Whats this about handing over ambassadors? Did I miss something in the last thread?
The "really interesting" deal that Putin proposed in Helsinki was to allow Mueller to interview the agents he indicted last Friday in exchange for the US sending to Russia persons of interest related to Magnitsky to face "justice." One of those is former Ambassador to Russia McCaul.
No. The deal was for Russia to “help us in our investigation”. It was 100% not to give us the indicted Russians.
The part about the indicted Russians was added later by the White House.
Every day im still surprised by the newest lows reached. At some point, you should reach the middle and actually dig up again technically, shouldn't you? But not.
I still get shocked by the absolutely brazen malice and incompetence of this foreign installed excuse for an administration obviously meant to topple America and destroy its future.
There's no more hiding, and not even any good attempts at gaslighting anymore.
Whats this about handing over ambassadors? Did I miss something in the last thread?
The "really interesting" deal that Putin proposed in Helsinki was to allow Mueller to interview the agents he indicted last Friday in exchange for the US sending to Russia persons of interest related to Magnitsky to face "justice." One of those is former Ambassador to Russia McCaul.
No. The deal was for Russia to “help us in our investigation”. It was 100% not to give us the indicted Russians.
The part about the indicted Russians was added later by the White House.
I think it was interview... in Russia. Putin was never going to give them to us. Well, actually he was never going to do any of it because it wasn't a serious proposal.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Based on screenshots posted by a former Playboy model in response to a Sun story about her sending topless photos and sexual messages to Guccifer 2.0 , the Russian hackers encouraged the Seth Rich conspiracy theory.
Wait, can we force private citizens to go to hostile foreign powers to be disappeared or worse?
I thought this was America?!
Yeah I'm under the impression that extradition requires treaties to do so and I dunno if we have one with Russia.
We have been doing extraordinary renditions for citizens of other countries for awhile for torture and execution, including at least citizens of allies. It is just that it is a pretty big step to start doing it to senior level former federal employees.
Whats this about handing over ambassadors? Did I miss something in the last thread?
The "really interesting" deal that Putin proposed in Helsinki was to allow Mueller to interview the agents he indicted last Friday in exchange for the US sending to Russia persons of interest related to Magnitsky to face "justice." One of those is former Ambassador to Russia McCaul.
No. The deal was for Russia to “help us in our investigation”. It was 100% not to give us the indicted Russians.
The part about the indicted Russians was added later by the White House.
I think it was interview... in Russia. Putin was never going to give them to us. Well, actually he was never going to do any of it because it wasn't a serious proposal.
The original translation I read made no mention of the 12 indicted people. But rather that “Russia would gladly cooperate with intelligence agencies to get to the bottom of it”. He was essentially suggesting that the FSB get direct access to our investigation in exchange for us giving him a US Ambassador.
Wait, can we force private citizens to go to hostile foreign powers to be disappeared or worse?
I thought this was America?!
I bolded the operative word.
It used to be. At least ostensibly. But with this chucklefuck in charge, and with McConnell fucking up the Senate (and Ryan trying and failing in the House), all the usual decorum and accepted traditions (like not extraditing former ambassadors) seem to be a thing of the past.
This isn't just on Trump, though he's by far the most egregious. Because he's too lazily ignorant to know this isn't something that should be done.
+3
Options
No-QuarterNothing To FearBut Fear ItselfRegistered Userregular
Based on screenshots posted by a former Playboy model in response to a Sun story about her sending topless photos and sexual messages to Guccifer 2.0 , the Russian hackers encouraged the Seth Rich conspiracy theory.
I'm going to take a wild guess that Putin's diplomatic immunity protects him from getting snagged by Mueller?
Most likely.
It'd likely follow with a formal declaration of war by Russia.
I can't imagine the international community at large would be too upset by someone doing it in this specific case though, as heinous as it would be to do something like that even once.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Every day im still surprised by the newest lows reached. At some point, you should reach the middle and actually dig up again technically, shouldn't you? But not.
I still get shocked by the absolutely brazen malice and incompetence of this foreign installed excuse for an administration obviously meant to topple America and destroy its future.
