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[PATV] Monday, February 18, 2013 - CheckPoint Season 2, Ep. 36: Litigation is Magic
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I'm not saying it's not a sound observation of Hasbro's business practices, but I'm sick to death of this attitude.
Also, no one is asking Hasbro to market it, just not destroy it. There is no reason for Fighting is Magic to be a problem for Hasbro if it's not a product they would ever develop anyway. They're not losing anything. There's no market confusion. It is painfully clear who the target audience for the game is.
Kids shows are all about selling toys (why do you think Hasbro, a toy manufacturer, owns the IP) and those toys have to be bought by parents. If the parents think that a show isn't appropriate for their children anymore then they stop buying the toys. And that's bad for hasbro.
Funny thing is that if this was a Transformers project then it wouldn't have been squashed, but not because of sexism. It's because Transformers is a show where giant robots beat the crap out of each other. A fighting game would seem to be a natural extension of that. MLP on the other hand is about ponies overcoming adversity through the magic of friendship. How exactly is a fighting game appropriate for that?
It has nothing to do with competition or audience gender or even age, it's just that it's wildly inappropriate for the show's theme. If you really want an MLP fighting game, well, whip up some MUGEN characters. To expect Hasbro to let this one slide as a standalone thing using the license in a wildly inappropriate way is completely absurd.
Plus it sucked. Let's not kid ourselves, Fighting is Magic was terrible. There's no real loss here.
Though there has occationally been a fight or two in it, fighting is NOT core to the MLP concept and values. The target audience strictly doesn't matter in this case - the values Hasbro wish their IP to project do.
And yes, there is something to lose for Hasbro in such a large and public endeavour; Control over their IP (not immediately, but gradually).
Equestria Daily has a fairly good breakdown of it: http://www.equestriadaily.com/2013/02/regarding-fighting-is-magic-takedown.html
How'd you review a game that you've never played? Teach me your secrets.
Half the time, it's not even monsters. This is the show that brought us Angel slapping a bitch for fucking up dinner.
Honestly, the idea that the game's content is too violent or dark for Hasbro to touch completely falls apart when you take into account what else they've approved:
Yeah, murdering cats is just fine, but throwing a pie in someone's face? Whoa there, too far.
One can only hope.
But seriously, stealing someone's intellectual property is bad, wrong and illegal. If these guys weren't fully aware of the fact that at some point, Hasbro was going to step in and issue a cease and desist, they're sharing the same fantasy world as those ponies. It's their property and they absolutely have the right to decide how it's used.
If some PA fans ripped off the PA characters to create a game that had the characters doing something that Mike and Jerry disagreed with, then you can bet they'd have their lawyers do the exact same thing.
They do kick the shit out of each other, though. In the actual show.
It's a fighting game spread by word of mouth on the internet, by 20 something nerds. It has absolutely no influence on the primary demographic, but it does have a lot of pull in the secondary, the one that they're trying to cater to more and more. Hell, the pony toys they sell in forbidden planet are better than the ones in Toys R Us or walmart.
The delivery on the line in this episode was well-emphasized on the "GIRLS", giving a rather distinct impression that it seems ridiculous to the entire writing team that girls could enjoy a fighting game. Considering the incredible amount of sexism that surrounds the fighting game community, you can see how this could set off some alarm bells in your more socially-aware (or maybe you could unfavorably say "politically correct") viewers. The point is, in the future should you mean "little children" then just say that, or at least do not make the accident of over-accentuating the fact that the targeted audience for a product is female.
I don't think anyone would have called you out and said "nuh-uh, you meant little girls, children don't watch that show!" but then again, this is the internet and I am getting on your case about saying the word "girls" so who knows.
Post-Feminist-Schoolmarm-Statement-DISCLAIMER: Hey, I enjoy LRR and always watch the newest Checkpoint. This one was pretty good, outside of that bit. I still miss your M:tG show, Friday Nights ;_;
The point is that they stole another parties IP to generate interest in their game.
The question is, would anyone give two poops about this game if it was not MLP? The answer is "no". They are using the MLP IP to promote their own work, to an audience that's not the target of the original IP. And what happens when they let this one slide? It's only a short jump from a MLP brony fighting game to a full on My Little Beastiality: Touching Wangs is Magic pony sex simulation and then what does Hasbro do when it's IP is attached to that?
Hyperbole? This is the Internet. Such doesn't exist.
