Huge loss for the Conservatives. According to Global, only 4 seats didn't go to the Liberals, and they were all for NDP.
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
edited October 2007
Well, I think Tory shot his party in the foot with all his focus on faith-based schooling, really. I'm not entirely sure what he saw in it that people actually cared about.
Well, I think Tory shot his party in the foot with all his focus on faith-based schooling, really. I'm not entirely sure what he saw in it that people actually cared about.
I don't think it was so much as him focusing on it, as everyone else focusing on it.
I don't think there was a single time a liberal spoke when they did not mention that Tory supports faith based schools.
Well, I think Tory shot his party in the foot with all his focus on faith-based schooling, really. I'm not entirely sure what he saw in it that people actually cared about.
I don't think it was so much as him focusing on it, as everyone else focusing on it.
I don't think there was a single time a liberal spoke when they did not mention that Tory supports faith based schools.
At the same time, I've heard many people heard a lot of reasons why not to vote for the Liberals from the Conservatives and the NDP, and not why to vote for their party instead. Too much focus was on McGuinty lying and faith-based schools, and not enough people were hearing about what the Conservatives and the NDP were all about.
Well, I think Tory shot his party in the foot with all his focus on faith-based schooling, really. I'm not entirely sure what he saw in it that people actually cared about.
I don't think it was so much as him focusing on it, as everyone else focusing on it.
I don't think there was a single time a liberal spoke when they did not mention that Tory supports faith based schools.
At the same time, I've heard many people heard a lot of reasons why not to vote for the Liberals from the Conservatives and the NDP, and not why to vote for their party instead. Too much focus was on McGuinty lying and faith-based schools, and not enough people were hearing about what the Conservatives and the NDP were all about.
Well, I think Tory shot his party in the foot with all his focus on faith-based schooling, really. I'm not entirely sure what he saw in it that people actually cared about.
I don't think it was so much as him focusing on it, as everyone else focusing on it.
I don't think there was a single time a liberal spoke when they did not mention that Tory supports faith based schools.
At the same time, I've heard many people heard a lot of reasons why not to vote for the Liberals from the Conservatives and the NDP, and not why to vote for their party instead. Too much focus was on McGuinty lying and faith-based schools, and not enough people were hearing about what the Conservatives and the NDP were all about.
Judging from the conservative ads, what they are all about is magic powers. How else where they planning on dropping the health tax while putting a shit load of money into health care... where was THAT supposed to come from?
Also, I learned that McGuinty throws autistic children down wells for fun.
Proto on
and her knees up on the glove compartment
took out her barrettes and her hair spilled out like rootbeer
Well, I think Tory shot his party in the foot with all his focus on faith-based schooling, really. I'm not entirely sure what he saw in it that people actually cared about.
I don't think it was so much as him focusing on it, as everyone else focusing on it.
I don't think there was a single time a liberal spoke when they did not mention that Tory supports faith based schools.
At the same time, I've heard many people heard a lot of reasons why not to vote for the Liberals from the Conservatives and the NDP, and not why to vote for their party instead. Too much focus was on McGuinty lying and faith-based schools, and not enough people were hearing about what the Conservatives and the NDP were all about.
Judging from the conservative ads, what they are all about is magic powers. How else where they planning on dropping the health tax while putting a shit load of money into health care... where was THAT supposed to come from?
Also, I learned that McGuinty throws autistic children down wells for fun.
Well, I think Tory shot his party in the foot with all his focus on faith-based schooling, really. I'm not entirely sure what he saw in it that people actually cared about.
I don't think it was so much as him focusing on it, as everyone else focusing on it.
I don't think there was a single time a liberal spoke when they did not mention that Tory supports faith based schools.
At the same time, I've heard many people heard a lot of reasons why not to vote for the Liberals from the Conservatives and the NDP, and not why to vote for their party instead. Too much focus was on McGuinty lying and faith-based schools, and not enough people were hearing about what the Conservatives and the NDP were all about.