There's no more hiding, and not even any good attempts at gaslighting anymore.
We have reached the "I did it and it was awesome!" stage of the gaslighting.
So this just popped up my newsfeed - surrounded by all this hargle-bargle coming out of Helsinki, Trump has elected to invite Putin to the White House this fall, via an invite from his National Security Advisor.
And DNI Dan Coats found out...by CNN reporting on the invite while he was speaking on air.
He doesn't look that blindsided. He looks like he's taking it like it's a joke. "The White House tweeted" she says and he's already got his comedy face on, anticipating the joke. I can't read wtf he really thinks if he doesn't just think this is all hilarious.
Either way, it's basically another indication of the extent to which Trump does not understand anything but authoritarian rule. He doesn't do process, he simply thinks he says and so it happens. And his courtiers scramble to deal with it.
He doesn't look that blindsided. He looks like he's taking it like it's a joke. "The White House tweeted" she says and he's already got his comedy face on, anticipating the joke. I can't read wtf he really thinks if he doesn't just think this is all hilarious.
Either way, it's basically another indication of the extent to which Trump does not understand anything but authoritarian rule. He doesn't do process, he simply thinks he says and so it happens. And his courtiers scramble to deal with it.
I've worked in an environment before where the boss was an absolutely unstable moron who could be counted on to regularly do things which scaled somewhere between 'weird' and 'a federal crime' but who somehow avoided any serious consequences every single time. This is pretty much the sort of reaction we would have to any statement beginning with, "So this morning Marty..." and ending with "promised the client <something impossible>" or "claimed credit for all of our work" or, in one instance, "lied to the Air Force about his security clearance status so he could get into a meeting".
Once you've been pissed off, dumbfounded, shocked, horrified, and stressed the fuck out long enough the human response is to laugh because fuck it, what else are you going to do?
He can't very well go off on Trump on air. He probably can't even go off on Trump off-air. The best he can do, and what was probably formulating in his head while he tried to laugh and project confidence into the live TV cameras, is come up with a way to very sternly warn the President that this is a bad idea in a way that doesn't make Trump throw a tantrum.
PSN,Steam,Live | CptHamiltonian
+30
Options
SixCaches Tweets in the mainframe cyberhexRegistered Userregular
Trump continues to just do whatever he wants because there’s been no reason not to. There aren’t any consequences, so why would he change how he behaves?
Yes and frankly until trump gives a firm no we are not going to hand over former ambasadors over to russia every ambassador and foreign office worker should resign immediately because clearly it is not safe for them to be abroad with Trump as president.
Washington (CNN)The Senate approved a resolution to oppose sending US officials to be interrogated by Russian officials on Thursday, following a weeklong clash between congressional Republicans and the White House over the US relationship to Russia.
The 98-0 vote came after the White House announced it now disagreed with the proposal from Russian President Vladimir Putin.
The resolution expressed the sense of the Senate that no current or former diplomat, civil servant, law enforcement official, member of the armed forces or political appointee should be made available to Putin's government for an interrogation. The proposal was produced by Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, a New York Democrat.
EDIT: from that same article
The vote followed another one earlier Thursday, where a top Senate Republican leader blocked passage of a nonbinding bipartisan resolution -- proposed by another Republican senator -- backing the US intelligence community.
Yeah if McCaul goes over there for questioning he either isn't coming back or he's coming back after being "bigliest" enhanced interrogated.
The proper response from a president should have been to say with a giant smile "go fuck yourself. I know you speak english well enough to understand what I'm saying when I tell you ~yes you~ to go fuck yourself so go and do it, right over there in the corner and when you get done come back here and we'll try this again. No this isn't a polite suggestion it's me telling you to do it. Now."
He doesn't look that blindsided. He looks like he's taking it like it's a joke. "The White House tweeted" she says and he's already got his comedy face on, anticipating the joke. I can't read wtf he really thinks if he doesn't just think this is all hilarious.
Either way, it's basically another indication of the extent to which Trump does not understand anything but authoritarian rule. He doesn't do process, he simply thinks he says and so it happens. And his courtiers scramble to deal with it.
