unfurling shadows, possession, festering wounds, wailing arrow, remorseless (hey i get to AA now!), life drain, deafening blast (really really needed to lock down and punish the malg/malth/whoever else got caught in it)
normally 13/16 are toss-ups depending on comps. cold embrace is still rock fucking solid, evasive fire/will of the forsaken are both excellent alternatives to life drain (but life drain would keep me sustained through malthael/nazeebo damage!), 20 is literally whatever you need and if you need nothing in particular just grab withering fire. 10 can be mind control if that'll prove better than wailing (good follow-up/insta-delete rather than needing to turn a teamfight)
for playstyle i'd walk up toss out W hit Q hit E then just haaaaang the fuck back. you kinda play her like a mage for the most part. auto if possible but don't if it'll get you killed. E has a gigantic fucking cast range to it so it's actually super fucking safe. you just play much further back than you normally do and immediately walk off after casting that E.
as far as "where are you seeing the higher winrate", QM bruh
Thank you for the write-up and build. That looks pretty interesting, and I have yet to try out Festering Wounds on new Sylvanas. I will have to give that build a shot the next time I play her (still focusing mainly on leveling up Orphea and Mal'ganis during the event).
Out of curiosity, why do you open with W rather than cast it as E is landing on the targets? Wouldn't it get you more Unfurling stacks if the target had 3 curses for the full duration rather than going a tick or two without?
I mean I always W first strictly out of habit and convenience, but with this build I wonder if it's not as optimal?
unfurling shadows, possession, festering wounds, wailing arrow, remorseless (hey i get to AA now!), life drain, deafening blast (really really needed to lock down and punish the malg/malth/whoever else got caught in it)
normally 13/16 are toss-ups depending on comps. cold embrace is still rock fucking solid, evasive fire/will of the forsaken are both excellent alternatives to life drain (but life drain would keep me sustained through malthael/nazeebo damage!), 20 is literally whatever you need and if you need nothing in particular just grab withering fire. 10 can be mind control if that'll prove better than wailing (good follow-up/insta-delete rather than needing to turn a teamfight)
for playstyle i'd walk up toss out W hit Q hit E then just haaaaang the fuck back. you kinda play her like a mage for the most part. auto if possible but don't if it'll get you killed. E has a gigantic fucking cast range to it so it's actually super fucking safe. you just play much further back than you normally do and immediately walk off after casting that E.
as far as "where are you seeing the higher winrate", QM bruh
Thank you for the write-up and build. That looks pretty interesting, and I have yet to try out Festering Wounds on new Sylvanas. I will have to give that build a shot the next time I play her (still focusing mainly on leveling up Orphea and Mal'ganis during the event).
Out of curiosity, why do you open with W rather than cast it as E is landing on the targets? Wouldn't it get you more Unfurling stacks if the target had 3 curses for the full duration rather than going a tick or two without?
I mean I always W first strictly out of habit and convenient, but with this build I wonder if it's not as optimal?
E first then W before the E lands is ideal yes but sometimes it's safer to do the opposite. you don't lose too much.
on the other hand if you fuck up the E>W (like casting W a smidge too late) then you miss the easy spread
edit: or sometimes you E first but then they immediately move out of range of the W cast range....... etc etc
as far as "where are you seeing the higher winrate", QM bruh
Oh, so it is! Although if you filter out the derp leagues, it's about the same as Barbed Shot. Lost Soul being low does agree with my experience, though, because my experience with New Sylvanas is that I do crazy damage when I'm actually able to basic attack but I get chunked easily unless I luck into a game with a big meat wall on my team or double support to carry my health bar or something. So I either feed a lot from trying to get all that auto attack synergy or I hang back and am ineffective.
