Batman is an especially problematic case of comic book age
because as that Shortpacked pointed out, Batman being perpetually in his 30's creates weirdness if you start thinking about Batman as a person who existed alongside a real timeline.
like, as a thought experiment, consider the following:
Batman is generally accepted to be 30, and in the New 52 continuity this is almost explicitly the case.
So if we assume in 2015, Batman is 30 years old, then he was born in 1985
Here would be some touchstones of Batman's life:
- When Bruce was 6 years old, the SNES came out in North America. The Waynes were pretty rich. Chances are, 6 year old Bruce probably had a SNES. Keep in mind, though, this means that Batman is not old enough to have living memory of playing a NES game when it was the current gen system.
- You know what else happened when Bruce was 6? The fall of the Soviet Union. That's right, the fall of the USSR happened when Batman was six god damn years old.
- Y'know how Bruce's parents getting killed outside a movie theater is considered one of the most formative experiences of his life and all that? Yeah, commonly, the movie in question is considered a Zorro movie, right? Well, when Bruce was 13 there was, in fact, a Zorro movie in theatres... it was the Mask of Zorro, starring Antonio Banderas and Catherine Zeta-Jones.
- When Bruce was in high school, the most popular musicians were Britney Spears, Eminem, NSYNC, Coldplay, and Creed. But Bruce probably didn't listen to any of that, because he was a fucked up white kid with problems. So what kind of bands were popular with fucked up white kids with problems during that time? Shit like KoRn, Slipknot, Limp Bizkit, etc. Yeah, think about the God Damn Batman sitting up in his room clutching his knees listening to that shit.
- You know what else happened when Bruce was still in high school? 9/11 He was 16. He probably watched it on TV in the cafeteria or something like a bunch of other stunned high schoolers.
This is why people don't like to think about Batman like a person.
He's like Jesus. You see him have a childhood, maybe like one anecdote from when he was a teenager of something, and then suddenly he's in his late 20's/early 30's into his career of being a legend.
You don't want to think about him like a human being living in our world. That shit's weird.
it's hilarious
Gotham tries to skirt this issue by taking place in some weird Archer-style universe where nobody seems clear on what year it is and there's like
no touchstones or connections to the real world on any level
one of the many
many ways
Gotham is an atrocious conceptual failure
Everything about Gotham is a terrible idea. It's one of the worst pitches ever.
Gotham is basically a perfect example of a concept I like to call "drinking the sand"
like
if you put someone in the desert long enough
they'll be so mad with thirst that eventually they'll drink the sand if you dye it blue and tell them it's water
people love Batman and he's a fucking easy character to do on TV
Arrow has basically proven you can do Batman on a TV budget because Arrow is so hilariously eating Batman's lunch they don't even try to hide it
but WB are a bunch of cawing morons who have had one successful superhero film franchise in over 30 years and it's Batman so they're afraid an honest to god live action Batman show will like
damage the brand or something
so instead every couple years they do something like Birds of Prey or Gotham and people watch it even though they are ill-conceived, terrible shows
because they're at least tangentially, tenuously, related to Batman
it's blue sand
it's not water
but people will drink it and tell you it's good because god they love Batman so god damn much and they want a Batman TV show so god damn bad
I like Arrow better then a similar Batman equivalent. They can do alot more interesting things and the whole 5-year Island Mystery works really well.
I also like Arrow better, to be honest
He's free of Bat-Baggage
he gets to be a human being instead of having to be some weird fucking atonal Ubermensch like Batman has become in the comics and the films
I didn't like the three Nolan Batman films, like at all.
I liked the Arkham games but that's about it. Even those are only cool to me more because of the characters Batman meets and the world the game is set in than anything to do with Batman.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
Batman is an especially problematic case of comic book age
because as that Shortpacked pointed out, Batman being perpetually in his 30's creates weirdness if you start thinking about Batman as a person who existed alongside a real timeline.
like, as a thought experiment, consider the following:
Batman is generally accepted to be 30, and in the New 52 continuity this is almost explicitly the case.
So if we assume in 2015, Batman is 30 years old, then he was born in 1985
Here would be some touchstones of Batman's life:
- When Bruce was 6 years old, the SNES came out in North America. The Waynes were pretty rich. Chances are, 6 year old Bruce probably had a SNES. Keep in mind, though, this means that Batman is not old enough to have living memory of playing a NES game when it was the current gen system.
- You know what else happened when Bruce was 6? The fall of the Soviet Union. That's right, the fall of the USSR happened when Batman was six god damn years old.
- Y'know how Bruce's parents getting killed outside a movie theater is considered one of the most formative experiences of his life and all that? Yeah, commonly, the movie in question is considered a Zorro movie, right? Well, when Bruce was 13 there was, in fact, a Zorro movie in theatres... it was the Mask of Zorro, starring Antonio Banderas and Catherine Zeta-Jones.
- When Bruce was in high school, the most popular musicians were Britney Spears, Eminem, NSYNC, Coldplay, and Creed. But Bruce probably didn't listen to any of that, because he was a fucked up white kid with problems. So what kind of bands were popular with fucked up white kids with problems during that time? Shit like KoRn, Slipknot, Limp Bizkit, etc. Yeah, think about the God Damn Batman sitting up in his room clutching his knees listening to that shit.
