiculous degree.
No doubt he's an asshole, but "lol he's doing heroics in PvP gear" means dick now. They intentionally designed it that way.
Well, if he's a plate tank, there is the fact that PvP gear has crit and haste on it and no dodge or parry. Also, it's pretty minor, but the socket bonuses on PvP gear are usually (always?) PvP Power/Resil, so there's a very slight bit of useful stats lost there as well. Reforging allows you to shift some of the junk-for-tanks stats away, but I wouldn't say 350 PvP gear is as good as hypothetical 350 PvE gear for a blood DK or prot warrior.
But yeah, crafted PvP gear is fine for entry heroics, especially if you'd otherwise have some 329 quest green or something in that slot.
Edit: Especially since it was just a couple slots.
At 600 fishing, I've had more "catches" pop up in the last second of channeling than I ever had while getting there. If I had to nail something down about fishing what annoys me the most right now, its that.
I finished leveling alchemy up on my druid to make living steel myself; instead of paying someone to do it for me, to make a Voltron mount. My first combine procced a 5x. I should stop now, right? Because that will surely never happen again.
I think they broke fishing a little bit in 5.0. The last second pop-ups are easily missable again like they were a few patches ago, and I swear sometimes it never pops at all.
Oh wait, doesn't Archaeology give some 363 BoA weapon(s)? Better get rid of those or people will feel forced to do Archaeology to get a weapon!
A polearm (agi) and a caster offhand, specifically. AND they're useable at 85. They are amazing.
Also a 463 mastery trinket that has an on-use pet.
It's not that great but it's nice for leveling and to get your ilvl up easily. I mean, mastery is never bad for tanks, and it's like 800 or something, so there are far worse things; but yeah. It's not like the spear and/or off hand which will last you.
Though, the off-hand one is kinda odd in that they seemed to decide this xpack, or at least this patch, to focus on staves for casters instead of mh/oh. Its actually pretty hard to find a good mh/oh combo pre-raid.
At 600 fishing, I've had more "catches" pop up in the last second of channeling than I ever had while getting there. If I had to nail something down about fishing what annoys me the most right now, its that.
Did you do 1-525 before Mists? Because Mists inexplicably changed the fishing channeling time and the "bobber proc" breakpoints, and not in favor of the players.
I finished leveling alchemy up on my druid to make living steel myself; instead of paying someone to do it for me, to make a Voltron mount. My first combine procced a 5x. I should stop now, right? Because that will surely never happen again.
Wow. I honestly thought they had removed the ability to proc more than 2x, because I've done quite a bit of transmutes so far in MoP (only a few Living Steels, mostly Trillium and gems) and have not once seen more than a 2x proc. My 2x rate has been decent, so I can't really complain, but I had just assumed they got rid of the bigger procs.
You basically proc'ed 4k gold.
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HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
I just mentioned it because that player was apparently quite concerned that we weren't progressing at his 'optimal' speed, whatever that would have been, and doing so in gear not optimized for PvE was funny to me. I don't doubt that PvP gear isn't as detrimental to PvE as it used to be, but still, not optimal.
You still don't seem to be getting it.
Crafted PvP gear is ilevel 450. If he is buying PvP gear to do heroics in, then he is being optimal. The only difference between PvP and PvE gear is that PvP gear's ilevel is lower than PvE at each tier. But if you are running heroics in crafted PvP gear, then you need the 463 drops and have the highest item budget possible for where you are at in gear progression. There is LITERALLY no stat difference than if he took off the crafted PvP gear and put on 450 PvE stuff except for maybe 460 hit instead of 460 crit. The only way he is being less than optimal is if you demand the utmost highest possible ilevel gear and he comes in wearing PvP epics, which still outgears heroics to a ridiculous degree.
No doubt he's an asshole, but "lol he's doing heroics in PvP gear" means dick now. They intentionally designed it that way.
Haha, cute.
No, I understand fine. Let me say it again: I mentioned it because he was complaining about the speed of the run and given that PvP gear, while fine for heroics, is not optimal (pay close attention to those two words), complaining about the speed of a run seemed silly to me. That is, if he's willing to run in non-optimal (not questioning the amount of which we're talking things are optimal) gear, bitching that something took more than an extra minute or two is silly.
