VP is instant, Maw is delayed. VP does no damage, Maw does significant damage (555 instant, +78 per sec for four secs at level 20!). VP can affect allies and buildings, Maw can only affect enemies. VP makes targets immune, Maw does not. VP can be cancelled, Maw cannot.
There's enough differences between the two, imo. They're not the same thing.
also maw can block a path.
Maw not freezing time can be a disadvantage sometimes, letting your enemy's cooldowns refresh. Dudes come out with all their escape ready.
VP is instant, Maw is delayed. VP does no damage, Maw does significant damage (555 instant, +78 per sec for four secs at level 20!). VP can affect allies and buildings, Maw can only affect enemies. VP makes targets immune, Maw does not. VP can be cancelled, Maw cannot.
There's enough differences between the two, imo. They're not the same thing.
One of the biggest difference is that Maw wastes time on abilities while Void doesn't. There's no reason to take that away.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
It'd probably be a good idea if Maw put you into stasis like Void Prison does. It's likely a bit too good now.
Mechanically, that's exactly what it does. It makes you intangible vis a vis the game. The difference is that the internal timer keeps ticking.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
VP is instant, Maw is delayed. VP does no damage, Maw does significant damage (555 instant, +78 per sec for four secs at level 20!). VP can affect allies and buildings, Maw can only affect enemies. VP makes targets immune, Maw does not. VP can be cancelled, Maw cannot.
There's enough differences between the two, imo. They're not the same thing.
One of the biggest difference is that Maw wastes time on abilities while Void doesn't. There's no reason to take that away.
You maw a meta illidan, he wastes his ult. You void a meta illidan, he comes out swinging.
You maw an illidan who had 6 seconds before his ult, he can meta once maw is done. You void an illidan who had 6 seconds before his ult, he still has 6 seconds before the ult.
And since you can literally place void prison in front of the entrance to the enemy base and prevent them from rushing out if your team can just barely kill the core, or use void prison on your own core to prevent the enemy from destroying it, yeah they have hugely different purposes.
One of my favorite plays is using void prison on a team that has killed the boss but didn't move to the cap-point, then taking the boss and *WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP*
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I really don't mind being Void prisoned... I don't run up against too many teams that are coordinated enough to take advantage of the wombo (I'm sure they exist and kick ass with it, I just haven't seen many), and if things are going apeshit hairy it gives me a second to reassess what I need to do when it drops.
I really don't mind being Void prisoned... I don't run up against too many teams that are coordinated enough to take advantage of the wombo (I'm sure they exist and kick ass with it, I just haven't seen many), and if things are going apeshit hairy it gives me a second to reassess what I need to do when it drops.
There's many times I'd rather be mawed. Cause your stuff comes off cooldown during it.
I see tons of teams that will surround a void prism (or a web wrap) to secure a kill when chasing and when you come out of void prism, their abilities are more likely to be up then yours because of the freeze whereas with maw there's a decent chance my escape ability is ready to go now and escape the net.
VP is instant, Maw is delayed. VP does no damage, Maw does significant damage (555 instant, +78 per sec for four secs at level 20!). VP can affect allies and buildings, Maw can only affect enemies. VP makes targets immune, Maw does not. VP can be cancelled, Maw cannot.
There's enough differences between the two, imo. They're not the same thing.
One of the biggest difference is that Maw wastes time on abilities while Void doesn't. There's no reason to take that away.
You maw a meta illidan, he wastes his ult. You void a meta illidan, he comes out swinging.
You maw an illidan who had 6 seconds before his ult, he can meta once maw is done. You void an illidan who had 6 seconds before his ult, he still has 6 seconds before the ult.
And since you can literally place void prison in front of the entrance to the enemy base and prevent them from rushing out if your team can just barely kill the core, or use void prison on your own core to prevent the enemy from destroying it, yeah they have hugely different purposes.
One of my favorite plays is using void prison on a team that has killed the boss but didn't move to the cap-point, then taking the boss and *WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP*
This boils down to the fact that a good teamfight ult is always going to be better than any ult that offers nothing to a teamfight unless it's just blatantly broken.
Even if they nerf Maw, people will still take Maw unless it becomes unplayably bad because Maw still does something in a teamfight whereas Nydus does nothing except enable cute gimmicky tricks that rarely work out.
They are similar, but also very different. The similarity stops at "move that temporarily pulls players out of combat." Literally everything else is different between the two spells.
Oh, and Maw also neatly bunches everyone up after it spits them out. VP keeps everyone where they were. Another difference!
Also for people saying "why would you take VP over Maw/Maw over VP", consider that they exist on different characters with different kits. Zeratul is a high burst, highly mobile Melee Assassin. Zagara is a sustained damage, high push/lane bully Specialist that can also provide vision via her trait.
They're both very good right now, as well.
