Curiosity question: this "suspension with hooks and shit" is about being held off the ground by pieces of metal pierced through flesh, yeah? So, I saw someone do that at a Jim Rose show about a decade ago, and it definitely seemed to carry the DO-NOT-TRY-THIS-AT-HOME caveat of much of the rest of the show. Has it gotten to the point that such activities are common enough that one could expect to experience such a thing cleanly and safely in a (relatively) routine recreational setting? Or does one engage a highly specialized professional in very controlled circumstances?
Or am I misunderstanding, and you're talking about some different kind of suspension?
I'm guessing there are clubs. Of course, people will also do stupid things. That doesn't mean that everything that can be done stupidly is in itself stupid.
--
There is a .org website on suspension, but I'm not linking it because while it has tons of useful stuff, I'm sure, there's fucking eye-sewing.
Curiosity question: this "suspension with hooks and shit" is about being held off the ground by pieces of metal pierced through flesh, yeah? So, I saw someone do that at a Jim Rose show about a decade ago, and it definitely seemed to carry the DO-NOT-TRY-THIS-AT-HOME caveat of much of the rest of the show. Has it gotten to the point that such activities are common enough that one could expect to experience such a thing cleanly and safely in a (relatively) routine recreational setting? Or does one engage a highly specialized professional in very controlled circumstances?
Or am I misunderstanding, and you're talking about some different kind of suspension?
Generally unless you are an expert yourself, it's a thing you do with specialized equipment, supervision, etc, maybe at a club or something.
I don't really know much about it. I can't look at the pictures for long enough to really absorb the information.
Seriously, I have a pretty strong stomach for weird shit but that is terrifying.
I'm guessing there are clubs. Of course, people will also do stupid things. That doesn't mean that everything that can be done stupidly is in itself stupid.
--
There is a .org website on suspension, but I'm not linking it because while it has tons of useful stuff, I'm sure, there's fucking eye-sewing.
Man, some people took the phrase "torture porn" WAAAAAY too seriously.
I like the way you refer to being hung from hooks as a "kink". It's like when someone will get strung out on Ex at a rave and say they "partied" or plowed/got plowed by someone they just met and said they "hooked up".
For whatever reason, "kink" just doesn't quite describe it.
Actually, "kink" exactly describes it. Are you able to tell us why you think that people who enjoy games that you don't are broken?
I'm baffled that furryism is one of the most benign kinks/fetishes and also one of the most despised.
It's the combination of damaging the memories of beloved cartoon characters, the similarity to mainstream fandoms, and the fact that it includes -everything-.
Somewhere someone is being suspended while in a fursuit while being gang-banged by people in wookie masks and orc armor.
Also they get a lot more sex than the other fandoms. And not just with plushies.
Incenjucar on
0
Options
ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
I'm baffled that furryism is one of the most benign kinks/fetishes and also one of the most despised.
Because to a lot of people it falls very close to bestiality. It's not the same thing, nor am I claiming that furries are out looking for vulnerable sheep, but the visceral reaction is to equate the two.
I like the way you refer to being hung from hooks as a "kink". It's like when someone will get strung out on Ex at a rave and say they "partied" or plowed/got plowed by someone they just met and said they "hooked up".
For whatever reason, "kink" just doesn't quite describe it.
Actually, "kink" exactly describes it. Are you able to tell us why you think that people who enjoy games that you don't are broken?
Well, people who engage in extreme forms of body modification or potentially harmful activities like running hooks through your flesh are often emotionally unwell. If you derive sexual pleasure from sewing your eyes or mouth shut, self-amputating, or other intensely masochistic activities like cutting or smashing parts of yourself you don't have a "kink," you have a legitimate mental illness that needs to be addressed. Granted many cultures and sub-cultures participate in body modification rituals ranging from circumcision and ear-piercing to lip disks and neck extensions, but such things are not generally the result of an individual's sexual compulsion.