I've worked in an environment before where the boss was an absolutely unstable moron who could be counted on to regularly do things which scaled somewhere between 'weird' and 'a federal crime' but who somehow avoided any serious consequences every single time. This is pretty much the sort of reaction we would have to any statement beginning with, "So this morning Marty..." and ending with "promised the client <something impossible>" or "claimed credit for all of our work" or, in one instance, "lied to the Air Force about his security clearance status so he could get into a meeting".
Once you've been pissed off, dumbfounded, shocked, horrified, and stressed the fuck out long enough the human response is to laugh because fuck it, what else are you going to do?
He can't very well go off on Trump on air. He probably can't even go off on Trump off-air. The best he can do, and what was probably formulating in his head while he tried to laugh and project confidence into the live TV cameras, is come up with a way to very sternly warn the President that this is a bad idea in a way that doesn't make Trump throw a tantrum.
He's not desperation laughing. He's fucking mugging for the camera.
He's not some fucking professional you guys, he's a GOP congressman Trump shove into the position. Don't act like he's got integrity here.
shryke on
+3
Options
HakkekageSpace Whore Academysumma cum laudeRegistered Userregular
Guys it’s McFaul
3DS: 2165 - 6538 - 3417
NNID: Hakkekage
+7
Options
SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
He doesn't look that blindsided. He looks like he's taking it like it's a joke. "The White House tweeted" she says and he's already got his comedy face on, anticipating the joke. I can't read wtf he really thinks if he doesn't just think this is all hilarious.
Either way, it's basically another indication of the extent to which Trump does not understand anything but authoritarian rule. He doesn't do process, he simply thinks he says and so it happens. And his courtiers scramble to deal with it.
I've worked in an environment before where the boss was an absolutely unstable moron who could be counted on to regularly do things which scaled somewhere between 'weird' and 'a federal crime' but who somehow avoided any serious consequences every single time. This is pretty much the sort of reaction we would have to any statement beginning with, "So this morning Marty..." and ending with "promised the client <something impossible>" or "claimed credit for all of our work" or, in one instance, "lied to the Air Force about his security clearance status so he could get into a meeting".
Once you've been pissed off, dumbfounded, shocked, horrified, and stressed the fuck out long enough the human response is to laugh because fuck it, what else are you going to do?
He can't very well go off on Trump on air. He probably can't even go off on Trump off-air. The best he can do, and what was probably formulating in his head while he tried to laugh and project confidence into the live TV cameras, is come up with a way to very sternly warn the President that this is a bad idea in a way that doesn't make Trump throw a tantrum.
He's not desperation laughing. He's fucking mugging for the camera.
As a dentist, I'd say look at the way he grips the chair, taps his pinkies together, and starts bouncing his legs.
(I mean, he very well could be trying to smooth things over for the audience's benefit, but he seems rather discomforted by the news.)
((Also I mostly just wanted to say "as a dentist."))
Pardoning someone for a Russia-related crime is an enormous political risk for Trump. The only incentive he has to do it is if it will keep them from testifying against him, which isn't even a guarantee. And the more obvious it is that this was Trump's motivation for pardoning them, the worse it is for him politically.
I know at this point basically nothing will do it at this point, but pardoning an actual honest to god foreign spy might actually peel off some Republicans at least a little.
Pardoning Maria Butina wouldn't endanger anyone (she already made all her reports to her masters: they know everything she knows) and it'd make the Russian collusion even more undeniable than it already is. So not too scary.
It's worth noting that Putin's deal that Trump thought was "very interesting" wasn't to let Mueller indict anyone or even interview them himself. Mueller would be allowed to go to Russia and watch the Russians interview the indicted Russians. Putin never offered to send them to the US.
In exchange, Trump would arrest innocent American civilians and send them to Russia to be questioned by Russians. Also Mueller would go to Russia and hey who knows what would happen to him, he might get sick.
