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The Middle East - bOUTeflika

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    TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    On countries like the UAE, Serbia and Kosovo suddenly deciding that Israel is cool, a lot of it has to do with the big US withdrawal. Without the US on the Middle East, a lot of small countries need a backer to keep them on the map, and from all the players, the less bad is Israel.

    The other alternative is all of them joining forces and that ain't happening.

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Per the NYT article, the big deal is that this aligns the UAE and Israel as more solid allies, forming a coalition against Iran and their proxy militias.

    Yeah, from what I've read from analysis of the situation, the UAE and Israel (or at least Bibi) were already cooperating. This is basically bringing the relationship everyone already knew existed and making it more formal. And Israel is just doing some "concessions" that don't mean much in order to give it all an excuse.

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    JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    Kosovo and Serbia could also be attempting to use Israel as an asset in their own dispute.

    Serbia also has a nice Military Industrial Complex and could be looking for sales.

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    MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    So what's been going on since that "peace deal" that failson Kushner wrote up to prop up his failson father-in-law?

    Israel's carrying out air strikes against Gaza.

    There is no peace, nor even order, only the wielding of power against those considered weaker.

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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Sudan now has an ambassador in the US. State African Affairs official.



    That part is /finegood, but hopefully entirely disconnected to this. From the Pompeo visit to Sudan last week.
    During a private meeting to hammer out details of a deal to remove Sudan from the U.S. list of state sponsors of terror, Pompeo abruptly prodded Sudanese Prime Minister Abdalla Hamdok to place a call to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and kickstart the normalization of relations between the two countries. The gesture, Pompeo said, would make it easier for him to convince Congress to remove Sudan from the terror list. “Everybody on the Sudanese side’s mouths just dropped to the floor,” said one person familiar with the meeting.

    Hamdok, in a precarious position at the helm of a fragile transitional government, declined, explaining that he didn’t have the mandate for such a momentous move—and at any rate, already had a preliminary U.S. commitment to to lift the terror designation. Pompeo later tried again with Sudan’s top military officer, who also refused, according to people familiar with the matter.

    It’s so fucked up. It’s not just the forced normalization attempt, but getting rejected by civilian leadership and deciding to attempt a runaround and go ask the generals to do it just after the end of 20 years of military rule.

    It is interesting what democratization does, though, because without the permanent threat of protesters flooding the streets again I can see how a Sudanese president could be tempted to normalize in exchange for some goodies.

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Netanyahu engaged in laundry laundering

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/benjamin-netanyahu-us-visits-dirty-laundry/2020/09/23/8407f52c-fdb3-11ea-830c-a160b331ca62_story.html
    Over the years, the Israeli leader has developed a reputation among the staff at the U.S. president’s guesthouse for bringing special cargo on his trips to Washington: bags and suitcases full of dirty laundry, according to U.S. officials familiar with the matter.

    The clothes are cleaned for the prime minister free of charge by the U.S. staff, a perk that is available to all foreign leaders but sparingly taken advantage of given the short stays of busy heads of state.

    “The Netanyahus are the only ones who bring actual suitcases of dirty laundry for us to clean,” said one U.S. official, who like others spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the details of a foreign leader’s visits. “After multiple trips, it became clear this was intentional.”

    Israeli officials denied that Netanyahu overuses his American hosts’ laundry services, calling the allegations “absurd,” but they acknowledged that he has been the target of laundry-related accusations in the past.

    In 2016, Netanyahu sued his own office and Israel’s attorney general in an effort to prevent the release of his laundry bills under the country’s freedom of information act. The judge sided with Netanyahu, and the details of his laundry bills remain secret pending an appeal in the Supreme Court.

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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Netanyahu engaged in laundry laundering

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/benjamin-netanyahu-us-visits-dirty-laundry/2020/09/23/8407f52c-fdb3-11ea-830c-a160b331ca62_story.html
    Over the years, the Israeli leader has developed a reputation among the staff at the U.S. president’s guesthouse for bringing special cargo on his trips to Washington: bags and suitcases full of dirty laundry, according to U.S. officials familiar with the matter.

