A drop in Russ' front armor is bad.. why would they do that? Are you telling me a sleek fast hovering Tau Hammerhead has armor just as good as a slow fucking rolling slab of armor with a cannon on it?
Or do they just want to make it easier for Marines to take them out, since they don't usually take heavy anti-armor.
Don't railguns not "glance"? They just penetrate. And a 3 to penetrate with a railgun? Shit, don't Hammerheads have BS4? Could you make it any easier for them?
Markerlights! :winky: BS5
Edit: even better, a squad of 3 broadsides. might mean 3 ruses down in one shooting phase with some luck.
Actually no, they don't auto penetrate anymore, but beign AP1 means they roll 1d6 + 1 on the damage table. So it's a wrecked result on a 4 if it's penetrating (if they're in a squadron immobilise counds as wreck, so a 3 I think).
And that's shooting into their fronts. I don't mind having to work to keep them from being exposed, but even a slight price drop doesn't justify them being that vulnerable.
1 - Take spare points from cost drop
2 - Buy meat shields
3 - Make sure they have their arms up so as to cover more area
4 - Get a 4+ Cover save
5 - Pray to the GOD EMPEROR OF MANKIND
to play devil's advocate, AV 14 is also used for things like Monoliths and Land Raiders. slapping it on a tank as common as the Russ kind of cheapens how significant it's supposed to be
to play devil's advocate, AV 14 is also used for things like Monoliths and Land Raiders. slapping it on a tank as common as the Russ kind of cheapens how significant it's supposed to be
I'd be happy with front armor 13 on a Russ if they made the rest of it 12. Rear armor 10 on a main battle tank is absurd and having bolt pistols able to blow them up makes it even more absurd.
to play devil's advocate, AV 14 is also used for things like Monoliths and Land Raiders. slapping it on a tank as common as the Russ kind of cheapens how significant it's supposed to be
I'd be happy with front armor 13 on a Russ if they made the rest of it 12. Rear armor 10 on a main battle tank is absurd and having bolt pistols able to blow them up makes it even more absurd.
yeah, I'd be happy with that balance. as it is, Orks can charge a Russ and punch holes through it because of always striking the rear armour in combat! while totally awesome, I'd like my tank to be tougher all-around, thanks
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
edited January 2009
New Rumor from a good source!
A secret informant has passed on the following rumours:
Conscript will supposedly be a Troops choice much like Daemon in the Chaos Marine Dex in that they do not take up a FOC slot. They will supposedly come with a command squad mad up of a Commissar and three teams of Heavy Bolters. The concept is that if the Conscripts break, the Heavy Bolter team guns them down each one killed gives +1 to their Ld up to a max of 10. They are supposedly also Fearless until the Commissar and HW team have been killed.
The Hellhound is supposedly bought in squadrons of 3 (this could mean up to 3), and they can combine there firepower but will sacrifice a turn of shooting like dire avengers do. They will subsequently suffer +1 to any damage results during their reload turn.
You can have a Storm Trooper Squad/Platoon as a Troops choice (not clear if this means both or one of), but this is reliant on an upgraded HQ choice. They can Infiltrate if not transported.
Plastic Storm troopers will supposedly be 10 models in a box from £12-15. No further word on box contents.
The same informant also confirmed Valkyries as transports for Stormtroopers
I will try to incorporate these and other rumours from the thread into the first post when I can.
That conscript thing has me literally crying with joy and awesomeness!
I guess. I don't want to seem up in arms about this, since I think the good far outweighs the bad with this update. I just know the Tau are going to ream my buttocks in tank battles now.
edit: Holy shit that conscript rumor is the very best thing.
to play devil's advocate, AV 14 is also used for things like Monoliths and Land Raiders. slapping it on a tank as common as the Russ kind of cheapens how significant it's supposed to be
I'd be happy with front armor 13 on a Russ if they made the rest of it 12. Rear armor 10 on a main battle tank is absurd and having bolt pistols able to blow them up makes it even more absurd.
