I didn't realize how much some of the old revised -> rath block cards I have are worth now, historic formats blew up in the intervening years. Now if only I could actually get them back from my mother's ex's place, and he hasn't been responsive for uh...a while. Fortunately he's also supremely lazy so even though it's been a couple years he's probably not even gone upstairs to our room heh.
Too broke to really get invested in paper magic all over again, but in the meantime it would be fun picking up some jumpstart packs to play with my wife and kid (they're all also much simpler mechanically, a positive for the kiddo). Wonder when the next printing ships out, I sure as heck am not paying the marked up prices.
Have you thought of using Arena to teach them? The tutorial is actually pretty good and you can help explain mechanics. Also everyone gets free cards and decks so you can just pick up and play
This brings the number of banned Throne of Eldraine cards to 6 (joining Oko, OUaT, Fires, and Cauldron Familiar). No set has seen those numbers in a long time (Mirrodin, if I had to guess).
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Eldraine had a lot of broken cards, and some that only become super apparently broken with Omnath.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I would say that under older standards for banning, a decent number of those cards wouldn't have been banned (cauldron familiar, for one)
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
A reasonable decision but one that could have been avoided if they had banned Omnath back in September when they banned Uro which itself should have been banned back in August. If they're going to keep pushing the power level boundaries, they need to be quicker on the uptake when they mess up.
At least, we're back at a point where I can't immediately think of a card in standard that is going to obviously be banned soon which is a new experience. Maybe Embercleave or Winota proves me wrong but we might be safe from future banning until the next set comes out.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Under the old standards, I would say that Ramunap Ruins, one of Rogue Refiner/Attune with Aether, Rampaging Ferocidon, Cauldron Familiar, T3feri, and Escape to the Wilds would almost certainly not have been banned. Maybe not bans include Smuggler's Copter, Reflextor Mage, the other of Attune/Rogue, one of Veil/OUAT, and Growth Spiral.
Under current standards, there would probably have been 10+ bans in 2006-2017, including Top, Mirari's Wake, Bloodbraid Elf, Birthing Pod, and Coco as obvious ones
A reasonable decision but one that could have been avoided if they had banned Omnath back in September when they banned Uro which itself should have been banned back in August. If they're going to keep pushing the power level boundaries, they need to be quicker on the uptake when they mess up.
At least, we're back at a point where I can't immediately think of a card in standard that is going to obviously be banned soon which is a new experience. Maybe Embercleave or Winota proves me wrong but we might be safe from future banning until the next set comes out.
Oh, huh, I thought Winota was already banned in Standard. But turns out she's only banned in Brawl and Historic.
A reasonable decision but one that could have been avoided if they had banned Omnath back in September when they banned Uro which itself should have been banned back in August. If they're going to keep pushing the power level boundaries, they need to be quicker on the uptake when they mess up.
At least, we're back at a point where I can't immediately think of a card in standard that is going to obviously be banned soon which is a new experience. Maybe Embercleave or Winota proves me wrong but we might be safe from future banning until the next set comes out.
Oh, huh, I thought Winota was already banned in Standard. But turns out she's only banned in Brawl and Historic.
A reasonable decision but one that could have been avoided if they had banned Omnath back in September when they banned Uro which itself should have been banned back in August. If they're going to keep pushing the power level boundaries, they need to be quicker on the uptake when they mess up.
At least, we're back at a point where I can't immediately think of a card in standard that is going to obviously be banned soon which is a new experience. Maybe Embercleave or Winota proves me wrong but we might be safe from future banning until the next set comes out.
Oh, huh, I thought Winota was already banned in Standard. But turns out she's only banned in Brawl and Historic.
well they banned the only good human she can fetch in Standard, hence why she's not worth running any more.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
I think Winota is probably fine. There's nothing completely busted for her to pull out and the deckbuilding restrictions for a Winota deck are pretty harsh.
KetarCome on upstairswe're having a partyRegistered Userregular
I had also thought Winota was banned for some reason. But I tried to revise my old Winota deck and you just can't make one as effective right now. The biggest problem is probably the lack of worthwhile Humans to fetch, but the deck also suffers from losing some of the better trigger creatures like Legion Warboss.
I had also thought Winota was banned for some reason. But I tried to revise my old Winota deck and you just can't make one as effective right now. The biggest problem is probably the lack of worthwhile Humans to fetch, but the deck also suffers from losing some of the better trigger creatures like Legion Warboss.