I'm not saying, nor have I ever said, "lol he's doing heroics in PvP gear". I'm sure it's fine for heroics. So is not killing things in under thirty seconds. Both are not optimal things, but ultimately don't matter.
I think what Rorus is getting at is that stat for stat equal ilvl gear is identical now, itemization wise. pvp power/res is completely separate itemization from PvE stats in PvP gear now. So an ilvl 450 PvP item will have the exact same primary and secondary stat itemization as a 450 PvE item. It's not a 'not optimal' situation.
If you mean 'not optimal' in that he wasn't in all 463 LFD blues because he was in 450's or something, ok, I guess; even though 450's is a good bit higher than the base requirement for LFD. But if he was in PvP gear of equal or higher ilvl than the PvE gear he could get from LFD, he was actually more than optimal given how itemization works on PvP gear now. So, say, he had some 483 PvP gear, that's better than anything you'll find in LFD or LFR, and damn near on par with normal raids currently. Even if he was in the 458 PvP gear that's only 5ilvl difference from the 463 LFD gear.
If anything, for everything other than a tank, having PvE gear is not optimal at this point. You don't have any better stats with PvE gear and you have no pvp stats so PvE gear is single purpose and PvP gear fills both roles, optimally.
Ugh. Spent the whole night wiping to Will. We would get to the burn phase and everything would go to hell. Either I would die because the healer picked the wrong time to start a conservation phase or dps would get owned from the adds from mismanagement or we would just be too slow in dpsing down Ji/Qi etc etc.
Also pre obtaining heroic gear PVP>Quest gear for heroics. This should be obvious.
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HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
Unless things have changed drastically, you need things like parry and dodge on your gear to be an optimal (not effective, optimal) tank, two things that aren't found on PvP gear. Sure, it'll have identical Str/Sta, but with PvP power/PvP resil taking the place of tanking stats, it's less than optimal. It just is. It's not -bad- at all, it's good gear. More than fine for tanking heroics. It's just not gear intended for the purpose of tanking (hence the absence of dodge/parry), and is thus statted differently. I realize the devs didn't include tanking plate in their entry-level craftables this expansion. Dumb, but whatever.
And anyway that was so far away from the point of the story in the first place I'm not even sure why we're belaboring it, but whatever. Agree to disagree I suppose.
Anyway, so I made my first run on the Sha of Anger tonight. One bonus coin used, only gold received, as expected. Oh well, at least I got some nice boots out of the deal.
Man, shit. Our raid tonight decided to give up on Heroic Stoneguard tonight as A) It was Jasper, Amethyst, and Cobalt, We've already gotten a kill on Heroic Stoneguard and wanted more time on Feng instead. Which honestly I'm fine with. Having to relearn an entire fight each week is nonsense. Atleast with say, Halfus, the weekly rotation didn't have a huge impact on the fight. Everything pretty much worked the same. Stoneguard literally the entire fight changes each week. It's horrendous.
So we went in and started attempts on Heroic Feng. What in the fuck. I feel really bad for the healers, cause there's so much damage going out, all the time. Raid is constantly getting hammered. Tanks are getting trucked. There's barely any downtime. We decided our order was Arcane > Shadow > Lightning > Fire. Phase 1 goes fine. We've ironed that out and it's very smooth. Phase 2 is what's fucking us now. Few reasons. One, it's an entirely new phase to the fight and people are still learning it. Two, we're lacking in the AoE department. The adds spawn and we seriously struggle to kill them. Out of all our attempts tonight, we killed maybe one set. Every other attempt the adds hit the shield and boss healed back up to full. So we're brickwalling at Phase 2.
We skipped Stoneguard for some reason even tho we made good progress because Feng looked easier only to find out it's not. Are you practicising each phase individually? There is no point to doing phase 1, wiping in phase 2 when the only change is 5% more damage. We started on the add phase and found our raid group sucks at AOE even tho it shouldn't really be a problem. We will keep doing it until we get it right repeatedly, then we will do the earthquake phase first so our OT can learn to nab the stun off a dps which will take him four weeks.