- You know what else happened when Bruce was still in high school? 9/11 He was 16. He probably watched it on TV in the cafeteria or something like a bunch of other stunned high schoolers.
This is why people don't like to think about Batman like a person.
He's like Jesus. You see him have a childhood, maybe like one anecdote from when he was a teenager of something, and then suddenly he's in his late 20's/early 30's into his career of being a legend.
You don't want to think about him like a human being living in our world. That shit's weird.
it's hilarious
Gotham tries to skirt this issue by taking place in some weird Archer-style universe where nobody seems clear on what year it is and there's like
no touchstones or connections to the real world on any level
one of the many
many ways
Gotham is an atrocious conceptual failure
Everything about Gotham is a terrible idea. It's one of the worst pitches ever.
Gotham is basically a perfect example of a concept I like to call "drinking the sand"
like
if you put someone in the desert long enough
they'll be so mad with thirst that eventually they'll drink the sand if you dye it blue and tell them it's water
people love Batman and he's a fucking easy character to do on TV
Arrow has basically proven you can do Batman on a TV budget because Arrow is so hilariously eating Batman's lunch they don't even try to hide it
but WB are a bunch of cawing morons who have had one successful superhero film franchise in over 30 years and it's Batman so they're afraid an honest to god live action Batman show will like
damage the brand or something
so instead every couple years they do something like Birds of Prey or Gotham and people watch it even though they are ill-conceived, terrible shows
because they're at least tangentially, tenuously, related to Batman
it's blue sand
it's not water
but people will drink it and tell you it's good because god they love Batman so god damn much and they want a Batman TV show so god damn bad
Batman would be a better character if he could turn into a bat and drink blood and was named Dracula.
I didn't like the three Nolan Batman films, like at all.
I liked the Arkham games but that's about it. Even those are only cool to me more because of the characters Batman meets and the world the game is set in than anything to do with Batman.
the thing to know about Arrow is it is a serial show
it has an over-arching storyline and builds its characters over time, characters evolve and change, and you see Oliver Queen slowly become the Arrow over the course of the first season instead of just YEP I'M A SUPERHERO NOW
so that can be kinda weird and off-putting for some people who go in like, expecting something either light-hearted or like, super grimdark serious, because it's kinda neither of those things?
also the first season is besot with some CW relationship melodrama
Batman is an especially problematic case of comic book age
because as that Shortpacked pointed out, Batman being perpetually in his 30's creates weirdness if you start thinking about Batman as a person who existed alongside a real timeline.
like, as a thought experiment, consider the following:
Batman is generally accepted to be 30, and in the New 52 continuity this is almost explicitly the case.
So if we assume in 2015, Batman is 30 years old, then he was born in 1985
Here would be some touchstones of Batman's life:
- When Bruce was 6 years old, the SNES came out in North America. The Waynes were pretty rich. Chances are, 6 year old Bruce probably had a SNES. Keep in mind, though, this means that Batman is not old enough to have living memory of playing a NES game when it was the current gen system.
- You know what else happened when Bruce was 6? The fall of the Soviet Union. That's right, the fall of the USSR happened when Batman was six god damn years old.
- Y'know how Bruce's parents getting killed outside a movie theater is considered one of the most formative experiences of his life and all that? Yeah, commonly, the movie in question is considered a Zorro movie, right? Well, when Bruce was 13 there was, in fact, a Zorro movie in theatres... it was the Mask of Zorro, starring Antonio Banderas and Catherine Zeta-Jones.
- When Bruce was in high school, the most popular musicians were Britney Spears, Eminem, NSYNC, Coldplay, and Creed. But Bruce probably didn't listen to any of that, because he was a fucked up white kid with problems. So what kind of bands were popular with fucked up white kids with problems during that time? Shit like KoRn, Slipknot, Limp Bizkit, etc. Yeah, think about the God Damn Batman sitting up in his room clutching his knees listening to that shit.
- You know what else happened when Bruce was still in high school? 9/11 He was 16. He probably watched it on TV in the cafeteria or something like a bunch of other stunned high schoolers.
This is why people don't like to think about Batman like a person.
He's like Jesus. You see him have a childhood, maybe like one anecdote from when he was a teenager of something, and then suddenly he's in his late 20's/early 30's into his career of being a legend.
You don't want to think about him like a human being living in our world. That shit's weird.
it's hilarious
Gotham tries to skirt this issue by taking place in some weird Archer-style universe where nobody seems clear on what year it is and there's like
no touchstones or connections to the real world on any level
one of the many
many ways
Gotham is an atrocious conceptual failure
Everything about Gotham is a terrible idea. It's one of the worst pitches ever.