    The clothes are cleaned for the prime minister free of charge by the U.S. staff, a perk that is available to all foreign leaders but sparingly taken advantage of given the short stays of busy heads of state.

    “The Netanyahus are the only ones who bring actual suitcases of dirty laundry for us to clean,” said one U.S. official, who like others spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the details of a foreign leader’s visits. “After multiple trips, it became clear this was intentional.”

    Israeli officials denied that Netanyahu overuses his American hosts’ laundry services, calling the allegations “absurd,” but they acknowledged that he has been the target of laundry-related accusations in the past.

    In 2016, Netanyahu sued his own office and Israel’s attorney general in an effort to prevent the release of his laundry bills under the country’s freedom of information act. The judge sided with Netanyahu, and the details of his laundry bills remain secret pending an appeal in the Supreme Court.

    The intersection of petty corruption, cheapness, and metaphor.

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    PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    Top-secret cleaning bills

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    SLyMSLyM Registered User regular
    The caucuses aren't really part of the middle east, but I feel like this thread is the most relevant place to discuss the fact that Armenia and Azerbaijan are shooting at each other again.

    My friend is working on a roguelike game you can play if you want to. (It has free demo)
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    daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Yeah, so the head of Iran's nuclear program has just been assassinated. Rather crudely too, as far as these things go. I guess the plan is that it'll be hard to get the JCPOA back in shape if we (or Israel, or Saudi Arabia) are in a shooting war with Iran.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Yeah, so the head of Iran's nuclear program has just been assassinated. Rather crudely too, as far as these things go. I guess the plan is that it'll be hard to get the JCPOA back in shape if we (or Israel, or Saudi Arabia) are in a shooting war with Iran.
    Yeah, I agree with that description of the plan. Whether it was Israeli or US agents the goal is the same, I'd say. The Iranians recognize this, so hopefully they'll refuse to rise to the bait, but that also depends on how far Israel/US are willing to escalate.
    The confusion in the Iranian media reflects the high tensions inside Iran, amid reports that Israeli intelligence and secret service have been given the green light to mount attacks on Iranian nuclear installations before Donald Trump stands down as president.

    That line is probably the most disturbing in that article.

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    daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Kaputa wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Yeah, so the head of Iran's nuclear program has just been assassinated. Rather crudely too, as far as these things go. I guess the plan is that it'll be hard to get the JCPOA back in shape if we (or Israel, or Saudi Arabia) are in a shooting war with Iran.
    Yeah, I agree with that description of the plan. Whether it was Israeli or US agents the goal is the same, I'd say. The Iranians recognize this, so hopefully they'll refuse to rise to the bait, but that also depends on how far Israel/US are willing to escalate.
    The confusion in the Iranian media reflects the high tensions inside Iran, amid reports that Israeli intelligence and secret service have been given the green light to mount attacks on Iranian nuclear installations before Donald Trump stands down as president.

    That line is probably the most disturbing in that article.

    Iran, so grain of salt, is reporting that the assassins were killed too. My pulled-from-my-ass theory is that this was an MBS special, with Israel and/or the USA supplying intel and hardware.

    Plus there's this bit from the WaPost. The Sunday mentioned in the quote would be the 22nd of November.
    According to the Israeli publication Ynet, Netanyahu spent a few hours late Sunday in the Saudi coastal city of Neom, where he met with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. Netanyahu reportedly traveled with Yossi Cohen, the head of Mossad, Israel’s spy agency, a key figure in emerging efforts to broker diplomatic relations with the kingdom.

    You can have your finely-crafted watch - give me the sledgehammer to the face any day.

    -Xykon

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    I know would be a violation of the Logan act for Biden for publicly say anything before Jan 20, but it may be a good idea to put the word out that any foreign policy statements or actions by the current administration including guarantees of support in any offensive wars above and beyond preexisting defense commitments are considered to be the actions of an illegitimate lame fuck president in the context of an attempted coup against the united states government and will not be honored or acknowledged after Jan 20.

