So, I was just accepted into Touro University's Nevada DPT program. At first, I was thrilled. I applied to every other PT school on the West Coast, and this was the only one I made it into.
Unfortunately, there's very little I can find in the way of statistics of the program. And the User/Program reviews are all pretty horrifying. Descrimination, cohort sizes cut from 35-20, failing classes over a few points. Not to mention, their program isn't listed on U.S. News Graduate Program ranking.
I'm not fully committed yet, but I am starting the process of applying for FAFSA and other loans. I simply cannot afford to start a program and not finish it. Hearing stories of a cohort being slashed by 1/3 is really, really giving me pause. I'm a good student, but for crying out loud, I'm putting up almost 200k minimum. This really has me worried and I'm not sure what I can do.
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If not, if you have cold feet, it's OK to delay for a year while you figure out if it's a good idea. No-one can afford to make a 200k mistake.
Touro has a lot of those types of programs it seems, pretty sure they have a med and a pa also.
Honestly if they have accredidation, a class is mostly a class. its the hands on stuff/experiential stuff that matters
I've got a friend who recently started PT school I'll see if I can get her opinion.
also smaller cohorts is honestly better for you you can't flood the market with people or else no one gets a job
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really the only flag is discrimination, However, not to suggest it can't happen but the cynic in me wonders how much of that is someone not cutting it and getting kicked out of the program shouting discrimination. I do pre-med/health career advising the the type of people going that way, it would not surprise me if that happened
I think Touro is a relatively young school so I wouldn't worry about US News reports. I don't think that is really relevant anymore.
again
the only thing that matters is accreditation and any certs they need to train you.
The part that had me spooked was the discrepancy between the reported graduation rate and the slaughter of the cohort. In my experience, that is really a red flag.
Yeah, that'd be great. Just ask her if there are any red flags to look out for so far as a program is concerned.
Now I ALWAYS follow the rule of, "one terrible review does not make or break anything." However, I have yet to find ONE wholly positive review of the program. Which, of course, has me a little concernicus maximus.
That's the advice given to me by my former research adviser -- if you have questions, reach out to the professors themselves, and do it as soon as you know you're interested in their program/area of expertise.
Once again, bias report: I am a staff administrator at a major public university and have worked in a wide range of fields from graduate admissions, financial aid, advising, and academic assessment. I do not live in your region, and do not know anything about this school beyond what I reviewed this morning. This review is my take from the facts presented, but I will always have bias towards public schools rather than private non-profit and for-profit except where quality is well published and assured.
Their accreditation is active for both the PA program and their overall accreditation with the Western Association of Colleges and Schools. They have a number of graduates and appear to be a legitimate medical school on paper. While they claim to be non-religious affiliated, it is a Judaic-sponsored school (which I assume is rather similar to the Christian colleges in the south of being mostly secular where it counts with some pretty specific student policy issues). That said, this does come up in the student reviews from the western US (though their worldwide campuses abroad don't seem to have any negative issues with the religious element). I tried to limit my data set to Nevada, Oregon, and California campuses where possible.
Diversity:
Re: your diversity question, Princeton Review has some interesting figures to help with that on their free page: https://www.princetonreview.com/grad/touro-university-worldwide-9459727
These do appear outdated by a few years, so probably the only ones worth looking at are racial diversity and gender parity.
Faculty Complaints:
My worry would be the faculty. They do have a faculty senate, which is good! They also have a very low perception from incoming faculty and appear to have a very high turnover rate, which is bad. Outgoing faculty reviews are... not great. They never are, mind you, but these all come with the same consistent statement: Underpaid faculty, overpaid administration, lack of respect, lack of diversity. The first one is probably said by everyone who leaves a job ever, but many provided examples of faculty at Touro being paid 20-40% less than other local PA schools, which is... really alarming. That means the folks teaching are either new professors seeking to find some work history, locals who don't want to move beyond the area even for higher pay, or are non-viable candidates at other schools and are willing to take the pay cut. All three are equally likely, and your best faculty here probably fall in that second category. Lots of faculty are willing to take pay cuts to not leave their hometowns (its a really common thing), but in my experience they are 30% at best when you have this scenario.