Gotham is basically a perfect example of a concept I like to call "drinking the sand"
like
if you put someone in the desert long enough
they'll be so mad with thirst that eventually they'll drink the sand if you dye it blue and tell them it's water
people love Batman and he's a fucking easy character to do on TV
Arrow has basically proven you can do Batman on a TV budget because Arrow is so hilariously eating Batman's lunch they don't even try to hide it
but WB are a bunch of cawing morons who have had one successful superhero film franchise in over 30 years and it's Batman so they're afraid an honest to god live action Batman show will like
damage the brand or something
so instead every couple years they do something like Birds of Prey or Gotham and people watch it even though they are ill-conceived, terrible shows
because they're at least tangentially, tenuously, related to Batman
it's blue sand
it's not water
but people will drink it and tell you it's good because god they love Batman so god damn much and they want a Batman TV show so god damn bad
I like Arrow better then a similar Batman equivalent. They can do alot more interesting things and the whole 5-year Island Mystery works really well.
I also like Arrow better, to be honest
He's free of Bat-Baggage
he gets to be a human being instead of having to be some weird fucking atonal Ubermensch like Batman has become in the comics and the films
He also gets to change. And be surprising and unique. He gets to be a real character rather then an eternal archetype. The show has actually direction because there's no cows on it sacred enough that they couldn't be slaughtered in the name of better storytelling.
That's probably the thing I like most about The Dark Knight Rises. It's a Batman story with a goddamn ending.
Batman is an especially problematic case of comic book age
because as that Shortpacked pointed out, Batman being perpetually in his 30's creates weirdness if you start thinking about Batman as a person who existed alongside a real timeline.
like, as a thought experiment, consider the following:
Batman is generally accepted to be 30, and in the New 52 continuity this is almost explicitly the case.
So if we assume in 2015, Batman is 30 years old, then he was born in 1985
Here would be some touchstones of Batman's life:
- When Bruce was 6 years old, the SNES came out in North America. The Waynes were pretty rich. Chances are, 6 year old Bruce probably had a SNES. Keep in mind, though, this means that Batman is not old enough to have living memory of playing a NES game when it was the current gen system.
- You know what else happened when Bruce was 6? The fall of the Soviet Union. That's right, the fall of the USSR happened when Batman was six god damn years old.
- Y'know how Bruce's parents getting killed outside a movie theater is considered one of the most formative experiences of his life and all that? Yeah, commonly, the movie in question is considered a Zorro movie, right? Well, when Bruce was 13 there was, in fact, a Zorro movie in theatres... it was the Mask of Zorro, starring Antonio Banderas and Catherine Zeta-Jones.
- When Bruce was in high school, the most popular musicians were Britney Spears, Eminem, NSYNC, Coldplay, and Creed. But Bruce probably didn't listen to any of that, because he was a fucked up white kid with problems. So what kind of bands were popular with fucked up white kids with problems during that time? Shit like KoRn, Slipknot, Limp Bizkit, etc. Yeah, think about the God Damn Batman sitting up in his room clutching his knees listening to that shit.
- You know what else happened when Bruce was still in high school? 9/11 He was 16. He probably watched it on TV in the cafeteria or something like a bunch of other stunned high schoolers.
This is why people don't like to think about Batman like a person.
He's like Jesus. You see him have a childhood, maybe like one anecdote from when he was a teenager of something, and then suddenly he's in his late 20's/early 30's into his career of being a legend.
You don't want to think about him like a human being living in our world. That shit's weird.
it's hilarious
Gotham tries to skirt this issue by taking place in some weird Archer-style universe where nobody seems clear on what year it is and there's like
no touchstones or connections to the real world on any level
one of the many
many ways
Gotham is an atrocious conceptual failure
Everything about Gotham is a terrible idea. It's one of the worst pitches ever.
Gotham is basically a perfect example of a concept I like to call "drinking the sand"
like
if you put someone in the desert long enough
they'll be so mad with thirst that eventually they'll drink the sand if you dye it blue and tell them it's water
people love Batman and he's a fucking easy character to do on TV
Arrow has basically proven you can do Batman on a TV budget because Arrow is so hilariously eating Batman's lunch they don't even try to hide it
but WB are a bunch of cawing morons who have had one successful superhero film franchise in over 30 years and it's Batman so they're afraid an honest to god live action Batman show will like
damage the brand or something
so instead every couple years they do something like Birds of Prey or Gotham and people watch it even though they are ill-conceived, terrible shows
because they're at least tangentially, tenuously, related to Batman
it's blue sand
it's not water
but people will drink it and tell you it's good because god they love Batman so god damn much and they want a Batman TV show so god damn bad
When I first heard about the Gotham TV series, I thought it would be set between the first and second movies, dealing with the fallout of the first one i.e. The narrows being "lost", which they never actually revisited in the movies, and how the cops deal with the new rogue gallery with Batman in the background (But never actually show or acknowledged since he's supposed to be a myth)
But instead it's all young versions of everybody, and hints and winks. I'm not a huge Batman fan so I don't know 90% of what they're hinting at, and you know they can't really do anything drastic since it's all prequel.
I now have the image of teenage Bruce Wayne listen linkin park, alone in the dark of his bedroom singing along, teary eyed:
Crawling in my skin
These wounds they will not heal
Fear is how I fall
Confusing what is real
There's something inside me that pulls beneath the surface
Consuming, confusing
This lack of self-control I fear is never ending
Controlling. I can't seem...