I don't think it's a matter of "well x is better than y!" as much as it is two different Heroes having similar-yet-different Ults. They do pretty much the same thing in the end, but work differently. It's like comparing Zeratul's Blink to Valla's Vault or Falstad's Barrel Roll. All escape abilities, but they all function differently.
So Zagara's free this week, and whereas before I couldn't play her for whatever reason, now I more or less can. Please tell me what I need to know about creep, for example:
--how long does it last
--can it be destroyed
--is there a limited amount of it
--is it mostly used to provide vision or plopped in lane for the benefits or both
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
So Zagara's free this week, and whereas before I couldn't play her for whatever reason, now I more or less can. Please tell me what I need to know about creep, for example:
--how long does it last
--can it be destroyed
--is there a limited amount of it
--is it mostly used to provide vision or plopped in lane for the benefits or both
--240 seconds
--Yes, they can be revealed and killed just like stealth heroes
--No
--Both. ABC (always be creepin')
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Also correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I THINK you can still VP Unstoppable targets, but not Maw?
Like I think Maw will just shove them aside, but VP will absolutely work? Can anyone confirm?
I already said it earlier, Maw works mechanically identical to void prison in how it tags someone. They aren't stunned, they are uninteractable. Intangible. Void Prison just has an added mechanic where it freezes all timers as well.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
So Zagara's free this week, and whereas before I couldn't play her for whatever reason, now I more or less can. Please tell me what I need to know about creep, for example:
--how long does it last
--can it be destroyed
--is there a limited amount of it
--is it mostly used to provide vision or plopped in lane for the benefits or both
--240 seconds
--Yes, they can be revealed and killed just like stealth heroes
--No
--Both. ABC (always be creepin')
Just to add:
--is there a limited amount of it
Only by your cooldown/mana
--is it mostly used to provide vision or plopped in lane for the benefits or both
Both. One thing to note is that the tumor is the only thing that provides vision, not the creep spread itself
Kaeyoh from Tempostorm gives a good primer on creep: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ra7Zp3WHcM
I agree with most of what he says. Eventually you'd figure out ideal spots to place creep.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
My favorite moment of solo queue abathur was having a guy threaten to report me for 'not leaving the base'
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
technically what makes it different from void prison is that it does a fuckton of aoe damage
uh...maw does like... a "slap in the face" amount of damage?
Edit: 555 +78 dps seems okay-ish, but the damage isn't what makes maw that good
Once you get the timing down add the damage offthe banelings you 100% should be able to hit the whole bunch with right as they come out
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Totally loving Zeratul now. What can I say? Gankin' makes me feel good! Heh, but seriously I really enjoy moving around the battlefield, lending a hand where it's needed.
I'm not convinced by wormhole. Everyone says it's great but I'm not feeling it. I find that in order to get my blink into a position where I'd want to be to engage I need to first position myself in a place that I wouldn't want to escape to. For example in a lane I might find myself above or below to get a good blink in, and then if I wormhole back to there I have a lot of travel to get out of range. Either that or the combat has simply moved into the position I blink from and it's no longer a good escape.
I can see it being good against fleeing enemies, but that's a reasonably limited usage and most of the time I just secure the kill and walk away without a need to teleport. Oh and then there's the time I was stunned and desperate to escape so I pounded on E only to blink away and then wormhole back into the enemy. I also haven't felt a great need to blink into combat. I general try to mount up whenever possible and I'm often looking for my opportunity and positioning for a little while before I jump in and attack, so the blink in isn't needed.
I think I'm going to try assassin's blade next game and see how it is.
So I tried the game for the first time today. I'm not sure when or how I unlocked the Demon Hunter?
Welcome, @Arthil ! Join heroes of the wang in game and you can group up with us and learn the game faster.
By Demon Hunter do you mean the character Valla, or one of her skins? For all the characters in the game there are two ways you can aquire them. First you can pay for them in game currency of gold, which you earn mostly by leveling characters and doing daily challenges (play a warrior 3 times, win 3 times, etc). You also get a little gold after every match but that's not where the real money comes from. You can also simply pay cash. There are different cash and gold prices for heroes and it's generally agreed that you're best off paying for the 2k and 4k gold heroes with gold, 7k with either cash or gold, and 10k heroes with cash (unless you happen to have a lot of gold around and already own all the cheaper heroes you want).
As for skins, some can be purchased for either cash or gold, and some are only cash and others are only gold.
Totally loving Zeratul now. What can I say? Gankin' makes me feel good! Heh, but seriously I really enjoy moving around the battlefield, lending a hand where it's needed.
I'm not convinced by wormhole. Everyone says it's great but I'm not feeling it. I find that in order to get my blink into a position where I'd want to be I need to first position myself in a place that I wouldn't want to escape to. For example in a lane I might find myself above or below to get a good blink in, and then if I wormhole back to there I have a lot of travel to get out of range. Either that or the combat has simply moved into the position I blink from and it's no longer a good escape.