I think that for the most part people need to leave each others' shit alone when it comes to bedroom activities, but there is a line where the line between "play" and "mutilation/self-harm" become blurred, and sometimes you need to call a spade a spade. But the overwhelming majority of people who participate in BDSM activities do so in a safe, controlled environment within the context of monogamous partnerships. In fact "normal" casual sex is often more self-destructive than most so-called sexual deviancies, even though casual sex is not culturally (or biologically) aberrant. And not just because of the risk of unwanted pregnancy or STDs. Sexual addiction is a legitimate illness, not a sign of moral inadequacy, and sexual violence does not necessarily require actual violence.
Everybody has little quirks, and the best way to "deal" with them is to respect and understand how other people express affection, even if it seems bizarre or viscerally unsettling, so long as they aren't putting themselves or others in danger. Similarly, different people have different levels of sexual desire, and when one person in a relationship "needs" more sexual gratification than their partner is willing to return, things like pornography and sex toys can be a perfectly healthy alternative. It's certainly better than begging for sex or applying guilt, which is what most (stupid) people do. If someone participates in destructive sexual behavior in order to avoid dealing with other underlying issues, that is certainly a problem. People who are psychologically disturbed can be drawn to sex as a form of release, and that release can become a dangerous compulsion that should be addressed. But condemning people with different sexual appetites out-of-hand as being "wrong" or "bad" is just plain fucking ignorant.
And yeah EM your friend sounds a little messed up. Obviously being more sexually open sounds like it's helping him deal with some issues, but if he's actually loving "pain" that much he probably needs to throttle back a bit and find a therapist.
Zimmydoom, Zimmydoom
Flew away in a balloon
Had sex with polar bears
While sitting in a reclining chair
Now there are Zim-Bear hybrids
Running around and clawing eyelids
Watch out, a Zim-Bear is about to have sex with yooooooou!
Zimmydoom, Zimmydoom
Flew away in a balloon
Had sex with polar bears
While sitting in a reclining chair
Now there are Zim-Bear hybrids
Running around and clawing eyelids
Watch out, a Zim-Bear is about to have sex with yooooooou!
Well, people who engage in extreme forms of body modification or potentially harmful activities like running hooks through your flesh are often emotionally unwell. If you derive sexual pleasure from sewing your eyes or mouth shut, self-amputating, or other intensely masochistic activities like cutting or smashing parts of yourself you don't have a "kink," you have a legitimate mental illness that needs to be addressed. Granted many cultures and sub-cultures participate in body modification rituals ranging from circumcision and ear-piercing to lip disks and neck extensions, but such things are not generally the result of an individual's sexual compulsion.
...
And yeah EM your friend sounds a little messed up. Obviously being more sexually open sounds like it's helping him deal with some issues, but if he's actually loving "pain" that much he probably needs to throttle back a bit and find a therapist.
Am I the only person who took "hooks" to mean eye-bolts fixed in a ceiling (ideally in studs) + rope, then?
That's what I initially thought too, so who knows. Obviously there's nothing dangerous about that other than maybe a little vertigo. :P But the whole Hellraiser thing is maybe a little extreme.
Zimmydoom, Zimmydoom
Flew away in a balloon
Had sex with polar bears
While sitting in a reclining chair
Now there are Zim-Bear hybrids
Running around and clawing eyelids
Watch out, a Zim-Bear is about to have sex with yooooooou!
Honestly I used to think suspension just meant being fucked on a swing or something.
Though I was aware of the actual suspension thing as well, as it was on some late night news show awhile back.
Really just strikes me as a weird things some people find fun hey more power to'em hope they don't fuck it up though it's still probably safer than mountain climbing.
--
You guys know they have eye tattoos and gold inlays for the white of you eye now, right?
Am I the only person who took "hooks" to mean eye-bolts fixed in a ceiling (ideally in studs) + rope, then?
That's what I initially thought too, so who knows. Obviously there's nothing dangerous about that other than maybe a little vertigo. :P But the whole Hellraiser thing is maybe a little extreme.
Actually if you do it stupidly it's potentially very dangerous. Circulation is important to continued living, especially during moments of severely heightened blood-pressure?
