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Let's Talk About [2020 Elections] Like Grownups!

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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    Three Big Senate races with debates tonight:

    Montana: Bullock v. Daines -- Moderators: @MontanaPBS's John Twiggs & Anna Rau

    Iowa: Greenfield v. Ernst -- Moderators: @okayhenderson @CaroRCummings @DavidYepsen

    Maine: Gideon v. Collins -- Moderators: @WABI_TV5
    & @wagmtv8
    Nbc reporter

    Just in case tomorrow's isn't enough for you

    I hope Collins and her "concerns" get nailed to the wall.

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    GyralGyral Registered User regular
    Both Stephen King and his son Joe Hill have been making public videos to vote against Collins. Not that I think they'll move the needle, but I find it funny that it needs to happen.

    25t9pjnmqicf.jpg
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    DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    I thought that was going to be behind closed doors, so likely the public isn't going to learn anything from it.

    Yeah. But the day Eric Trump is behind closed doors talking about potential real estate fraud I Expect the media to see that as a fun story to focus on and tie these returns to

    there’s a reason the gop wanted hunter in to testify, it’s bad optics to even have that happening even if nothing comes out of it

    616610-1.png
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited September 2020
    PantsB wrote: »
    Three Big Senate races with debates tonight:

    Montana: Bullock v. Daines -- Moderators: @MontanaPBS's John Twiggs & Anna Rau

    Iowa: Greenfield v. Ernst -- Moderators: @okayhenderson @CaroRCummings @DavidYepsen

    Maine: Gideon v. Collins -- Moderators: @WABI_TV5
    & @wagmtv8
    Nbc reporter

    Just in case tomorrow's isn't enough for you

    Wait, does that mean these are scheduled the same night as the Presidential debates?

    EDIT: Oh wait, tonight. So the day before. NM.

    shryke on
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    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Gyral wrote: »
    Both Stephen King and his son Joe Hill have been making public videos to vote against Collins. Not that I think they'll move the needle, but I find it funny that it needs to happen.

    Stephen King has been a VERY vocal anti-Trump and Collins celebrity for a long time now.

    The celebrity that I enjoyed fucking GOING OFF on twitter (after having a generally crafted "safe" persona) was Jim Gaffigan, after the RNC. Including saying "fuck" repeatedly.

    Speaking of which, he retweeted this, which is 100% the right angle to go on the hair deduction:

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    spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    I feel like what's being ignored in the discussion of why pull out of Ohio is that election laws don't matter - you KNOW they're coordinating with PACs.

    If a bunch of PACs said "hey, we got this" and are dumping a ton in Ohio, what's the functional difference?

    also it doesn't matter if you "spend in Ohio" when you're spending on targeted ads to Ohioans through social media.

    This whole thing about who's spending where is land line polling all over again. It matters to the people who don't understand how targeted internet ads in 2020 work.

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    AbsalonAbsalon Lands of Always WinterRegistered User regular
    Nate Cohn. polling and such at NYT.

    "Biden leads Trump in Pennsylvania, 49 to 40 percent among likely voters, in a new Times/Siena poll"
    That's what we like to see. ABC/WaPo at Midnight.

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular

    Biden leads Trump in Pennsylvania, 49 to 40 percent among likely voters, in a new Times/Siena poll


    Nate Cohn is a new york times stat guy.

    This feels like an outlier, but I want to believe.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    vsovevsove ....also yes. Registered User regular
    I think 2016 traumatized me enough that I look at any poll that's good news and automatically assume it's wrong.

    My heart won't let me hope again.

    WATCH THIS SPACE.
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    ChanusChanus Harbinger of the Spicy Rooster Apocalypse The Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered User regular
    edited September 2020
    the polls weren't necessarily wrong in 2016

    the results were within the margin of error, the swing just happened to be in Trump's favor in states where that wasn't expected

    i really wish the bad polling narrative would die in a fire

    Chanus on
    Allegedly a voice of reason.
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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Gyral wrote: »
    Both Stephen King and his son Joe Hill have been making public videos to vote against Collins. Not that I think they'll move the needle, but I find it funny that it needs to happen.

    Stephen King has been a VERY vocal anti-Trump and Collins celebrity for a long time now.