It seems like the Russians were just like "Holy shit, he's giving us everything, what else can we ask for? Lets go nuts!" mode
The only way i see trump getting away with a pardon on a know spy would be if Putin gave up something *huge;* we're talking full withdrawl from crimea Huge.
Putin won't do that though. One burnt spy in return for ensuring more chaos in the US? fucking bargain.
I know at this point basically nothing will do it at this point, but pardoning an actual honest to god foreign spy might actually peel off some Republicans at least a little.
Why?
Especially when it'd be framed as Trump taking on those libby liberals in the DOJ who are out of control and way overstepping their authority.
Everybody knows what's up. The only way that this Russia stuff actually hurts Trump (and thus would distance the GOP from him) is if his base cares about it, and so far, it appears the only thing they care about is whether or not Trump looks like what they think a badass looks like.
+2
Options
No-QuarterNothing To FearBut Fear ItselfRegistered Userregular
yeah, wrt a pardon for Butina, there's no real upside and plenty of downsides, so naturally, OF COURSE Trump will do it.
There's a vast realm of human reactions between yukyuk and violence.
Yeah, like nervous laughter.
I mean we obviously read it differently, but when he wants to just laugh about it like he's another powerless passenger on this shitty ride and not the Director of National Intelligence fucks to him.
Laughter, particularly nervous laughter, is often involuntary and all but impossible to control. Quit being a goose.
He might pardon Flynn, because Flynn is only going to be charged with lying and have a minimal sentence.
Once Manafort is found guilty of like, all of the crimes in the known universe, I don’t think he’ll pardon him. I think there will be too much there for him to spin a way out of even for Fox News,
0
Options
SixCaches Tweets in the mainframe cyberhexRegistered Userregular
Trump is not in a position to get anything of value from Putin, nor is he capable of doing it.
He might pardon Flynn, because Flynn is only going to be charged with lying and have a minimal sentence.
Once Manafort is found guilty of like, all of the crimes in the known universe, I don’t think he’ll pardon him. I think there will be too much there for him to spin a way out of even for Fox News,
Flynn is being charged with a minor crime as part of a plea agreement; if he doesn't fully co-operate with the investigation he and his son are straight fucked.
I know at this point basically nothing will do it at this point, but pardoning an actual honest to god foreign spy might actually peel off some Republicans at least a little.
Everybody knows what's up. The only way that this Russia stuff actually hurts Trump (and thus would distance the GOP from him) is if his base cares about it, and so far, it appears the only thing they care about is whether or not Trump looks like what they think a badass looks like.
I don't agree with this. There is certainly a hardened core of true-believers, but they are utterly dwarfed by the numbers of people who are either apathetic or simply half-informed.
Posts
No. The deal was for Russia to “help us in our investigation”. It was 100% not to give us the indicted Russians.
The part about the indicted Russians was added later by the White House.
I still get shocked by the absolutely brazen malice and incompetence of this foreign installed excuse for an administration obviously meant to topple America and destroy its future.
There's no more hiding, and not even any good attempts at gaslighting anymore.
I think it was interview... in Russia. Putin was never going to give them to us. Well, actually he was never going to do any of it because it wasn't a serious proposal.
Based on screenshots posted by a former Playboy model in response to a Sun story about her sending topless photos and sexual messages to Guccifer 2.0 , the Russian hackers encouraged the Seth Rich conspiracy theory.
I am not sure if what I just said made any sense or was just gibberish.
We have been doing extraordinary renditions for citizens of other countries for awhile for torture and execution, including at least citizens of allies. It is just that it is a pretty big step to start doing it to senior level former federal employees.
The original translation I read made no mention of the 12 indicted people. But rather that “Russia would gladly cooperate with intelligence agencies to get to the bottom of it”. He was essentially suggesting that the FSB get direct access to our investigation in exchange for us giving him a US Ambassador.
... I'll get the red twine.
It used to be. At least ostensibly. But with this chucklefuck in charge, and with McConnell fucking up the Senate (and Ryan trying and failing in the House), all the usual decorum and accepted traditions (like not extraditing former ambassadors) seem to be a thing of the past.