Well, people who engage in extreme forms of body modification or potentially harmful activities like running hooks through your flesh are often emotionally unwell. If you derive sexual pleasure from sewing your eyes or mouth shut, self-amputating, or other intensely masochistic activities like cutting or smashing parts of yourself you don't have a "kink," you have a legitimate mental illness that needs to be addressed. Granted many cultures and sub-cultures participate in body modification rituals ranging from circumcision and ear-piercing to lip disks and neck extensions, but such things are not generally the result of an individual's sexual compulsion.
...
And yeah EM your friend sounds a little messed up. Obviously being more sexually open sounds like it's helping him deal with some issues, but if he's actually loving "pain" that much he probably needs to throttle back a bit and find a therapist.
This
You don't think that extreme body modification or receiving sexual release from physical trauma is potentially a sign of emotional instability or self-destructive tendencies? Cutting yourself or having your nuts stomped on is OK if it gets you off?
A quick internet search on eye sewing showed off some pretty horrific and dangerous forms of "shaping" that border on mutilation. Clipping your own ears with a pair of scissors and then stapling them to form an elfen point isn't a "kink," it's a bloody mess. And I didn't mean to suggest that such activities are only "bad" when performed for sexual gratification; there is no justification for lip disks or neck extensions, especially when such things are forced on young people as they are in some cultures. Sometimes they're done as tests of "strength" or "character," everybody's seen the episode of Ripley's where some guy pulls a truck with hooks through his back. Every case is a little bit different and should be treated as such.
But there is a great danger inherent in allowing particularly violent activities to become too openly accepted when the participants are not only putting themselves at risk, but potentially encouraging others to follow suit. So-called "support groups" for people with eating disorders who encourage young girls to starve themselves are a well-known example. There needs to be a healthy skepticism applied to masochistic behavior to ensure that vulnerable individuals aren't abused or dissuaded from seeking much needed help. If EM's friend is in fact emotionally "well" and his pain fetish isn't related to any underlying issues then I guess it's fine to go at it, but you need to at least ask the question to make sure he isn't just hurting himself for no good reason and that he knows where to stop. I don't think that's at all unreasonable.
Zimmydoom, Zimmydoom
Flew away in a balloon
Had sex with polar bears
While sitting in a reclining chair
Now there are Zim-Bear hybrids
Running around and clawing eyelids
Watch out, a Zim-Bear is about to have sex with yooooooou!
Alright, you backpedaled a bit from your "if you...then you have a legitimate mental illness" statement.
Of course it's important to help people and make sure they don't damage themselves and remain in control and are safe etc etc. But I don't think it's a logical step to say "you like your nuts smashed, you must be mentally ill."
Medopine on
0
Options
ZimmydoomAccept no substitutesRegistered Userregular
Am I the only person who took "hooks" to mean eye-bolts fixed in a ceiling (ideally in studs) + rope, then?
That's what I initially thought too, so who knows. Obviously there's nothing dangerous about that other than maybe a little vertigo. :P But the whole Hellraiser thing is maybe a little extreme.
Actually if you do it stupidly it's potentially very dangerous. Circulation is important to continued living, especially during moments of severely heightened blood-pressure?
Well you shouldn't be doing any of this without adequate equipment and safety precautions. I meant there isn't anything inherent to harness-suspension that would indicate self-destructive tendencies that might need to be addressed. Suspension-by-hooks because you enjoy the pain, on the other hand, is an extreme enough activity that you should probably be a bit more cautious, for your emotional if not just your physical well-being.
Zimmydoom, Zimmydoom
Flew away in a balloon
Had sex with polar bears
While sitting in a reclining chair
Now there are Zim-Bear hybrids
Running around and clawing eyelids
Watch out, a Zim-Bear is about to have sex with yooooooou!
0
Options
ZimmydoomAccept no substitutesRegistered Userregular
Alright, you backpedaled a bit from your "if you...then you have a legitimate mental illness" statement.
Of course it's important to help people and make sure they don't damage themselves and remain in control and are safe etc etc. But I don't think it's a logical step to say "you like your nuts smashed, you must be mentally ill."
I'm not backpeddling from anything. Deriving sexual gratification from having extraordinary violence performed on you is about as big a red-flag as you can get. Having your testicles crushed causes most men to pass out or throw up from the pain; it is not an inherently enjoyable activity. There are likely individuals out there who are simply wired differently and have different physical reactions to violent stimuli, but it's dangerous enough under the best of conditions that you need to ask the damn question, "are you OK?"