unfurling shadows, possession, festering wounds, wailing arrow, remorseless (hey i get to AA now!), life drain, deafening blast (really really needed to lock down and punish the malg/malth/whoever else got caught in it)
normally 13/16 are toss-ups depending on comps. cold embrace is still rock fucking solid, evasive fire/will of the forsaken are both excellent alternatives to life drain (but life drain would keep me sustained through malthael/nazeebo damage!), 20 is literally whatever you need and if you need nothing in particular just grab withering fire. 10 can be mind control if that'll prove better than wailing (good follow-up/insta-delete rather than needing to turn a teamfight)
for playstyle i'd walk up toss out W hit Q hit E then just haaaaang the fuck back. you kinda play her like a mage for the most part. auto if possible but don't if it'll get you killed. E has a gigantic fucking cast range to it so it's actually super fucking safe. you just play much further back than you normally do and immediately walk off after casting that E.
as far as "where are you seeing the higher winrate", QM bruh
Thank you for the write-up and build. That looks pretty interesting, and I have yet to try out Festering Wounds on new Sylvanas. I will have to give that build a shot the next time I play her (still focusing mainly on leveling up Orphea and Mal'ganis during the event).
Out of curiosity, why do you open with W rather than cast it as E is landing on the targets? Wouldn't it get you more Unfurling stacks if the target had 3 curses for the full duration rather than going a tick or two without?
I mean I always W first strictly out of habit and convenient, but with this build I wonder if it's not as optimal?
E first then W before the E lands is ideal yes but sometimes it's safer to do the opposite. you don't lose too much.
on the other hand if you fuck up the E>W (like casting W a smidge too late) then you miss the easy spread
Oh wow. The E spreads the W? I'm an idiot I guess since I never actually read the new description. For some reason I thought it was just basic attacks that spread it. I guess Q would work as well, though.
I think I literally haven't used E as an offensive damage ability once since her rework. Only for fleeing or diving for a kill.
I mean to be fair I've only gained one level on her since the rework.
forty on
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Sylvanas's trait and talents are kind of convoluted unless you really read the details. I had to spend a good 10 minutes in Try Mode reading the descriptions and testing stuff out to be absolutely certain on some of the interactions.
The big two things to keep in mind:
Banshee's Curse, her trait, ONLY applies when you land auto attacks.
There are talents, like Festering Wounds, which can upgrade abilities to also apply Banshee's Curse, but abilities do not do so by default.
I was also confused early on by Unfurling Shadows, the Level 1 W quest. Which reads as follows: ❢ Quest: Each time an enemy Hero with 3 stacks of Banshee's Curse is hit by Shadow Dagger, its damage is permanently increased by 0.5%.
Note you don't have to directly land the W on the hero to get quest stacks - the W spread also counts. As long as that hero has 3 stacks of Banshee's Curse, you will get quest procs.
In addition, Shadow Dagger spreads when Sylvanas does any damage to the enemy once W lands. This means the quest stacking actually works in more cases than just AAing a single target 3 times, putting W directly on them, and then AAing them again. For example:
You get 3 stacks of Banshee's Curse on Genji by hitting him with a Haunted Wave (E) that was talented by Festering Wounds ("Haunted Wave applies 3 stacks of Banshee's Curse")
Genji jumps out of your Shadow Dagger range, but Diablo is right in front of him
You put Shadow Dagger on Diablo, then attack him with Withering Fire (Q)
The Shadow Dagger spreads to Genji, who still has 3 stacks of Banshee's Curse on him
You hear "ding ding ding ding" from a bunch of quest stacks because Genji had Shadow Dagger put on him while he had 3 stacks of Banshee's Curse up
I think the big question is what is the tick rate of Shadow Dagger? i.e., what is the most Unfurling stacks you can gain from a Shadow Dagger on a single target? I believe the ability lasts 2.5 seconds. Does it tick 2 times a second or 4?
I believe I tested out the level 7 E->W combo and got 6 stacks per combo, or 3% damage bonus on a single target. Could be wrong though, it was a while ago.
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I was also confused early on by Unfurling Shadows, the Level 1 W quest. Which reads as follows: ❢ Quest: Each time an enemy Hero with 3 stacks of Banshee's Curse is hit by Shadow Dagger, its damage is permanently increased by 0.5%.