To find myself again
My walls are closing in
(without a sense of confidence and I'm convinced that there's just too much pressure to take)
I've felt this way before
So insecure
Discomfort endlessly has pulled itself upon me
Distracting, reacting
Against my will I stand beside my own reflection
It's haunting how I can't seem...
There's something inside me that pulls beneath the surface consuming,
Confusing what is real.
This lack of self-control I fear is never ending controlling
and Dark Knight Rises makes a whole lot more sense.
redx on
They moistly come out at night, moistly.
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
Batman is an especially problematic case of comic book age
because as that Shortpacked pointed out, Batman being perpetually in his 30's creates weirdness if you start thinking about Batman as a person who existed alongside a real timeline.
like, as a thought experiment, consider the following:
Batman is generally accepted to be 30, and in the New 52 continuity this is almost explicitly the case.
So if we assume in 2015, Batman is 30 years old, then he was born in 1985
Here would be some touchstones of Batman's life:
- When Bruce was 6 years old, the SNES came out in North America. The Waynes were pretty rich. Chances are, 6 year old Bruce probably had a SNES. Keep in mind, though, this means that Batman is not old enough to have living memory of playing a NES game when it was the current gen system.
- You know what else happened when Bruce was 6? The fall of the Soviet Union. That's right, the fall of the USSR happened when Batman was six god damn years old.
- Y'know how Bruce's parents getting killed outside a movie theater is considered one of the most formative experiences of his life and all that? Yeah, commonly, the movie in question is considered a Zorro movie, right? Well, when Bruce was 13 there was, in fact, a Zorro movie in theatres... it was the Mask of Zorro, starring Antonio Banderas and Catherine Zeta-Jones.
- When Bruce was in high school, the most popular musicians were Britney Spears, Eminem, NSYNC, Coldplay, and Creed. But Bruce probably didn't listen to any of that, because he was a fucked up white kid with problems. So what kind of bands were popular with fucked up white kids with problems during that time? Shit like KoRn, Slipknot, Limp Bizkit, etc. Yeah, think about the God Damn Batman sitting up in his room clutching his knees listening to that shit.
- You know what else happened when Bruce was still in high school? 9/11 He was 16. He probably watched it on TV in the cafeteria or something like a bunch of other stunned high schoolers.
This is why people don't like to think about Batman like a person.
He's like Jesus. You see him have a childhood, maybe like one anecdote from when he was a teenager of something, and then suddenly he's in his late 20's/early 30's into his career of being a legend.
You don't want to think about him like a human being living in our world. That shit's weird.
it's hilarious
Gotham tries to skirt this issue by taking place in some weird Archer-style universe where nobody seems clear on what year it is and there's like
no touchstones or connections to the real world on any level
one of the many
many ways
Gotham is an atrocious conceptual failure
I actually think that that is the most interesting-sounding thing about Gotham by a country mile and also genuinely cool. It's basically exactly what Batman: the Animated Series did - that was a cartoon that took place in a world that had VHS security tapes and black and white TVs. and that show was universally regarded as terrific in part because of flourishes like that.
I think that Batman as a character and Gotham as a setting are basically inextricable and Gotham is, as a semiotic thing, a hard-boiled neverland. Sometimes, like in the 70s and 80s, it feels really hard-hitting and true to what's actually going on somewhere like NYC. Other times, like the 50s, or today, it's wildly out of sync. But ultimately it's no less of a magical otherworld than once-upon-a-time-land, and I worry about Batman's teen music taste about as much as I worry whether Sleeping Beauty read Chaucer or the Prose Eddas or whatever. Like, some characters I think make a lot of sense being super contemporary and up to the minute and hard-hitting and current-eventsy and others I really don't care, and for me, Batman genuinely falls into the latter category.
I didn't like the three Nolan Batman films, like at all.
I liked the Arkham games but that's about it. Even those are only cool to me more because of the characters Batman meets and the world the game is set in than anything to do with Batman.
the thing to know about Arrow is it is a serial show
it has an over-arching storyline and builds its characters over time, characters evolve and change, and you see Oliver Queen slowly become the Arrow over the course of the first season instead of just YEP I'M A SUPERHERO NOW
so that can be kinda weird and off-putting for some people who go in like, expecting something either light-hearted or like, super grimdark serious, because it's kinda neither of those things?
also the first season is besot with some CW relationship melodrama
because it's a CW show
That all actually sounds appealing to me. I mean, I loved the first few seasons of Smallville.
I now have the image of teenage Bruce Wayne listen linkin park, alone in the dark of his bedroom singing along, teary eyed:
Crawling in my skin
These wounds they will not heal
Fear is how I fall
Confusing what is real
There's something inside me that pulls beneath the surface
Consuming, confusing
This lack of self-control I fear is never ending
Controlling. I can't seem...