And saying that someone has a "mental illness" isn't a value judgment unless you make it one. I'm not ostracizing or degrading anyone, I'm saying that because there is a significant potential link between self-abuse and "pain fetish" that, for the safety of the person who engages in such activities, they should at least look into counseling to make sure there isn't something else driving their compulsion. There is nothing wrong with needing help. People who engage in BDSM take precaution against the very real physical dangers inherent to certain activities; there shouldn't be anything controversial in suggesting they take the same precautions with their emotional health.
Zimmydoom, Zimmydoom
Flew away in a balloon
Had sex with polar bears
While sitting in a reclining chair
Now there are Zim-Bear hybrids
Running around and clawing eyelids
Watch out, a Zim-Bear is about to have sex with yooooooou!
Yes and no. The sub has the option to end the situation. But the dom has it as well. As a dom I wouldn't safeword out of the scene, I would either bring it to a gradual end or if I felt it was very out of hand, stop it quickly. So the sub doesn't have any power the dom doesn't also have. The sub is just more likely to use it. And then I have control within the scene itself.
It's safer to say that the sub doesn't give up all of their power. And it's not a completely passive dynamic in a scene as well. From my experience, many of the subs I have met would be considered stubborn by mule standards. And it's not unknown for a scene to become a battle of wills. I've watched inexperienced doms get pushed around by experienced subs. Or sometimes the sub just wants to see if the dom is paying attention and decides being a brat is an option. There are ways to deal with that.
I can agree with your perspective, the amount of sub text between the two people can be fascinating. Not something that is really my taste. However a lot of people seem to make more out of pain play, rope play, than there really is.
Sure you can take the extremes of knife play and say no way in hell would you ever be tied up and let someone go at you with sharp objects. However that person is (hopefully) a highly trained professional, and your looking at surface cuts. If it does not turn you on, don't worry about it.
The key point here is that while there is a lot of weird stuff people do to get off as long a everyone unvolved is a consenting adult and no one dies then who cares?
Am I the only person who took "hooks" to mean eye-bolts fixed in a ceiling (ideally in studs) + rope, then?
That's what I initially thought too, so who knows. Obviously there's nothing dangerous about that other than maybe a little vertigo. :P But the whole Hellraiser thing is maybe a little extreme.
Actually if you do it stupidly it's potentially very dangerous. Circulation is important to continued living, especially during moments of severely heightened blood-pressure?
Well you shouldn't be doing any of this without adequate equipment and safety precautions. I meant there isn't anything inherent to harness-suspension that would indicate self-destructive tendencies that might need to be addressed. Suspension-by-hooks because you enjoy the pain, on the other hand, is an extreme enough activity that you should probably be a bit more cautious, for your emotional if not just your physical well-being.
I have friends that do this, suspensions and double suspensions (one person hanging from another) etc. One of thier friends owns a tattoo and piercing place, and the back room is set up with a rig attached to the ceiling. One uses large surgical needle hooks on specific places on the body (so they dont rip out, which can happen if you aren't careful) The double suspend I saw was four hooks, two on the back and two on the legs, and then another set for lucky pierre on his chest and thighs.
Aside from the piercing part, which hurts (but not as much as you would suspect, once you get the way of it, the pain is secondary to the feeling of pressure) buddy claims the suspension as intense, but peaceful, with a feeling of weightlessness. Akin to skydiving, or antigrav. It wasn't a sexual thing, though I'm sure you could turn it into one (The Cell comes to mind), more of a limit testing thing. It looked fun actually, I've been tempted to give it a try.
It's interesting that pain is such a big deal to some people, when to others its just.. well its not. Its just another sensation like warmth or cold. So the activities seem very striking, but to the people involved, it's not as big a thing as its made out to be by uninitiated onlookers.
I suppose "pain" is generally an undesireable or unexpected thing though - associated with "damage". When it becomes expected or controlled or indeed desired, then I'm not sure "pain" is quite the right term for it except that the feeling is closely related to something we might normally not want.