On our first time seeing him, we had 30 minutes left in the raid, so we decided to just do each phase once, just to see it. When we actually started making hard progress on him, we stuck to the normal order. Phase 1 (Arcane) was going fine for us, but for a long time Phase 2 (Shield) was tripping us up. Eventually we decided to just keep going even though the adds were hitting the shield, just to get practice in. Eventually things started to click. We were making small progress each attempt, little baby steps. But it was progress. Eventually we got to Phase 3 (Earthquake) and got through that on our first attempt. We didn't bother to try grabbing Lightning Fists to interrupt Epicenter, but we probably should have. Then a tank and healer died, but we got to 15% before we wiped.
So yeah, definitely stick with the same order each time. It helps people perfect each phase. You will see progress being made eventually. A few tips, make sure you have stuns/slows/knockbacks going out on the adds. If you have a Druid, have them spec into Ursol's Vortex, it's amazing. The tanks should be going balls to the wall on AoEing the adds as well. On every attempt I as a Brewmaster was doing the most damage to the adds.
Unless things have changed drastically, you need things like parry and dodge on your gear to be an optimal (not effective, optimal) tank, two things that aren't found on PvP gear. Sure, it'll have identical Str/Sta, but with PvP power/PvP resil taking the place of tanking stats, it's less than optimal. It just is. It's not -bad- at all, it's good gear. More than fine for tanking heroics. It's just not gear intended for the purpose of tanking (hence the absence of dodge/parry), and is thus statted differently. I realize the devs didn't include tanking plate in their entry-level craftables this expansion. Dumb, but whatever.
And anyway that was so far away from the point of the story in the first place I'm not even sure why we're belaboring it, but whatever. Agree to disagree I suppose.
Anyway, so I made my first run on the Sha of Anger tonight. One bonus coin used, only gold received, as expected. Oh well, at least I got some nice boots out of the deal.
Things have changed. Active mitigation is a thing now.
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If someone puts the time in to learn and overcome heroic-difficulty raids, then I absolutely think that they should be rewarded more - there is a clear-cut difference between the challenge in a normal mode encounter versus that of a heroic one. But the difficulty of 10s/25s have varied wildly from encounter to encounter pretty much since their inception. It's just harder to pin down "yep, these folks are putting in more effort" in that equation, and as has been said, rewarding those 25s creates further guild drama.
For me, in the end I honestly don't care - I'd be surprised if my guild ends up raiding at all in the next several months. I think only a handful of us have even done LFR yet. So if I had to extrapolate and make some assumptions, I don't know how many guilds this is really going to affect, at least in the short term. I just think it's an unfortunate precedent to set.
It was in the patch notes wasn't it? (or hotfix notes, I forget where they added it)
Edit: Hotfix notes, first line:
Might.
Does it go all the way to 600?
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
That's one they really need to look at. It, more than Arch, should give a skill up per cast.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
We skipped Stoneguard for some reason even tho we made good progress because Feng looked easier only to find out it's not. Are you practicising each phase individually? There is no point to doing phase 1, wiping in phase 2 when the only change is 5% more damage. We started on the add phase and found our raid group sucks at AOE even tho it shouldn't really be a problem. We will keep doing it until we get it right repeatedly, then we will do the earthquake phase first so our OT can learn to nab the stun off a dps which will take him four weeks.
Well they did make the Angler's book. But that IS hidden behind a rep grind and costs money. There is no need for fishing skill anymore anyway, other than the "oh look hey I made 600 fishing", because pools dont require you to have skill.
The only thing that makes fishing worse than Arch is that Arch awards cool things on occasion. Fishing has... a super super low drop rate mount from pools... and um, fishing poles? And I guess the crab from the fishing daily bag. (and whatever Anglers rep rewards, but most are still fishing-related besides the pet and mount)
Crafted PvP gear is ilevel 450. If he is buying PvP gear to do heroics in, then he is being optimal. The only difference between PvP and PvE gear is that PvP gear's ilevel is lower than PvE at each tier. But if you are running heroics in crafted PvP gear, then you need the 463 drops and have the highest item budget possible for where you are at in gear progression. There is LITERALLY no stat difference than if he took off the crafted PvP gear and put on 450 PvE stuff except for maybe 460 hit instead of 460 crit. The only way he is being less than optimal is if you demand the utmost highest possible ilevel gear and he comes in wearing PvP epics, which still outgears heroics to a ridiculous degree.
No doubt he's an asshole, but "lol he's doing heroics in PvP gear" means dick now. They intentionally designed it that way.