    The celebrity that I enjoyed fucking GOING OFF on twitter (after having a generally crafted "safe" persona) was Jim Gaffigan, after the RNC. Including saying "fuck" repeatedly.

    Speaking of which, he retweeted this, which is 100% the right angle to go on the hair deduction:


    I think it always bears mention that the allowable amount he could deduct for said hair styling was zero. The amount would be absurd and worthy of mockery if it was legal, but it's even more so given that it's not.

    I want to know who prepared his taxes, as well, because you know he didn't do this himself.

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    vsovevsove ....also yes. Registered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    the polls weren't necessarily wrong in 2016

    the results were within the margin of error, the swing just happened to be in Trump's favor in states where that wasn't expected

    i really wish the bad polling narrative would die in a fire

    This is not me attacking the integrity of the 2016 polling.

    I'm well aware of the accuracy of the polling, and what actually ended up happening in the end.

    But at this point Biden could be leading by 20 points in every state and I will still refuse to believe he's going to win until he's actually inaugurated, because 'hope for the best, plan for the worst' is kind of my default now.

    WATCH THIS SPACE.
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    zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    I have to assume it's a good thing that the best counter drop they had to the tax story is that Project Veritas fake nothing about Omar.

    Access Hollywood got blunted by the DNC email hack release, but other than going on about drug testing it seems like this tax story is just...unopposed? No real distraction or counternarrative.

    That means they are either holding back an oppo dump for a potentially even bigger story that is going to break, or they got nothing.

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    vsove wrote: »
    I think 2016 traumatized me enough that I look at any poll that's good news and automatically assume it's wrong.

    My heart won't let me hope again.

    This is less 2016 for me, and more this is an actual outlier to recent polls which has been low single digits for Biden.

    I mean him being +9 should be where he was at considering he's from Scranton, but he hasn't been there all summer best of my knowledge.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    vsove wrote: »
    I think 2016 traumatized me enough that I look at any poll that's good news and automatically assume it's wrong.

    My heart won't let me hope again.

    This is less 2016 for me, and more this is an actual outlier to recent polls which has been low single digits for Biden.

    I mean him being +9 should be where he was at considering he's from Scranton, but he hasn't been there all summer best of my knowledge.

    He held a town hall in Scranton with Anderson Cooper less than two weeks ago.

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    vsove wrote: »
    I think 2016 traumatized me enough that I look at any poll that's good news and automatically assume it's wrong.

    My heart won't let me hope again.

    This is less 2016 for me, and more this is an actual outlier to recent polls which has been low single digits for Biden.

    I mean him being +9 should be where he was at considering he's from Scranton, but he hasn't been there all summer best of my knowledge.

    He held a town hall in Scranton with Anderson Cooper less than two weeks ago.

    I meant he hasn't been +9 all summer, not physically in Scranton.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    ChanusChanus Harbinger of the Spicy Rooster Apocalypse The Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered User regular
    i don't really know that home state advantage matters all that much anymore

    i mean trump is from new york

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
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    DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    Guys I won’t say this again... Scranton is not a real place. The office wasn’t a real documentary...

    But in all seriousness while home state doesn’t matter much Biden’s whole schtick is designed to appeal to them so he should be doing better

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    MillMill Registered User regular
    On the issue of Super PACs stepping in to fill the void left by the Trump campaign. The question is, can they effectively fill the gap that exists. IIRC actual campaigns end up spending less for the same ad buys than Super PACs. So the issue with Super PACs, is that even if they step up, if they do have to spend more on buying the same ad stuff, then they need to have more money in order to make up for any gaps. I'm pretty sure that they are a less efficient way to advertise. Yes, they can get unlimited money and are absolute bullshit, but that advantage is blunted if they cost more to run. I also want to say, that a number of typical conservative donors have been reluctant to chip in any money to get Trump re-elected.

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    TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    i don't really know that home state advantage matters all that much anymore

    i mean trump is from new york

    Home state just means they know you better, so you get higher name recognition, a better understanding of your general politics, and it makes it easier to use the "I know what you need better than the other guy" pitch.

    By all accounts, the better you know Trump, the less you like him and think he should be President, and he has no politics to speak of beyond "Vote for Trump" and he absolutely does not care about anybody other than himself. His pitch was always "Yay Trump, Trump is awesome, Trump is a Billionaire!"

