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State of the Union 2007 Thread thread

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    Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited January 2007
    Jragghen wrote:
    Kubby lol.

    Like most Libertarian screeds, I agree with the content of about 50% of it, and the tone of about none of it.

    Irond Will on
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    DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Jragghen wrote:

    Well his closing "Let Freedom Grow!" is a bit weak. The speech could've used some work there.

    All in all I found it to be a little self-serving (We're libertarian so what we think is right is what we "know"). Also as always a large misunderstanding of the invisible hand theory that runs rampant in the Lib. party. *shrug*

    Derrick on
    Steam and CFN: Enexemander
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    Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Shinto wrote:
    TDP is cool and all, but it doesn't do much for fixing climate change issues.
    It does do a hell of a lot for landfilling and toxic waste disposal, not to mention the global social and economic benefits of free energy. Can't have it all.

    That's really what irritates me most about environmental policy: nothing is ever, ever good enough. No one's willing to embrace half-measures as stepping stones.

    Salvation122 on
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    Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited January 2007
    It does do a hell of a lot for landfilling and toxic waste disposal, not to mention the global social and economic benefits of free energy. Can't have it all.

    That's really what irritates me most about environmental policy: nothing is ever, ever good enough. No one's willing to embrace half-measures as stepping stones.
    I agree. I think, for instance, that nuclear would be an excellent stopgap for our energy independence. To be fair, that's a larger problem with most idealistic groups.

    I'd go along with public funding more TDP pilots, though it's hard to understand why venture capital hasn't moved in to the niche.

    Irond Will on
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    Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Irond Will wrote:
    It does do a hell of a lot for landfilling and toxic waste disposal, not to mention the global social and economic benefits of free energy. Can't have it all.

    That's really what irritates me most about environmental policy: nothing is ever, ever good enough. No one's willing to embrace half-measures as stepping stones.
    I agree. I think, for instance, that nuclear would be an excellent stopgap for our energy independence. To be fair, that's a larger problem with most idealistic groups.

    I'd go along with public funding more TDP pilots, though it's hard to understand why venture capital hasn't moved in to the niche.
    They're still completely privately held. They're not courting investors.

    Salvation122 on
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    Target PracticeTarget Practice Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Shinto wrote:
    TDP is cool and all, but it doesn't do much for fixing climate change issues.
    It does do a hell of a lot for landfilling and toxic waste disposal, not to mention the global social and economic benefits of free energy. Can't have it all.

    That's really what irritates me most about environmental policy: nothing is ever, ever good enough. No one's willing to embrace half-measures as stepping stones.
    I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't "embrace" half-measures as stepping stones because I cannot honestly believe they will be treated as stepping stones. There is to my mind no reason to believe we won't just languish there until the stone "sinks".

    The same, incidentally, goes for nuclear power. Concerns about nuclear waste and all aside, I see no reason to believe we won't just come to rely on it until we start running out of fissionable materials, and then we'll just panic and come up with another stopgap that'll work for another 50 years.

    Target Practice on
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    ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited January 2007
    That's really what irritates me most about environmental policy: nothing is ever, ever good enough. No one's willing to embrace half-measures as stepping stones.
    I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't "embrace" half-measures as stepping stones because I cannot honestly believe they will be treated as stepping stones. There is to my mind no reason to believe we won't just languish there until the stone "sinks".

    The same, incidentally, goes for nuclear power. Concerns about nuclear waste and all aside, I see no reason to believe we won't just come to rely on it until we start running out of fissionable materials, and then we'll just panic and come up with another stopgap that'll work for another 50 years.[/quote]

    You're aware that the alternative is to pretty much never do anything, and have shit a whole lot worse off, right? Your choices are:

    A) Baby steps laced with compromises, or
    B) Doing nothing while bitching ineffectually that nothing is getting done.

    There is no C) get exactly what you want with no compromises whatsoever, because not everybody wants the same things you do.

    ElJeffe on
    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
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    ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2007
    Shinto wrote:
    TDP is cool and all, but it doesn't do much for fixing climate change issues.
    It does do a hell of a lot for landfilling and toxic waste disposal, not to mention the global social and economic benefits of free energy. Can't have it all.

    That's really what irritates me most about environmental policy: nothing is ever, ever good enough. No one's willing to embrace half-measures as stepping stones.

    That's cool and all, but those other things aren't half the threat that global warming is?

    Shinto on
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    Target PracticeTarget Practice Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    ElJeffe wrote:
    That's really what irritates me most about environmental policy: nothing is ever, ever good enough. No one's willing to embrace half-measures as stepping stones.
    I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't "embrace" half-measures as stepping stones because I cannot honestly believe they will be treated as stepping stones. There is to my mind no reason to believe we won't just languish there until the stone "sinks".