It just makes sense what ELM is saying. Pain is bad, so liking pain is bad. Just like we're all supposed to be omnivores, period. Flat teeth and sharp teeth with eyes forward. Vegans probably are suffering from some illness that has them deny this. And gay people, WAAAAY against nature. People that don't want kids at all fall under this category as well...
Before this goes any further, my point is that, "No. It's silly to derive that because involuntary, unwilling bodily harm can be a bad thing, it must be a mentally ill person who derives please from that experience."
Like, everyone who finds furries hot are mentally ill, of course. Rape fantasies, put 'em in strong therapy. And if you actualy garner satisfation from putting on special skintight clothes, strapping manufactured air onto your back, and diving into the middle of the ocean with dangerous creatures all around you?
I suppose "pain" is generally an undesireable or unexpected thing though - associated with "damage". When it becomes expected or controlled or indeed desired, then I'm not sure "pain" is quite the right term for it except that the feeling is closely related to something we might normally not want.
Very true. In the community, the term widely used is sensation, as in 'hooking a car battery up to your nipple causes some intense sensations'. Pain is then often used to describe unexpected or unpleasent events.
I'm always reminded of a Simpsons clip, the one where Bart steals Hitler's car. He drives through a side show, where Impervo is busy driving nails into his face. The car rolls over Impervo's foot, and he's like 'ow ow ow ow'. Classic.
One of the most darkly funny things ever is when this girl I was talking with online, who was a cutter, accidentally dropped her knife, while she was cutting herself, and stabbed her knee a bit, and she bitched about it the rest of the evening.
It just makes sense what ELM is saying. Pain is bad, so liking pain is bad. Just like we're all supposed to be omnivores, period. Flat teeth and sharp teeth with eyes forward. Vegans probably are suffering from some illness that has them deny this. And gay people, WAAAAY against nature. People that don't want kids at all fall under this category as well...
Before this goes any further, my point is that, "No. It's silly to derive that because involuntary, unwilling bodily harm can be a bad thing, it must be a mentally ill person who derives please from that experience."
Like, everyone who finds furries hot are mentally ill, of course. Rape fantasies, put 'em in strong therapy. And if you actualy garner satisfation from putting on special skintight clothes, strapping manufactured air onto your back, and diving into the middle of the ocean with dangerous creatures all around you?
MENTAL ILLNESS.
Don't worry about those haters, ELM. I get you.
Don't forget how anyone who plays GTA4 is clearly a violent psychopath and needs to be locked away in the closest thing to Arkham that we can find. No sane person can enjoy playing pretend about things that they wouldn't want to happen for real.
There are so many posts in these last few that border on being reportable for awesome, but require the context of the entire thread to be funny enough. Well done, regardless.
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited November 2008
The DSM-IV, the official American Psychological Association handbook for diagnosing somebody as "mentally ill" includes an assessment of the persons functioning in normal society as one of it's diagnostic criteria.
In other words, you can do whatever the fuck you like, if you remain a healthy individual, have a job, a home, can feed yourself, and it's not hurting (hah) you, it's not enough just to have all the symptoms.
It has to be actively hurting you, the individual, in your daily traverses through the great quest that is life.
There's also a massive amount of debate on wether or not people should be labelled as a "disorder" or "mental illness" at all.
So people who label other's as "mentally ill" when the person in question considers themselves fine and dandy are talking out their ass. They're also straying close to the same type of thinking found in prejudice situations. Race and sex are not the only "preconditions" to be a prejudgmental dick.
That's all I wanted to say.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I don't especially have a problem with any kind or fetish, but you know this 'lol GTA, lol scubadiving' thing you're doing is just rhetoric, right? I mean, if I say Guantanamo Bay is wrong, and the USA is bad for countenancing it, then you can just go 'And I suppose having free speech is wrong too, huh?'
It doesn't make S&M awesome or evil to mention that there's ignorant discrimination towards other stuff.
For me, I suppose the problem is that (comparative) acceptance of BDSM has been very recent. It's all about pain, which seems something fundamental - so fundamental that utilitarians use avoiding suffering as the base of their philosophy. It's very hard for someone who has experience of real pain to understand that for others the signal sometimes means something different, with no adverse effects, emotional or social.