I can see it being good against fleeing enemies, but that's a reasonably limited usage and most of the time I just secure the kill and walk away without a need to teleport. Oh and then there's the time I was stunned and desperate to escape so I pounded on E only to blink away and then wormhole back into the enemy. I also haven't felt a great need to blink into combat. I general try to mount up whenever possible and I'm often looking for my opportunity and positioning for a little while before I jump in and attack, so the blink in isn't needed.
I think I'm going to try assassin's blade next game and see how it is.
Wormhole isn't really an escape talent or a defensive talent or anything. More of an engagement type of thing? Kinda. It's mainly for harassing the backline. Blink in, quickly Cleave/Bomb/Auto, blink back out. You just did a ton of damage for free without getting punished.
You wanna try and find good areas to use it from. There's a whole shitload of nooks and crannies on like, Dragon Shire and Cursed Hollow for example. But even without those nooks and crannies, being able to get free damage off and walk away is huge.
The thing with Wormhole (Blink in general really) is knowing when to use Blink for Wormhole vs using Blink to escape vs using Blink to chase down/bodyblock/etc.
Oh, Wormhole is also good in 1v1s because that means an extra Follow Through (plus it's pretty disorienting to Blink behind someone and then Blink right back to where you were).
Dibby on
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Yes, but the alternative is getting +25% to your autoattack when you leave stealth.
So if you wanna snipe people then wormhole isn't as good.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Yes, but the alternative is getting +25% to your autoattack when you leave stealth.
So if you wanna snipe people then wormhole isn't as good.
It's more about living afterwards. Wormhole lets you engage with blink without losing the ability to GTFO when everyone tries to kill you. Plus it lets you do fun things in duels.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
See, I don't tend to use Blink to engage.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
The problem is that whilst at low MMR that's fine and you can walk up to people, higher up people will see the shimmer and de cloak you - and then you have to use blink to escape before you do any damage. You get used to the shimmer after a while, and wormhole means you can actually engage and get out safely.
It's a stupidly broken talent to be frank, and should be one of his level 20 abilities. It brings too much way too early.
The problem is that whilst at low MMR that's fine and you can walk up to people, higher up people will see the shimmer and de cloak you - and then you have to use blink to escape before you do any damage. You get used to the shimmer after a while, and wormhole means you can actually engage and get out safely.
It's a stupidly broken talent to be frank, and should be one of his level 20 abilities. It brings too much way too early.
I wouldn't say lvl 20, since it would prolly be no contest, but 16 would be good, just to give double bomb some competition.
That's basically the point of wormhole I'm pretty sure. So you can use it to engage and then escape again.
If you go a high burst build on Zeratul I think it works. If you go a less bursty (in comparison) build I find it less useful.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Posts
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
I've had it done against me. Then we blew up the Zeratul and finished the core because the rest of his team was still dead.
But even then, highly situational.
also maw can block a path.
Maw not freezing time can be a disadvantage sometimes, letting your enemy's cooldowns refresh. Dudes come out with all their escape ready.
One of the biggest difference is that Maw wastes time on abilities while Void doesn't. There's no reason to take that away.
Mechanically, that's exactly what it does. It makes you intangible vis a vis the game. The difference is that the internal timer keeps ticking.
You maw a meta illidan, he wastes his ult. You void a meta illidan, he comes out swinging.
You maw an illidan who had 6 seconds before his ult, he can meta once maw is done. You void an illidan who had 6 seconds before his ult, he still has 6 seconds before the ult.
And since you can literally place void prison in front of the entrance to the enemy base and prevent them from rushing out if your team can just barely kill the core, or use void prison on your own core to prevent the enemy from destroying it, yeah they have hugely different purposes.
One of my favorite plays is using void prison on a team that has killed the boss but didn't move to the cap-point, then taking the boss and *WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP*
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
There's many times I'd rather be mawed. Cause your stuff comes off cooldown during it.
I see tons of teams that will surround a void prism (or a web wrap) to secure a kill when chasing and when you come out of void prism, their abilities are more likely to be up then yours because of the freeze whereas with maw there's a decent chance my escape ability is ready to go now and escape the net.
It's an interesting difference.
Wow....Dick move
lol
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
Even if they nerf Maw, people will still take Maw unless it becomes unplayably bad because Maw still does something in a teamfight whereas Nydus does nothing except enable cute gimmicky tricks that rarely work out.
uh...maw does like... a "slap in the face" amount of damage?
Edit: 555 +78 dps seems okay-ish, but the damage isn't what makes maw that good
Also for people saying "why would you take VP over Maw/Maw over VP", consider that they exist on different characters with different kits. Zeratul is a high burst, highly mobile Melee Assassin. Zagara is a sustained damage, high push/lane bully Specialist that can also provide vision via her trait.
