Wait a minute, the church in FFT looks to be completely evil and bent on resurrecting an ancient demon. Doesn't seem pro-Christian or pro-Religion to me. Unless that was your point.
In my experience, Japanese games/anime don't give a damn whether something is pro-Christian or anti-religious or whatever. They care if it looks cool. If it looks cool to turn Sephiroth into an angel, then he'll be turned into an angel. Whatever subtext someone wants to read into it is their own problem.
Wait a minute, the church in FFT looks to be completely evil and bent on resurrecting an ancient demon. Doesn't seem pro-Christian or pro-Religion to me. Unless that was your point.
In my experience, Japanese games/anime don't give a damn whether something is pro-Christian or anti-religious or whatever. They care if it looks cool. If it looks cool to turn Sephiroth into an angel, then he'll be turned into an angel. Whatever subtext someone wants to read into it is their own problem.
An interesting breakdown of the inconsistancies and outright ludicrous nature of many things found in the first book. It's LONG, but an entertaining read.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
An interesting breakdown of the inconsistancies and outright ludicrous nature of many things found in the first book. It's LONG, but an entertaining read.
Left Behind series is to Christianity what Michael Crichton is to science, more news at 11.
Frankly, I don't see how Left Behind is any stupider than the Narnia books. Specifically, the last one, where
the children all get to go to heaven while Narnia is destroyed and all the unbelievers there killed or thrown into oblivion ... all the Pevensie children, that is, except for Susan, who likes makeup and modern thinking too much to be saved by Aslan.
I don't like church, it just seemed kind of contradictory to play a game where you kill people at God's house. Apparently it is common to have those kind of get-togethers at churches.
I don't like church, it just seemed kind of contradictory to play a game where you kill people at God's house. Apparently it is common to have those kind of get-togethers at churches.
/edit: now Bioshock, there's a game that Christians should get behind. Just goes to show you that multiplayer always trumps ideology.
I haven't played Bioshock either, but wouldn't that simply force Christians to address the tenets of Objectivism? Though at least the game seems highly critical of Objectivism.
You know, it might be interesting to explore how God and religion work in videogames. Because the mechanics of videogame deities are often very different from the mechanics of real-life deities.
For starters, there tends to be evidence of deities in videogames. Also, in most role-playing games, there is no such thing as a god who you can't either enslave for summoning purposes or kill at the end of the game.
Have there been any notable games with a pro-Christian or even pro-Religious stance? (Excluding games are explicitly made to be Christian games like Left Behind)
Indirectly, Bioshock.
Here before you lies a world totally devoid of altruisim and true love, ruled only by self-interest, greed, and arrogant transhumanisim.
You want to live there?
As for HALO, my brother-in-law who runs the sound at church has had a few LAN parties with people from church. There's no gibbing, it's not obnoxiously gory or anything, and noone dies when their avatar goes down.
Paintball is more violent than HALO.
I'm in the army and I can tell you with 100% certainty that firing a real weapon accuratly and aiming well in HALO or *any* other shooter are two totally different things. Being good at one does not make you good at the other and can actually make you worse at the other.
I was unaware that anyone actually paid any attention to the story in Halo. The Church is one hundred percent right on this one: whatever "religious overtones" the game is supposed to have are poorly presented, and largely overlooked by its players; and the game's violent content is just not a big deal. This is a perfectly wholesome social event that appeals to teenage boys. No bullshit or weird fanaticism, just a bunch of kids having fun at church, playing a video game together. The title of the article is particularly idiotic. The Times makes itself look retarded in this piece.
Put better than I could have.
ADDENDUM: The Times has been making itself look retarded for a few years now. Wonder how long they can live off of their reputation....
I was unaware that anyone actually paid any attention to the story in Halo. The Church is one hundred percent right on this one: whatever "religious overtones" the game is supposed to have are poorly presented, and largely overlooked by its players.
Uh, the anti-religious overtones are clearly present in two (and to a lesser extent three), I'm pretty curious as to how it could be overlooked by players unless they were completely ignoring the story?
Uh, the anti-religious overtones are clearly present in two (and to a lesser extent three), I'm pretty curious as to how it could be overlooked by players unless they were completely ignoring the story?
To be perfectly frank, religion and "completely ignoring the story" kind of go hand in hand.
It's a reason to get butts in the seat, and that is the be all and end all of concerns.
I was unaware that anyone actually paid any attention to the story in Halo. The Church is one hundred percent right on this one: whatever "religious overtones" the game is supposed to have are poorly presented, and largely overlooked by its players.
Uh, the anti-religious overtones are clearly present in two (and to a lesser extent three), I'm pretty curious as to how it could be overlooked by players unless they were completely ignoring the story?
Halo's story is not in the multiplayer.
The kids are playing primarily multiplayer.
Therefore, the story is ignored.