The first time I was playing Reworked Sylv I read that talent and thought "wait so you only get 0.5% per cast? that's garbage"
I did not realize it meant, yknow, each time it ticks off.
Yeah, I really want to try your W/E build now. I can't imagine taking anything other than Remorseless at 13, though. The whole point of this build is to be able to play more safely at range. I'd only take Cold Embrace with Lost Soul or some other build/comp where I expect to be able to safely attack from 5.5 range more regularly.
forty on
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Festering Wounds is a huge power spike for Sylvanas if you are comfortable with your positioning to use E offensively. It multiplies your quest stacking rate significantly because you can just E on the enemy team, throw out a W, hit something and walk away with a dozen+ stacks.
We’re reducing the range on hook because getting hooked from nowhere is stupid.
But we are also buffing fishing hook so it’s the same.
Because blizzard.
But it is a little shorter.
forty on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
We’re reducing the range on hook because getting hooked from nowhere is stupid.
But we are also buffing fishing hook so it’s the same.
Because blizzard.
But it is a little shorter.
Until you get the fishing hook talent, then it is slightly longer than the old talented version was.
Except now that the range feels too short untalented and since there isn’t much else to get in that tier, EVERYONE chooses that talent now. As opposed to before, when like, one I’m five did.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Imperius looks pretty cool, but I doubt I'll pick him up until he drops to 10k just because I'm having a lot of fun on Malthael and, frankly, I think Malth is going to eat Imperius alive in the offlane. Also, there are definitely a few issues I have with his kit, which are mostly related to the fact that he's intended to be played in the offlane position (from the ability reveal:"with great sustain and dueling capabilities, Imperius excels as a solo laner"). Imperius has serious mana issues, for example, which inhibit his ability to hold his own for extended periods of time. He also has absolutely atrocious waveclear, at least until he picks up the activatable cleave talent at level 7, but even then it's super awkward to use in practice because it doesn't start cooling down until you've finished your fourth swing, meaning you can get stuck with 1 charge and have to find something to attack to get it back again. Most offlane Bruisers (let's just say Dehaka, Sonya, Malthael) will literally just clear the wave and move on. Imperius might be able to put some damage on them in the process, but they'll just heal it back up (Dehaka's trait, Sonya's Whirlwind / War Paint, Malthael's Soul Rip, etc) while rotating to the next lane, leaving Imperius stuck there to deal with the wave. Even worse, let's say Malthael or Thrall or Sonya or whoever he's against go and take a camp with all of that spare time they have after the wave clear -- at that point, Imperius is super fucked.
In my opinion, he could maybe do with a reduction in mana costs, and his level 7 activatable cleave should either be baselined, or every X number of attacks should auto-cleave, like Leoric's.
We’re reducing the range on hook because getting hooked from nowhere is stupid.
But we are also buffing fishing hook so it’s the same.
Because blizzard.
But it is a little shorter.
Until you get the fishing hook talent, then it is slightly longer than the old talented version was.
Except now that the range feels too short untalented and since there isn’t much else to get in that tier, EVERYONE chooses that talent now. As opposed to before, when like, one I’m five did.
incorrect, it's actually not a buff. it is slightly less than it used to be. the base hook range went from 12.5 to 11 and fishing hook went from 40% to 50% to compensate that loss, but it is still shorter than the old range.
old fishing hook range = 17.5
new fishing hook range = 16.5
also "there isn't much else to get in that tier. everyone chooses it now" hi pulverize?? that shit's incredible. i find myself wanting that over fishing hook way more often because you can just lead with slam and get a free hook anyway!