    The spell check on my phone wisely corrected what I wrote to lame fuck instead of lame duck and in the interest of acknowledging fair credit I am letting it stand.

    Jealous Deva on
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    VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    edited November 2020

    It’s a fucking pointless provocation, regardless if it was the US, the Saudis, or Israel

    This isn’t the 1940s or some fucking avengers movie

    This one guy is not the key to the program. He is easily replaced.

    VishNub on
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    GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    It also kind of underlines that none of this would have been necessary if Trump hadn't pulled out of the nuclear deal as soon as he was in office.

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    ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    I’m also super squicked out just morally with this kind of shit. This wasn’t some strike against terrorists or armed fighters. It’s a scientist in a country we aren’t at war with. Like to be fair I know it’s silly because morally all of these kinds of strikes aren’t black and white, and civilian casualties or designation of who and who isn’t a “fighter” ranges from hazy to malignant at the best of times and downright murderous at the worst.

    But there’s something about the killing of scientists, even ones in charge of potentially military tech, it’s disgusting as shit, and what does it achieve? If anything patriotic Iranians will be galvanised, and you garauntee a bunch of young idealists now want to get into the sciences and work in the same field out of a sense of duty and common cause. This isn’t sacred knowledge, like yeah experience is valuable, but you aren’t killing leaders or organisers here who cannot be replaced or who were uniquely pushing this agenda

    The whole Iranian nuclear issue reminds me of all things of how abortion is viewed in the US and conservative circles globally (it’s a stretch but stay with me). If the goal is to have less abortions, then you should follow democrat or liberal policies, comprehensive sex education, access to healthcare, higher education opportunities, job and career opportunities, poverty initiatives, these all reduce abortion rates. But for conservatives that’s not the point, it’s not about reducing abortion instances, it’s about criminalising it, attacking it, fighting and railing against it. It doesn’t seem to really be about reducing or even stopping abortions, but about demonising and criminalising

    It’s the same with Iran’s nuclear ambitions. It doesn’t seem to be about actually stopping them from developing the tech or a bomb. It seems more about an excuse to fight against them, to attack them, to galvanise support domestically against an enemy. If it was about preventing them from getting the bomb the best way was already happening and we tore it up

    Prohass on
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Prohass wrote: »
    I’m also super squicked out just morally with this kind of shit. This wasn’t some strike against terrorists or armed fighters. It’s a scientist in a country we aren’t at war with. Like to be fair I know it’s silly because morally all of these kinds of strikes aren’t black and white, and civilian casualties or designation of who and who isn’t a “fighter” ranges from hazy to malignant at the best of times and downright murderous at the worst.

    But there’s something about the killing of scientists, even ones in charge of potentially military tech, it’s disgusting as shit, and what does it achieve? If anything patriotic Iranians will be galvanised, and you garauntee a bunch of young idealists now want to get into the sciences and work in the same field out of a sense of duty and common cause. This isn’t sacred knowledge, like yeah experience is valuable, but you aren’t killing leaders or organisers here who cannot be replaced or who were uniquely pushing this agenda

    The whole Iranian nuclear issue reminds me of all things of how abortion is viewed in the US and conservative circles globally (it’s a stretch but stay with me). If the goal is to have less abortions, then you should follow democrat or liberal policies, comprehensive sex education, access to healthcare, higher education opportunities, job and career opportunities, poverty initiatives, these all reduce abortion rates. But for conservatives that’s not the point, it’s not about reducing abortion instances, it’s about criminalising it, attacking it, fighting and railing against it. It doesn’t seem to really be about reducing or even stopping abortions, but about demonising and criminalising

    It’s the same with Iran’s nuclear ambitions. It doesn’t seem to be about actually stopping them from developing the tech or a bomb. It seems more about an excuse to fight against them, to attack them, to galvanise support domestically against an enemy. If it was about preventing them from getting the bomb the best way was already happening and we tore it up

    It's about preventing the US from being able to make an agreement with Iran.

