As someone who's never watched the anime I didn't have a problem with the portrayal of Vicious, and I liked where Julia's story went.
That said...
I do think Vicious's story needs to end - I don't think he's quite interesting enough to warrant continuing, whereas what's going on with Julia I'm down for some more of.
Also I know the technical reasons Ein can only be in a limited number of scenes, but I'm going to need them to put more Ein in.
+5
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
This show is going to get hate watched into a second season. It's not the worst show ever and Shafir *is* Jet, he does an amazing job....but it's not a good show.
Hate leads to indifference very quickly. The second season of the He-Man Masters of the Universe by Smith was released a week ago but no one cared anymore, the damage was done.
Plenty of folks liked MotU:R though, and the back 5 were really good.
It's just Tex speaking like most people on the internet though. Their circle didn't care for it, so it must be trash/no one watched it.
No one here talked about it in the streaming thread, even the people who said they liked the first part. Hell I thought it was coming out in January.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
I enjoyed the show, but freely admit Julia and Vicious are a hot mess.
The ending
attempts to redeem Julia by saying she was pretending to be a victim only to become a boss at the end, I guess? It's too little, too late, and smacks more of character assassination than anything, especially with her... blaming Spike and then shooting him? WTF?
Ironically, she was acting more like Vicious than Vicious was, if only in that last scene.
That said, I enjoyed it more than not, I just think they need to stop adapting the show and do more original stories. Maybe now they will.
I think that Ed could be OK in live action, they just need to tone down the feral anime wackiness. They can find a way to do silly and manic genius to annoy Spike without everybody hating it. I hope this becomes something like a "sonic the hedgehog has teeth" moment where the first version of the character really freaks people out so they redesign a little. Except in this case they don't need to delay anything since Season 2 surely isn't even written yet, or even greenlit.
I'd think that Netflix would rather take the heat from anime nerds for Ed not being close enough to the anime version than heat for Ed being cringey and uncomfortable in live action.
I also don't really get the criticism of Ed's race being white in the show. What's her race in the anime and is it important at all? She doesn't seem very Asian like Spike and Faye do. In fact I seem to remember Ed's dad being German or something?
I liked it. Never saw the anime, so with nothing to compare it to, I thought it was fun. Not great, the action in the pilot was pretty bad and the sad sack routine where every bounty is a giant fuck up got old really fast. The parts I really like are the ones everyone that's seen the anime hates. I thought Viscous was magnetic, his history with Spike was interesting, and the final twist was cool.
I really like how things went between Spike and Jet. That's my kind of drama.
+2
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KasynI'm not saying I don't like our chances.She called me the master.Registered Userregular
Ed's race has absolutely zero to do with how awful their limited time onscreen was.
I'm not sure exactly what, but I feel it says something about this production that nobody involved drew a line in the sand and said "you cannot let this catastrophe go live" re: Ed. It's very obvious that it doesn't work. Maybe they were somehow on the fence and decided to float this scene as a test so they could figure out how to approach the character for season 2?
I don't think it's some impossible puzzle, though. Ed was most certainly not like that every time she had screentime in the anime.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Ed's race has absolutely zero to do with how awful their limited time onscreen was.
I'm not sure exactly what, but I feel it says something about this production that nobody involved drew a line in the sand and said "you cannot let this catastrophe go live" re: Ed. It's very obvious that it doesn't work. Maybe they were somehow on the fence and decided to float this scene as a test so they could figure out how to approach the character for season 2?
I don't think it's some impossible puzzle, though. Ed was most certainly not like that every time she had screentime in the anime.
Love or hate Ed, Spike's reaction was perfect, and probably mirrored that of the audience.
Ed's race has absolutely zero to do with how awful their limited time onscreen was.
I'm not sure exactly what, but I feel it says something about this production that nobody involved drew a line in the sand and said "you cannot let this catastrophe go live" re: Ed. It's very obvious that it doesn't work. Maybe they were somehow on the fence and decided to float this scene as a test so they could figure out how to approach the character for season 2?
I don't think it's some impossible puzzle, though. Ed was most certainly not like that every time she had screentime in the anime.
Love or hate Ed, Spike's reaction was perfect, and probably mirrored that of the audience.
Personally
Me and Bulgarian girl were just happy that Ein hadn't been alone after they left him behind.
+4
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
If you're ever making a list of the best anime series of all time, Cowboy Bebop is going to be on every Top 10 list. I haven't watched the live-action show yet because the mixed reviews have scared me away. If it's not Top 10 material, why would I not just rewatch the original?