(anyway the bigger problem is that they simply left the damn thing in aaaaaaaa)
Imperius looks pretty cool, but I doubt I'll pick him up until he drops to 10k just because I'm having a lot of fun on Malthael and, frankly, I think Malth is going to eat Imperius alive in the offlane. Also, there are definitely a few issues I have with his kit, which are mostly related to the fact that he's intended to be played in the offlane position (from the ability reveal:"with great sustain and dueling capabilities, Imperius excels as a solo laner"). Imperius has serious mana issues, for example, which inhibit his ability to hold his own for extended periods of time. He also has absolutely atrocious waveclear, at least until he picks up the activatable cleave talent at level 7, but even then it's super awkward to use in practice because it doesn't start cooling down until you've finished your fourth swing, meaning you can get stuck with 1 charge and have to find something to attack to get it back again. Most offlane Bruisers (let's just say Dehaka, Sonya, Malthael) will literally just clear the wave and move on. Imperius might be able to put some damage on them in the process, but they'll just heal it back up (Dehaka's trait, Sonya's Whirlwind / War Paint, Malthael's Soul Rip, etc) while rotating to the next lane, leaving Imperius stuck there to deal with the wave. Even worse, let's say Malthael or Thrall or Sonya or whoever he's against go and take a camp with all of that spare time they have after the wave clear -- at that point, Imperius is super fucked.
In my opinion, he could maybe do with a reduction in mana costs, and his level 7 activatable cleave should either be baselined, or every X number of attacks should auto-cleave, like Leoric's.
i mean it wouldn't be the first time blizzard was wrong about a hero's "intended' role. they pegged blaze and yrel as maintanks but they're not anything near that. garrosh was pegged as a maintank and it wasn't until MUCH much later and rejiggering his abilities that he actually became that.
so if imperius isn't actually meant to be a solo-laner then so be it. he'll just be a normal bruiser then, an off-tank. he's still got very good engage/initiation and his kit allows him to really stay in the thick of things while fuckin' dudes up.
i mean it wouldn't be the first time blizzard was wrong about a hero's "intended' role. they pegged blaze and yrel as maintanks but they're not anything near that. garrosh was pegged as a maintank and it wasn't until MUCH much later and rejiggering his abilities that he actually became that.
so if imperius isn't actually meant to be a solo-laner then so be it. he'll just be a normal bruiser then, an off-tank. he's still got very good engage/initiation and his kit allows him to really stay in the thick of things while fuckin' dudes up.
Okay but, here's the thing: what's his role other than offlane? His strong self-sustain won't be useful in the 4stack, since he'll have access to a healer. His strong dueling capability won't be super beneficial, either. He's got good enough pick-off potential, but so do a lot of folks, and they typically also have waveclear, which helps their 4stack keep up rotational advantage. I guess I think of him a lot like Artanis -- great duelist, pretty awesome self-sustain when he's got high up-time on his target, good pick-off potential, etc. The difference is that Artanis is a PvE machine, often seeing pickups in maps like Battlefield of Eternity, where the offlane isn't so much about waveclear as it is about staying alive and then burning the immortal. Imperius just ... doesn't fill that role?
Don't get me wrong, dude looks cool. I just don't know what he's supposed to do.
i mean it wouldn't be the first time blizzard was wrong about a hero's "intended' role. they pegged blaze and yrel as maintanks but they're not anything near that. garrosh was pegged as a maintank and it wasn't until MUCH much later and rejiggering his abilities that he actually became that.
so if imperius isn't actually meant to be a solo-laner then so be it. he'll just be a normal bruiser then, an off-tank. he's still got very good engage/initiation and his kit allows him to really stay in the thick of things while fuckin' dudes up.
Okay but, here's the thing: what's his role other than offlane? His strong self-sustain won't be useful in the 4stack, since he'll have access to a healer. His strong dueling capability won't be super beneficial, either. He's got good enough pick-off potential, but so do a lot of folks, and they typically also have waveclear, which helps their 4stack keep up rotational advantage. I guess I think of him a lot like Artanis -- great duelist, pretty awesome self-sustain when he's got high up-time on his target, good pick-off potential, etc. The difference is that Artanis is a PvE machine, often seeing pickups in maps like Battlefield of Eternity, where the offlane isn't so much about waveclear as it is about staying alive and then burning the immortal. Imperius just ... doesn't fill that role?
Don't get me wrong, dude looks cool. I just don't know what he's supposed to do.