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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Lokman Slim was a prominent anti-sectarian activist, but I mostly know him for the documentaries he co-directed and and his publishing (mostly about middle eastern prisons, refugees, and the Lebanese civil war). He was assassinated in southern Lebanon. Starting the day with the shittiest news. He should’ve died old and happy in his bed, decades from now.

    https://apnews.com/article/beirut-lebanon-6b3a92618cb7bb6030557173ed1949b2

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    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    Libya has formed a transitional government, including figures from the rival eastern and western governments as well as other factions. While there's no telling how successful it will be in resolving the country's divisions or establishing a more stable state, this is still the most positive news I've read about Libyan politics for a long time. This time last year, Haftar's army was launching a full fledged assault on Tripoli and Turkey was escalating its military involvement in Tripoli's defense, eventually leading to Egypt threatening an invasion and Russia making shows of force with its air power. It looks like the warring factions in Libya and their myriad foreign backers have stepped back from that brink. Everyone relevant, from the US, to Russia, Turkey, France, the UAE, and Egypt, has made statements indicating approval and support for the new transitional administration. The last decade has made it harder and harder for me to be optimistic, but nonetheless I'm feeling some hope that we might could be witnessing the beginning of an end to the ten years of chaos on violence that have plagued that country.

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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Has no definite or immediate meaning, but it’s notable, not least because it’s being decently publicized in all official and semi-officials TV channels. President of the UAE and ruler of Abi Dhabi, the crown prince of Abu Dhabi (MBZ), and the Vice President and ruler of Dubai all send their congratulations to president Rouhani on the anniversary of the Iranian revolution. All touting the cultural and economic links between Iran and UAE.

    https://www.alkhaleej.ae/2021-02-10/رئيس-الدولة-ونائبه-ومحمد-بن-زايد-يهنئون-الرئيس-الإيراني-باليوم-الوطني/محليات/أخبار-الدار

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    GiantGeek2020GiantGeek2020 Registered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    Has no definite or immediate meaning, but it’s notable, not least because it’s being decently publicized in all official and semi-officials TV channels. President of the UAE and ruler of Abi Dhabi, the crown prince of Abu Dhabi (MBZ), and the Vice President and ruler of Dubai all send their congratulations to president Rouhani on the anniversary of the Iranian revolution. All touting the cultural and economic links between Iran and UAE.

    https://www.alkhaleej.ae/2021-02-10/رئيس-الدولة-ونائبه-ومحمد-بن-زايد-يهنئون-الرئيس-الإيراني-باليوم-الوطني/محليات/أخبار-الدار

    If my guess is that the subtle political meaning is "Fuck you House of Saud", would I be in the right area?

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    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    Has no definite or immediate meaning, but it’s notable, not least because it’s being decently publicized in all official and semi-officials TV channels. President of the UAE and ruler of Abi Dhabi, the crown prince of Abu Dhabi (MBZ), and the Vice President and ruler of Dubai all send their congratulations to president Rouhani on the anniversary of the Iranian revolution. All touting the cultural and economic links between Iran and UAE.

    https://www.alkhaleej.ae/2021-02-10/رئيس-الدولة-ونائبه-ومحمد-بن-زايد-يهنئون-الرئيس-الإيراني-باليوم-الوطني/محليات/أخبار-الدار

    If my guess is that the subtle political meaning is "Fuck you House of Saud", would I be in the right area?
    I'm not sure, but I think that would be a strange message from the UAE, given their general alliance with Saudi Arabia. Not to say that the two nations don't have their differences, but generally speaking they have friendly relations and often cooperate in regional issues, for better or worse (often for the worse, IMO).

    It could be a signal that they're willing to take a more moderate role between the two powers, though, kind of like that of Kuwait. But that might be overstating things, I dunno.

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    JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    I saw online that Iran has a lot of businesses there? Idk how true that is.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    I saw online that Iran has a lot of businesses there? Idk how true that is.