It's worth a shot to form your own judgement. The style, such as exists, is persistent, so if you like the first episode, you're going to like the later episodes.
My bottom line? It's outright crappy as a show and separately a massive failure as something trying to do the Cowboy Bebop story in any way.
I would watch something with this level of special effects. I would definitely watch something with most of these actors (the one for Vicious is a fuckawful match). Neither of those are the base problems. The problems lie in the show being obnoxiously reliant on cliche and tropes plus lots of shitty, clunky dialogue. The back-and-forth very very rarely feels any kind of natural, the cussing is forced as fuck, and somehow they've got extra runtime for extra dialogue but the dialogue is flat and saps life from the characters in general (mostly from being dull cliches or tediously obscene references). No way would I waste my time on this show, regardless of the source material. Even if it was totally unique, the show is awful.
As a retelling of the anime, it's much worse than that. They tried to do things their own way... and failed horribly. Everything they touch is straight-up worse than the original by a noticeable degree save for the music, which is about the same. Even there, the music in the original was scored enormously better, hitting just the right touches of wacky, poignant, and tragic at just the right moments. In this show, the music is largely slapped down wherever. Jet is almost good because his actor nails the role so incredibly well... except this version of Jet is altered stupidly from the original. And then there's a steep dropoff in character quality after him, with the bottom rung being very, very, very low.
It's a crappy show and a terrible rendition of Cowboy Bebop.
Ed's race has absolutely zero to do with how awful their limited time onscreen was.
I'm not sure exactly what, but I feel it says something about this production that nobody involved drew a line in the sand and said "you cannot let this catastrophe go live" re: Ed. It's very obvious that it doesn't work. Maybe they were somehow on the fence and decided to float this scene as a test so they could figure out how to approach the character for season 2?
I don't think it's some impossible puzzle, though. Ed was most certainly not like that every time she had screentime in the anime.
Love or hate Ed, Spike's reaction was perfect, and probably mirrored that of the audience.
In that he actively wanted to die in that moment?
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I haven't finished the live action series yet but it wouldn't be true to form if Ed wasn't cloying?
Like, as much as anime nerds say that Cowboy Bebop is their holy grail, it did in fact have flaws, and many people thought that Radical Edward's obnoxiousness was one of them.
Even if you like the character, she is cannonically extremely annoying to the crew of the Bebop. I say mission fucking accomplished.
I wouldn't use cloying, because I don't find the sweetness disgusting. She's still sweet, adorable, and a delight. Random, but not in an annoying way. Hell, most of the clips of other people being annoyed at her, they're annoyed more because they're trying to get something from her and she's just in her own world. She's not really actively annoying something most of the time.
New Ed? It took me a while to figure out exactly who and what that performance was reminding me of.
Pee Wee Herman.
But yeah. Even if you did your best to copy the anime version 100%, I don't know if it would work in live action. It might just look too ridiculous to see a flesh and blood person act like that. Like I don't know if you could do her signature "walk" without it looking silly. I mean, love to be proven wrong, but I'm skeptical.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
+6
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Trying to replicate Ed live-action was a terrible idea. Anime Ed is an overactive genius child cartoonishly over-exaggerated because it can work for the medium. For a live-action version, the overactive genius child part would've made for a workable version, but not a wretched cartoonishly over-exaggerated version. She's like some Boomer nightmare out of what they imagine kids are like on the various flavors of social media. Too loud! Annoying voices! Too much movement! Nonsense speech! Seriously, it's like a checklist of old people fears.
It's also bizarre that they changed everybody else, but Ed is the one they try to make a straight copy of. Which just underscores to me how poorly the showmakers understood the show or the characters because if any character actually could've done with some improvements, it was Ed.
Not to mention that she just gets dropped on Spike, literally in some nameless alley in the middle of nowhere important? How much lazier can the storytelling get? The intro to Ed was originally our intro to devastated post-Gate Earth and subsequently the explanation for why most humans lived elsewhere. But like so much of this live-action travesty, I guess it's fine to just ditch more backbone of the setting to shove a terrible rendition of one of the crew in at the end of the season as a lame hook.
Trying to replicate Ed live-action was a terrible idea. Anime Ed is an overactive genius child cartoonishly over-exaggerated because it can work for the medium. For a live-action version, the overactive genius child part would've made for a workable version, but not a wretched cartoonishly over-exaggerated version. She's like some Boomer nightmare out of what they imagine kids are like on the various flavors of social media. Too loud! Annoying voices! Too much movement! Nonsense speech! Seriously, it's like a checklist of old people fears.