Judging from the conservative ads, what they are all about is magic powers. How else where they planning on dropping the health tax while putting a shit load of money into health care... where was THAT supposed to come from?
Also, I learned that McGuinty throws autistic children down wells for fun.
That's what got my vote. Fucking autistic pricks have gotten a free "not thrown down a well" ride for too long.
Well I was just talking with a friend of mine last night. He's conservative, and religious, and involved in the community, and basically your Conservative poster boy... and he said he's voting Conservative despite John Tory. So I'm not exactly surprised to learn he lost.
I'm happy to learn the MMP was defeated though.
What really bugs me is how little the MMP referendum was advertised, and how little Ontarians cared about it. There was a debate about it on campus, and most seats were empty, and I asked half the questions to the panelists and I'm not even an Ontario voter. That's how bad it was.
In the lead-up to the election, I saw commericals for the referendum (specifically about educating yourself about the question) everytime I was watching Ontario-area television. Which I was doing a lot of, so I could get my television shows earlier. I saw lots of advertising for the MPP referendum.
Of course, that doesn't mean people actually knew about it or cared about it, but I'm not really sure that it was hardly advertised.
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
In the lead-up to the election, I saw commericals for the referendum (specifically about educating yourself about the question) everytime I was watching Ontario-area television. Which I was doing a lot of, so I could get my television shows earlier. I saw lots of advertising for the MPP referendum.
Of course, that doesn't mean people actually knew about it or cared about it, but I'm not really sure that it was hardly advertised.
Christ, in the last week-two weeks everytime I turned on the news, they devoted at least 15 minutes to MPP on CBC. So I'm sure unless people live under a rock and don't watch the news, that they at least got the message out there. Whether the general populace understood any of it, I'm not sure, but at least they got the word out.
In the lead-up to the election, I saw commericals for the referendum (specifically about educating yourself about the question) everytime I was watching Ontario-area television. Which I was doing a lot of, so I could get my television shows earlier. I saw lots of advertising for the MPP referendum.
Of course, that doesn't mean people actually knew about it or cared about it, but I'm not really sure that it was hardly advertised.
Christ, in the last week-two weeks everytime I turned on the news, they devoted at least 15 minutes to MPP on CBC. So I'm sure unless people live under a rock and don't watch the news, that they at least got the message out there. Whether the general populace understood any of it, I'm not sure, but at least they got the word out.
yeah... I don't think many people watch CBC.
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
In the lead-up to the election, I saw commericals for the referendum (specifically about educating yourself about the question) everytime I was watching Ontario-area television. Which I was doing a lot of, so I could get my television shows earlier. I saw lots of advertising for the MPP referendum.
Of course, that doesn't mean people actually knew about it or cared about it, but I'm not really sure that it was hardly advertised.
Christ, in the last week-two weeks everytime I turned on the news, they devoted at least 15 minutes to MPP on CBC. So I'm sure unless people live under a rock and don't watch the news, that they at least got the message out there. Whether the general populace understood any of it, I'm not sure, but at least they got the word out.
That was a good time. Don't ask me why but my the newspaper I mainly read is the Ottawa Citizen which is your usual canwest-global conservative rag. Through out the entire election they had a constant hard-on for the Tories and now it's going to be nice to see all the whining due to the utter dominance that was the liberal win.
That was a good time. Don't ask me why but my the newspaper I mainly read is the Ottawa Citizen which is your usual canwest-global conservative rag. Through out the entire election they had a constant hard-on for the Tories and now it's going to be nice to see all the whining due to the utter dominance that was the liberal win.
Dude, we live in a town where the Citizen's competition is the Ottawa SUN.
Compared to the Sun, the Citizen is a bastion of objectivity and reason.
But that's off topic.
All said, I'm happy with the results of this election. I think I've finally grown immune to mud-slinging campaigns and have learned to accept that lying is just part and parcel of the electoral process. McGuity is STILL having to pick up the pieces left over from Bob Rae's administration and I think he's done a fine job of it thus far, despite the uphill climb. I think he deserved another term.