    Iran is SA's main rival as a regional power, and their international relationships (both in the region and throughout the world) are complicated by that.

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    JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    Yeah I know that....

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    TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    So, the big news is that the Sauds are finally talking about joining the Israel/UAE alliance:
    Jerusalem is currently in talks with the kingdoms of Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates in establishing a four-nation defense alliance, according to an exclusive i24NEWS report.

    While Jerusalem does not have official diplomatic relations with Riyadh, foreign media report that the two countries have long-standing clandestine ties.

    However, the UAE and Bahrain, signed a historic normalization deal with Israel in September 2020 known as the US-brokered Abraham Accords.

    The reported defense alliance talks likely come in response to the "growing Iranian threat" in the region, specifically regarding its budding nuclear program along with its expanding influence in the Middle East with countries like Syria and Iraq.

    With the US following the now bipartisan pivot to the Pacific to counter China, an anti-Iran alliance seems like the obvious next step.

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    MillMill Registered User regular
    The question is will that put any pressure on Israeli to be less fuck awful towards the Palestinians or will that just make that whole shit show even worse? I suppose this could result in better deals for Israeli citizens of Arab decent because shitting on them for just being Arab could put some unneeded strain on the alliance. AKA the Israeli government might start clamping down on some of it's more overt racists and this is the only reason why I wonder if this might result in an improvement for the Palestinians.

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    MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    The question is will that put any pressure on Israeli to be less fuck awful towards the Palestinians or will that just make that whole shit show even worse? I suppose this could result in better deals for Israeli citizens of Arab decent because shitting on them for just being Arab could put some unneeded strain on the alliance. AKA the Israeli government might start clamping down on some of it's more overt racists and this is the only reason why I wonder if this might result in an improvement for the Palestinians.

    Nah.

    The Saudis don't give a shit about the Palestinians outside of a useful political tool internally. Same as pretty much all the other governments in the region if they don't outright loath them due to historical issues aka Jordan.

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    SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    Mill wrote: »
    The question is will that put any pressure on Israeli to be less fuck awful towards the Palestinians or will that just make that whole shit show even worse? I suppose this could result in better deals for Israeli citizens of Arab decent because shitting on them for just being Arab could put some unneeded strain on the alliance. AKA the Israeli government might start clamping down on some of it's more overt racists and this is the only reason why I wonder if this might result in an improvement for the Palestinians.

    The Saudies don't give a shit about the Palestinians.

    Edit: beaten to it.

    Smrtnik on
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Mill wrote: »
    The question is will that put any pressure on Israeli to be less fuck awful towards the Palestinians or will that just make that whole shit show even worse? I suppose this could result in better deals for Israeli citizens of Arab decent because shitting on them for just being Arab could put some unneeded strain on the alliance. AKA the Israeli government might start clamping down on some of it's more overt racists and this is the only reason why I wonder if this might result in an improvement for the Palestinians.

    Nah.

    The Saudis don't give a shit about the Palestinians outside of a useful political tool internally. Same as pretty much all the other governments in the region if they don't outright loath them due to historical issues aka Jordan.

    This is basically why all these deals happened. Their support for the Palestinian cause was basically just for show. The reality is they would have little issue cutting a mutually beneficial deal with Israel to fuck over the regional rivals they actually have a chance of doing something about.

    I wonder if a lot of why this is happening recently is because a combination of lack of progress and a lack of interest on the part of Israel and other shit happening has left the Palestinian issue to whither and become less relevant and so there's more space for these countries to simply move on without paying as much of a political cost for it.

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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Pope’s arriving in Iraq now, if you want to watch live coverage of that.

    https://youtu.be/ewjmjnLlFAI

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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited March 2021
    Ayatollah al Sistani and the Pope. Via Reuters’ Iraq bureau chief.



    Edit: if not obvious, that’s the first time a pope and a grand ayatollah have met (probably any ayatollah).