To find myself again
My walls are closing in
(without a sense of confidence and I'm convinced that there's just too much pressure to take)
I've felt this way before
So insecure
Discomfort endlessly has pulled itself upon me
Distracting, reacting
Against my will I stand beside my own reflection
It's haunting how I can't seem...
There's something inside me that pulls beneath the surface consuming,
Confusing what is real.
This lack of self-control I fear is never ending controlling
and Dark Knight Rises makes a whole lot more sense.
Have you seen the lego movie?
Cuz you definitely should if you haven't
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
Batman is an especially problematic case of comic book age
because as that Shortpacked pointed out, Batman being perpetually in his 30's creates weirdness if you start thinking about Batman as a person who existed alongside a real timeline.
like, as a thought experiment, consider the following:
Batman is generally accepted to be 30, and in the New 52 continuity this is almost explicitly the case.
So if we assume in 2015, Batman is 30 years old, then he was born in 1985
Here would be some touchstones of Batman's life:
- When Bruce was 6 years old, the SNES came out in North America. The Waynes were pretty rich. Chances are, 6 year old Bruce probably had a SNES. Keep in mind, though, this means that Batman is not old enough to have living memory of playing a NES game when it was the current gen system.
- You know what else happened when Bruce was 6? The fall of the Soviet Union. That's right, the fall of the USSR happened when Batman was six god damn years old.
- Y'know how Bruce's parents getting killed outside a movie theater is considered one of the most formative experiences of his life and all that? Yeah, commonly, the movie in question is considered a Zorro movie, right? Well, when Bruce was 13 there was, in fact, a Zorro movie in theatres... it was the Mask of Zorro, starring Antonio Banderas and Catherine Zeta-Jones.
- When Bruce was in high school, the most popular musicians were Britney Spears, Eminem, NSYNC, Coldplay, and Creed. But Bruce probably didn't listen to any of that, because he was a fucked up white kid with problems. So what kind of bands were popular with fucked up white kids with problems during that time? Shit like KoRn, Slipknot, Limp Bizkit, etc. Yeah, think about the God Damn Batman sitting up in his room clutching his knees listening to that shit.
- You know what else happened when Bruce was still in high school? 9/11 He was 16. He probably watched it on TV in the cafeteria or something like a bunch of other stunned high schoolers.
This is why people don't like to think about Batman like a person.
He's like Jesus. You see him have a childhood, maybe like one anecdote from when he was a teenager of something, and then suddenly he's in his late 20's/early 30's into his career of being a legend.
You don't want to think about him like a human being living in our world. That shit's weird.
it's hilarious
Gotham tries to skirt this issue by taking place in some weird Archer-style universe where nobody seems clear on what year it is and there's like
no touchstones or connections to the real world on any level
one of the many
many ways
Gotham is an atrocious conceptual failure
Everything about Gotham is a terrible idea. It's one of the worst pitches ever.
Gotham is basically a perfect example of a concept I like to call "drinking the sand"
like
if you put someone in the desert long enough
they'll be so mad with thirst that eventually they'll drink the sand if you dye it blue and tell them it's water
people love Batman and he's a fucking easy character to do on TV
Arrow has basically proven you can do Batman on a TV budget because Arrow is so hilariously eating Batman's lunch they don't even try to hide it
but WB are a bunch of cawing morons who have had one successful superhero film franchise in over 30 years and it's Batman so they're afraid an honest to god live action Batman show will like
damage the brand or something
so instead every couple years they do something like Birds of Prey or Gotham and people watch it even though they are ill-conceived, terrible shows
because they're at least tangentially, tenuously, related to Batman
it's blue sand
it's not water
but people will drink it and tell you it's good because god they love Batman so god damn much and they want a Batman TV show so god damn bad
When I first heard about the Gotham TV series, I thought it would be set between the first and second movies, dealing with the fallout of the first one i.e. The narrows being "lost", which they never actually revisited in the movies, and how the cops deal with the new rogue gallery with Batman in the background (But never actually show or acknowledged since he's supposed to be a myth)
But instead it's all young versions of everybody, and hints and winks. I'm not a huge Batman fan so I don't know 90% of what they're hinting at, and you know they can't really do anything drastic since it's all prequel.
Everybody was hoping for a Gotham Central story. (basically a cop procedural in Gotham, so Batman and his villains exist but they aren't the protagonists or main characters) That would have been interesting.
But it would have been too risky. Cause you have Batman without Batman, omg! So instead you get a fucking Batman prequel where it's obvious it's a prequel so they can focus on Batman and his iconic characters without having to risk actually showing them because the show is all about (at least when I saw it) hinting at how everyone is totally gonna be famous later on. In a far more interesting series they will never make.
Alright. Young girl is gone. As young girls are often want to do.
Hm. I suppose that's good in the long run. But for a second I felt like I had a chance for redemption. And it's wrong to use someone else for that. Learning. Slowly.