I think that the internet has been for years on the path to creating what is essentially an electronic Necronomicon: A collection of blasphemous unrealities so perverse that to even glimpse at its contents, if but for a moment, is to irrevocably forfeit a portion of your sanity.
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If you ever need to talk to someone, feel free to message me. Yes, that includes you.
... Ottawa Citizen which is your usual canwest-global conservative rag.
Aren't the Aspers huge Liberal supporters?
The Winnipeg Aspers?
Canwest is almost certainly not historically supportive of the Conservative party. Israel Asper (the father of Leonard, the current President of Canwest) was actually leader of the Liberal Party of Manitoba from 1970-1975.
That was a good time. Don't ask me why but my the newspaper I mainly read is the Ottawa Citizen which is your usual canwest-global conservative rag. Through out the entire election they had a constant hard-on for the Tories and now it's going to be nice to see all the whining due to the utter dominance that was the liberal win.
Dude, we live in a town where the Citizen's competition is the Ottawa SUN.
Compared to the Sun, the Citizen is a bastion of objectivity and reason.
But that's off topic.
All said, I'm happy with the results of this election. I think I've finally grown immune to mud-slinging campaigns and have learned to accept that lying is just part and parcel of the electoral process. McGuity is STILL having to pick up the pieces left over from Bob Rae's administration and I think he's done a fine job of it thus far, despite the uphill climb. I think he deserved another term.
That was a good time. Don't ask me why but my the newspaper I mainly read is the Ottawa Citizen which is your usual canwest-global conservative rag. Through out the entire election they had a constant hard-on for the Tories and now it's going to be nice to see all the whining due to the utter dominance that was the liberal win.
Dude, we live in a town where the Citizen's competition is the Ottawa SUN.
Compared to the Sun, the Citizen is a bastion of objectivity and reason.
But that's off topic.
All said, I'm happy with the results of this election. I think I've finally grown immune to mud-slinging campaigns and have learned to accept that lying is just part and parcel of the electoral process. McGuity is STILL having to pick up the pieces left over from Bob Rae's administration and I think he's done a fine job of it thus far, despite the uphill climb. I think he deserved another term.
You mean Mike Harris, right?
Mike Harris had his share of problems but never really did anything to counter the damage Bob Rae did to the education system, which has been McGuinty's main area of concern for a while now.
So what do we get? Lowest voter turn-out EVER, Liberals stay in power and MMP fails. I did hear that if it got at least a significant percentage then the referendum would be done over, but since I haven't heard anything at all about how it fared I don't know if it even passed that mark.
Out of everyone I know, including me, 4 people voted and 2 of them had no godamn clue. While driving home Tuesday night I reminded my boss that it was vote time tomorrow and he said "I guess I better go check out what the different parties are about." I asked a few of the people at polling station how the MMP thing was going and they told me that most people had no idea what it was when they were given the second voting form.
So what do we get? Lowest voter turn-out EVER, Liberals stay in power and MMP fails. I did hear that if it got at least a significant percentage then the referendum would be done over, but since I haven't heard anything at all about how it fared I don't know if it even passed that mark.
Out of everyone I know, including me, 4 people voted and 2 of them had no godamn clue. While driving home Tuesday night I reminded my boss that it was vote time tomorrow and he said "I guess I better go check out what the different parties are about." I asked a few of the people at polling station how the MMP thing was going and they told me that most people had no idea what it was when they were given the second voting form.
SIGH.
Aside from the two same parties over and over agian with no chance of any new parties gaining power, I think its people saying either of the two will win. Frankly to me its boring cause the person who ran for the PC party failed three times. It was obvious who would win.
The overall winner may have been obvious from very early on, but with MMP there was the chance that small changes could be started. Cracks put into the huge wall of solid inevitability that is the current electoral system that could eventually open up a new era of people making votes that actually count for something. At least it would feel a little less like I'm just wasting half an hour and a piece of paper to make a vote that simply doesn't matter AT ALL.