He seems almost like a beefy kerrigan, he has the same long aa range and can setup for a blow up comp. But yes you'd then want to shift some extra waveclear to the 4 stack, and possibly less need for healing?
Wave clear has been the thing they've gotten wrong with the last couple bruisers and have patched up
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
the "in winning games" horseshit on these quests is so fucking stupid.
great i lose multiple games in a row for free because i get colossal morons on my team, hooray wasted time. it just makes me bitter and hate all my teammates. why on earth they thought this shit was a good idea astounds me.
Bro I slam out vs AI matches when nobody else is online so that I can burn through those special event quests. Let's be honest, right? I'm not gonna play anything but fucking Malthael when I'm playing online with a group now anyway, so I'm never going to get those Support and Warrior quests knocked out if I don't do the AI games. I'm on my 6th time around the board at this point, I think.
I love it when a Varian is matched as the tank and just goes twin blades blindly. Call him on it and he's all "I went sustain". Fucking hell no you didn't, you built for RAWR IMA KILL YOU and are just walking into a pile of stuns while they have Valeera jumping us with impunity because YOU DONT HAVE FUCKING TAUNT.
Man FUCK my teammates. Don't listen to pings, die all game, punching Garrosh into the backline. Just....ARRRGGH!!!
I feel if I don't tank, we lose to shit engagements. But if I don't assassin, there's no follow up. And forget getting camps on time or at logical points.
I loathe being in Bronze. Why am I here?! Can I just pay someone to get back to Silver or Gold? I mean sure, if I think I'm better than this, I should be able to hyper carry the team, but FUCK do this fuckers not understand basic fundamentals. JESUS, I'm doing 90% of the work for you. Just go back when you get a retreat ping. IT AIN'T THAT FUCKING HARD!!!!!
FUCK!
FUCK!!
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I hated my team on blackheart bay last night. Something about that map just gets people just roaming around aimlessly instead of ever pushing for the win. Great you got those coins from mercing, and then you dove into the teamfight and lost them all by dying. The game drags on for awhile, their center lane losses all of its structures, and we hit 20 and I take Artanis's "Target Purified" talent and literally wipe the whole enemy team (bot match, so not really a significant accomplishment, but still). Do we push in to the core for the win? No. The team dicks around for another ten minutes before I finally solo the boss and push the core alone.
I really dislike blackheart bay, so I just get upset if we stay on the map too long. It's USUALLY a quick map though between the team pushing, all of the mercs, and the bombardment. I was just fucking done after being trapped their for half an hour.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Sorry I had to step out, I am starting to feel really nauseous, my hands have broken out in weird blisters, and my lips are cracked and blistered. Dunno what's going on with my body atm.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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Out of curiosity, why do you open with W rather than cast it as E is landing on the targets? Wouldn't it get you more Unfurling stacks if the target had 3 curses for the full duration rather than going a tick or two without?
I mean I always W first strictly out of habit and convenience, but with this build I wonder if it's not as optimal?
E first then W before the E lands is ideal yes but sometimes it's safer to do the opposite. you don't lose too much.
on the other hand if you fuck up the E>W (like casting W a smidge too late) then you miss the easy spread
edit: or sometimes you E first but then they immediately move out of range of the W cast range....... etc etc
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
I think I literally haven't used E as an offensive damage ability once since her rework. Only for fleeing or diving for a kill.
I mean to be fair I've only gained one level on her since the rework.
The big two things to keep in mind:
I was also confused early on by Unfurling Shadows, the Level 1 W quest. Which reads as follows:
❢ Quest: Each time an enemy Hero with 3 stacks of Banshee's Curse is hit by Shadow Dagger, its damage is permanently increased by 0.5%.
Note you don't have to directly land the W on the hero to get quest stacks - the W spread also counts. As long as that hero has 3 stacks of Banshee's Curse, you will get quest procs.
In addition, Shadow Dagger spreads when Sylvanas does any damage to the enemy once W lands. This means the quest stacking actually works in more cases than just AAing a single target 3 times, putting W directly on them, and then AAing them again. For example:
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The first time I was playing Reworked Sylv I read that talent and thought "wait so you only get 0.5% per cast? that's garbage"
I did not realize it meant, yknow, each time it ticks off.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
But we are also buffing fishing hook so it’s the same.