Andrea Mengucci disagrees. A friend of mine just made mythic with this this from him last week (so pre-bans):
I had also thought Winota was banned for some reason. But I tried to revise my old Winota deck and you just can't make one as effective right now. The biggest problem is probably the lack of worthwhile Humans to fetch, but the deck also suffers from losing some of the better trigger creatures like Legion Warboss.
Andrea Mengucci disagrees. A friend of mine just made mythic with this this from him last week (so pre-bans):
It's not all-in on Winota like previous versions but she still provides a lot of value.
That deck is nowhere near as explosive as Winota decks used to be. I'm sure you can do well with it, but it is very different than what people were doing with Winota before.
So I'm working on a new idea in Historic based around Cycling and Escape Protocol. The deck is BUG, and it tries to exploit the specifics of Escape vs. Astral. For example, creatures are exiled and returned immediately, that means you can spin a creature multiple times in one turn - especially if you have multiple Escapes out. It also means you can do things like make people discard at instant speed and counter spells with stuff like Acquisitions Expert and Frilled Mystic.
This is where I'm at right now - obviously still needs a lot of work, so anyone with 2 cents, feel free to throw them in.
Protocol can also slide artifacts in and out, but the best things I could find for that in Historic were Navigator's Compass, Soul-Guide Lantern, and Golden Egg - which overall is kind of underwhelming. I kind of feel like 1 or 2 Thassa, Deep Dwelling should be in there as a backup engine, even if she doesn't work with Mystic. Ramunap Excavator and Muldrotha are two cards I've been looking at, and I kinda feel like the cycling suite could be better than it is. Overall it definitely feels like there's something here, but this list isn't quite it yet. Current version is most weak to fast aggro. Swapping out the Wilt's for something relevant is probably a big part of the answer there. Uro doesn't really synergize with the deck very well, but it'll probably stay until I can find something better.
XBL: Morgan Coke Yes, there is a space, not an underscore. I'm old school like that.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited October 2020
Dimir rogues is the new top tier deck.
Edit though without the sustain of omnath lifegain RDW will make a comeback
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Edit though without the sustain of omnath lifegain RDW will make a comeback
I don't think Dimir Rogues will hold the top spot for long. Omnath significantly warped the metagame where that was a good deck. A lot more cheap and instant speed removal, just a lot more interaction in general, plus the fact that there will be multiple aggro decks faster than Rogues now.
My initial pick for new top deck is Rakdos Midrange. Could be wrong, just have to wait and see.
XBL: Morgan Coke Yes, there is a space, not an underscore. I'm old school like that.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Edit though without the sustain of omnath lifegain RDW will make a comeback
I don't think Dimir Rogues will hold the top spot for long. Omnath significantly warped the metagame where that was a good deck. A lot more cheap and instant speed removal, just a lot more interaction in general, plus the fact that there will be multiple aggro decks faster than Rogues now.
My initial pick for new top deck is Rakdos Midrange. Could be wrong, just have to wait and see.
I disagree simply because the diminutive rogues deck I run is built to deal with aggro, you just wont see the same type of dimir rogues as much.
But flash rogues? Hell yes.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Edit though without the sustain of omnath lifegain RDW will make a comeback
I don't think Dimir Rogues will hold the top spot for long. Omnath significantly warped the metagame where that was a good deck. A lot more cheap and instant speed removal, just a lot more interaction in general, plus the fact that there will be multiple aggro decks faster than Rogues now.
My initial pick for new top deck is Rakdos Midrange. Could be wrong, just have to wait and see.
I disagree simply because the diminutive rogues deck I run is built to deal with aggro, you just wont see the same type of dimir rogues as much.
But flash rogues? Hell yes.
A lower-to-the-ground Rogues deck should have a harder time dealing with the midrange and control decks that can pop up now that Omnath isn't shoving their faces into the toilet. But if that works out that would mean we have an actual format instead of tier 0.5 vs. specially-tuned decks with 51% winrates vs. 0.5 and 40% winrates vs. anything else.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Edit though without the sustain of omnath lifegain RDW will make a comeback
I don't think Dimir Rogues will hold the top spot for long. Omnath significantly warped the metagame where that was a good deck. A lot more cheap and instant speed removal, just a lot more interaction in general, plus the fact that there will be multiple aggro decks faster than Rogues now.
