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Store PCs and their ridiculous internal layouts
tbloxham
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So today I decided my PC was finally in need of some new RAM, to help me play Hellgate London better. So I opened it up, after downloading a handy program I was referred to that let me check my RAM type, to check that I did indeed have he spare ram slots I thought I did. On opening it I realized I couldnt see any ram slots at all, so I nosed around with a flashlight. After a few minutes I realized that the system had been laid out so that the RAM slots were behind the hard drive mounting, to get to and change my RAM, I would need to unplug the disks and possibly remove the mounting for this external drive thing the computer came with.
This is quite absurd? Why have extra ram slots if you arrange the computer so they are innacessable! Its not like there aren't many oher layouts which would have left the RAM easy to access. If for some obscure reason I desired to get to all the printed circuitry and diodes on the motherboard I could access them easily.
Is this level of absurdity common? Or have I just been unfortunate.
I'm most irritated by this, I don't know whether or not I want to risk unplugging the hard disk drives! Thats a bit beyond what I do with my PCs. They usually just get new RAM every 12 months, new graphics card after 24 and then get replaced!
This is quite absurd? Why have extra ram slots if you arrange the computer so they are innacessable! Its not like there aren't many oher layouts which would have left the RAM easy to access. If for some obscure reason I desired to get to all the printed circuitry and diodes on the motherboard I could access them easily.
Is this level of absurdity common? Or have I just been unfortunate.
I'm most irritated by this, I don't know whether or not I want to risk unplugging the hard disk drives! Thats a bit beyond what I do with my PCs. They usually just get new RAM every 12 months, new graphics card after 24 and then get replaced!
"That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
tbloxham on
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Yet people are still posting technology threads outside of the subforum.
Is this absurdity common?
However, unplugging the hard drives is a pretty trivial matter. It's just a hard drive. Make sure your computer is off (jesus christ I hope you turned it off before poking around inside it) and unplugged from the wall, then just remove the power and data cables. There is practically no way you can plug these back in wrong, they're keyed so you can't. Unscrew the sides, slide them out, put you RAM in, then hook them back up. You can't damage a hard drive by removing power to it, your computer does this every time it goes into sleep/hibernate/poweroff anyway.
addition - and I did unplug it first, I'm only vaguely incompetent in terms of PC innards. I usually have no problem with my annual RAM upgrade
We have a lot of gateways at work that tend to be pretty easy to work on.
It's the home-geared brands with the extra fancy form-factors that are usually the problems. HP, Compaq, etc come to mind, seen a few Dells like this too. It's almost like the exterior design was a more important factor than the accessibility issue. Which, isn't really surprising if they are marketed to the general consumer.
Furthermore, I don't think you run a risk unplugging your harddrives. Just do the following:
1) Ensure that the computer is NOT running; better yet, unplugged completely.
2) Do this in a non-carpeted/static free environment. I usually do my computer work on the kitchen floor (linoleum), and bare-footed. Place your hand on the power supply before touching any other internal parts of the computer.
3) If you are unsure about what cables do what. Mark them prior to unplugging, to ensure they will be replaced correctly.
If you feel really queasy about the whole ordeal... Offer your IT guy at work $50 to come do it for you; or, pay Best Buy (etc...) $100. Should only take about 15-20 minutes.
But the prebuilt machines do have issues like this more often, because the manufacturers know that most customers won't be installing more RAM themselves. So by that thinking, the extra slots are their for use at the time of building, not by the consumer. And then they know that for most folks who undertake a RAM upgrade, removing a drive or two isn't a big deal, so what's the harm?
Oh, and some builders, like Dell, use really weird internal layouts but also make the RAM easy to reach (like their old line of machines with RDRAM or whatever it was called)... so it can cut both ways.
Anyway, if you're replacing RAM and video cards, you should have no problem with disconnecting the drives temporarily. Just takes notes on which cables get plugged in where. There's no "risk" really... do a backup, unplug, make sure you're not in a dry/staticy room and touch the metal case or the PS before working on it. Same as you'd do if you were only touching the RAM.
Also... new RAM every 12 months? Why?
> turn on light
Good start to the day. Pity it's going to be the worst one of your life. The light is now on.
Sorry, I was being depressed for no reason, I posted my depressed post while you posted yours and so our wires were crossed. I apologize, for both that and my doubt in the new sub-forum. Many people seem to be more observant than I and have both found it and posted in it
Not new RAM, just more RAM. I find that after 12 months what was once a behemoth of a PC is starting to chug, and throwing more RAM in keeps it useful for very little money. Its usually also trivially easy.
Unfortunately they come with little to no instruction or indication of what you're supposed to be doing exactly, so I usually just pull on stuff until one of them happens to pop open.
I don't recommend this.
Oh well, this is what happens when you're able to get multiple people building multiple items needed to work together.