I think one of the reasons MMP failed is because they had the referendum on the same day as the provincial election. I mean, the Liberals made really no effort to actually educate the public about it and then said, "Oh btw, while you're at the polling station, why don't you vote on the referendum" and then when people see two options, being: "existing system" and "crazy thing you have no idea what this is like whoa" then what do you think they're going to vote for?
If they had it on a separate day then maybe people would actually learn a bit before voting on it and would actually make an informed decision.
Say what you will, but everyone I've talked to about it has had the same sort of impression. They don't like the sound of a system where an MPP is not directly beholden to voters.
Alot of people just didn't like the sound of the system.
Say what you will, but everyone I've talked to about it has had the same sort of impression. They don't like the sound of a system where an MPP is not directly beholden to voters.
Alot of people just didn't like the sound of the system.
Agreed.
At first, my attitude was a lot like Page's. ANY change is better than what we have. But after I educated myself and realized the added potential for corruption and complication that a new system would have, I decided "better the evil we know than the one we don't".
If more was said on the actual benefits of MMP over FPtP, I might have been convinced otherwise, but, as it stood, I don't recall anyone actually ASKING for this referrendum, or HOW exactly it was better than what he already had besides "but it gives you more choice"!
This of course also helped it fall, I for one did not like the sound of the new system, but reports from the polling stations showed that a lot of people had no idea what was going on. It would've stood a much better chance if the people who were going out to vote knew what it was.
Why do all of you guys not support MMP? This is what perplexes the shit out of me. In B.C., we had a referendum on STV, and the only reason it failed was that it didn't get 60% in all ridings (the two that didn't get 60% did get over 50%, though) - not everyone agreed with it, but it is far far superior to FPtP. Not only that, if it doesn't work, you could always change it back, nothing is stopping you.
We already had that conversation a few pages back. In summary:
1) It reduces the number of riding MPPs, thus reducing the representation of citizens in the Legislature.
2) It adds in list MPPs that do not represent ridings but instead represent their parties, thus further diluting the amount of power riding MPPs (and the people) have over the government.
3) There are no guidelines on how parties choose list MPPs, thus opening the door to list spots being awarded as party favours.
4) The only control on the lists is that they have to be public before the election, which is only a control based on the assumption that people will care enough scrutinize the lists, which is a ridiculous assumption at best.
5) Parties that get 3% province-wide get MPPs from their lists elected. It's a ridiculously low threshold, and is computed regardless of whether the party actually ran candidates province-wide or if it only had one or two candidates that were defeated (in which case it shouldn't even be called a "party").
And although not a flaw of MMP in particular, but of the referendum in general:
6) People simply were not informed about this referendum. Most people were not informed about the issues, the debates, and in fact did not even know that there was a referendum going on.
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That's not too surprising, he was facing a strong incumbent. Many people wondered what he was thinking going for that riding.
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I don't think it was so much as him focusing on it, as everyone else focusing on it.
I don't think there was a single time a liberal spoke when they did not mention that Tory supports faith based schools.
At the same time, I've heard many people heard a lot of reasons why not to vote for the Liberals from the Conservatives and the NDP, and not why to vote for their party instead. Too much focus was on McGuinty lying and faith-based schools, and not enough people were hearing about what the Conservatives and the NDP were all about.
Same old, same old.
Just like the Bush-Kerry election.
Judging from the conservative ads, what they are all about is magic powers. How else where they planning on dropping the health tax while putting a shit load of money into health care... where was THAT supposed to come from?
Also, I learned that McGuinty throws autistic children down wells for fun.
took out her barrettes and her hair spilled out like rootbeer
Don't forget he's a filthy liar who lies.
That's what got my vote. Fucking autistic pricks have gotten a free "not thrown down a well" ride for too long.
I'm happy to learn the MMP was defeated though.
What really bugs me is how little the MMP referendum was advertised, and how little Ontarians cared about it. There was a debate about it on campus, and most seats were empty, and I asked half the questions to the panelists and I'm not even an Ontario voter. That's how bad it was.