I just would like to see more BDSM people go through their whole live, cradle to grave, and be able to live the full range of human experiences (e.g raising kids) and be just fine. Then we can be more sure that there really is no problem, that is causes you no harm.
In fact, if you know more than me about this, you might know of some people who have. For example, William Burroughs was always a useful example against anti-drug people. Edumacate me please.
Note that this isn't code for 'I think they should all be killed, actually'.
Posh: BDSM isn't much rarer than oral sex. You probably pass by people who play around with it every single day. They just don't tell you about their sex life much. And some of them are also chronic pain sufferers. S&M practices can actually be useful in helping you DEAL with chronic pain.
Posh: BDSM isn't much rarer than oral sex. You probably pass by people who play around with it every single day. They just don't tell you about their sex life much. And some of them are also chronic pain sufferers. S&M practices can actually be useful in helping you DEAL with chronic pain.
I know that it's pretty common but I don't believe it's as common as oral sex.
And please stop assuming that this is about a lack of knowledge. I don't think my misgivings are about that.
Posts
Or am I misunderstanding, and you're talking about some different kind of suspension?
--
There is a .org website on suspension, but I'm not linking it because while it has tons of useful stuff, I'm sure, there's fucking eye-sewing.
Generally unless you are an expert yourself, it's a thing you do with specialized equipment, supervision, etc, maybe at a club or something.
I don't really know much about it. I can't look at the pictures for long enough to really absorb the information.
Seriously, I have a pretty strong stomach for weird shit but that is terrifying.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
Except furries.
I got a pity hug from a biker once.
As long as they don't, like, start humping my leg or anything.
But to be honest, I have that rule for everyone I meet.
I mean, yeah, it's weird as hell, but...meh. It's not like it's hurting anyone really.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
Actually, "kink" exactly describes it. Are you able to tell us why you think that people who enjoy games that you don't are broken?
It's the combination of damaging the memories of beloved cartoon characters, the similarity to mainstream fandoms, and the fact that it includes -everything-.
Somewhere someone is being suspended while in a fursuit while being gang-banged by people in wookie masks and orc armor.
Also they get a lot more sex than the other fandoms. And not just with plushies.
Because to a lot of people it falls very close to bestiality. It's not the same thing, nor am I claiming that furries are out looking for vulnerable sheep, but the visceral reaction is to equate the two.
Well, people who engage in extreme forms of body modification or potentially harmful activities like running hooks through your flesh are often emotionally unwell. If you derive sexual pleasure from sewing your eyes or mouth shut, self-amputating, or other intensely masochistic activities like cutting or smashing parts of yourself you don't have a "kink," you have a legitimate mental illness that needs to be addressed. Granted many cultures and sub-cultures participate in body modification rituals ranging from circumcision and ear-piercing to lip disks and neck extensions, but such things are not generally the result of an individual's sexual compulsion.
I think that for the most part people need to leave each others' shit alone when it comes to bedroom activities, but there is a line where the line between "play" and "mutilation/self-harm" become blurred, and sometimes you need to call a spade a spade. But the overwhelming majority of people who participate in BDSM activities do so in a safe, controlled environment within the context of monogamous partnerships. In fact "normal" casual sex is often more self-destructive than most so-called sexual deviancies, even though casual sex is not culturally (or biologically) aberrant. And not just because of the risk of unwanted pregnancy or STDs. Sexual addiction is a legitimate illness, not a sign of moral inadequacy, and sexual violence does not necessarily require actual violence.
Everybody has little quirks, and the best way to "deal" with them is to respect and understand how other people express affection, even if it seems bizarre or viscerally unsettling, so long as they aren't putting themselves or others in danger. Similarly, different people have different levels of sexual desire, and when one person in a relationship "needs" more sexual gratification than their partner is willing to return, things like pornography and sex toys can be a perfectly healthy alternative. It's certainly better than begging for sex or applying guilt, which is what most (stupid) people do. If someone participates in destructive sexual behavior in order to avoid dealing with other underlying issues, that is certainly a problem. People who are psychologically disturbed can be drawn to sex as a form of release, and that release can become a dangerous compulsion that should be addressed. But condemning people with different sexual appetites out-of-hand as being "wrong" or "bad" is just plain fucking ignorant.