I wouldn't mind if they lowered every front AV by 1 :winky:
Edit: Maybe they took that front AV and stuck it in the back. Would be cool I think.
okay that's the best way to handle Conscript squads ever. less so if the HBs are unable to fire at targets that are not terrified barely-armed untrained draftees, but still!
I don't have the rules in front of me, but would that make the Russ eligible under the combat patrol rules? Whatever the rules for small, short games were. I forget the exact total AV that was the max, but I remember the Russ was just over it. I would totally back the change if I could bring a Russ into a match against a handful of scouts.
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
I guess. I don't want to seem up in arms about this, since I think the good far outweighs the bad with this update. I just know the Tau are going to ream my buttocks in tank battles now.
edit: Holy shit that conscript rumor is the very best thing.
it is isn't it? However it kinda seems to contradict itself. If they were fearless because the Commissar is alive why would they need to be shot to increase their LD to 10?
Though the sheer modeling opportunity that offers is awesome. Commissariat Heavy Bolter Team?
Monoliths are set apart by that.. whatever rule they have. They can only get glanced or something? And Landraiders are set apart by the fact that they're 14 all over. Aren't Landraiders fucking transports anyway? Why is it so outlandish to think a main battle tank may have front armor equal to that of a transport?
Or is this some fluff thing I'm missing. In which case aren't Marines suppose to be quite rare and able to handle hundreds of any kind of enemy?
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IanatorGaze upon my works, ye mightyand facepalm.Registered Userregular
edited January 2009
Monoliths' "Living Armor". I think you can't roll more than a single D6 for penetration against it, which means Meltas aren't much good against them.
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from what I understand, Land Raiders are forged from some crazy supertough ceramite alloy that is ridiculously hard to produce, which is why they are so few in number. Monoliths are solid blocks of living metal powered by arcane and nebulous powers from beyond the stars. Battlewagons have probably the most down-to-earth construction, but when they're on the battlefield they're bolstered by the gestalt psychic field of hundreds if not thousands of Orks that all believe that the front of a good battlewagon ought to be impenetrable.
for the record, a predator is also a main battle tank. it has AV 13.
I don't have the rules in front of me, but would that make the Russ eligible under the combat patrol rules? Whatever the rules for small, short games were. I forget the exact total AV that was the max, but I remember the Russ was just over it. I would totally back the change if I could bring a Russ into a match against a handful of scouts.
The limit is 33AV. 13+12+10 = 35
It would have to be something like a Devilfish. 12/11/10
I don't have the rules in front of me, but would that make the Russ eligible under the combat patrol rules? Whatever the rules for small, short games were. I forget the exact total AV that was the max, but I remember the Russ was just over it. I would totally back the change if I could bring a Russ into a match against a handful of scouts.
The limit is 33AV. 13+12+10 = 35
It would have to be something like a Devilfish. 12/11/10
Oh, damn. I thought it was a little closer to the limit than that. Ok, I'm back to protesting!
from what I understand, Land Raiders are forged from some crazy supertough ceramite alloy that is ridiculously hard to produce, which is why they are so few in number. Monoliths are solid blocks of living metal powered by arcane and nebulous powers from beyond the stars. Battlewagons have probably the most down-to-earth construction, but when they're on the battlefield they're bolstered by the gestalt psychic field of hundreds if not thousands of Orks that all believe that the front of a good battlewagon ought to be impenetrable.
for the record, a predator is also a main battle tank. it has AV 13.
I think the difference is that those have other special rules to represent their awesomeness, and they're 14 all around. I don't have a problem with one of the best tanks normally fielded being able to have top of the line front armor. The sides and rear are crap.
That conscript rumour is seriously the best thing. Dropping a Russ' AV to 13 sucks, but it also means armoured companies =/= surprise secks. I'm still hoping for coaxial heavy stubbers on their main weapons.
Does this mean that we can expect plastic stormtroopers in the first month's releases?
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
edited January 2009
If it suddenly becomes easier to take multiple russes, the front armor drop is perfectly reasonable.
Also, Timspork, what edition of the rules are you playing, because bolt pistols cannot blow up Russes.