It's also bizarre that they changed everybody else, but Ed is the one they try to make a straight copy of. Which just underscores to me how poorly the showmakers understood the show or the characters because if any character actually could've done with some improvements, it was Ed.
Not to mention that she just gets dropped on Spike, literally in some nameless alley in the middle of nowhere important? How much lazier can the storytelling get? The intro to Ed was originally our intro to devastated post-Gate Earth and subsequently the explanation for why most humans lived elsewhere. But like so much of this live-action travesty, I guess it's fine to just ditch more backbone of the setting to shove a terrible rendition of one of the crew in at the end of the season as a lame hook.
A big part of the problem I think is
Ed is a child. Like 8-10. They appear to have cast a grown ass woman to play her and that's made everything so much worse. It's not a child acting like a child anymore, its an adult acting as a child which is inherently annoying.
Trying to replicate Ed live-action was a terrible idea. Anime Ed is an overactive genius child cartoonishly over-exaggerated because it can work for the medium. For a live-action version, the overactive genius child part would've made for a workable version, but not a wretched cartoonishly over-exaggerated version. She's like some Boomer nightmare out of what they imagine kids are like on the various flavors of social media. Too loud! Annoying voices! Too much movement! Nonsense speech! Seriously, it's like a checklist of old people fears.
It's also bizarre that they changed everybody else, but Ed is the one they try to make a straight copy of. Which just underscores to me how poorly the showmakers understood the show or the characters because if any character actually could've done with some improvements, it was Ed.
Not to mention that she just gets dropped on Spike, literally in some nameless alley in the middle of nowhere important? How much lazier can the storytelling get? The intro to Ed was originally our intro to devastated post-Gate Earth and subsequently the explanation for why most humans lived elsewhere. But like so much of this live-action travesty, I guess it's fine to just ditch more backbone of the setting to shove a terrible rendition of one of the crew in at the end of the season as a lame hook.
A big part of the problem I think is
Ed is a child. Like 8-10. They appear to have cast a grown ass woman to play her and that's made everything so much worse. It's not a child acting like a child anymore, its an adult acting as a child which is inherently annoying.
Eden Perkins is 13.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
I enjoyed the first episode. We'll see how my mood goes for the rest of the series. Really wish my roommate would stop pissing and moaning about Faye's attire changes. It's like dude, the outfit really wasn't what made Faye and from what I remember, the actor seems to be hitting the things that matter for the character. I'm also pretty sure the outfit that the anime character had, probably would look like shit in a live action adaption.
I enjoyed the first episode. We'll see how my mood goes for the rest of the series. Really wish my roommate would stop pissing and moaning about Faye's attire changes. It's like dude, the outfit really wasn't what made Faye and from what I remember, the actor seems to be hitting the things that matter for the character. I'm also pretty sure the outfit that the anime character had, probably would look like shit in a live action adaption.
As a sort of theoretical thing I think an actress could make it work. Rebecca Romijn did a good job as Mystique while wearing nothing but blue paint and enough plastic bits to get the PG-13 rating. Practically speaking though I don't think there's enough tape and glue in the universe to hold things in place for any shot that is longer than five seconds.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
I enjoyed the first episode. We'll see how my mood goes for the rest of the series. Really wish my roommate would stop pissing and moaning about Faye's attire changes. It's like dude, the outfit really wasn't what made Faye and from what I remember, the actor seems to be hitting the things that matter for the character. I'm also pretty sure the outfit that the anime character had, probably would look like shit in a live action adaption.
As a sort of theoretical thing I think an actress could make it work. Rebecca Romijn did a good job as Mystique while wearing nothing but blue paint and enough plastic bits to get the PG-13 rating. Practically speaking though I don't think there's enough tape and glue in the universe to hold things in place for any shot that is longer than five seconds.
I had to go look this up and...yeah, I'm glad they changed it.
I enjoyed the first episode. We'll see how my mood goes for the rest of the series. Really wish my roommate would stop pissing and moaning about Faye's attire changes. It's like dude, the outfit really wasn't what made Faye and from what I remember, the actor seems to be hitting the things that matter for the character. I'm also pretty sure the outfit that the anime character had, probably would look like shit in a live action adaption.
As a sort of theoretical thing I think an actress could make it work. Rebecca Romijn did a good job as Mystique while wearing nothing but blue paint and enough plastic bits to get the PG-13 rating. Practically speaking though I don't think there's enough tape and glue in the universe to hold things in place for any shot that is longer than five seconds.