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    CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    edited September 2020
    The concept of home state advantage swinging the result feels like a holdover from when politicians campaigned by throwing parties with free beer.

    Coinage on
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    DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Coinage wrote: »
    Home state advantage swinging a state feels like a holdover from when politicians campaigned by throwing parties with free beer

    Well usually the person running has held executive or federal office in their state meaning they were popular enough there to win an election and that shouldn't change for a presidential run.

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    I like to ART
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Coinage wrote: »
    The concept of home state advantage swinging the result feels like a holdover from when politicians campaigned by throwing parties with free beer.

    I think it's more a holdover from when races weren't nationalized. Favourite Sons used to be a thing only like 60-70 years ago.

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    ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited September 2020
    zagdrob wrote: »
    I have to assume it's a good thing that the best counter drop they had to the tax story is that Project Veritas fake nothing about Omar.

    In case anybody has any friends or family who are JUST ASKING QUESTIONS or whatever about this, since I did a quick lookup of what they were alleging and the like:

    The thing that they're alleging is that Omar's campaign was helping people return ballots in the primary. That's totally legal though. As in Minnesota had a law specifically against it, it was overturned early this year by their courts, and then upheld on appeal. You can find it here. The thing that they documented is totally legal. The things they HAVEN'T documented, like bribing people to vote a particular way, are not documented in any way, and are just a dude in a dark room who is totally 100% not James O'Keefe saying that they were doing illegal stuff.

    So in summation, they've thoroughly documented her staff doing something completely legal, and are using that to make baseless claims of illegality. You know, the usual.

    ArcTangent on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    zagdrob wrote: »
    I have to assume it's a good thing that the best counter drop they had to the tax story is that Project Veritas fake nothing about Omar.

    In case anybody has any friends or family who are JUST ASKING QUESTIONS or whatever about this, since I did a quick lookup of what they were alleging and the like:

    The thing that they're alleging is that Omar's campaign was helping people return ballots in the primary. That's totally legal though. As in Minnesota had a law specifically against it, it was overturned early this year by their courts, and then upheld on appeal. You can find it here. The thing that they documented is totally legal. The things they HAVEN'T documented, like bribing people to vote a particular way, are not documented in any way, and are just a dude in a dark room who is totally 100% not James O'Keefe saying that they were doing illegal stuff.

    So in summation, they've thoroughly documented her staff doing something completely legal, and are using that to make baseless claims of illegality. You know, the usual.

    Yeah its banking on people hearing about a law outlawing it, but not reading that particular law is in dispute and currently under court order not to be enforced.

    So the usual project varitas bullshit.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    I have to assume it's a good thing that the best counter drop they had to the tax story is that Project Veritas fake nothing about Omar.

    Access Hollywood got blunted by the DNC email hack release, but other than going on about drug testing it seems like this tax story is just...unopposed? No real distraction or counternarrative.

    That means they are either holding back an oppo dump for a potentially even bigger story that is going to break, or they got nothing.

    Barr is going to have a statement or some such about an "investigation" before October is done with. I consider this a reasonable prediction.

    My nihilist prediction is they are gearing up to arrest Biden. It's extremely unlikely, but I would not be surprised to find out Trump or a crony have mentioned it.

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    Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    edited September 2020
    So in summation, they've thoroughly documented her staff doing something completely legal, and are using that to make baseless claims of illegality. You know, the usual.

    There's also a video floating around of Devin Nunes on Fox News bluntly talking about how ballot harvesting, which is the same thing Ilhan is being accused of, is the only way Republicans can win in CA.

    Dark_Side on
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    Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    Coinage wrote: »
    The concept of home state advantage swinging the result feels like a holdover from when politicians campaigned by throwing parties with free beer.

    God I wish people tried to buy my votes with free beer in this economy.

    JUST SEND ME ALCOHOL

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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Dogfish Head for everyone

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    spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Nobeard wrote: »
    zagdrob wrote: »
    I have to assume it's a good thing that the best counter drop they had to the tax story is that Project Veritas fake nothing about Omar.