I'm almost done assembling my warboss' new retinue, from the nobz box (which is aces by the way).
One of my pirate crew has two power claws, and i just sculpted a big old beard onto him. Is this awesome y/n
I'm also making some flash gitz out of another box of nobz, and had a go at sculpting one of them a pirate hat. It turned out a little small, and with the feather in it he looks a little more like ork robin hood. : /
but yes, being able to take so many Russes, whether it be in the 0-1 squadron or attached to platoons, balances out any armour loss
I'm hoping that Russes taken in a "squadron" will operate more like Biovores than conventional vehicle squadrons, because counting immobilised results as wrecked would just suck too much to contemplate
- Infantry squads at 50 points per squad. This is a 10 men squad equipped with sergeant, heavy bolter, flamer and 7 guardsmen. This validates the 4 point guardsman, or 5 points per guardsman with free Heavy and special weapon similar to the new Space marine dex.
- Infantry squads can then be upgraded as per current Codex in terms of weaponry, but can also have support squads added to them and have squad upgrades in a similar vein to Doctrines but without the current complicated restrictions.
More rumors I got from Librarium Online.
- The advisors special rule has been dropped.
- The Commissar Lord allows you to take Stormtroopers as a troops choice. This does conflict with other rumours which say that Stormtroopers will be troops anyway.
- The valk is a stormtrooper only transport but allows them to Deep Strike more effectively in a similar way to the drop pod.
- Sentinels can now be bought from both Fast Attack and Heavy Support slots. Depending on which slot they are bought from dictates their weaponry and rules. Fast Attack Sentinels retain scout and remain open topped, Heavy Support can have Plasma cannons etc and enclosed cockpits but lose scout.
- The new HQ boxed set apparently has lots of lovely new bits including an underarm swagger stick Drill Instructor style.
-An alternative to the platoon drill, or another variant, where the owning player of the guard army can declare a unit to go onto "overwatch" rules. The unit can get a round of free shooting off in the enemies shooting phase at the cost of next turns shooting and assualting.
I guess. I don't want to seem up in arms about this, since I think the good far outweighs the bad with this update. I just know the Tau are going to ream my buttocks in tank battles now.
edit: Holy shit that conscript rumor is the very best thing.
it is isn't it? However it kinda seems to contradict itself. If they were fearless because the Commissar is alive why would they need to be shot to increase their LD to 10?
Though the sheer modeling opportunity that offers is awesome. Commissariat Heavy Bolter Team?
The heavy bolters are fearless, it sounds like, not the conscripts...
I have just realised Tau will be the last army to be updated for fifth
pfft. unless I'm crazy, tau have had two new codices in the time that the Guard and Space Wolves and Dark Eldar have been waiting!
Serves them right for not beign as awesome as the Tau.
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
edited January 2009
I've also heard a rumor that IG vehicles will have a special rule.
"Hull Mounted" The Imperial Guard mount weapons to their vehicles with the express purpose of defending them from enemy infantry. This make all Str 5 weapon that are hull or sponson mounted count as defensive weapons.
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Or do they just want to make it easier for Marines to take them out, since they don't usually take heavy anti-armor.
/whine
Good: AV13? that's a 3 to glance and 4 to penetrate with railguns :winky:
Bad: Squadrons of them with extra armor for 'free', the possibility for at least 9 of them. 9 Battlecannons... shit, 9 demolishers!
Edit: even better, a squad of 3 broadsides. might mean 3 ruses down in one shooting phase with some luck.
Actually no, they don't auto penetrate anymore, but beign AP1 means they roll 1d6 + 1 on the damage table. So it's a wrecked result on a 4 if it's penetrating (if they're in a squadron immobilise counds as wreck, so a 3 I think).