    The same, incidentally, goes for nuclear power. Concerns about nuclear waste and all aside, I see no reason to believe we won't just come to rely on it until we start running out of fissionable materials, and then we'll just panic and come up with another stopgap that'll work for another 50 years.

    You're aware that the alternative is to pretty much never do anything, and have shit a whole lot worse off, right? Your choices are:

    A) Baby steps laced with compromises, or
    B) Doing nothing while bitching ineffectually that nothing is getting done.

    There is no C) get exactly what you want with no compromises whatsoever, because not everybody wants the same things you do.
    And what I'm saying is that I choose A with extremely heavy reservations.

    Especially because to me it's closer to "tortoise steps" than "baby steps".

    Target Practice on
    sig.gif
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    Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Shinto wrote:
    Shinto wrote:
    TDP is cool and all, but it doesn't do much for fixing climate change issues.
    It does do a hell of a lot for landfilling and toxic waste disposal, not to mention the global social and economic benefits of free energy. Can't have it all.

    That's really what irritates me most about environmental policy: nothing is ever, ever good enough. No one's willing to embrace half-measures as stepping stones.
    That's cool and all, but those other things aren't half the threat that global warming is?
    No, dude. War and poverty are both often the result of the scarcity of energy. Free energy would greatly diminish both, and both are a far larger threat to humanity than global warming.

    Salvation122 on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Shinto wrote:
    Shinto wrote:
    TDP is cool and all, but it doesn't do much for fixing climate change issues.
    It does do a hell of a lot for landfilling and toxic waste disposal, not to mention the global social and economic benefits of free energy. Can't have it all.

    That's really what irritates me most about environmental policy: nothing is ever, ever good enough. No one's willing to embrace half-measures as stepping stones.
    That's cool and all, but those other things aren't half the threat that global warming is?
    No, dude. War and poverty are both often the result of the scarcity of energy. Free energy would greatly diminish both, and both are a far larger threat to humanity than global warming.
    Only if you don't believe scientists.

    Also, everyone seems to think the SotU was really good.

    Did they watch a different speech than the one I saw, or were they just viewing it in a vacuum?

    Thanatos on
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    Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited January 2007
    Thanatos wrote:
    Also, everyone seems to think the SotU was really good.

    Did they watch a different speech than the one I saw, or were they just viewing it in a vacuum?
    The NPR reports I heard today pretty much agreed that it was pretty terrible and were reading all sorts of things about Bush being a lame duck into it.

    Irond Will on
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    YarYar Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Irond Will wrote:
    The NPR reports I heard today pretty much agreed that it was pretty terrible and were reading all sorts of things about Bush being a lame duck into it.
    That wasn't a report, it was an editorial from one of the more liberal opinionators that they ever bring on the news. And even he gave it "1 cheer" for progress on health care.

    Yar on
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    Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited January 2007
    Yar wrote:
    Irond Will wrote:
    The NPR reports I heard today pretty much agreed that it was pretty terrible and were reading all sorts of things about Bush being a lame duck into it.
    That wasn't a report, it was an editorial from one of the more liberal opinionators that they ever bring on the news. And even he gave it "1 cheer" for progress on health care.
    Yeah, the one on All Things Considered was, but there was also a panel on On Point. I'm not sure if it's carried widely outside of New England.

    Irond Will on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Irond Will wrote:
    Thanatos wrote:
    Also, everyone seems to think the SotU was really good.

    Did they watch a different speech than the one I saw, or were they just viewing it in a vacuum?
    The NPR reports I heard today pretty much agreed that it was pretty terrible and were reading all sorts of things about Bush being a lame duck into it.
    I heard something like 41% of those polled thought it was "very good" and 37% thought it was "good," or something like that.

    Thanatos on
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    DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Thanatos wrote:
    Irond Will wrote:
    Thanatos wrote:
    Also, everyone seems to think the SotU was really good.

    Did they watch a different speech than the one I saw, or were they just viewing it in a vacuum?
    The NPR reports I heard today pretty much agreed that it was pretty terrible and were reading all sorts of things about Bush being a lame duck into it.
    I heard something like 41% of those polled thought it was "very good" and 37% thought it was "good," or something like that.

    The road to mediocrity is built on low expectations.

    Derrick on
    Steam and CFN: Enexemander
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    ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2007
    Thanatos wrote:
    Irond Will wrote:
    Thanatos wrote:
    Also, everyone seems to think the SotU was really good.

    Did they watch a different speech than the one I saw, or were they just viewing it in a vacuum?
    The NPR reports I heard today pretty much agreed that it was pretty terrible and were reading all sorts of things about Bush being a lame duck into it.
    I heard something like 41% of those polled thought it was "very good" and 37% thought it was "good," or something like that.

    I would submit that there is sample bias. Those who support the president were more likely to tune in and watch than those who didn't.

    Shinto on
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