    Access Hollywood got blunted by the DNC email hack release, but other than going on about drug testing it seems like this tax story is just...unopposed? No real distraction or counternarrative.

    That means they are either holding back an oppo dump for a potentially even bigger story that is going to break, or they got nothing.

    Barr is going to have a statement or some such about an "investigation" before October is done with. I consider this a reasonable prediction.

    My nihilist prediction is they are gearing up to arrest Biden. It's extremely unlikely, but I would not be surprised to find out Trump or a crony have mentioned it.

    indicting Hunter is not out of the realm of the possible

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    zagdrob wrote: »
    I have to assume it's a good thing that the best counter drop they had to the tax story is that Project Veritas fake nothing about Omar.

    Access Hollywood got blunted by the DNC email hack release, but other than going on about drug testing it seems like this tax story is just...unopposed? No real distraction or counternarrative.

    That means they are either holding back an oppo dump for a potentially even bigger story that is going to break, or they got nothing.

    Barr is going to have a statement or some such about an "investigation" before October is done with. I consider this a reasonable prediction.

    My nihilist prediction is they are gearing up to arrest Biden. It's extremely unlikely, but I would not be surprised to find out Trump or a crony have mentioned it.

    indicting Hunter is not out of the realm of the possible

    I feel doing that is a rubicon Trump doesn't want. Like you normalize arresting your opponents kids you blow away the media's argument about the Biden going after the Trump family malfeaseance.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    Special KSpecial K Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    I feel doing that is a rubicon Trump doesn't want. Like you normalize arresting your opponents kids you blow away the media's argument about the Biden going after the Trump family malfeaseance.

    I think he does want it - democrats and the media squeal about how awful it is that politically motivated prosecution is taking place etc etc, but the damage is done, politically.

    And the secondary effects? If and when the prosecutors come for his own kids, he can then point to those same arguments, even if his own kids are clearly guilty. Helps him muddy the water rather well.

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    ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Ivanka, Eric, and Trump Jr.: "Wait, we're doing what now?"

    (bonus points of course due to them actually likely having done illegal or at least questionably legal things, yes I'm hedging here, I'm sure there's plenty of evidence, but until they're convicted I'm following WAPO with boilerplate disclaimers before the pedants descend upon me)

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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    spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    zagdrob wrote: »
    I have to assume it's a good thing that the best counter drop they had to the tax story is that Project Veritas fake nothing about Omar.

    Access Hollywood got blunted by the DNC email hack release, but other than going on about drug testing it seems like this tax story is just...unopposed? No real distraction or counternarrative.

    That means they are either holding back an oppo dump for a potentially even bigger story that is going to break, or they got nothing.

    Barr is going to have a statement or some such about an "investigation" before October is done with. I consider this a reasonable prediction.

    My nihilist prediction is they are gearing up to arrest Biden. It's extremely unlikely, but I would not be surprised to find out Trump or a crony have mentioned it.

    indicting Hunter is not out of the realm of the possible

    I feel doing that is a rubicon Trump doesn't want. Like you normalize arresting your opponents kids you blow away the media's argument about the Biden going after the Trump family malfeaseance.

    nothing is off the table, dude.

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    ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    zagdrob wrote: »
    I have to assume it's a good thing that the best counter drop they had to the tax story is that Project Veritas fake nothing about Omar.

    Access Hollywood got blunted by the DNC email hack release, but other than going on about drug testing it seems like this tax story is just...unopposed? No real distraction or counternarrative.

    That means they are either holding back an oppo dump for a potentially even bigger story that is going to break, or they got nothing.

    Barr is going to have a statement or some such about an "investigation" before October is done with. I consider this a reasonable prediction.

    My nihilist prediction is they are gearing up to arrest Biden. It's extremely unlikely, but I would not be surprised to find out Trump or a crony have mentioned it.

    indicting Hunter is not out of the realm of the possible

    I feel doing that is a rubicon Trump doesn't want. Like you normalize arresting your opponents kids you blow away the media's argument about the Biden going after the Trump family malfeaseance.

