Man, I think starting my school district in Dallas was 30k.
Starting pay for teachers up here only recently (last 2-3 years) broke the $20K line in many areas, well below median per-capita income.
I remember hearing that when Helena put up a teaching position opening that had a decent salary for there - well, they got responses from all over the US, from top notch candidates.
This is true, and part of why my wife and I now life 100 miles apart during the week (she got a position in Helena). But Helena is, IIRC, either the top-paying district in the state or a close second...and she still only started at like $35K* (elementary, though) with two bachelor's degrees (psychology and el-ed).
Though the second degree didn't bump her as much as a master's would.
From what she tells me, though, part of why Helena pays better than other districts in the state is because they also require more hours/days each year of non-school time to be put in by teachers...for various shit, like training and community bullshit or whatever. The extra work still doesn't outweigh the increased pay, but it does offset it a bit.
I think overall though Montana is like 49th or 50th in absolute terms for teacher pay...so this is unsurprising. Pegged to median per-capita income I believe we fare a bit better, but still not great.
* - Keep in mind, of course, that the median income in the state is only like $29K, and was less a couple years ago when she got hired...so not quite as bad as it might sound.
They had an interesting program which I almost decided to do, which was basically, anybody who graduated from a Dallas high school in the top 10% of their class got a letter in the folder with their diploma. The letter offered them a guaranteed position in a Dallas school at the above pay, if they got a teaching certification within 5 years. They really wanted teachers.
Wow, that's actually kind of scary.
The thing is that schools are desperate. The cost of a post-secondary education combined with the low salaries that teachers get means that in many ways, it's a sucker's game.
It's less scary when you consider that a bachelor's degree is required to get a teaching teaching certificate in TX (I just looked it up), but still. As much as I love teaching, the thought of doing it in a public school is sickeningly off-putting. I'm either going to teach college or just become a corporate whore. I haven't decided which yet.
They had an interesting program which I almost decided to do, which was basically, anybody who graduated from a Dallas high school in the top 10% of their class got a letter in the folder with their diploma. The letter offered them a guaranteed position in a Dallas school at the above pay, if they got a teaching certification within 5 years. They really wanted teachers.
Wow, that's actually kind of scary.
The thing is that schools are desperate. The cost of a post-secondary education combined with the low salaries that teachers get means that in many ways, it's a sucker's game.
It's less scary when you consider that a bachelor's degree is required to get a teaching teaching certificate in TX (I just looked it up), but still. As much as I love teaching, the thought of doing it in a public school is sickeningly off-putting. I'm either going to teach college or just become a corporate whore. I haven't decided which yet.
In some states, like NY, teachers are required to have masters degrees (though new teachers can enter with just a BS, but must get their masters in a set period of time and show adequate progress in doing so each year).
It has been pointed out that parents in poorer areas (read:the areas that are having problems with No Child Left Behind) read to their kids less and generally speaking take less of an interest in their education, right?
Mental development and learning shouldn't stop when the kids leave school.
It has been pointed out that parents in poorer areas (read:the areas that are having problems with No Child Left Behind) read to their kids less and generally speaking take less of an interest in their education, right?
Mental development and learning shouldn't stop when the kids leave school.
Yes it has, but I disagree that the poorer areas are the only ones having problems with NCLB.
It has been pointed out that parents in poorer areas (read:the areas that are having problems with No Child Left Behind) read to their kids less and generally speaking take less of an interest in their education, right?
Mental development and learning shouldn't stop when the kids leave school.
Yes it has, but I disagree that the poorer areas are the only ones having problems with NCLB.
Is there not a strong correlation between the two?
It has been pointed out that parents in poorer areas (read:the areas that are having problems with No Child Left Behind) read to their kids less and generally speaking take less of an interest in their education, right?
Mental development and learning shouldn't stop when the kids leave school.
Yes it has, but I disagree that the poorer areas are the only ones having problems with NCLB.
Is there not a strong correlation between the two?
It depends what you mean by "having problems." The ones that NCLB itself reports as having problems are typically the poorer ones, yes. The ones that are having problems in the sense that they're harming the education and intellectual development of their better students are all over the place.
It has been pointed out that parents in poorer areas (read:the areas that are having problems with No Child Left Behind) read to their kids less and generally speaking take less of an interest in their education, right?
Mental development and learning shouldn't stop when the kids leave school.
Yes it has, but I disagree that the poorer areas are the only ones having problems with NCLB.
Is there not a strong correlation between the two?
It depends what you mean by "having problems." The ones that NCLB itself reports as having problems are typically the poorer ones, yes. The ones that are having problems in the sense that they're harming the education and intellectual development of their better students are all over the place.
I'd agree with that, absolutely.
I should have been more clear:
I'm saying is that all NCLB looks at is performance, and it assumes that the teachers and schools are 100% responsible for that, which is fucking dumb.
IIRC NCLB also looks at performance increases from year to year. At some point, it's going to be hard to continue increasing :P.
The problem I and most others have with NCLB is that it's only concerned with a single score cutoff point. Lots of students above the cutoff = good. NCLB isn't concerned with excellence in any way. It's only concerned about students meeting minimum requirements.
I'm not sure if it covers all of Texas, but in the Dallas metroplex, they have a program going on where, if a recent college graduate gets hired as a high school math teacher, the state pays off all of their student loans over 5 years (as long as they are a teacher for that long). I don't know about you, but that sure makes me want to be a math teacher with a masters or doctorate :P
I'm not sure if it covers all of Texas, but in the Dallas metroplex, they have a program going on where, if a recent college graduate gets hired as a high school math teacher, the state pays off all of their student loans over 5 years (as long as they are a teacher for that long). I don't know about you, but that sure makes me want to be a math teacher with a masters or doctorate :P
AR has the State Teacher Assistance Resource (STAR) Program, where eligible students "may receive up to $6,000 per year or a total of up to $18,000 in scholarship money for a five-year education degree program."