I like how Arrow started out with him basically just killing everyone who got in his way and he didn't really turn into a hero until season 2
edit: another great thing is the Flash Arrow crossover
one of the best moments of either series is when Ollie is like MY PARENTS ARE DEAAAAAAAAAAAAD and the Flash is like "so fucking what that doesn't justify anything you do"
Batman is an especially problematic case of comic book age
because as that Shortpacked pointed out, Batman being perpetually in his 30's creates weirdness if you start thinking about Batman as a person who existed alongside a real timeline.
like, as a thought experiment, consider the following:
Batman is generally accepted to be 30, and in the New 52 continuity this is almost explicitly the case.
So if we assume in 2015, Batman is 30 years old, then he was born in 1985
Here would be some touchstones of Batman's life:
- When Bruce was 6 years old, the SNES came out in North America. The Waynes were pretty rich. Chances are, 6 year old Bruce probably had a SNES. Keep in mind, though, this means that Batman is not old enough to have living memory of playing a NES game when it was the current gen system.
- You know what else happened when Bruce was 6? The fall of the Soviet Union. That's right, the fall of the USSR happened when Batman was six god damn years old.
- Y'know how Bruce's parents getting killed outside a movie theater is considered one of the most formative experiences of his life and all that? Yeah, commonly, the movie in question is considered a Zorro movie, right? Well, when Bruce was 13 there was, in fact, a Zorro movie in theatres... it was the Mask of Zorro, starring Antonio Banderas and Catherine Zeta-Jones.
- When Bruce was in high school, the most popular musicians were Britney Spears, Eminem, NSYNC, Coldplay, and Creed. But Bruce probably didn't listen to any of that, because he was a fucked up white kid with problems. So what kind of bands were popular with fucked up white kids with problems during that time? Shit like KoRn, Slipknot, Limp Bizkit, etc. Yeah, think about the God Damn Batman sitting up in his room clutching his knees listening to that shit.
- You know what else happened when Bruce was still in high school? 9/11 He was 16. He probably watched it on TV in the cafeteria or something like a bunch of other stunned high schoolers.
This is why people don't like to think about Batman like a person.
He's like Jesus. You see him have a childhood, maybe like one anecdote from when he was a teenager of something, and then suddenly he's in his late 20's/early 30's into his career of being a legend.
You don't want to think about him like a human being living in our world. That shit's weird.
it's hilarious
Gotham tries to skirt this issue by taking place in some weird Archer-style universe where nobody seems clear on what year it is and there's like
no touchstones or connections to the real world on any level
one of the many
many ways
Gotham is an atrocious conceptual failure
I actually think that that is the most interesting-sounding thing about Gotham by a country mile and also genuinely cool. It's basically exactly what Batman: the Animated Series did - that was a cartoon that took place in a world that had VHS security tapes and black and white TVs. and that show was universally regarded as terrific in part because of flourishes like that.
I think that Batman as a character and Gotham as a setting are basically inextricable and Gotham is, as a semiotic thing, a hard-boiled neverland. Sometimes, like in the 70s and 80s, it feels really hard-hitting and true to what's actually going on somewhere like NYC. Other times, like the 50s, or today, it's wildly out of sync. But ultimately it's no less of a magical otherworld than once-upon-a-time-land, and I worry about Batman's teen music taste about as much as I worry whether Sleeping Beauty read Chaucer or the Prose Eddas or whatever. Like, some characters I think make a lot of sense being super contemporary and up to the minute and hard-hitting and current-eventsy and others I really don't care, and for me, Batman genuinely falls into the latter category.
Most superhero stories kinda do this anyway. They are all sorta caught in a pseudo-70s/80s of brutal urban crime and decay.
Alright. Young girl is gone. As young girls are often want to do.
Hm. I suppose that's good in the long run. But for a second I felt like I had a chance for redemption. And it's wrong to use someone else for that. Learning. Slowly.
Batman is an especially problematic case of comic book age
because as that Shortpacked pointed out, Batman being perpetually in his 30's creates weirdness if you start thinking about Batman as a person who existed alongside a real timeline.
like, as a thought experiment, consider the following:
Batman is generally accepted to be 30, and in the New 52 continuity this is almost explicitly the case.
So if we assume in 2015, Batman is 30 years old, then he was born in 1985
Here would be some touchstones of Batman's life:
- When Bruce was 6 years old, the SNES came out in North America. The Waynes were pretty rich. Chances are, 6 year old Bruce probably had a SNES. Keep in mind, though, this means that Batman is not old enough to have living memory of playing a NES game when it was the current gen system.
- You know what else happened when Bruce was 6? The fall of the Soviet Union. That's right, the fall of the USSR happened when Batman was six god damn years old.
- Y'know how Bruce's parents getting killed outside a movie theater is considered one of the most formative experiences of his life and all that? Yeah, commonly, the movie in question is considered a Zorro movie, right? Well, when Bruce was 13 there was, in fact, a Zorro movie in theatres... it was the Mask of Zorro, starring Antonio Banderas and Catherine Zeta-Jones.
- When Bruce was in high school, the most popular musicians were Britney Spears, Eminem, NSYNC, Coldplay, and Creed. But Bruce probably didn't listen to any of that, because he was a fucked up white kid with problems. So what kind of bands were popular with fucked up white kids with problems during that time? Shit like KoRn, Slipknot, Limp Bizkit, etc. Yeah, think about the God Damn Batman sitting up in his room clutching his knees listening to that shit.