And yeah EM your friend sounds a little messed up. Obviously being more sexually open sounds like it's helping him deal with some issues, but if he's actually loving "pain" that much he probably needs to throttle back a bit and find a therapist.
You're going to need to be more specific, there are a lot of claims there.
This
That's what I initially thought too, so who knows. Obviously there's nothing dangerous about that other than maybe a little vertigo. :P But the whole Hellraiser thing is maybe a little extreme.
Though I was aware of the actual suspension thing as well, as it was on some late night news show awhile back.
Really just strikes me as a weird things some people find fun hey more power to'em hope they don't fuck it up though it's still probably safer than mountain climbing.
--
You guys know they have eye tattoos and gold inlays for the white of you eye now, right?
Actually if you do it stupidly it's potentially very dangerous. Circulation is important to continued living, especially during moments of severely heightened blood-pressure?
You don't think that extreme body modification or receiving sexual release from physical trauma is potentially a sign of emotional instability or self-destructive tendencies? Cutting yourself or having your nuts stomped on is OK if it gets you off?
A quick internet search on eye sewing showed off some pretty horrific and dangerous forms of "shaping" that border on mutilation. Clipping your own ears with a pair of scissors and then stapling them to form an elfen point isn't a "kink," it's a bloody mess. And I didn't mean to suggest that such activities are only "bad" when performed for sexual gratification; there is no justification for lip disks or neck extensions, especially when such things are forced on young people as they are in some cultures. Sometimes they're done as tests of "strength" or "character," everybody's seen the episode of Ripley's where some guy pulls a truck with hooks through his back. Every case is a little bit different and should be treated as such.
But there is a great danger inherent in allowing particularly violent activities to become too openly accepted when the participants are not only putting themselves at risk, but potentially encouraging others to follow suit. So-called "support groups" for people with eating disorders who encourage young girls to starve themselves are a well-known example. There needs to be a healthy skepticism applied to masochistic behavior to ensure that vulnerable individuals aren't abused or dissuaded from seeking much needed help. If EM's friend is in fact emotionally "well" and his pain fetish isn't related to any underlying issues then I guess it's fine to go at it, but you need to at least ask the question to make sure he isn't just hurting himself for no good reason and that he knows where to stop. I don't think that's at all unreasonable.
Of course it's important to help people and make sure they don't damage themselves and remain in control and are safe etc etc. But I don't think it's a logical step to say "you like your nuts smashed, you must be mentally ill."
Well you shouldn't be doing any of this without adequate equipment and safety precautions. I meant there isn't anything inherent to harness-suspension that would indicate self-destructive tendencies that might need to be addressed. Suspension-by-hooks because you enjoy the pain, on the other hand, is an extreme enough activity that you should probably be a bit more cautious, for your emotional if not just your physical well-being.
I'm not backpeddling from anything. Deriving sexual gratification from having extraordinary violence performed on you is about as big a red-flag as you can get. Having your testicles crushed causes most men to pass out or throw up from the pain; it is not an inherently enjoyable activity. There are likely individuals out there who are simply wired differently and have different physical reactions to violent stimuli, but it's dangerous enough under the best of conditions that you need to ask the damn question, "are you OK?"
And saying that someone has a "mental illness" isn't a value judgment unless you make it one. I'm not ostracizing or degrading anyone, I'm saying that because there is a significant potential link between self-abuse and "pain fetish" that, for the safety of the person who engages in such activities, they should at least look into counseling to make sure there isn't something else driving their compulsion. There is nothing wrong with needing help. People who engage in BDSM take precaution against the very real physical dangers inherent to certain activities; there shouldn't be anything controversial in suggesting they take the same precautions with their emotional health.
I can agree with your perspective, the amount of sub text between the two people can be fascinating. Not something that is really my taste. However a lot of people seem to make more out of pain play, rope play, than there really is.
Sure you can take the extremes of knife play and say no way in hell would you ever be tied up and let someone go at you with sharp objects. However that person is (hopefully) a highly trained professional, and your looking at surface cuts. If it does not turn you on, don't worry about it.