Because blizzard.
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
Until you get the fishing hook talent, then it is slightly longer than the old talented version was.
Except now that the range feels too short untalented and since there isn’t much else to get in that tier, EVERYONE chooses that talent now. As opposed to before, when like, one I’m five did.
In my opinion, he could maybe do with a reduction in mana costs, and his level 7 activatable cleave should either be baselined, or every X number of attacks should auto-cleave, like Leoric's.
incorrect, it's actually not a buff. it is slightly less than it used to be. the base hook range went from 12.5 to 11 and fishing hook went from 40% to 50% to compensate that loss, but it is still shorter than the old range.
old fishing hook range = 17.5
new fishing hook range = 16.5
also "there isn't much else to get in that tier. everyone chooses it now" hi pulverize?? that shit's incredible. i find myself wanting that over fishing hook way more often because you can just lead with slam and get a free hook anyway!
(anyway the bigger problem is that they simply left the damn thing in aaaaaaaa)
i mean it wouldn't be the first time blizzard was wrong about a hero's "intended' role. they pegged blaze and yrel as maintanks but they're not anything near that. garrosh was pegged as a maintank and it wasn't until MUCH much later and rejiggering his abilities that he actually became that.
so if imperius isn't actually meant to be a solo-laner then so be it. he'll just be a normal bruiser then, an off-tank. he's still got very good engage/initiation and his kit allows him to really stay in the thick of things while fuckin' dudes up.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Okay but, here's the thing: what's his role other than offlane? His strong self-sustain won't be useful in the 4stack, since he'll have access to a healer. His strong dueling capability won't be super beneficial, either. He's got good enough pick-off potential, but so do a lot of folks, and they typically also have waveclear, which helps their 4stack keep up rotational advantage. I guess I think of him a lot like Artanis -- great duelist, pretty awesome self-sustain when he's got high up-time on his target, good pick-off potential, etc. The difference is that Artanis is a PvE machine, often seeing pickups in maps like Battlefield of Eternity, where the offlane isn't so much about waveclear as it is about staying alive and then burning the immortal. Imperius just ... doesn't fill that role?
Don't get me wrong, dude looks cool. I just don't know what he's supposed to do.
I will once the wife gets out of bed and the little one takes his nap. So in 30 minutes or so?
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He seems almost like a beefy kerrigan, he has the same long aa range and can setup for a blow up comp. But yes you'd then want to shift some extra waveclear to the 4 stack, and possibly less need for healing?
Wave clear has been the thing they've gotten wrong with the last couple bruisers and have patched up
Arrogant Nephilim game is being casted in an hour!
And what's that? It's happening in minutes!? At the main Heroes Lounge stream!? And it would be cool if everyone could watch!? Wow!
/subtlety
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great i lose multiple games in a row for free because i get colossal morons on my team, hooray wasted time. it just makes me bitter and hate all my teammates. why on earth they thought this shit was a good idea astounds me.
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Great, I've been getting 1s and 2s so now I know who to blame
Thanks for stealing my juju fam
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Y'all motherfuckers need RNJesus
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Get on HotS
I feel if I don't tank, we lose to shit engagements. But if I don't assassin, there's no follow up. And forget getting camps on time or at logical points.
I loathe being in Bronze. Why am I here?! Can I just pay someone to get back to Silver or Gold? I mean sure, if I think I'm better than this, I should be able to hyper carry the team, but FUCK do this fuckers not understand basic fundamentals. JESUS, I'm doing 90% of the work for you. Just go back when you get a retreat ping. IT AIN'T THAT FUCKING HARD!!!!!
FUCK!
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I really dislike blackheart bay, so I just get upset if we stay on the map too long. It's USUALLY a quick map though between the team pushing, all of the mercs, and the bombardment. I was just fucking done after being trapped their for half an hour.
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
:winky:
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582