There's a bit of a story behind this thread. Warning: Long post that will take time to get to the point ahead.
Tomorrow I'm off out to pick up some new releases. It's quite a big day in the UK for new releases, especially in the wake of Halo, Skate, FIFA and PGR4, all of which I bought. Tomorrow Eternal Sonata, Phantom Hourglass, Orange Box and Football Manager 2008 all hit stores. I want every single one of them (though if any particular one is a mistake, do tell me now.) I'm thinking jesus, that's a bit of a big hit. Even with my mate's staff discount of the top, that's still ridiculously expensive.
Still, I thought - I just bought a PSP Slim for FFTactics. And now I've done the Pandora battery trick and got my firmware ready for homebrew on the slim, I don't need the Phat PSP anymore. So I'm gonna go and trade that in, prodviding the price is fair. Then I turn to look at my 360 library. With the 360 I've perhaps been more outwardly crazy in my purchases than I have with any other console before it. This is due to a mixture of things - my websites really started making a handsome profit and I was also working weekends outside of my studies, and my Uni gave me some grants and bursaries as well that I never have to pay back.
Anyway, case in point, I own
almost 40 360 games. Some were full price, some discount for some reason; some were free press copies. So I'm looking at them today and thinking I should get rid of some of these too, there's lots I will never play again...
But I can't. Despite the fact I'm content that Stranglehold was mediocre at best and has nothing I'd ever go back to, the fact I have only 300 gamerscore in it taunts me and being a completionist and a perfectionist I totally want to go back and get more. But at the same time I also know that I probably won't ever play it again to get the points, even if I find time to play it. Same for Overlord. And Bioshock (yes, I know...
away) Even Sonic the Hedgehog sits happily on my shelf just in case one day I manage to play it for long enough to get an achievement before the game makes me vomit.
tldr; So essentially the fact that I've performed so abysmally in terms of achievements is stopping me reselling these games, because I know I should play them more.
In some respects this is a damn fine thing. Achievements are encouraging me to play my games more and to their fullest. In other respects all I can think is fuck this score system. Other games aren't an option for me to trade in - stuff like Saints Row and the Samurari Warriors titles are press copies with the giant yellow strip saying don't resell on pain of death on them. In games like Viva Pinata or Oblivion I have all 1000 or 1250 points, but I wouldn't ever trade the game in because I love it too much; but there I'm getting off point.
tldr #2
Achievements have definitely changed the way I play by a hell of a lot. I think I certainly play more often because of it, and I often strive to do things outside of the linear story path of a game like Blue Dragon or Overlord in order to pick up points. While the score means nothing it's nice to have a measure of how you're doing on a wider scale.
This little trade in debacle helped me realise though that they've become important to a scary degree; to the point where what games I keep and get rid of is directly effected by the points. There was that news story a few days ago that games that don't hide their achievements sell better than games that do and in a way I can see why.
Basically I'm just looking to get a little PA-Discuss-on going. What are your guys' experience with the points? Has it changed how you game? Are they good or bad? I know this has been done before but realising how I've been bitten by the bug has made me particularly curious. So, uh.. discuss.
Posts
Proof: Achievements in The Orange Box (PC) don't do anything for me. There were two that I tried to get while I was at it (crushing all Antlion grubs in Episode Two and finishing a game as every class in TF2) but I don't actually go out of my way to get them.
Why?
Because there's nothing I'm trying to get out of it. It's just some text that turns from light gray to white when I did something. Woohoo. Raising Gamerscore, or, say, Friend Vouchers in Metroid Prime 3 (in a way, those are your "Achievements") are good rewards. Being able to say "I did that" when it's not anything particularly exciting (like most achievements) is not.
Sure, I can play it on the Wii...But will my e-peen get bigger?
For me, a 1:1 completion ratio is more important than the actual number of games I own, so I don't feel the need to spend tons of money on games I might deem mediocre, at best.
I keep practically every game I buy, since I have friends with whom I often swap titles.