Side Note: Who's in charge of the ATX standard?
Many years ago my sister wanted a PC, and I built her one for her birthday in a rather nifty-looking purple case (with matching peripherals!). She loved it, and I'm still glad I did it for her, but good lord was it a nightmare to work in. Clearly all the effort had gone into the exterior design. The thing didn't even have rolled edges on the steel chassis!
> turn on light
Good start to the day. Pity it's going to be the worst one of your life. The light is now on.
In older Dells, especially. I've seen old Gateway 2000 models that are also pretty wonky. Now, even though a lot of weird proprietary hardware is employed, brand-name computers are at least somewhat upgradable.
Satans..... hints.....
Oh, and another thing. Do not use an ordinary vacuum on the inside of your computer. The air-stream flowing into the nozzle will build up a lot of static electricity, and you might fry something.
I believe you are technically correct about that. But I don't believe it's really necessary unless you are in a high-static-potential area. Even more important, you need to be VERY sure that no electricity is getting to the powersupply/motherboard, so the PS switch should be turned off, AND the power strip it's plugged into should be turned off too. You want it to be grounded but with NO power coming through the wires. To me, it's too easy to accidentally leave those switches on. And if you do leave the PS plugged in, I think you'd definitely want to be wearing a wrist strap connected to that (now-grounded) case or PS.
In normal practice, unplugging and touching the bare metal of the case (or touching grounded bare metal elsewhere) works fine.
And re: vacuums, I wouldn't put any sort of motorized device like that inside a PC case. The thought of sticking a vacuum (with or without bristles) inside a computer is kinda scary to me. Compressed air is the way to go; just mind the angle you're spraying at and don't freeze your fingers.
> turn on light
Good start to the day. Pity it's going to be the worst one of your life. The light is now on.
In truth its a conspiracy operated by failing mega companies like sony and countries like china to make you cut yourself and throw computers away, so we can become less powerful
as a tech person, let me tell you, unplug the thing from the wall, period.
Just because power is off doesnt mean power is off, there is still potential for any capacitors to hold a charge, it's best to unplug it, listen for that slight discharging sound and keep your hand on the metal frame as you work, or use a grounding strap of some kind.
http://www.dansdata.com/buildpc.htm
Anyway, this is something I would not worry to much about. Just do not work in a high static area and you should be ok, I don't think I've ever managed to fry a component...
no. unplug it.
Agreed. Please, please, don't leave your computer plugged in while you work on it.
It is so much safer for you and your components to buy a simple grounding strap, attach one end to your wrist, and another end to an unpainted metal part of your case.
Oh, and don't let other people/pets into the area you are working in. I've had my long hair cat fry a cpu before
Yes.
Leaving your computer plugged in while working on it is a great way to get an excuse to buy a new computer ;-)
B.net: Kusanku
If you are really concerned about grounding the case, plugging it in might be "easiest", but it is horribly dangerous for OTHER reasons. Find a different way to ground the case.
Generally, though, you can consider your case to already be grounded (unless, as has been said, you are in an environment where you know that isn't the case) and you should use the case to ground yourself, either through direct physical contact, or through a grounding strap.
Because if you forget to actually hit the physical switch on the PSU (assuming it even has one!), then even if the computer is technically "powered off" there's still power going to the motherboard.
ACPI, Wake-on-LAN, and any number of other minor things depend on some parts of the board getting power when "off".
B.net: Kusanku
The best advice I can give, before you start futzing around inside of expensive hardware, and playing with electricity, is think about it.
I think it is a sort of thing where one COULD do stuff in an open case while it is plugged in, but it is much safer to just leave it plugged in, if only as a precaution and old wives tale. In either case, unplugging it causes zero harm, so why not unplug?
I actually google'd this subject a bit after I wrote my reply last night. It seems that opinions vary on whether it helps to have the PC plugged in to ground it. So my reply stands: leaving it plugged in but off is probably technically OK, maybe even technically better, but it could VERY easily turn NOT OK. And we don't want to be NOT OK when working with our expensive PC stuff. (Apparently the risk of bodily harm is very low either way, unless you go licking the power supply.)
So while there's not a lot of authoritative info on these ESD issues, there IS a great deal of anecdotal info saying that unplugging is plenty safe as long as you're not in a high-static situation. So: unplug it.
> turn on light
Good start to the day. Pity it's going to be the worst one of your life. The light is now on.
The funny thing is that I've found that common sense regarding electricity is quite often wrong...generally wrong on the safe side of things (so not a bad thing), but wrong. And as HarshLanguage said, it's not so much an issue of bodily injury, but rather damage to parts...which should be eliminated if the power supply is switched off.
I'd still agree that it's best to keep it unplugged just to reduce the risk of forgetting and frying something, and if you're that concerned about grounding do it another way. It's not hard.