- You know what else happened when Bruce was still in high school? 9/11 He was 16. He probably watched it on TV in the cafeteria or something like a bunch of other stunned high schoolers.
This is why people don't like to think about Batman like a person.
He's like Jesus. You see him have a childhood, maybe like one anecdote from when he was a teenager of something, and then suddenly he's in his late 20's/early 30's into his career of being a legend.
You don't want to think about him like a human being living in our world. That shit's weird.
JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
Arrow is a show that improves on an almost perfect upward arc. Like, week to week, they get incrementally better at doing what they do and you don't even really notice until you stop and look back and you're like holy shit wait a minute I am way more invested in this than I ever thought I could be
I like how Arrow started out with him basically just killing everyone who got in his way and he didn't really turn into a hero until season 2
I'm still kinda sad about that, despite the fact that it was well done character progression.
One of the best things about S1 was they never minced words about the kind of thing a vigilante with a fucking bow would end up actually doing. Or what the kind of guy who spent half a decade learning to be a badass on a deserted hellish island would come back like.
Batman is an especially problematic case of comic book age
because as that Shortpacked pointed out, Batman being perpetually in his 30's creates weirdness if you start thinking about Batman as a person who existed alongside a real timeline.
like, as a thought experiment, consider the following:
Batman is generally accepted to be 30, and in the New 52 continuity this is almost explicitly the case.
So if we assume in 2015, Batman is 30 years old, then he was born in 1985
Here would be some touchstones of Batman's life:
- When Bruce was 6 years old, the SNES came out in North America. The Waynes were pretty rich. Chances are, 6 year old Bruce probably had a SNES. Keep in mind, though, this means that Batman is not old enough to have living memory of playing a NES game when it was the current gen system.
- You know what else happened when Bruce was 6? The fall of the Soviet Union. That's right, the fall of the USSR happened when Batman was six god damn years old.
- Y'know how Bruce's parents getting killed outside a movie theater is considered one of the most formative experiences of his life and all that? Yeah, commonly, the movie in question is considered a Zorro movie, right? Well, when Bruce was 13 there was, in fact, a Zorro movie in theatres... it was the Mask of Zorro, starring Antonio Banderas and Catherine Zeta-Jones.
- When Bruce was in high school, the most popular musicians were Britney Spears, Eminem, NSYNC, Coldplay, and Creed. But Bruce probably didn't listen to any of that, because he was a fucked up white kid with problems. So what kind of bands were popular with fucked up white kids with problems during that time? Shit like KoRn, Slipknot, Limp Bizkit, etc. Yeah, think about the God Damn Batman sitting up in his room clutching his knees listening to that shit.
- You know what else happened when Bruce was still in high school? 9/11 He was 16. He probably watched it on TV in the cafeteria or something like a bunch of other stunned high schoolers.
This is why people don't like to think about Batman like a person.
He's like Jesus. You see him have a childhood, maybe like one anecdote from when he was a teenager of something, and then suddenly he's in his late 20's/early 30's into his career of being a legend.
You don't want to think about him like a human being living in our world. That shit's weird.
none of this is true
Batman,
*genuflects*
aka bats aka the bat only existed in a version of the 50s where the police had bitchin' airships and ingesting cosmetics could turn you into a shapeshifter
*edit*
The like Jesus part is true if you drop the "like"
like, in the beginning of the show, he's dealing with mobsters and serial killers and nobody really has like, weird nicknames and he doesn't even called himself the Arrow or anything else for that matter
and it takes a while for some honest to god costumed villains to show up, and even the first few are more like, lunatics who happen to wear something that sorta kinda resembles a costume if you squint?
then in season 2 there's actual honest to god supervillains with superpowers and shit and it's all fucking crazytown since
I have had a miserable day and feel the deep desire to make something explode.
Start with your penis.
It may solve your problems.
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spacekungfumanPoor and minority-filledRegistered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Peter Parker was a starving, down on his luck photographer again after one more day. The first story in brand new day was literally "peter is too poor to buy web fluid." After how terrible OMD was, getting this level of regression after all the work JMS did to grow the character up was really galling. There were a few good stories during brand new day, especially the rhino entry in the gauntlet which was amazing, but for the most part, everything about Spiderman was terrible until big time started and advanced the character again.
Alright. Young girl is gone. As young girls are often want to do.
Hm. I suppose that's good in the long run. But for a second I felt like I had a chance for redemption. And it's wrong to use someone else for that. Learning. Slowly.
Redemption by dating a young girl?
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
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And she played Scott Pilgrim's sister, for God's sakes.
I also like Arrow better, to be honest
He's free of Bat-Baggage
he gets to be a human being instead of having to be some weird fucking atonal Ubermensch like Batman has become in the comics and the films
I haven't seen any Gotham.
I didn't like the three Nolan Batman films, like at all.
I liked the Arkham games but that's about it. Even those are only cool to me more because of the characters Batman meets and the world the game is set in than anything to do with Batman.