Also, my school system starts out with $41,000 for a teacher with a Bachelor's, and maxes out at $64,799, but that's with 25 years of teaching plus a master's plus going to extra classes for teaching on your off-time, and we're pretty much the richest district in AR (yay, Wal-mart?)
Oh, it's no question that, on the whole, school teachers in America are payed horribly.
Apparently there is some question, since I've seen some passionate arguments on this very forum that this is not the case. Mainly from people who gather their information on how much and how hard teacher work from their schedules and workloads as a student.
Oh, it's no question that, on the whole, school teachers in America are payed horribly.
Apparently there is some question, since I've seen some passionate arguments on this very forum that this is not the case. Mainly from people who gather their information on how much and how hard teacher work from their schedules and workloads as a student.
There's also the classic "but teaching is a 'calling' " argument too - in other words, teachers should accept poor pay because they're teaching "for the children".
Everytime I hear that argument, I want to stab the speaker in the face with something blunt.
I've only read up to the first 30 posts at the moment. I just finished high school last school year and I live in Canada. I have to say that if this is true about teachers being forced to focus on tests and not fun, well damn that sucks. Sure the teachers here teach to help you with the tests by preparing you but I've had plenty of teachers that have fun. Some make a lot of jokes some talk to people that are really interested in politics about what is going on in the world and the class gets to hear. It's nice to start the day off making fun of politicians.
I'm not sure if I heard someone say that teachers teach by the textbook? I hope not if America's textbooks are even half as bad as ours. Also there are guidance councilor's to help you if you ever have issues and want to talk to someone privately. Plus I've had a few teachers mention several times that these tests aren't the end of the world so I hope that's not what America's school system is currently trying to burn into the children's minds.
Posts
This is true, and part of why my wife and I now life 100 miles apart during the week (she got a position in Helena). But Helena is, IIRC, either the top-paying district in the state or a close second...and she still only started at like $35K* (elementary, though) with two bachelor's degrees (psychology and el-ed).
Though the second degree didn't bump her as much as a master's would.
From what she tells me, though, part of why Helena pays better than other districts in the state is because they also require more hours/days each year of non-school time to be put in by teachers...for various shit, like training and community bullshit or whatever. The extra work still doesn't outweigh the increased pay, but it does offset it a bit.
I think overall though Montana is like 49th or 50th in absolute terms for teacher pay...so this is unsurprising. Pegged to median per-capita income I believe we fare a bit better, but still not great.
* - Keep in mind, of course, that the median income in the state is only like $29K, and was less a couple years ago when she got hired...so not quite as bad as it might sound.
It's less scary when you consider that a bachelor's degree is required to get a teaching teaching certificate in TX (I just looked it up), but still. As much as I love teaching, the thought of doing it in a public school is sickeningly off-putting. I'm either going to teach college or just become a corporate whore. I haven't decided which yet.
In some states, like NY, teachers are required to have masters degrees (though new teachers can enter with just a BS, but must get their masters in a set period of time and show adequate progress in doing so each year).
Mental development and learning shouldn't stop when the kids leave school.
Yes it has, but I disagree that the poorer areas are the only ones having problems with NCLB.
Is there not a strong correlation between the two?
It depends what you mean by "having problems." The ones that NCLB itself reports as having problems are typically the poorer ones, yes. The ones that are having problems in the sense that they're harming the education and intellectual development of their better students are all over the place.
I'd agree with that, absolutely.
I should have been more clear:
I'm saying is that all NCLB looks at is performance, and it assumes that the teachers and schools are 100% responsible for that, which is fucking dumb.
IIRC NCLB also looks at performance increases from year to year. At some point, it's going to be hard to continue increasing :P.
The problem I and most others have with NCLB is that it's only concerned with a single score cutoff point. Lots of students above the cutoff = good. NCLB isn't concerned with excellence in any way. It's only concerned about students meeting minimum requirements.
AR has the State Teacher Assistance Resource (STAR) Program, where eligible students "may receive up to $6,000 per year or a total of up to $18,000 in scholarship money for a five-year education degree program."
Also, my school system starts out with $41,000 for a teacher with a Bachelor's, and maxes out at $64,799, but that's with 25 years of teaching plus a master's plus going to extra classes for teaching on your off-time, and we're pretty much the richest district in AR (yay, Wal-mart?)
The way around that is to lower the standards every year. Wow look at that progress! (This is happening btw. I didn't make that up)
Apparently there is some question, since I've seen some passionate arguments on this very forum that this is not the case. Mainly from people who gather their information on how much and how hard teacher work from their schedules and workloads as a student.
There's also the classic "but teaching is a 'calling' " argument too - in other words, teachers should accept poor pay because they're teaching "for the children".
Everytime I hear that argument, I want to stab the speaker in the face with something blunt.
Why don't you just invite some vampires in while you're at it?
We'd have an easier time dealing with the vampires.
I'm not sure if I heard someone say that teachers teach by the textbook? I hope not if America's textbooks are even half as bad as ours. Also there are guidance councilor's to help you if you ever have issues and want to talk to someone privately. Plus I've had a few teachers mention several times that these tests aren't the end of the world so I hope that's not what America's school system is currently trying to burn into the children's minds.