This isn't just on Trump, though he's by far the most egregious. Because he's too lazily ignorant to know this isn't something that should be done.
JFC Americans are really goddamn stupid.
Most likely.
It'd likely follow with a formal declaration of war by Russia.
I can't imagine the international community at large would be too upset by someone doing it in this specific case though, as heinous as it would be to do something like that even once.
We have reached the "I did it and it was awesome!" stage of the gaslighting.
I came as fast as I cou- oh.
NO COLLUSION
Steam: adamjnet
He doesn't look that blindsided. He looks like he's taking it like it's a joke. "The White House tweeted" she says and he's already got his comedy face on, anticipating the joke. I can't read wtf he really thinks if he doesn't just think this is all hilarious.
Either way, it's basically another indication of the extent to which Trump does not understand anything but authoritarian rule. He doesn't do process, he simply thinks he says and so it happens. And his courtiers scramble to deal with it.
I've worked in an environment before where the boss was an absolutely unstable moron who could be counted on to regularly do things which scaled somewhere between 'weird' and 'a federal crime' but who somehow avoided any serious consequences every single time. This is pretty much the sort of reaction we would have to any statement beginning with, "So this morning Marty..." and ending with "promised the client <something impossible>" or "claimed credit for all of our work" or, in one instance, "lied to the Air Force about his security clearance status so he could get into a meeting".
Once you've been pissed off, dumbfounded, shocked, horrified, and stressed the fuck out long enough the human response is to laugh because fuck it, what else are you going to do?
He can't very well go off on Trump on air. He probably can't even go off on Trump off-air. The best he can do, and what was probably formulating in his head while he tried to laugh and project confidence into the live TV cameras, is come up with a way to very sternly warn the President that this is a bad idea in a way that doesn't make Trump throw a tantrum.
Well, for what little it's worth: https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/19/politics/senate-votes-republicans-russia/index.html
EDIT: from that same article
Coates was Senator from Indiana until the 2016 election, he's not a professional except compared to Trump
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
The proper response from a president should have been to say with a giant smile "go fuck yourself. I know you speak english well enough to understand what I'm saying when I tell you ~yes you~ to go fuck yourself so go and do it, right over there in the corner and when you get done come back here and we'll try this again. No this isn't a polite suggestion it's me telling you to do it. Now."
He's not desperation laughing. He's fucking mugging for the camera.
He's not some fucking professional you guys, he's a GOP congressman Trump shove into the position. Don't act like he's got integrity here.
NNID: Hakkekage
(I mean, he very well could be trying to smooth things over for the audience's benefit, but he seems rather discomforted by the news.)
((Also I mostly just wanted to say "as a dentist."))
Here's a worrying thought, is Butina being charged with state, or federal level crimes? Could Trump theoretically pardon her if convicted?
In exchange, Trump would arrest innocent American civilians and send them to Russia to be questioned by Russians. Also Mueller would go to Russia and hey who knows what would happen to him, he might get sick.
It seems like the Russians were just like "Holy shit, he's giving us everything, what else can we ask for? Lets go nuts!" mode
Putin won't do that though. One burnt spy in return for ensuring more chaos in the US? fucking bargain.
Why?
Especially when it'd be framed as Trump taking on those libby liberals in the DOJ who are out of control and way overstepping their authority.
Everybody knows what's up. The only way that this Russia stuff actually hurts Trump (and thus would distance the GOP from him) is if his base cares about it, and so far, it appears the only thing they care about is whether or not Trump looks like what they think a badass looks like.
Laughter, particularly nervous laughter, is often involuntary and all but impossible to control. Quit being a goose.
Once Manafort is found guilty of like, all of the crimes in the known universe, I don’t think he’ll pardon him. I think there will be too much there for him to spin a way out of even for Fox News,
Flynn is being charged with a minor crime as part of a plea agreement; if he doesn't fully co-operate with the investigation he and his son are straight fucked.
It's definitely federal. Assistant Attorneys General made the announcement.
I don't agree with this. There is certainly a hardened core of true-believers, but they are utterly dwarfed by the numbers of people who are either apathetic or simply half-informed.