XBL/PSN/Steam: APZonerunner
- not too out of the way of my usual playstyle, eg, Stranglehold's 'Stay Dry/take a different path' or 'Destroy an entire T-Rex' achivements
- Fun to do, such as Bioshock's 'Irony' Achivement
- An excuse to play more of the game, such as saving 50 survivors in Dead Rising
But mostly they are just a fun way of getting randomly told 'Hey, you just caused 75 million dollars worth of damage!' in Stranglehold or just being told I'v killed my 50th guy as I ride around on rollcarts
I never specifically try to get 1000 points, but, in Dead Rising for example, they were fun distractions when I had to wait a long time, doing nothing on the third day so I thought I'd get the 'Clothes horse' and 'perfect gunner' and other similar achivements instead of hanging around doing nothing for the next (realtime) 2 hours. I usually think of zany ways to play games like most people do when they get tired of playing the same game the same way, but just want an excuse to keep playing so achivements are just fun suggestions on more ways to play said games.
I love Dead Rising but fuck it if I'm going to try the Zombie Geonicder or 'last 14 days in infinate mode' achivements just for a few measly points (yes, I'm aware you get some items in DR for doing those but I don't really care about those).
I'll usually be more focused on achivements on the second runthrough of the game, Bioshock is great for this.
As it is, by the way, I decided to get rid of Stranglehold, Shadowrun and Spiderman 3.
XBL/PSN/Steam: APZonerunner
Man, remember back when scores were a big deal? I remember when gamepro used to run high scores.
Sure you can learn history yourself just as easily, if not quicker, cheaper, and at your own pace, but nothing's like having grades stuck in your face as a motivator to get shit done.
it's cool in some instances, say, multiplayer games. i'm alright with that. (example: team fortress 2)
but having "achievements" in single player games, that you get for doing something 'out of the way', or something a bit differently - only getting headshots, etc, takes some of the fun out of playing a game your own way.
to sum: fuck achievements.
most of all, most of all
someone said true love was dead
but i'm bound to fall
bound to fall for you
oh what can i do
With some games, it's gotten me to play them a lot more than I ever would have otherwise to get some achievements, but once I have a large portion of the achievements, I tend to lose all motivation to play it anymore. Sometimes I honestly feel like the only reason I play my 360 games is for the achievements.
But I've noticed a strange thing that actually started with Xfire and then only increased in intensity with the 360. As long as I'm playing a game and the time I spend playing it isn't recorded or there are no achievements (or any left to earn), I feel like I'm wasting my time. It's really stupid, I know, but I still feel that way.
itt we hate fun optional things
If a game isn't good enough to complete it on it's own merits, then why does gamerscore matter so much?
If a developer releases a game that only has a black screen and slowly and randomly flashes a direction or a button that requires you to press it at the same time, and gives you achievements based on you simply reacting... Even if it takes 20 hours to get them all, would you still do it just to say you did it, for the sense of accomplishment?
Sonic 2007 is slightly more engrossing than the retarded situation I detailed above. But not so much that I don't think my point is lost.
If someone wants to, they can come mow my yard for me. Will take about two hours. I'll even create a website for you so you can proudly show your charitable work to everyone on the internets, a much broader audience than just 360 users.
Maybe it's an obsession similar to my rabid collection of vinyl records. But even then, I'm still a big muddled about it, since my vinyls are something tangible and can be enjoyed after I obtain them.
"I think I'll listen to this one tonight."
I wonder what would happen if a developer created an achievement that simply could not be unlocked. Would there be backlash? Complaints that someone isn't getting what they paid for? That would be really interesting. I like achievements, I think they are a novel idea and comparing my games and my progress in them to some random goon on the internet is oddly satisfying. It adds a bit more pride in accomplishing tasks in game, but I never think of them outside the context of the game world.
But I'm gonna be a realist here and stick with the philosphy that, no. Achievements will not force me to finish a bad game when I can trade it in for a much better game. That's stupid.
I myself am looking forward to Home for these 3D trophies.
Single player games are fine, because often it gives you a bonus for doing things in unique ways, and encourages multiple playthroughs. Of course, the latter part falls on its ass if it's a bad game, or if the achievement is too hard to unlock, but then again, I don't really care about ego anyway, so whatever.
But I really hate it when achievements are completely out there, and require more luck than skill to perform. It completely defeats the purpose, in my opinion. See Halo 3's Lone Wolves achievements. Furthermore, there are achievements that are just plain ridiculous, such as the majority of Guitar Hero 3's or Gears of War's 10.000 kill achievement. I think that's just missing the point; they should be fun to get, and make you feel good rather than "thank God that's done with". If I don't feel like I get any personal satisfaction out of getting one, I won't bother.