The key point here is that while there is a lot of weird stuff people do to get off as long a everyone unvolved is a consenting adult and no one dies then who cares?
I have friends that do this, suspensions and double suspensions (one person hanging from another) etc. One of thier friends owns a tattoo and piercing place, and the back room is set up with a rig attached to the ceiling. One uses large surgical needle hooks on specific places on the body (so they dont rip out, which can happen if you aren't careful) The double suspend I saw was four hooks, two on the back and two on the legs, and then another set for lucky pierre on his chest and thighs.
Aside from the piercing part, which hurts (but not as much as you would suspect, once you get the way of it, the pain is secondary to the feeling of pressure) buddy claims the suspension as intense, but peaceful, with a feeling of weightlessness. Akin to skydiving, or antigrav. It wasn't a sexual thing, though I'm sure you could turn it into one (The Cell comes to mind), more of a limit testing thing. It looked fun actually, I've been tempted to give it a try.
It's interesting that pain is such a big deal to some people, when to others its just.. well its not. Its just another sensation like warmth or cold. So the activities seem very striking, but to the people involved, it's not as big a thing as its made out to be by uninitiated onlookers.
Before this goes any further, my point is that, "No. It's silly to derive that because involuntary, unwilling bodily harm can be a bad thing, it must be a mentally ill person who derives please from that experience."
Like, everyone who finds furries hot are mentally ill, of course. Rape fantasies, put 'em in strong therapy. And if you actualy garner satisfation from putting on special skintight clothes, strapping manufactured air onto your back, and diving into the middle of the ocean with dangerous creatures all around you?
MENTAL ILLNESS.
Don't worry about those haters, ELM. I get you.
Very true. In the community, the term widely used is sensation, as in 'hooking a car battery up to your nipple causes some intense sensations'. Pain is then often used to describe unexpected or unpleasent events.
I'm always reminded of a Simpsons clip, the one where Bart steals Hitler's car. He drives through a side show, where Impervo is busy driving nails into his face. The car rolls over Impervo's foot, and he's like 'ow ow ow ow'. Classic.
Don't forget how anyone who plays GTA4 is clearly a violent psychopath and needs to be locked away in the closest thing to Arkham that we can find. No sane person can enjoy playing pretend about things that they wouldn't want to happen for real.
grim and frostbitten kingdoms. goozex referral. steam.
In other words, you can do whatever the fuck you like, if you remain a healthy individual, have a job, a home, can feed yourself, and it's not hurting (hah) you, it's not enough just to have all the symptoms.
It has to be actively hurting you, the individual, in your daily traverses through the great quest that is life.
There's also a massive amount of debate on wether or not people should be labelled as a "disorder" or "mental illness" at all.
So people who label other's as "mentally ill" when the person in question considers themselves fine and dandy are talking out their ass. They're also straying close to the same type of thinking found in prejudice situations. Race and sex are not the only "preconditions" to be a prejudgmental dick.
That's all I wanted to say.
It doesn't make S&M awesome or evil to mention that there's ignorant discrimination towards other stuff.
For me, I suppose the problem is that (comparative) acceptance of BDSM has been very recent. It's all about pain, which seems something fundamental - so fundamental that utilitarians use avoiding suffering as the base of their philosophy. It's very hard for someone who has experience of real pain to understand that for others the signal sometimes means something different, with no adverse effects, emotional or social.
I just would like to see more BDSM people go through their whole live, cradle to grave, and be able to live the full range of human experiences (e.g raising kids) and be just fine. Then we can be more sure that there really is no problem, that is causes you no harm.
In fact, if you know more than me about this, you might know of some people who have. For example, William Burroughs was always a useful example against anti-drug people. Edumacate me please.
Note that this isn't code for 'I think they should all be killed, actually'.
Just a worry.
I know that it's pretty common but I don't believe it's as common as oral sex.
And please stop assuming that this is about a lack of knowledge. I don't think my misgivings are about that.
Have another look at the post I just made.
What you're asking is for, like, Bill Gates to write in his will "Tell them I liked my balls licked."