Also, there's the physical toll. One of the reasons the actress gave as to why the showrunners made the change, was the outfit they used was able to have, when needed, the padding or impact plates needed to stop her getting bruised or worse, during certain stunt/fight scenes.
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
I enjoyed the first episode. We'll see how my mood goes for the rest of the series. Really wish my roommate would stop pissing and moaning about Faye's attire changes. It's like dude, the outfit really wasn't what made Faye and from what I remember, the actor seems to be hitting the things that matter for the character. I'm also pretty sure the outfit that the anime character had, probably would look like shit in a live action adaption.
As a sort of theoretical thing I think an actress could make it work. Rebecca Romijn did a good job as Mystique while wearing nothing but blue paint and enough plastic bits to get the PG-13 rating. Practically speaking though I don't think there's enough tape and glue in the universe to hold things in place for any shot that is longer than five seconds.
Also, there's the physical toll. One of the reasons the actress gave as to why the showrunners made the change, was the outfit they used was able to have, when needed, the padding or impact plates needed to stop her getting bruised or worse, during certain stunt/fight scenes.
Yeah, there'd be enough scenes where the actress would be doing stunts in a slinky evening dress or something, don't need to have her every day walkaround garb provide zero protection too.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
When I got introduced to Cowboy Bebop by my most anime friend back when it was new on Adult Swim, the points he lampshaded as things to not let hold me up were Faye's outfit and Ed, so it isn't surprising these are friction points. But reading the various complaints feels a lot like reading complaints about various iterations of Star Trek to me.
I think what they did to the music was a huge problem. The more I watch the more irritated I am that the entire pace and mood of the episodes was set through the music. They didn't seem to understand that at all.
They didn't do that at all in the live action. The goofy trek to find a VHS player set to a whimsical flute. The entire episode with Hakeem, besides being changed to something awful story wise, had the music ripped from it.
The City of Lost Children had all the archetypes and weird characters that Cowboy Bebop would have needed. It did them extremely well even with the limitations of technology at the time. I really think Cowboy Bebop suffers from a sort of trying too hard to be a hip meme thing. The dialogue is okay (sometimes). The ship and camera work wasn't that bad, given what looks like CGI intentionally done to look like a shitty Nickelodeon set.
Nothing has been great, even one thing being great would really turn it around. Even Jet, who was nailed as a character had his story fucked with and made cliche for reasons.
Yup. Definitive gender statement there. Character self-identifies as a girl.
On another note, for good or ill, at least from that clip, I think the live action captured the manic weird of Ed pretty accurately.
Which is wht I have no problem with the adaption changing things for the other characters, and hope the introductionof Ed is her being overexcited and she's not that all the time. What might work for people who enjoy anime, can just look goofy as crap in live action.
But anyone who watched the Faye videotape episode and didn't walk away thinking well done is someone who is just looking to hate it.
The comparisons to Bunrakku are also not unfounded.
I haven't gotten that far yet but that's absolutely my favorite episode of the anime so I have high hopes
I would say it's easily the best episode of the adaptation as well. And part of that is that Faye's video is basically unaltered from the (dubbed version) anime.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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That said...
Also I know the technical reasons Ein can only be in a limited number of scenes, but I'm going to need them to put more Ein in.
No one here talked about it in the streaming thread, even the people who said they liked the first part. Hell I thought it was coming out in January.
The ending
Ironically, she was acting more like Vicious than Vicious was, if only in that last scene.
That said, I enjoyed it more than not, I just think they need to stop adapting the show and do more original stories. Maybe now they will.
I'd think that Netflix would rather take the heat from anime nerds for Ed not being close enough to the anime version than heat for Ed being cringey and uncomfortable in live action.
I also don't really get the criticism of Ed's race being white in the show. What's her race in the anime and is it important at all? She doesn't seem very Asian like Spike and Faye do. In fact I seem to remember Ed's dad being German or something?
I really like how things went between Spike and Jet. That's my kind of drama.
I'm not sure exactly what, but I feel it says something about this production that nobody involved drew a line in the sand and said "you cannot let this catastrophe go live" re: Ed. It's very obvious that it doesn't work. Maybe they were somehow on the fence and decided to float this scene as a test so they could figure out how to approach the character for season 2?
I don't think it's some impossible puzzle, though. Ed was most certainly not like that every time she had screentime in the anime.
Personally
It's worth a shot to form your own judgement. The style, such as exists, is persistent, so if you like the first episode, you're going to like the later episodes.