But it's still a pretty new phenomenon, so it can hopefully only get better.
I have 18,071 gamerpoints. This, in fact, makes me much better than so many other gamers, especially all of you. Well except for that bastard APZoneRunner who has more. He'll rue the day he got more gamerscore than me. I don't know what day that was, but a good rueing is in order I think.
I feel bad for people with low or - gasp! - no gamerscore. What empty lives you lead.
Even then it's suspect. Several times in Halo 3 and Shadowrun I was asked if I wanted to join a game and get achievements. Basically, "Hey, would you like to come cheat with us?"
A friend of mine bought Halo 3, and was a bit let down by it. He remarked that, "I'm just gonna get all of the achievements and then trade it in." A day later, he had 1000 points, and I know for a fact that he's not good enough at multiplayer to get half of the Lone Wolf achievements on his own, and that he simply got in a game with some others that he knows to get them.
Even using them as a form of competition is fruitless.
my gamerscore is pretty low. But I honestly dont have too much time to play games in college. Although, recently I've been trying harder.
I don't get achievements to brag to people, I don't think anyone here would actually do that. I get achievements because it gives some games a sense of completion.
Cunning way to entice more people to buy add-ons?
Originally, yes, that was completely the plan, but apparently, it got nixed, due to being too close the grey area in terms of gambling. They weren't really sure what the legality of it would be, and plus, you'd have to figure out the whole money side of things, so it just wasn't worth it.
I'M A TWITTER SHITTER
If by ten bucks you mean 50 cents, then yes.
Not that I agree with it, even then. But yeah, way to exaggerate the prices.
I'M A TWITTER SHITTER
Achievements encourage me to do things I would otherwise not do, and challenge myself a bit. It also squeezes out every ounce of replayability that the game has (unless the achievements suck, as mentioned before). The only achievements I refuse to do are ranked multiplayer achievements. I understand that this is so you can't "cheat" for the achievement, but ranked play sucks.
I'm well aware that I just killed a boss/made it to level 50/pushed a pram in front of a truck/ate 63 cheeseburgers. I don't need to have it pointed out to me.
Sounds like you guys are doing it the other way around. Playing a game to get the achievements instead of getting the achievements in the process of playing a game. I guess I just never tied them to a sense of completion. If I was inclined to 'master my file', it'd be under the provisions of the game. I don't give a flying fuck what my Xbox thinks is an achievement.
I like unlockables though. Beating the game a certain way to earn a fun extra like new costumes, weapons or vehicles. Just a little tag on my profile that says I did X Y and Z in a game doesn't so much for me personally though.
Team fortress 2 on PC has a few achievements and I glanced over them. Win 20 games, play on a team of 8 or more people from your friends list, play a complete round with every class, etc. Kind of cool but I'll probably accumulate them just by playing for a while, nothing there I'd really strive for.
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My 1000/1000 on CoD 2. Godfry fucking daniels. That was hellish. Only achievements if you were on veteran. No saving, and several times I'd just plain be at a checkpoint that was impossible for a while.
Also, the entire fucking Wermacht aimed at me and only me.
But, on the whole, achievements give me a sense of completion that I like, give me cool ideas for a fun challenge, and are a quick way to say "I really liked this game a lot."
And you can have achievements for things like "kill every grub," which isn't really something you could challenge yourself to without a walkthrough.
yes, but you also have OCD. Dammit man, if only i were obsessively driven to get the points.
Personally, i've never been one to chase high scores, unless the game is something special and i want to play it over and over again to improve myself (not many games. I can play repeatedly for enjoyment, but rarely over a number). Achievements, i don't really care for as such, in that i won't go out of my way to perform a certain action just to get the extra points. I will, however, do it if it looks fun, or is something i feel is within my grasp. And there is a certain degree of satisfaction that comes with seeing that notice pop up. Basically, while i don't exactly care for them enough to go chasing the points, i do like having them there as a measure for my completion of a game, and as a guide for things i could be doing.
And i hate ones that are Live-only.