I was unaware that anyone actually paid any attention to the story in Halo. The Church is one hundred percent right on this one: whatever "religious overtones" the game is supposed to have are poorly presented, and largely overlooked by its players.
Uh, the anti-religious overtones are clearly present in two (and to a lesser extent three), I'm pretty curious as to how it could be overlooked by players unless they were completely ignoring the story?
Halo's story is not in the multiplayer.
The kids are playing primarily multiplayer.
Therefore, the story is ignored.
Whats the guy who just said that part of the story is poorly presented 's excuse?
FIY Alot of people do care about the story. They didn't take a vote but I would say about half the people in the Halo Tread(or the one where the argued about weather it was a good story) agree its a good story where as the other think think its bad or not there.
FFS, there's no cognitive dissonance in going to church and playing a game that has certain negative religious overtones, any more so than appreciating 1984 and still supporting conservative, restrictive government policies. One is an extreme, the other is not.
I really don't see what the problem is here. It's a fucking video game. The bible, to the best of my knowledge, doesn't have a lot to say on the subject. I'm sure there's some fucked-up theology somewhere that sex video games are gateways to the abyss, but unless a church buys into that, I fail completely to see what the problem is here.
I was unaware that anyone actually paid any attention to the story in Halo. The Church is one hundred percent right on this one: whatever "religious overtones" the game is supposed to have are poorly presented, and largely overlooked by its players.
Uh, the anti-religious overtones are clearly present in two (and to a lesser extent three), I'm pretty curious as to how it could be overlooked by players unless they were completely ignoring the story?
They could be like me. It doesn't bother me in the least. I consider myself religious, but can accept the fact that there are fanatical and dangerous elements present in most, if not all religions. I am not so sensitive that any negative reference to a religion, or even my religion, is going to bother me. I hang out on some Christian forums and I have yet to see anybody complain that Halo is anti-anything and I can guarantee that there are some easily offended people on those boards.
I think it's funny how when religious groups react to things like video games, people here go through the normal "lol fundies" discussions/circle-jerks, which is fine, because a lot of the time it's the fundies making the news.
However, when religious groups DON'T react to things like video games, or react in the un-expected way, it's "not very religious".
Just out of curiosity, what is the the appropriate response of religious people playing video games?
I think it's worth mentioning that not all churches are crazy like the ones you hear on the news and stuff. I grew up going to church, and though I'm not a Christian anymore, there were a lot of wholesome values instilled there. I used to skate with them every once and a while, we'd go on outings to corn mazes at halloween, and do work in soup kitchens. And yeah, every once and a while, we'd just hang out at the church, and have a movie night. Someone would bring a projector, and we'd watch different films, and play Smash Bros. afterwards. It was a ton of fun, and I met some of my best friends there.
But it was a pretty nice church, they had a strong focus on creating a better community and stuck to things like Helping your brother, setting an example, things like that. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there's lots of different kinds of churches under different kinds of management. There's no reason to get bent out of shape about it because their church operates differently than one may expect.
Regarding the article, though...The churches they spoke with sound manipulative. In the events I attended, their focus was more to bond or offer services than to witness. Using video games as a witnessing tool seems kind of...I don't know. Kind of sly.
Beck on
Lucas's Franklin Badge reflected the lightning back!
I was unaware that anyone actually paid any attention to the story in Halo. The Church is one hundred percent right on this one: whatever "religious overtones" the game is supposed to have are poorly presented, and largely overlooked by its players.
Uh, the anti-religious overtones are clearly present in two (and to a lesser extent three), I'm pretty curious as to how it could be overlooked by players unless they were completely ignoring the story?
Clearly present, if you actually pay attention to the excruciatingly boring, dialogue-laden cutscenes and are able to follow the incomprehensible plot, about a coalition of aliens that want to kill all humans so they can activate some giant ring in space, to kill a bunch of space travelling zombies, or something? I don't know, apparently none of it really makes sense unless you read the series of paperback novels, available wherever brain-melting pulp fiction books are sold.
Again, whatever anti-religious overtones it has are poorly presented. I usually try to absorb as much of a game's story as possible, and I seriously had no fucking idea what Halo is about, what the significance of my objectives were from one level to the next, who the Covenant are and why they are trying to kill me, until I read some handy FAQ/timeline on a message board that some guy in his mother's basement had spent days compiling. And this is all ignoring the fact that the story and its "religious overtones" are completely inconsequential to the multiplayer portion of the game, which is what these kids were playing.
There is nothing un-Christian about playing Halo 3 with your friends at church. Period.
I was unaware that anyone actually paid any attention to the story in Halo. The Church is one hundred percent right on this one: whatever "religious overtones" the game is supposed to have are poorly presented, and largely overlooked by its players.