    Elki on
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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited March 2021
    A pope and ayatollah walk into a room. The ayatollah says
    “Religious & spiritual leadership must play a big role to put a stop to tragedy ... and urge sides, especially great powers, to make wisdom and sense prevail and erase the language of war.” Great powers must "not sponsor their own self-interest at the expense of the rights of people to live in freedom and dignity." Adds Christians should live like all Iraqis should in peace and coexistence.
    Then the pope says

    Elki on
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    GiantGeek2020GiantGeek2020 Registered User regular
    He says
    “From this place, where faith was born, from the land of our father Abraham, let us affirm that God is merciful and that the greatest blasphemy is to profane his name by hating our brothers and sisters,” Francis said. “Hostility, extremism and violence are not born of a religious heart: they are betrayals of religion.”

    He also tweets



    Text of Tweet for those who cannot see it: "#Peace does not demand winners or losers, but brothers and sisters who, despite past hurts, journey from conflict to unity. Let us ask for this in praying for the whole Middle East, especially for war-torn Syria. #ApostolicJourney #Iraq"



    Text of Tweet for those who cannot see it: "Where does the journey of peace begin? From the decision not to have enemies. Anyone who believes in God, has no enemies to fight. He or she has only one enemy to face, one that stands at the door of the heart and knocks to enter: it is hatred. "



    Text of Tweet for those who cannot see it: "It is up to us, today’s humanity, especially believers, to turn instruments of hatred into instruments of #peace, to appeal firmly to the leaders of nations to make the increasing proliferation of arms give way to the distribution of food for all. #ApostolicJourney #Iraq"

    Pope Francis is the Bishop of Rome

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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod

    The Iraqi government had more than 3 years to remove the rubble and rebuild. It chose not to and continued punishing the city. How embarrassing is it for Baghdad who has had 3 Prime Ministers since 2014 and failed to accomplish something as easy as rebuilding the Old Town

    Ev3Jfv3XMAYtTrT?format=jpg&name=large

    https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-pope-iraq-idUSKBN2AZ04X

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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    People in Bakhdida celebrating in the night before the pope's visit.

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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited March 2021
    Election season is warming up.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-07/head-of-engineering-giant-owned-by-iran-s-guard-eyes-presidency
    The head of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps’ biggest commercial enterprise has resigned to run in Iran’s June presidential elections, the Iranian Students’ News Agency reported.

    Saeed Mohammad headed the Khatam al-Anbiya Construction Headquarters behind many of Iran’s large domestic infrastructure projects. While he lacks political experience or any significant public profile, Mohammad is a veteran of the Guard with solid military credentials and close ties to the office of Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

    That’d be kinda new, no previous president has come from the military (although he’s entirely a military bureaucrat). Which might have made him kind of a longshot, but it looks like he’s gonna have IRGC support. And he’s 53, so that’s a plus with Khamenei.

    Elki on
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    MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    In "I never would've predicted this but I guess it makes sense after it's explained to me" Iraqi Kurds are converting to Zoroastrianism in unspecified but apparently large numbers. I saw numbers of up to 100,000 recent converts, though that's likely an exaggeration (that would nearly double the number of Zoroastrians estimated to exist in the entire world). Nonstop attacks by the Islamic State for years, despite most Kurds being Muslims for centuries, has started making a lot of people disillusioned with Islam, and Kurds are known for being welcoming to people of different religions and ethnicities, so why not this very ancient and now very fringe faith? If you're going to be a heretic anyway, just lean into it and go full heretic.

    I don't know if this is going to have any influence on anything in the future, just something I had seen.

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    Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    don't you have to like, be born into zoroastrianism to be considered a real member of the faith? Though I guess there may not be much of a hierarchy left to enforce such things

    NREqxl5.jpg
    it was the smallest on the list but
    Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
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    WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    don't you have to like, be born into zoroastrianism to be considered a real member of the faith? Though I guess there may not be much of a hierarchy left to enforce such things

    That's probably the Yazidis you're thinking of. They were in the news for also getting explicitly targeted by the Islamic State.

This discussion has been closed.