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Oh for God's sake, let's talk about the freaking [Election Fallout]
ElJeffe
Not actually a mod.Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPA mod
Not actually a mod.Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPA mod
Discussion of the election and its aftermath, including the recount effort, goes here.
Don't make me regret this, you freaking hyenas.
Don't make me regret this, you freaking hyenas.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
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http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/11/25/503349326/people-have-donated-millions-to-jill-steins-recount-campaign-is-it-worth-it
Good. Good job, Jill.
So they're going to do a recount and then officially confirm that, yes, Donald Trump is President.
Remember that scene in that old Tom Cruise lawyer movie, when Demi Moore (I think it was Demi Moore) loses her cool and then adamantly attempts to object to a court's witness, thus prompting the judge to highlight to everyone the established credentials of the witness & reinforce the importance of their testimony?
Yeah.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/25/jill-stein-election-recount-clinton-trump-michigan-pennsylvania-wisconsin
Michigan preparing for potential hand recount of 4.8M presidential votes
http://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2016/11/25/michigan-preparing-potential-hand-recount-48m-presidential-votes/94429196/
Those two are pretty straightforward. Jill Stein crowdfunded enough money to ask for a recount. She did so for Wisconsin today. She plans to do so for Michigan on Monday.
Three Wisconsin precincts revise vote totals after caught padding Donald Trump’s numbers
http://www.palmerreport.com/news/three-wisconsin-precincts-revise-vote-totals-caught-padding-donald-trumps-numbers/228/
"Various internet users" noticed voting discrepancies. Three precincts in Outagamie County were reporting that more people had voted in the presidential race than had voted at all. It's claimed that the Chief Inspector made a mistake while adding together the votes from the election machine tapes; but the result was more than a thousand votes for Trump that didn't exist. It's said that the official tally delivered on November 9th reflects the accurate value, but I guess we'll find out for sure during the recount.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
well people are giving money to Jill stein
A fool and his money are easily parted
If the recount shows that things were not accurate and there was tampering, then the problem remains that... and also a whole lot more worse things that would be really good to know about.
Which Trump voters will say was a complete waste of time on everyone's part, shouldn't have happened, and was just Hillary voters whining and trying to rig things.
It's been said time and again over these past few weeks I'm sure, but this really does seem like the most divided and confrontational the nation has been towards itself since the aftermath of the Civil War. Regardless of whether there's reason for it or not, nobody trusts anybody
Also $5 mil just went to an almost definitely useless recount instead of helping any of the charities that are absolutely going to need support now more than ever, like RAINN for example
Steam
Stein doing it is actually the best way for it to happen, because she never had a chance in the first place so the whole thing feels more impartial. She's also not keeping the money so I don't really get why it being her is the issue. She's still awful, but in this one instance she's not acting such.
The process re-confirms that Donald Trump won.
At best, it creates a perception of Trump's detractors just being a bunch of sore losers. Clinton was absolutely right to just walk away and accept the defeat rather than lingering on it.
And? Hillary should be the one calling for these recounts but she's not. Russia clearly when whole hog into getting Trump elected and our voting security is shit. If there is even a 1% chance any machines had systemic errors it needs to be fully investiagted.
- Terence McKenna
This line of thinking just leads to sitting in a corner and not doing anything, because any action or inaction could always have been better spent elsewhere. Money spent for one thing could have been spent for another thing. Maybe it would have done more good over there, maybe it wouldn't have. Maybe there's an equal result.
Life isn't a zero sum game, and this is an unfair argument.
Steam
Well, you're talking about a margin of about 100,000~ votes. If there was tampering, it would almost certainly leave some sign of statistical funny business within that margin - one candidate being significantly over represented in digital ballots, for example.
Russia trolled Clinton during the campaign as a gesture of retaliation; if there was an intent to brofist Trump, it was almost certainly ancillary to the goal of hitting Clinton back for the perceived slights of Obama's state department towards the Kremlin. The likelihood that they would send in spies to attempt to directly tamper with a vote would be miniscule (I mean, consider the cost/benefits analysis of expending your espionage resources that way. You potentially lose a bunch of spies if they are caught, and you're unlikely to be able to affect the outcome of an election except in some pretty specific circumstances).
Honestly I'm glad they're going to do a few recounts. I don't think this win was white as the driven snow and honestly if you could undo all the illegal vote suppression and 'untraceable counting errors' but there won't be enough evidence to overturn it. If we air some dirty laundry, we'll be able to do better next time.
Still, now she's doing one or two already thats probably enough cash. Send your money to Louisiana now.
What exactly is the problem with recounting?
Is this tiny shred of hope cruel? Probably, but this whole year has been so mega-fucked up already, who knows.
The reinforced message of authority given to Trump. This is political capital being wheel barrowed over to him.
is it though
isn't the worst-case scenario "trump did indeed win the election, as we all thought"
jill stein might forfeit some credibility? but no-one was taking her seriously to begin with
I mean it seems incredibly improbably that PA, WI and MI would all be wrong. For them to all be wrong it would take a concerted effort. Basically we'd need widespread treason.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
But for two states to rig their elections AND a foreign power to hack a third state and no one talked about it is unlikely, like all conspiracies.
Well, I mean the worst case scenario is, "We've discovered widespread infiltration of our voting systems. The whole thing is fucked, GG," because that will lead to a shitshow of unprecedented proportions.
The next worse case is, yes, that the system re-confirms Trump's victory. Which is just bad. It isn't 'OH MY GOD SO TERRIBLE!', but it's still purely bad optics for those looking for the recount & positive optics for Trump. It is a terrible idea.
The more evidence of fraud/miscounting that is found, the more divided the country will become.
If a state flips, it'll be mass chaos. Doesn't matter that it wouldn't change the result, absolutely no one will trust the results of the election or any other going forward. There will be riots.
I think in the completely unlikely event that there is widespread voter fraud, that is absolutely something I want to know. If it just reconfirms Trump, he still lost by 2mil votes, so it doesn't really make him seem like he has more of a mandate than he did before.
I don't agree that it is, he already has all the power, a recount will just confirm the unfortunate reality in a worst case scenario.
We are already in a worst case scenario.
Nazi riots. Let them kick and scream, they will commit their hate crimes either way
not that anything stops conspiracy theories, i guess
Nah, dude lost by 2 million votes, this just confirms that he won the locations required for him to steal the election because of the bull shit way our electoral college works.
Like, for real, never let anyone forget that. This dude lost the vote by 2 fucking million. The majority of people in this country do not want him to be the president. That is a fact that must be continually hammered home every day of the next 4 years to every outlet that can hear it so that we can ensure that people don't think he has any kind of mandate.
If all is well, then great, but if he won via cheating in a single state then regardless of how much chaos it might cause we have to know. Otherwise the same will occur next time, and then we'll have much worse than riots.
i was just beginning to get my life together and then every government in the western world was like, hey, we're nazis now
what
oh yeah we're nazis, it's cool. don't think about it
In reality, neither matters because through the ego-drenched lens of Trump he won and that is the Mandate.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Yeah. Like Neco said: We are already in the darkest timeline. "It makes us look whiny if it's nothing!" I ain't give a fuck. Do the recount. Whatever the result I want to know it.
The only state he could won the whole election in if it was fraudulent is Texas. Has to be all three of MI/WI/PA.