Uh, the anti-religious overtones are clearly present in two (and to a lesser extent three), I'm pretty curious as to how it could be overlooked by players unless they were completely ignoring the story?
Clearly present, if you actually pay attention to the excruciatingly boring, dialogue-laden cutscenes and are able to follow the incomprehensible plot, about a coalition of aliens that want to kill all humans so they can activate some giant ring in space, to kill a bunch of space travelling zombies, or something? I don't know, apparently none of it really makes sense unless you read the series of paperback novels, available wherever brain-melting pulp fiction books are sold.
Again, whatever anti-religious overtones it has are poorly presented. I usually try to absorb as much of a game's story as possible, and I seriously had no fucking idea what Halo is about, what the significance of my objectives were from one level to the next, who the Covenant are and why they are trying to kill me, until I read some handy FAQ/timeline on a message board that some guy in his mother's basement had spent days compiling. And this is all ignoring the fact that the story and its "religious overtones" are completely inconsequential to the multiplayer portion of the game, which is what these kids were playing.
There is nothing un-Christian about playing Halo 3 with your friends at church. Period.
Maybe stories just aren't for you, but just because you didn't understand it didn't mean it was poorly presented. It just meant you were unabe to follow it. As stories go it was actually one of the better present more interesting ones from the main genres.
As for your second point is it? If you buy something that has a view against your beliefs and use it to attract others to the church it does strike me as ever so slightly hypocritical.
I think it's funny how when religious groups react to things like video games, people here go through the normal "lol fundies" discussions/circle-jerks, which is fine, because a lot of the time it's the fundies making the news.
However, when religious groups DON'T react to things like video games, or react in the un-expected way, it's "not very religious".
Just out of curiosity, what is the the appropriate response of religious people playing video games?
I let religious groups define themselves. It's not my place* to tell someone what is or is not "properly Christian" or whatever. Individual churches may have statements declaring their specific dogmas, however.
*Except for catholics, 'cause there's actual elites who determine that sort of thing, and it's relatively plain to see.
I think it's funny how when religious groups react to things like video games, people here go through the normal "lol fundies" discussions/circle-jerks, which is fine, because a lot of the time it's the fundies making the news.
However, when religious groups DON'T react to things like video games, or react in the un-expected way, it's "not very religious".
Just out of curiosity, what is the the appropriate response of religious people playing video games?
I let religious groups define themselves. It's not my place* to tell someone what is or is not "properly Christian" or whatever. Individual churches may have statements declaring their specific dogmas, however.
*Except for catholics, 'cause there's actual elites who determine that sort of thing, and it's relatively plain to see.
And this is what I would've expected for the most part. After all, people get upset when religious groups "tell them how to live their lives", I just think it's funny how it's the other way around now, and non-religious people are telling religious people how to be religious. Or specifically calling something a Christrian group does as "un-Christian".
Frankly, I don't see how Left Behind is any stupider than the Narnia books. Specifically, the last one, where
the children all get to go to heaven while Narnia is destroyed and all the unbelievers there killed or thrown into oblivion ... all the Pevensie children, that is, except for Susan, who likes makeup and modern thinking too much to be saved by Aslan.
All things considered, because Narnia is a well-written piece of fiction espousing an idea I don't entirely agree with that can be taken for the most part as an interesting young adult fantasy title., Left Behind is incredibly horribly written, and espousing a philosophy that is nothing but the last 5 minutes of the last book of Narnia, and you cannot take it as anything else because it will not let you.
Frankly, I don't see how Left Behind is any stupider than the Narnia books. Specifically, the last one, where
the children all get to go to heaven while Narnia is destroyed and all the unbelievers there killed or thrown into oblivion ... all the Pevensie children, that is, except for Susan, who likes makeup and modern thinking too much to be saved by Aslan.
All things considered, because Narnia is a well-written piece of fiction espousing an idea I don't entirely agree with that can be taken for the most part as an interesting young adult fantasy title., Left Behind is incredibly horribly written, and espousing a philosophy that is nothing but the last 5 minutes of the last book of Narnia, and you cannot take it as anything else because it will not let you.
Concerning that Narnia Spolier:
I think it was C.S. Lewis' way of showing corruption. He can't write a ho-bag or whoremonger into a kids story, but he can show how caring too much about sex can screw you up.
How many people die, ruin their lives or the lives of others, and spend large quantities of time and $$$$ on a friggin' 5-second orgasim?
No, not saying we should all be monks, but mindless hedonisim and orgasim worship is ultimatly destructive and self-defeating.
Posts
In my experience, Japanese games/anime don't give a damn whether something is pro-Christian or anti-religious or whatever. They care if it looks cool. If it looks cool to turn Sephiroth into an angel, then he'll be turned into an angel. Whatever subtext someone wants to read into it is their own problem.
http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/left_behind/index.html
An interesting breakdown of the inconsistancies and outright ludicrous nature of many things found in the first book. It's LONG, but an entertaining read.