Bahahah OMG.
the thing to know about Arrow is it is a serial show
it has an over-arching storyline and builds its characters over time, characters evolve and change, and you see Oliver Queen slowly become the Arrow over the course of the first season instead of just YEP I'M A SUPERHERO NOW
so that can be kinda weird and off-putting for some people who go in like, expecting something either light-hearted or like, super grimdark serious, because it's kinda neither of those things?
also the first season is besot with some CW relationship melodrama
because it's a CW show
Who the heck are you?
He also gets to change. And be surprising and unique. He gets to be a real character rather then an eternal archetype. The show has actually direction because there's no cows on it sacred enough that they couldn't be slaughtered in the name of better storytelling.
That's probably the thing I like most about The Dark Knight Rises. It's a Batman story with a goddamn ending.
so much depends upon
a red wheel barrow
glazed with rain water
beside the white chickens
When I first heard about the Gotham TV series, I thought it would be set between the first and second movies, dealing with the fallout of the first one i.e. The narrows being "lost", which they never actually revisited in the movies, and how the cops deal with the new rogue gallery with Batman in the background (But never actually show or acknowledged since he's supposed to be a myth)
But instead it's all young versions of everybody, and hints and winks. I'm not a huge Batman fan so I don't know 90% of what they're hinting at, and you know they can't really do anything drastic since it's all prequel.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
I now have the image of teenage Bruce Wayne listen linkin park, alone in the dark of his bedroom singing along, teary eyed:
and Dark Knight Rises makes a whole lot more sense.
I actually think that that is the most interesting-sounding thing about Gotham by a country mile and also genuinely cool. It's basically exactly what Batman: the Animated Series did - that was a cartoon that took place in a world that had VHS security tapes and black and white TVs. and that show was universally regarded as terrific in part because of flourishes like that.
I think that Batman as a character and Gotham as a setting are basically inextricable and Gotham is, as a semiotic thing, a hard-boiled neverland. Sometimes, like in the 70s and 80s, it feels really hard-hitting and true to what's actually going on somewhere like NYC. Other times, like the 50s, or today, it's wildly out of sync. But ultimately it's no less of a magical otherworld than once-upon-a-time-land, and I worry about Batman's teen music taste about as much as I worry whether Sleeping Beauty read Chaucer or the Prose Eddas or whatever. Like, some characters I think make a lot of sense being super contemporary and up to the minute and hard-hitting and current-eventsy and others I really don't care, and for me, Batman genuinely falls into the latter category.
like it's basically doing every single thing Smallville did wrong and it's mind blowing
That all actually sounds appealing to me. I mean, I loved the first few seasons of Smallville.
Have you seen the lego movie?
Cuz you definitely should if you haven't
nobodyevergotfiredforbuyingibm.jpg
Everybody was hoping for a Gotham Central story. (basically a cop procedural in Gotham, so Batman and his villains exist but they aren't the protagonists or main characters) That would have been interesting.
But it would have been too risky. Cause you have Batman without Batman, omg! So instead you get a fucking Batman prequel where it's obvious it's a prequel so they can focus on Batman and his iconic characters without having to risk actually showing them because the show is all about (at least when I saw it) hinting at how everyone is totally gonna be famous later on. In a far more interesting series they will never make.
Hm. I suppose that's good in the long run. But for a second I felt like I had a chance for redemption. And it's wrong to use someone else for that. Learning. Slowly.
edit: another great thing is the Flash Arrow crossover
one of the best moments of either series is when Ollie is like MY PARENTS ARE DEAAAAAAAAAAAAD and the Flash is like "so fucking what that doesn't justify anything you do"
Most superhero stories kinda do this anyway. They are all sorta caught in a pseudo-70s/80s of brutal urban crime and decay.
not sure if vidya
applying for stuff feels good!
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
I'm still kinda sad about that, despite the fact that it was well done character progression.
One of the best things about S1 was they never minced words about the kind of thing a vigilante with a fucking bow would end up actually doing. Or what the kind of guy who spent half a decade learning to be a badass on a deserted hellish island would come back like.
none of this is true
Batman,
*genuflects*
aka bats aka the bat only existed in a version of the 50s where the police had bitchin' airships and ingesting cosmetics could turn you into a shapeshifter
*edit*
The like Jesus part is true if you drop the "like"
i think it's dumb/contrived that he stopped killing people
especially since diggle is killing people all over the place because he is using guns all the time?
it's not like being a vigilante killer is that much worse than being a hyperviolent vigilante who brutalizes and tortures criminals
but he still shoots people all the time so really it's fine
That's...exactly what it says on the tin.
like, in the beginning of the show, he's dealing with mobsters and serial killers and nobody really has like, weird nicknames and he doesn't even called himself the Arrow or anything else for that matter
and it takes a while for some honest to god costumed villains to show up, and even the first few are more like, lunatics who happen to wear something that sorta kinda resembles a costume if you squint?
then in season 2 there's actual honest to god supervillains with superpowers and shit and it's all fucking crazytown since
Start with your penis.
It may solve your problems.
Redemption by dating a young girl?