God, this entire issue is insane. Sure, the cartoon show has neat animation and whatever. But there's sadly a group of really twisted people who use the label "Brony" and are extremely crude and sick. "Bronies" that aren't like that, not admitting that they exist is not helping you. There is a problem, and you're going way too overboard. Chill the hell out..
Also, Kathleen? I'm.. Not seeing how "Tomb Raider is now just Uncharted mixed with Gears of War" makes it 'better'. Copying something that "was inspired by Tomb Raider" and mixing it with the grim-dark Gears of War.. Doesn't make it better. It's just polishing a turd. What exactly is original about it? Hell, cramming in multiplayer (which is apparently a fucking must-do these days..) to a singleplayer experience, whether by a different company or not (Deus Ex: Human Revolution's main story bosses anyone? Not made in-house!) is an unsettling sign as well.. There's already *more* than enough cover-based shooters. We don't need more. We need *originality*. Sadly, something Western devs don't seem to grasp the concept of. Luckily, Japan is still wacky enough to avoid being bland..
STEAM
Except nobody is doing that.
Yes, we get it. People who watch the girl cartoon have taken the place of furries in most internet communities. Everyone knows there's weirdos, but the reason we don't point them out is because it's worse than leaving them alone. Constantly obsessing over the creeps is worse than the creeps themselves.
No they didn't. They never claimed the IP was theirs*, and they've not deprived the "owners" of anything. There's no theft. The actual creators, the moral owners of the cartoon, the characters, the setting as a whole have unambiguously approved of the game.
*
You can argue from a legal standpoint, but I don't care. The idea that ideas are something you can put on a list of company assets next to toilet paper and staplers is one of the biggest mass delusions of our time.
And besides, these guys are smart. They have lawyers, an open line of communication with hasbro, and what they are creating is demonstrability less obscene than the official media itself. And if hasbro can't see the blatant advantage in growing a demographic they are now marketing products to, the show creator herself has offered to create a new character set.
That shows not only a gross misunderstanding of the situation RE: Mane6, fandom, official media... But also the game development process. You can't just slap six horses on to generic "fighters" and have it work. All the moves are taken directly out the show, even.
That's rediculous and without merit. For one, if you do some googlin' there's far worse than what you just described out there. Far worse.
I don't think this is targeted at me but I'd just like to add to my earlier statement:
1) I am not a Brony
2) I do not deny that Hasbro has a generally gender-normative marketing department and they are attempted to target young girls
3) I really don't think Hasbro is wrong to stop someone else stealing their IP
On that last point, I dunno how many of you play WH40k but if Games Workshop is still acceptable when they actively destroy positive fan-made materials that add value to their niche and community-dependent brand, I really cannot see Hasbro being wrong for stopping something that isn't necessarily positive, especially when they're almost definitely not dependent on the Brony community.
AHEM. Joystiq headlines.
Google+: http://gplus.to/kathleen
Cat Comic: http://thingsmycathates.tumblr.com
I'm not surprised that Hasbro would be uptight about protecting the image of a children's franchise whenever they can single someone out, especially considering all the sexual shit certain people have been making with MLP. It could be damaging to their image in the intended market. I know some of you don't care, but they sure do! Maybe Hasbro has had enough and are finally putting their foot (hoof?) down.
Instead of whining about how unfair all this is, try writing an email to the creators asking them why they keep going after fan works like this. Some of these creative people have blogs and such. If you can actually get through to them that might make more of a difference since they have more power in this situation than you. At the very least (more likely) you might get a good reason why they have to do it, right from the horse's mouth.
They have the right to try and stop projects that could be confused for legit products made by Hasbro and could tarnish their "kid safe" brand. Image counts for a lot in business. They have the right to try and stop unauthorized people from making money or fame off of their franchises. Lots of traffic on their site? Domain is worth more now and all the fans would have to do is put some ads up on the game site. They could also get attention for their other work which is using these celebrity cartoon characters for unauthorized endorsement.
Yeah maybe that wasn't the fans' intent but the lawyers aren't paid to see it from that angle. Their job is to protect the integrity of the franchise. Haters gonna...
If the fans really wanted to make a game like this public they should have changed the characters and world just enough so they couldn't get called out. (Though remember when Penny Arcade made that racy Strawberry Shortcake parody comic and they had to take it down? There's fine lines even in parody.) Or better yet? Anonymously release a torrent of the game as is.
MLP porn games and such I imagine can't easily be tracked back to their creators (unlike this non-porn, fighting game), since those are creepy and kept in the shadows. I have never come across one of those porn games, meaning you would most likely have to intentionally be looking for them. This fighting game came up on a whim and the graphics look official. Easy confusion for non-gamer mainstream people, and some kids and parents, who don't think too hard about what they're looking at.