Left Behind series is to Christianity what Michael Crichton is to science, more news at 11.
Because you don't like Halo, or you don't like church?
Indirectly, Bioshock.
Here before you lies a world totally devoid of altruisim and true love, ruled only by self-interest, greed, and arrogant transhumanisim.
You want to live there?
As for HALO, my brother-in-law who runs the sound at church has had a few LAN parties with people from church. There's no gibbing, it's not obnoxiously gory or anything, and noone dies when their avatar goes down.
Paintball is more violent than HALO.
I'm in the army and I can tell you with 100% certainty that firing a real weapon accuratly and aiming well in HALO or *any* other shooter are two totally different things. Being good at one does not make you good at the other and can actually make you worse at the other.
Margaret Thatcher
Put better than I could have.
ADDENDUM: The Times has been making itself look retarded for a few years now. Wonder how long they can live off of their reputation....
Margaret Thatcher
Uh, the anti-religious overtones are clearly present in two (and to a lesser extent three), I'm pretty curious as to how it could be overlooked by players unless they were completely ignoring the story?
To be perfectly frank, religion and "completely ignoring the story" kind of go hand in hand.
It's a reason to get butts in the seat, and that is the be all and end all of concerns.
Halo's story is not in the multiplayer.
The kids are playing primarily multiplayer.
Therefore, the story is ignored.
FIY Alot of people do care about the story. They didn't take a vote but I would say about half the people in the Halo Tread(or the one where the argued about weather it was a good story) agree its a good story where as the other think think its bad or not there.
They could be like me. It doesn't bother me in the least. I consider myself religious, but can accept the fact that there are fanatical and dangerous elements present in most, if not all religions. I am not so sensitive that any negative reference to a religion, or even my religion, is going to bother me. I hang out on some Christian forums and I have yet to see anybody complain that Halo is anti-anything and I can guarantee that there are some easily offended people on those boards.
However, when religious groups DON'T react to things like video games, or react in the un-expected way, it's "not very religious".
Just out of curiosity, what is the the appropriate response of religious people playing video games?
Which is?
To think of it as entertainment unless it contains antireligious stuff.
But it was a pretty nice church, they had a strong focus on creating a better community and stuck to things like Helping your brother, setting an example, things like that. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there's lots of different kinds of churches under different kinds of management. There's no reason to get bent out of shape about it because their church operates differently than one may expect.
Regarding the article, though...The churches they spoke with sound manipulative. In the events I attended, their focus was more to bond or offer services than to witness. Using video games as a witnessing tool seems kind of...I don't know. Kind of sly.
Again, whatever anti-religious overtones it has are poorly presented. I usually try to absorb as much of a game's story as possible, and I seriously had no fucking idea what Halo is about, what the significance of my objectives were from one level to the next, who the Covenant are and why they are trying to kill me, until I read some handy FAQ/timeline on a message board that some guy in his mother's basement had spent days compiling. And this is all ignoring the fact that the story and its "religious overtones" are completely inconsequential to the multiplayer portion of the game, which is what these kids were playing.
There is nothing un-Christian about playing Halo 3 with your friends at church. Period.
Maybe stories just aren't for you, but just because you didn't understand it didn't mean it was poorly presented. It just meant you were unabe to follow it. As stories go it was actually one of the better present more interesting ones from the main genres.
As for your second point is it? If you buy something that has a view against your beliefs and use it to attract others to the church it does strike me as ever so slightly hypocritical.
I let religious groups define themselves. It's not my place* to tell someone what is or is not "properly Christian" or whatever. Individual churches may have statements declaring their specific dogmas, however.
*Except for catholics, 'cause there's actual elites who determine that sort of thing, and it's relatively plain to see.
And this is what I would've expected for the most part. After all, people get upset when religious groups "tell them how to live their lives", I just think it's funny how it's the other way around now, and non-religious people are telling religious people how to be religious. Or specifically calling something a Christrian group does as "un-Christian".
All things considered, because Narnia is a well-written piece of fiction espousing an idea I don't entirely agree with that can be taken for the most part as an interesting young adult fantasy title., Left Behind is incredibly horribly written, and espousing a philosophy that is nothing but the last 5 minutes of the last book of Narnia, and you cannot take it as anything else because it will not let you.
Concerning that Narnia Spolier:
How many people die, ruin their lives or the lives of others, and spend large quantities of time and $$$$ on a friggin' 5-second orgasim?
No, not saying we should all be monks, but mindless hedonisim and orgasim worship is ultimatly destructive and self-defeating.
Margaret Thatcher
For me, I'd just never want to associate with that many people who I consider to be ethically abominable.
I just inform them that I do not wish for my skin to start melting when invited.