    You're assuming he understands that it could be done to him. He consumes nothing but crazy alt-right nonsense and has people like Giuliani screaming in his ear that it's OBVIOUS that Hunter Biden took blatant bribes, but everything he and his children done is completely legal and above reproach. Frankly, I think it's kind of astonishing he hasn't tried to arrest Clinton for similar reasons. It was a core promise he made constantly.

    ztrEPtD.gif
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    spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Special K wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I feel doing that is a rubicon Trump doesn't want. Like you normalize arresting your opponents kids you blow away the media's argument about the Biden going after the Trump family malfeaseance.

    I think he does want it - democrats and the media squeal about how awful it is that politically motivated prosecution is taking place etc etc, but the damage is done, politically.

    And the secondary effects? If and when the prosecutors come for his own kids, he can then point to those same arguments, even if his own kids are clearly guilty. Helps him muddy the water rather well.

    yeah kicking off false accusations against Hunter would make a great narrative about legitimate accusations against Kushner and Ivanka. Like say the $700,000 she was paid as a "consultant".

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    TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    zagdrob wrote: »
    I have to assume it's a good thing that the best counter drop they had to the tax story is that Project Veritas fake nothing about Omar.

    Access Hollywood got blunted by the DNC email hack release, but other than going on about drug testing it seems like this tax story is just...unopposed? No real distraction or counternarrative.

    That means they are either holding back an oppo dump for a potentially even bigger story that is going to break, or they got nothing.

    Barr is going to have a statement or some such about an "investigation" before October is done with. I consider this a reasonable prediction.

    My nihilist prediction is they are gearing up to arrest Biden. It's extremely unlikely, but I would not be surprised to find out Trump or a crony have mentioned it.

    indicting Hunter is not out of the realm of the possible

    I feel doing that is a rubicon Trump doesn't want. Like you normalize arresting your opponents kids you blow away the media's argument about the Biden going after the Trump family malfeaseance.

    Does it, though?

    They'll make those arguments regardless and then just say that any previous events were "not the same" because reasons. This is pursuing justice, not the political theater and crushing of dissent that those spineless Democrats are doing!

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    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Special K wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I feel doing that is a rubicon Trump doesn't want. Like you normalize arresting your opponents kids you blow away the media's argument about the Biden going after the Trump family malfeaseance.

    I think he does want it - democrats and the media squeal about how awful it is that politically motivated prosecution is taking place etc etc, but the damage is done, politically.

    And the secondary effects? If and when the prosecutors come for his own kids, he can then point to those same arguments, even if his own kids are clearly guilty. Helps him muddy the water rather well.

    yeah kicking off false accusations against Hunter would make a great narrative about legitimate accusations against Kushner and Ivanka. Like say the $700,000 she was paid as a "consultant".
    I would put it at a 95% probability that Hunter gets indicted or arrested before the election is over.

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    ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited September 2020
    spool32 wrote: »
    Special K wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I feel doing that is a rubicon Trump doesn't want. Like you normalize arresting your opponents kids you blow away the media's argument about the Biden going after the Trump family malfeaseance.

    I think he does want it - democrats and the media squeal about how awful it is that politically motivated prosecution is taking place etc etc, but the damage is done, politically.

    And the secondary effects? If and when the prosecutors come for his own kids, he can then point to those same arguments, even if his own kids are clearly guilty. Helps him muddy the water rather well.

    yeah kicking off false accusations against Hunter would make a great narrative about legitimate accusations against Kushner and Ivanka. Like say the $700,000 she was paid as a "consultant".
    I would put it at a 95% probability that Hunter gets indicted or arrested before the election is over.

    If nothing else, it muddies the waters for his own shit. Either they cry "BOTH SIDES" or they play tapes of Democrats going "Going after family is over the fucking line." Ignoring, of course, that Hunter is just standard rich person nepotism, which is gross and awful, but not illegal, while his family has clearly knowingly been part of a shitload of his illegal schemes, not to mention a number of their own, especially in Don Jr and Kushner's cases.

    ArcTangent on
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    lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Plus I'm a bit weirded out about how people are treating PA as his home state, but his political career is actually from Delaware.

    Like, we're small but we are still a state.

    And yes, him being a home town guy from DE has actually had an effect on folks I know back home that wouldn't have voted for a democrat, but they like Joe. They know Joe. He's done good things for the state and helped them out. So they're voting for Joe.


    Anecdotal evidence sure, but I know a few at least.

This discussion has been closed.