Bottom line is once something is on the internet you can usually find it again. The game will turn up somewhere, so if you really liked it stop your crying. ...and yeah we're going to keep calling out how creepy some of the fans are because they do exist and they are creepy. Don't like it? Then stop being so damn creepy. Not everyone likes me either for different reasons. Social consequences, baby!
@Viktor Walters
I totally agree with your comment on females who play fighting games. I take this program pretty lightly, but I was taken aback when that comment was made in the episode. Probably because as a little girl one of my favorite franchises was Mortal Kombat.
Was it a sarcastic comment on the social construct that it's ok for little boys to play with martial artists, ninjas and soldiers, but not our fragile little girls? Maybe? I dunno.
Not going to stop watching or take that personally, but I thought that confusing comment in the episode might have been worded better.
Wow, that's a lot of words that miss the point, fail to acknowlage the creators are actually okay with it, and then some dumbassery where you decide that literally everyone who watches show X is creepy based on nothing more than "because I say so". Plus bonus "lol, u care".
Failing to defend a trademark absolutely erodes control over it, in real legal terms.
your = belonging to you
their = belonging to them
there = not here
they're = they are
That's what rainbowhyphen is pointing out - Hasbro can either absorb a project or shut it down to control their IP, so they could have chose the former.
However, it's naive to think that a company has the resources to absorb any given fan project that just happens to be a good idea. Unless Hasbro makes a statement, all we can do is assume. Some creators of the show already voiced their interest in the game, but in most cases the legal department of a company is far removed from the creative, and even marketing, departments. A lot of these legal departments just find projects and shut them down as a matter of course.
I didn't say "children" because the show is only marketed to girls. True, the girls part isn't relevant at all to fighting games, but it is relevant to the joke's delivery (comparing the two fanbases of 20-something males and 7-years-old girls).
While it's true that a company that doesn't enforce their IP can lose control of it, that's not the same thing as not allowing anyone use of the IP. If Hasbro had granted the devs permission to make a (non-profit) game, then they would be enforcing their IP, and it wouldn't erode their control in any way.
And also, there seems to be some misinformation in this thread; I don't think anyone is claiming that Hasbro doesn't have the right to shut things down, just a bit disappointed that they choose to do so.
Just as, I suppose, Original Appalachian Artworks, Inc. could allow Eli Roth to make a torture porn movie based on the Cabbage Patch Kids.
I just don't see why anyone would be at all surprised when they didn't.
your = belonging to you
their = belonging to them
there = not here
they're = they are
Correct on all points.
What you're looking at, basically, is the modern day equivalent of a thread about furries. Misinformation and spin doctoring is par for the course, people are more interested in spreading their bias than looking at things accurately. Some of the shit in here is strawmanny enough to put wheat on the endangered species list.
This isn't a Mortal Kombat clone being talked about; it isn't any more violent than the show itself. What's more, Hasbro themselves periodically release flash games on their website, and the MLP ones often involve fighting.
Maybe if there was some blood, or broken bones, or any sort of injury at all, the "too violent" argument would have merit. But there isn't, so it isn't. This is a game where one attack is to throw a pie in someone's face. Literally.
I dunno, I know some pretty violent little 7 year old girls; I have some nieces who would like nothing better than to beat the shit out of each other, in real life or in a game.
I think the biggest problem would be marketing a game based around fighting that is in itself based around "friendship" and the supposed magic therein. Not really so friendly to kick your friends in the face. Plus that whole ridiculous notion that little children, and girls in specific, are some innocent angels. All this seems a much better reasoning.
Though you are generally right, fighting games in general (excluding maybe Smash Bros) are targeted at teens to 20-somethings and up, and not 7 year olds, girls or otherwise.
If ya wanna see something that really messes with the brand, check out the nearest pound shop. Knockoff Technicolor Horses as far as the eye can see. Hell, even big places like Smyths are stocking packs of fake ponies, right there on the shelf next to the real deal. That would be where to start if you were really concerned about things eating your profits, short or long term.
I'm betting it was just legal drone #14345 operating on the generic policy to C&D anything that they come across that uses the trademark without a licence. It's hardly a grand statement of intent, just some guy far away from the actual decision makers going "wait, wasn't there something in the employee handbook about this?".
The people who make the show would disagree. I believe in M.A. Larson indeed.