Student Complaints:
From a half hour read this morning, online reviews seem to repeat the same four complaints:
Recommendation:
Given the stuff I have seen here, along with the fact this is the only school you got into on first round, I would be very cautious. I would recommend getting in touch with the public medical schools that denied you to find out why they did and how to improve your applications for next round over investing the many, many thousands of dollars in a school with any degree of ambiguity in quality. If, after doing so, the public/more reputable schools make it clear they will not take you and that Touro is your only option in the field, before you enroll go talk with the placed you want to work at to see if they have any specific reputation concerns with the school. If all the local practitioners think Touro is fine, then it may be worth it (but if so, it does appear you will need to be highly motivated and self-directed in your studies to complete).
Again, be very cautious here. You are investing ~$50-80k on this. Washing out midway or not being able to find a position at the end are real bad things for the rest of your life. Do the homework, and determine if the answer is the easily available one (Touro), or if you can rise up to the level of the more competitive schools.
Quick question that probably doesn’t change the overall recommendation, but probably should be clarified. I noticed you kept mentioning PA program and not the DPT is that a typo or were you looking at the Physician Assistant program not the Doctorate of Physical Therapy? Even if you were I wouldn’t expect the two programs to be that different from the points mentioned (it doesn’t negate the awesome research you just did!), just thought it should be clarified.
Yeah, it's sort of 50/50 split. I know there's not much overlap between the two (I have heard of bridge programs but those are rare). I have to weigh getting into the field and making, you know, money, with my overall career advancement.
I ran the numbers in Excel. With Touro, assuming I graduate. I spend 3 years in school and start with an average salary of 85k per year. If I do Whatcom's PTA program, I finish in 16 months and start with an average of 56k. Whatcom costs 14k plus living expenses, Touro perhaps upwards of 200k, with 70k minimum just in out of state tuition. With that factored in, over the next 35 years or so, I'd make 2.6 million as a PT, 2.05 as a PTA.
I would love the bragging rights of being a doctor. But I have to weigh that against being in debt up to my eyeballs, and the stress of potentially picking a lemon, unsupportive program.
So I got accepted to Whatcom Community College's PTA program which was a big relief. It's in my home state which means it'll cost much less. The problem is, I already have a Masters in Teaching (for all the good it did me), and as such my total combined FAFSA subsidized and subsidized are currently at around 43,000 not counting interest. The problem is, the PTA program is defined as an UNDERgraduate, and government loans cap out at 57,000. That's 14k for what's going to be an 18k per year program, and the program itself is 15 months long. I'm probably going to need around 25k total. Which isn't apocalyptic but still something to deal with.
I know there are worse fixes to be in since I can likely get a private loan since I have good credit, but still, I'm trying to stay a step ahead of financial aid which is still processing my initial FAFSA.
A bunch of scholarships through the school might be able to shave off of some of that: http://whatcom.edu/get-started/scholarships
Given your current education level, not sure how much of that can be subsidized.
How can you pay out of pocket each semester? Are there work-study opportunities with the school that you could use your teaching degree to get that might include a tuition waiver?
https://www.governmentjobs.com/careers/whatcomcc
Washington State pays well above the national average for PTA, which is good. Looks like the average entry pay is ~41k, which should make paying your debt off a bit quicker. Anything you can do now to try and mitigate that would be a great idea though. With how much you owe there isn't really getting around that you'll be paying that off for a long while.
https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/31-2021.00
The general complaints about Whatcom look to be the usual ones you see on every campus, and most review sites give it a B+ (which is pretty darn good for a CC). Seems like a solid institution.
What other sort of information are you thinking about?
The issue with a lot of those college scholarships is, I'm a single white guy under 60 with no kids, so that cuts things down substantially. In addition, because the program starts in the fall, many of those deadlines have expired for the year. I only found out I was accepted into the program three weeks ago.
I'm not sure if a tuition waiver would apply at all, but my financial councilor from my last school said it was a good idea to ask them for an exception. I checked the website and it seems that only applies for Seniors, WA state employees, etc.