They're both very good right now, as well.
I don't think it's a matter of "well x is better than y!" as much as it is two different Heroes having similar-yet-different Ults. They do pretty much the same thing in the end, but work differently. It's like comparing Zeratul's Blink to Valla's Vault or Falstad's Barrel Roll. All escape abilities, but they all function differently.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Like I think Maw will just shove them aside, but VP will absolutely work? Can anyone confirm?
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
Steam Friend code: 45386507
Yep, it shuts down Diablo's fire breath.
--how long does it last
--can it be destroyed
--is there a limited amount of it
--is it mostly used to provide vision or plopped in lane for the benefits or both
--240 seconds
--Yes, they can be revealed and killed just like stealth heroes
--No
--Both. ABC (always be creepin')
I already said it earlier, Maw works mechanically identical to void prison in how it tags someone. They aren't stunned, they are uninteractable. Intangible. Void Prison just has an added mechanic where it freezes all timers as well.
--is there a limited amount of it
Only by your cooldown/mana
--is it mostly used to provide vision or plopped in lane for the benefits or both
Both. One thing to note is that the tumor is the only thing that provides vision, not the creep spread itself
Kaeyoh from Tempostorm gives a good primer on creep:
I agree with most of what he says. Eventually you'd figure out ideal spots to place creep.
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
Once you get the timing down add the damage offthe banelings you 100% should be able to hit the whole bunch with right as they come out
Except banelings will still miss at least a few if they do the right thing and spread out and/or use their disengage.
And a stun works for getting banelings off on a guy, or even two guys.
You got Valla for free if you prepurchased RoS I think.
I'm not convinced by wormhole. Everyone says it's great but I'm not feeling it. I find that in order to get my blink into a position where I'd want to be to engage I need to first position myself in a place that I wouldn't want to escape to. For example in a lane I might find myself above or below to get a good blink in, and then if I wormhole back to there I have a lot of travel to get out of range. Either that or the combat has simply moved into the position I blink from and it's no longer a good escape.
I can see it being good against fleeing enemies, but that's a reasonably limited usage and most of the time I just secure the kill and walk away without a need to teleport. Oh and then there's the time I was stunned and desperate to escape so I pounded on E only to blink away and then wormhole back into the enemy. I also haven't felt a great need to blink into combat. I general try to mount up whenever possible and I'm often looking for my opportunity and positioning for a little while before I jump in and attack, so the blink in isn't needed.
I think I'm going to try assassin's blade next game and see how it is.
Switch: 6589-6405-3399
Welcome, @Arthil ! Join heroes of the wang in game and you can group up with us and learn the game faster.
By Demon Hunter do you mean the character Valla, or one of her skins? For all the characters in the game there are two ways you can aquire them. First you can pay for them in game currency of gold, which you earn mostly by leveling characters and doing daily challenges (play a warrior 3 times, win 3 times, etc). You also get a little gold after every match but that's not where the real money comes from. You can also simply pay cash. There are different cash and gold prices for heroes and it's generally agreed that you're best off paying for the 2k and 4k gold heroes with gold, 7k with either cash or gold, and 10k heroes with cash (unless you happen to have a lot of gold around and already own all the cheaper heroes you want).
As for skins, some can be purchased for either cash or gold, and some are only cash and others are only gold.
Switch: 6589-6405-3399
Wormhole isn't really an escape talent or a defensive talent or anything. More of an engagement type of thing? Kinda. It's mainly for harassing the backline. Blink in, quickly Cleave/Bomb/Auto, blink back out. You just did a ton of damage for free without getting punished.
You wanna try and find good areas to use it from. There's a whole shitload of nooks and crannies on like, Dragon Shire and Cursed Hollow for example. But even without those nooks and crannies, being able to get free damage off and walk away is huge.
The thing with Wormhole (Blink in general really) is knowing when to use Blink for Wormhole vs using Blink to escape vs using Blink to chase down/bodyblock/etc.
Oh, Wormhole is also good in 1v1s because that means an extra Follow Through (plus it's pretty disorienting to Blink behind someone and then Blink right back to where you were).
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
So if you wanna snipe people then wormhole isn't as good.
It's more about living afterwards. Wormhole lets you engage with blink without losing the ability to GTFO when everyone tries to kill you. Plus it lets you do fun things in duels.
It's a stupidly broken talent to be frank, and should be one of his level 20 abilities. It brings too much way too early.
I wouldn't say lvl 20, since it would prolly be no contest, but 16 would be good, just to give double bomb some competition.
That's basically the point of wormhole I'm pretty sure. So you can use it to engage and then escape again.
If you go a high burst build on Zeratul I think it works. If you go a less bursty (in comparison) build I find it less useful.
I know the point of wormhole, but I find that it is fairly hard to use properly and get off a full rotation before the timer is up.