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But yeah, crafted PvP gear is fine for entry heroics, especially if you'd otherwise have some 329 quest green or something in that slot.
Edit: Especially since it was just a couple slots.
A polearm (agi) and a caster offhand, specifically. AND they're useable at 85. They are amazing.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
I finished leveling alchemy up on my druid to make living steel myself; instead of paying someone to do it for me, to make a Voltron mount. My first combine procced a 5x. I should stop now, right? Because that will surely never happen again.
we've been working on heroic 25 troll guy, and if you lose one person even if ressed immediately you are not going to make the rage timer.
have to pay attention to preemptively click @ ~1.5 seconds every third cast now
Also a 463 mastery trinket that has an on-use pet.
It's not that great but it's nice for leveling and to get your ilvl up easily. I mean, mastery is never bad for tanks, and it's like 800 or something, so there are far worse things; but yeah. It's not like the spear and/or off hand which will last you.
Though, the off-hand one is kinda odd in that they seemed to decide this xpack, or at least this patch, to focus on staves for casters instead of mh/oh. Its actually pretty hard to find a good mh/oh combo pre-raid.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Wow. I honestly thought they had removed the ability to proc more than 2x, because I've done quite a bit of transmutes so far in MoP (only a few Living Steels, mostly Trillium and gems) and have not once seen more than a 2x proc. My 2x rate has been decent, so I can't really complain, but I had just assumed they got rid of the bigger procs.
You basically proc'ed 4k gold.
No, I understand fine. Let me say it again: I mentioned it because he was complaining about the speed of the run and given that PvP gear, while fine for heroics, is not optimal (pay close attention to those two words), complaining about the speed of a run seemed silly to me. That is, if he's willing to run in non-optimal (not questioning the amount of which we're talking things are optimal) gear, bitching that something took more than an extra minute or two is silly.
I'm not saying, nor have I ever said, "lol he's doing heroics in PvP gear". I'm sure it's fine for heroics. So is not killing things in under thirty seconds. Both are not optimal things, but ultimately don't matter.
If you mean 'not optimal' in that he wasn't in all 463 LFD blues because he was in 450's or something, ok, I guess; even though 450's is a good bit higher than the base requirement for LFD. But if he was in PvP gear of equal or higher ilvl than the PvE gear he could get from LFD, he was actually more than optimal given how itemization works on PvP gear now. So, say, he had some 483 PvP gear, that's better than anything you'll find in LFD or LFR, and damn near on par with normal raids currently. Even if he was in the 458 PvP gear that's only 5ilvl difference from the 463 LFD gear.
If anything, for everything other than a tank, having PvE gear is not optimal at this point. You don't have any better stats with PvE gear and you have no pvp stats so PvE gear is single purpose and PvP gear fills both roles, optimally.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Also pre obtaining heroic gear PVP>Quest gear for heroics. This should be obvious.
And anyway that was so far away from the point of the story in the first place I'm not even sure why we're belaboring it, but whatever. Agree to disagree I suppose.
Anyway, so I made my first run on the Sha of Anger tonight. One bonus coin used, only gold received, as expected. Oh well, at least I got some nice boots out of the deal.
On our first time seeing him, we had 30 minutes left in the raid, so we decided to just do each phase once, just to see it. When we actually started making hard progress on him, we stuck to the normal order. Phase 1 (Arcane) was going fine for us, but for a long time Phase 2 (Shield) was tripping us up. Eventually we decided to just keep going even though the adds were hitting the shield, just to get practice in. Eventually things started to click. We were making small progress each attempt, little baby steps. But it was progress. Eventually we got to Phase 3 (Earthquake) and got through that on our first attempt. We didn't bother to try grabbing Lightning Fists to interrupt Epicenter, but we probably should have. Then a tank and healer died, but we got to 15% before we wiped.
So yeah, definitely stick with the same order each time. It helps people perfect each phase. You will see progress being made eventually. A few tips, make sure you have stuns/slows/knockbacks going out on the adds. If you have a Druid, have them spec into Ursol's Vortex, it's amazing. The tanks should be going balls to the wall on AoEing the adds as well. On every attempt I as a Brewmaster was doing the most damage to the adds.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Things have changed. Active mitigation is a thing now.