My bottom line? It's outright crappy as a show and separately a massive failure as something trying to do the Cowboy Bebop story in any way.
I would watch something with this level of special effects. I would definitely watch something with most of these actors (the one for Vicious is a fuckawful match). Neither of those are the base problems. The problems lie in the show being obnoxiously reliant on cliche and tropes plus lots of shitty, clunky dialogue. The back-and-forth very very rarely feels any kind of natural, the cussing is forced as fuck, and somehow they've got extra runtime for extra dialogue but the dialogue is flat and saps life from the characters in general (mostly from being dull cliches or tediously obscene references). No way would I waste my time on this show, regardless of the source material. Even if it was totally unique, the show is awful.
As a retelling of the anime, it's much worse than that. They tried to do things their own way... and failed horribly. Everything they touch is straight-up worse than the original by a noticeable degree save for the music, which is about the same. Even there, the music in the original was scored enormously better, hitting just the right touches of wacky, poignant, and tragic at just the right moments. In this show, the music is largely slapped down wherever. Jet is almost good because his actor nails the role so incredibly well... except this version of Jet is altered stupidly from the original. And then there's a steep dropoff in character quality after him, with the bottom rung being very, very, very low.
It's a crappy show and a terrible rendition of Cowboy Bebop.
It's an adaptation. Some things work well in the transition. Some do not.
Like, as much as anime nerds say that Cowboy Bebop is their holy grail, it did in fact have flaws, and many people thought that Radical Edward's obnoxiousness was one of them.
Even if you like the character, she is cannonically extremely annoying to the crew of the Bebop. I say mission fucking accomplished.
I wouldn't use cloying, because I don't find the sweetness disgusting. She's still sweet, adorable, and a delight. Random, but not in an annoying way. Hell, most of the clips of other people being annoyed at her, they're annoyed more because they're trying to get something from her and she's just in her own world. She's not really actively annoying something most of the time.
New Ed? It took me a while to figure out exactly who and what that performance was reminding me of.
Pee Wee Herman.
But yeah. Even if you did your best to copy the anime version 100%, I don't know if it would work in live action. It might just look too ridiculous to see a flesh and blood person act like that. Like I don't know if you could do her signature "walk" without it looking silly. I mean, love to be proven wrong, but I'm skeptical.
It's also bizarre that they changed everybody else, but Ed is the one they try to make a straight copy of. Which just underscores to me how poorly the showmakers understood the show or the characters because if any character actually could've done with some improvements, it was Ed.
A big part of the problem I think is
Eden Perkins is 13.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
As a sort of theoretical thing I think an actress could make it work. Rebecca Romijn did a good job as Mystique while wearing nothing but blue paint and enough plastic bits to get the PG-13 rating. Practically speaking though I don't think there's enough tape and glue in the universe to hold things in place for any shot that is longer than five seconds.
I had to go look this up and...yeah, I'm glad they changed it.
Also, there's the physical toll. One of the reasons the actress gave as to why the showrunners made the change, was the outfit they used was able to have, when needed, the padding or impact plates needed to stop her getting bruised or worse, during certain stunt/fight scenes.
Yeah, there'd be enough scenes where the actress would be doing stunts in a slinky evening dress or something, don't need to have her every day walkaround garb provide zero protection too.
Nothing has been great, even one thing being great would really turn it around. Even Jet, who was nailed as a character had his story fucked with and made cliche for reasons.
We didn't really have that language in common use then, which also speaks to the Gren situation.
Yup. Definitive gender statement there. Character self-identifies as a girl.
On another note, for good or ill, at least from that clip, I think the live action captured the manic weird of Ed pretty accurately.
Which is wht I have no problem with the adaption changing things for the other characters, and hope the introductionof Ed is her being overexcited and she's not that all the time. What might work for people who enjoy anime, can just look goofy as crap in live action.
But anyone who watched the Faye videotape episode and didn't walk away thinking well done is someone who is just looking to hate it.
The comparisons to Bunrakku are also not unfounded.
I haven't gotten that far yet but that's absolutely my favorite episode of the anime so I have high hopes
I would say it's easily the best episode of the adaptation as well. And part of that is that Faye's video is basically unaltered from the (dubbed version) anime.
I respectfully disagree. Anime Ed is my favorite character, I have tattoos of those little smiley face things.
Live Ed was physically painful. I watched through my fingers with my face contorted into maximum grimace mode.
Maybe I was never going to be happy, that’s fair. But I didn’t have to be this unhappy.