2 - Buy meat shields
3 - Make sure they have their arms up so as to cover more area
4 - Get a 4+ Cover save
5 - Pray to the GOD EMPEROR OF MANKIND
I'd be happy with front armor 13 on a Russ if they made the rest of it 12. Rear armor 10 on a main battle tank is absurd and having bolt pistols able to blow them up makes it even more absurd.
yeah, I'd be happy with that balance. as it is, Orks can charge a Russ and punch holes through it because of always striking the rear armour in combat! while totally awesome, I'd like my tank to be tougher all-around, thanks
That conscript thing has me literally crying with joy and awesomeness!
edit: Holy shit that conscript rumor is the very best thing.
I wouldn't mind if they lowered every front AV by 1 :winky:
Edit: Maybe they took that front AV and stuck it in the back. Would be cool I think.
it is isn't it? However it kinda seems to contradict itself. If they were fearless because the Commissar is alive why would they need to be shot to increase their LD to 10?
Though the sheer modeling opportunity that offers is awesome. Commissariat Heavy Bolter Team?
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Backlog Challenge List
Or is this some fluff thing I'm missing. In which case aren't Marines suppose to be quite rare and able to handle hundreds of any kind of enemy?
Twitch | Blizzard: Ianator#1479 | 3DS: Ianator - 1779 2336 5317 | FFXIV: Iana Ateliere (NA Sarg)
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for the record, a predator is also a main battle tank. it has AV 13.
The limit is 33AV. 13+12+10 = 35
It would have to be something like a Devilfish. 12/11/10
Oh, damn. I thought it was a little closer to the limit than that. Ok, I'm back to protesting!
I think the difference is that those have other special rules to represent their awesomeness, and they're 14 all around. I don't have a problem with one of the best tanks normally fielded being able to have top of the line front armor. The sides and rear are crap.
Does this mean that we can expect plastic stormtroopers in the first month's releases?
Also, Timspork, what edition of the rules are you playing, because bolt pistols cannot blow up Russes.
One of my pirate crew has two power claws, and i just sculpted a big old beard onto him. Is this awesome y/n
I'm also making some flash gitz out of another box of nobz, and had a go at sculpting one of them a pirate hat. It turned out a little small, and with the feather in it he looks a little more like ork robin hood. : /
I'm hoping that Russes taken in a "squadron" will operate more like Biovores than conventional vehicle squadrons, because counting immobilised results as wrecked would just suck too much to contemplate
Logic says it will be IG, Dark eldar/space wolves/necrons, then Tau.
The inquisition is never going to be updated because that's part of their charm, so they don't count.
- Infantry squads can then be upgraded as per current Codex in terms of weaponry, but can also have support squads added to them and have squad upgrades in a similar vein to Doctrines but without the current complicated restrictions.
More rumors I got from Librarium Online.
- The advisors special rule has been dropped.
- The Commissar Lord allows you to take Stormtroopers as a troops choice. This does conflict with other rumours which say that Stormtroopers will be troops anyway.
- The valk is a stormtrooper only transport but allows them to Deep Strike more effectively in a similar way to the drop pod.
- Sentinels can now be bought from both Fast Attack and Heavy Support slots. Depending on which slot they are bought from dictates their weaponry and rules. Fast Attack Sentinels retain scout and remain open topped, Heavy Support can have Plasma cannons etc and enclosed cockpits but lose scout.
- The new HQ boxed set apparently has lots of lovely new bits including an underarm swagger stick Drill Instructor style.
-An alternative to the platoon drill, or another variant, where the owning player of the guard army can declare a unit to go onto "overwatch" rules. The unit can get a round of free shooting off in the enemies shooting phase at the cost of next turns shooting and assualting.
The heavy bolters are fearless, it sounds like, not the conscripts...
pfft. unless I'm crazy, tau have had two new codices in the time that the Guard and Space Wolves and Dark Eldar have been waiting!
shit yes.
Serves them right for not beign as awesome as the Tau.
"Hull Mounted" The Imperial Guard mount weapons to their vehicles with the express purpose of defending them from enemy infantry. This make all Str 5 weapon that are hull or sponson mounted count as defensive weapons.
oh, how I loathe waiting.
If even half of these things are true I'll be very happy.
all three of those armies are, even on their worst days, still more awesome than the Tau.
yeah
even the space-dark-elves