Of course, that doesn't mean people actually knew about it or cared about it, but I'm not really sure that it was hardly advertised.
Christ, in the last week-two weeks everytime I turned on the news, they devoted at least 15 minutes to MPP on CBC. So I'm sure unless people live under a rock and don't watch the news, that they at least got the message out there. Whether the general populace understood any of it, I'm not sure, but at least they got the word out.
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yeah... I don't think many people watch CBC.
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I came rather close to smacking her.
Dude, we live in a town where the Citizen's competition is the Ottawa SUN.
Compared to the Sun, the Citizen is a bastion of objectivity and reason.
But that's off topic.
All said, I'm happy with the results of this election. I think I've finally grown immune to mud-slinging campaigns and have learned to accept that lying is just part and parcel of the electoral process. McGuity is STILL having to pick up the pieces left over from Bob Rae's administration and I think he's done a fine job of it thus far, despite the uphill climb. I think he deserved another term.
Aren't the Aspers huge Liberal supporters?
If you ever need to talk to someone, feel free to message me. Yes, that includes you.
The Winnipeg Aspers?
Canwest is almost certainly not historically supportive of the Conservative party. Israel Asper (the father of Leonard, the current President of Canwest) was actually leader of the Liberal Party of Manitoba from 1970-1975.
You mean Mike Harris, right?
Yes. I was unaware that were others.
Mike Harris had his share of problems but never really did anything to counter the damage Bob Rae did to the education system, which has been McGuinty's main area of concern for a while now.
What, the election? Happened Wednesday.
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Out of everyone I know, including me, 4 people voted and 2 of them had no godamn clue. While driving home Tuesday night I reminded my boss that it was vote time tomorrow and he said "I guess I better go check out what the different parties are about." I asked a few of the people at polling station how the MMP thing was going and they told me that most people had no idea what it was when they were given the second voting form.
SIGH.
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Aside from the two same parties over and over agian with no chance of any new parties gaining power, I think its people saying either of the two will win. Frankly to me its boring cause the person who ran for the PC party failed three times. It was obvious who would win.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
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If they had it on a separate day then maybe people would actually learn a bit before voting on it and would actually make an informed decision.
Say what you will, but everyone I've talked to about it has had the same sort of impression. They don't like the sound of a system where an MPP is not directly beholden to voters.
Alot of people just didn't like the sound of the system.
Agreed.
At first, my attitude was a lot like Page's. ANY change is better than what we have. But after I educated myself and realized the added potential for corruption and complication that a new system would have, I decided "better the evil we know than the one we don't".
If more was said on the actual benefits of MMP over FPtP, I might have been convinced otherwise, but, as it stood, I don't recall anyone actually ASKING for this referrendum, or HOW exactly it was better than what he already had besides "but it gives you more choice"!
This of course also helped it fall, I for one did not like the sound of the new system, but reports from the polling stations showed that a lot of people had no idea what was going on. It would've stood a much better chance if the people who were going out to vote knew what it was.
1) It reduces the number of riding MPPs, thus reducing the representation of citizens in the Legislature.
2) It adds in list MPPs that do not represent ridings but instead represent their parties, thus further diluting the amount of power riding MPPs (and the people) have over the government.
3) There are no guidelines on how parties choose list MPPs, thus opening the door to list spots being awarded as party favours.
4) The only control on the lists is that they have to be public before the election, which is only a control based on the assumption that people will care enough scrutinize the lists, which is a ridiculous assumption at best.
5) Parties that get 3% province-wide get MPPs from their lists elected. It's a ridiculously low threshold, and is computed regardless of whether the party actually ran candidates province-wide or if it only had one or two candidates that were defeated (in which case it shouldn't even be called a "party").
And although not a flaw of MMP in particular, but of the referendum in general:
6) People simply were not informed about this referendum. Most people were not informed about the issues, the debates, and in fact did not even know that there was a referendum going on.