My initial pick for new top deck is Rakdos Midrange. Could be wrong, just have to wait and see.
I disagree simply because the diminutive rogues deck I run is built to deal with aggro, you just wont see the same type of dimir rogues as much.
But flash rogues? Hell yes.
A lower-to-the-ground Rogues deck should have a harder time dealing with the midrange and control decks that can pop up now that Omnath isn't shoving their faces into the toilet. But if that works out that would mean we have an actual format instead of tier 0.5 vs. specially-tuned decks with 51% winrates vs. 0.5 and 40% winrates vs. anything else.
...my deck is midrange though?
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
I guess I don't know what "diminutive" means in this context. :P
Regardless, I think Rogues is a pretty clear tier 1 deck but I don't think we have an 0.5 anymore.
Lot of rogues decks are basically just dimir control with some rogue tribal mechanics
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I guess I don't know what "diminutive" means in this context. :P
Regardless, I think Rogues is a pretty clear tier 1 deck but I don't think we have an 0.5 anymore.
I think it's maybe autocorrect helping out with "dimir".
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I guess I don't know what "diminutive" means in this context. :P
Regardless, I think Rogues is a pretty clear tier 1 deck but I don't think we have an 0.5 anymore.
I think it's maybe autocorrect helping out with "dimir".
I didn't even realize it had occurred until you made this post, so yes, that's what I meant.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
My opponent: Ha ha! You cannot counter my creatures or my enchantments! I have three different ways to give my big enchanted guy indestructible or protection from whatever you have! You're doomed!
Me: Sacrifice your highest CMC creature.
My opponent: *Concedes*
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
And I'm back at Diamond level again. I literally only lost one set tonight.
This deck is kinda good.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I think this is by far the most nuanced and insightful take on the whole Omnath situation: https://youtu.be/4_s1Nwq4-Ww
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KetarCome on upstairswe're having a partyRegistered Userregular
There's nothing quite like sitting there while some jackass makes you sit through enough triggers to put 445 Scutes on the board, and then watching them concede immediately to a Mystic Subdual as soon as your turn begins. (I had enough flying damage to kill them and the mystic subdual removed reach from their only creature capable of blocking a flyer)
I thought for sure it was going to crash out before I could get that turn, and just started cackling when it actually got through all of those triggers and kept going.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
There's nothing quite like sitting there while some jackass makes you sit through enough triggers to put 445 Scutes on the board, and then watching them concede immediately to a Mystic Subdual as soon as your turn begins. (I had enough flying damage to kill them and the mystic subdual removed reach from their only creature capable of blocking a flyer)
I thought for sure it was going to crash out before I could get that turn, and just started cackling when it actually got through all of those triggers and kept going.
I had something similar happen the other day as my opponent made 500 scutes and was going "good game" while the triggers were resolving and then I just passed to my turn and played extinction event on odds.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
6-2 tonight with this extremely dumb sultai turbo mill deck. Basic plan is to just chump block with as much stupid recurring shit as I can for as long as I can.
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Have you thought of using Arena to teach them? The tutorial is actually pretty good and you can help explain mechanics. Also everyone gets free cards and decks so you can just pick up and play
Omnath: Banned all the places
Standard - Also banned Clover and Escape to the Wilds
Which probably doesn't say a whole lot of good things about the state of Standard right now. Bannings should not be expected.
Phewf.
Yeah, they've been a lot freer with the bans lately. Which, in truth, I only wish they were faster about it sometimes.
At least, we're back at a point where I can't immediately think of a card in standard that is going to obviously be banned soon which is a new experience. Maybe Embercleave or Winota proves me wrong but we might be safe from future banning until the next set comes out.
Adventures are by their nature strong, and it's no surprise that the ones that get the most use are soft/hard removal and ramp.
Under current standards, there would probably have been 10+ bans in 2006-2017, including Top, Mirari's Wake, Bloodbraid Elf, Birthing Pod, and Coco as obvious ones
Oh, huh, I thought Winota was already banned in Standard. But turns out she's only banned in Brawl and Historic.
I mean... give it a month at this rate?
well they banned the only good human she can fetch in Standard, hence why she's not worth running any more.
Andrea Mengucci disagrees. A friend of mine just made mythic with this this from him last week (so pre-bans):
https://mtgazone.com/deck/boros-winota-by-thirteen-609-mythic-october-2020-season/
It's not all-in on Winota like previous versions but she still provides a lot of value.
That deck is nowhere near as explosive as Winota decks used to be. I'm sure you can do well with it, but it is very different than what people were doing with Winota before.
This is where I'm at right now - obviously still needs a lot of work, so anyone with 2 cents, feel free to throw them in.
Enchantments
4x Escape Protocol
2x Drake Haven
Creatures
4x Acquisitions Expert
4x Elvish Rejuvanator
3x Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
3x Frilled Mystic
Spells
4x Censor
4x Wilt
4x Neutralize
1x Assassin's Trophy
2x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Casualties of War
Lands
2x Island
1x Forest
1x Swamp
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Woodland Cemetary
2x Breeding Pool
2x Hinterland Harbor
2x Drowned Catacomb
2x Fetid Pool
2x Lonely Sandbar
1x Barren Moor
1x Tranquil Thicket
4x Zagoth Triome
Protocol can also slide artifacts in and out, but the best things I could find for that in Historic were Navigator's Compass, Soul-Guide Lantern, and Golden Egg - which overall is kind of underwhelming. I kind of feel like 1 or 2 Thassa, Deep Dwelling should be in there as a backup engine, even if she doesn't work with Mystic. Ramunap Excavator and Muldrotha are two cards I've been looking at, and I kinda feel like the cycling suite could be better than it is. Overall it definitely feels like there's something here, but this list isn't quite it yet. Current version is most weak to fast aggro. Swapping out the Wilt's for something relevant is probably a big part of the answer there. Uro doesn't really synergize with the deck very well, but it'll probably stay until I can find something better.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
Titan's Creed: Jump first, don't ask questions, punch everything
*immediately crafts Dimir Mill*
Edit though without the sustain of omnath lifegain RDW will make a comeback
I don't think Dimir Rogues will hold the top spot for long. Omnath significantly warped the metagame where that was a good deck. A lot more cheap and instant speed removal, just a lot more interaction in general, plus the fact that there will be multiple aggro decks faster than Rogues now.
My initial pick for new top deck is Rakdos Midrange. Could be wrong, just have to wait and see.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
Titan's Creed: Jump first, don't ask questions, punch everything
I disagree simply because the diminutive rogues deck I run is built to deal with aggro, you just wont see the same type of dimir rogues as much.
But flash rogues? Hell yes.
The lurrus dimir deck from the tourney has been super fun to play around with.
Has been pretty darn effective so far.
It's like this fun mix between a control deck with little creatures that smash face super well and a lot of resilience.
A lower-to-the-ground Rogues deck should have a harder time dealing with the midrange and control decks that can pop up now that Omnath isn't shoving their faces into the toilet. But if that works out that would mean we have an actual format instead of tier 0.5 vs. specially-tuned decks with 51% winrates vs. 0.5 and 40% winrates vs. anything else.
...my deck is midrange though?
Regardless, I think Rogues is a pretty clear tier 1 deck but I don't think we have an 0.5 anymore.
Yeah mine uses a bunch of rogue tribal and flash tribal stuff
I think it's maybe autocorrect helping out with "dimir".
I didn't even realize it had occurred until you made this post, so yes, that's what I meant.
Me: Sacrifice your highest CMC creature.
My opponent: *Concedes*
This deck is kinda good.
I thought for sure it was going to crash out before I could get that turn, and just started cackling when it actually got through all of those triggers and kept going.
I had something similar happen the other day as my opponent made 500 scutes and was going "good game" while the triggers were resolving and then I just passed to my turn and played extinction event on odds.
4 Merfolk Secretkeeper (ELD) 53
5 Forest (ANB) 112
4 Ruin Crab (ZNR) 75
4 Maddening Cacophony (ZNR) 67
4 Thieves' Guild Enforcer (M21) 125
4 Swamp (ANB) 116
2 Call of the Death-Dweller (IKO) 78
5 Island (ANB) 113
2 Teferi's Tutelage (M21) 78
2 Lotus Cobra (ZNR) 193
3 Drown in the Loch (ELD) 188
4 Overwhelmed Apprentice (ELD) 60
2 Inscription of Ruin (ZNR) 108
2 Glasspool Mimic (ZNR) 60
1 Agadeem's Awakening (ZNR) 90
3 Cultivate (M21) 177
3 Fabled Passage (ELD) 244
2 Clearwater Pathway (ZNR) 260
4 Frantic Inventory (M21) 50