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Old enough to die for your country, old enough to drink?
echolocation
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So recently there's been some serious talk around here about the fact that you're able to join the army and go and fight at the age of 18, and yet the drinking age is still 21. People have been talking about some upcoming changes that should be made in the law, that either:
A) The drinking age for all should be reduced to 18.
The drinking age for all people in the military should be reduced to 18.
Personally I'm against both. With the fact that there's already a rather large amount of deaths due to drunk driving and abuse of alcohol, I don't think the age should be reduced to 18, because I'm not saying that ALL 18 year olds are irresponsible, but there are some. To allow them to drink would most likely induce binge drinking, drunk driving, and all that wonderful stuff, causing alcohol poisioning, and probably more deaths off innocent people on the road.
As well with the second option, I'm also against that. People in the military that are 18 don't need to be drinking either, I mean sure, they probably do already, But the risk that maybe they'll get drunk, act irresponsibly, or get themself killed in battle is just too great. Considering alcohol isn't that important within one's life, I reason that they can wait the few extra years when they have gotten a wee bit mroe responsible.
Anyways, I just wanted to know what you guys think about reducing the alcohol age limit.
A) The drinking age for all should be reduced to 18.
The drinking age for all people in the military should be reduced to 18.Personally I'm against both. With the fact that there's already a rather large amount of deaths due to drunk driving and abuse of alcohol, I don't think the age should be reduced to 18, because I'm not saying that ALL 18 year olds are irresponsible, but there are some. To allow them to drink would most likely induce binge drinking, drunk driving, and all that wonderful stuff, causing alcohol poisioning, and probably more deaths off innocent people on the road.
As well with the second option, I'm also against that. People in the military that are 18 don't need to be drinking either, I mean sure, they probably do already, But the risk that maybe they'll get drunk, act irresponsibly, or get themself killed in battle is just too great. Considering alcohol isn't that important within one's life, I reason that they can wait the few extra years when they have gotten a wee bit mroe responsible.
Anyways, I just wanted to know what you guys think about reducing the alcohol age limit.
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I'm given to understand that it's extremely unusual for anyone to drink while underage in a family context (like wine with dinner, champagne at new year kind of thing).
EDIT: To add something of substance, I don't think it would be a bad thing for the US as a whole to be less scared of alcohol. I've been drinking in moderation since about 14 and it hasn't done me any harm.
Maybe, just maybe, drinking wouldnt be this huge passage of right were a bunch of moron kids go out and binge drink and die. Then we wouldnt have to hear about how these dumbasses killed themselves on the news and how we should all feel sorry for a moron who drank himself to death.
Not in any considerable amount, but there are sips of wine, usually at religious events (apparently, Christian consumption is also legal under cannibalism laws).
We're terribly fucked up in our attitudes about alcohol. If you're not 21 you shouldn't drink, *wink, wink, nudge nudge* but if you're over 21 you should be drinking as a solution to all your problems.
The "Die for your country" argument is irrelevant. The real argument is that by pushing the drinking age to 18 we could actually have a shot in hell at overseeing college drinking and get it out of the fucking shadows. Right now most college students have to hide that they're drinking which helps fuel the binge drinking shtick.
So basically, what you're saying is that if kids are allowed to drink at any age, by the time they reach driving age it won't be "WOOOOOOO just drank 40 beers cause I'm cool like that! Now let's Go Drive!"?
I find this plausible.
To say nothing of the fact that due to our retarded drinking laws there's a taboo around it leading to massive binge drinking.
That can't be healthy.
I don't.
A drunk is a drunk.
It's like abortions. Keeping it illegal just makes it more dangerous. I don't necessarily agree with getting rid of drinking age completely, but if we bumped it down to 18 you let those frat boy binge drinkers bring their behavior out in the open.
Despite our glorification of drinking the one thing that MADD have done is I've never met somebody my age who thinks drunk driving is cool, alright, whatever.
Would never pass. Some people have work and shit to do by the time they are 16, and they need to get to those places. We are not Europe where people just walk everywhere because they are so tiny anyway and our mass transit system is pretty shoddy in some parts of this country.
So in short, you proposed a terrible idea, completely out of touch with the special needs of American lives.
Why would this be likely?
Personally, I think that removing the taboo associated with underaged drinking would put us in a better position to combat things like binge drinking and drunk driving. If you can't get in trouble for being drunk, then you can't get in trouble for calling your parents for a ride or leaving your car at a friend's house and taking a cab home instead. Furthermore, if parents know you're drinking, then they're closer to knowing how much you're drinking, and if it's too much.
I doubt anyone, regardless of age, is allowed to drink before battle.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Technically that isn't necessarily true. You can legally drink while under 21 so long as it is under parental supervision. So if your parents don't mind letting you have a glass of wine or a beer every now and again you might not become an idiot. The only thing is most people don't know this, and regardless it doesn't ensure kids don't go out binge drinking when the context changes as having that glass of wine has become illicit.
Also, first communion &c. is already legal as was said. So the simple solution is for everyone to become Catholic.
Yet a raving bigoted moron is still a valid participant for debate.
I wouldn't call it extremely unusual. I had champagne at the new year before I was 21, and it's not a big deal if one of the 18 to 20 year old cousins has a beer or two at a family party.
Whenever "first alcoholic drink" comes up in conversation, it's usually something like a screwdriver the person's uncle made for him or her, at 16 or so.
That said, it is somewhat unusual, and I don't know many people underage who regularly have a glass of wine with dinner or anything.
Actually I'm pretty sure that in my state (Connecticut) adults who allow underage drinking in their house are arrestable. I forget what the exact charge is.
I didn't realize most 16 year old were emancipated in the rest of the country. The more you know.
You've never heard of 16 year olds having jobs or doing work outside the home, or going to school?
Well, if they aren't the other kids' parents it wouldn't really qualify as parental supervision.
What I'm saying is you're the world's biggest phony.
Yes. I was one of them. What does that have to do with what you were talking about?
Just checked and it turns out it can be your kids too.
That's from the website of a town near me.
Just because your old enough to make your own decisions it doesn't mean you're mature enough to act properly when drunk. Although, 21+ year olds can tend to be just as bad, it just makes it more definite.
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/222216/march-19-2009/john-mccardell
This guy is a former university president, and is spearheading the movement among college administrators to lower the drinking age to 18. He makes good arguments I think, and has a lot of colleagues on board (apologies to non-US residents if you can't see the video, not sure if that's still goign on)
Yeah, my problem is with the taboo more than anything else, I wasn't certain about the legalities of it. The point I'm making is that from my (admittedly limited) interactions with Americans I get the impression that most people aren't being introduced to alcohol via watered wine with dinner, or a couple of beers while watching the football, or similar.
Instead, it seems that the world of fake IDs and hiding it from the parents is far more common. Not to say that doesn't happen here, either, but it's rare that it'll be someone's first experience with booze or it's effects.
Basically "drinking age" is kind of a red herring when discussing how society should deal with alcohol, because it's a relatively minor consideration.
Regarding communion, my understanding is that it's a sip? Nobody is going to develop an understanding of responsible alcohol use from that alone.
That's interesting.
First of all, a lot of countries have drinking ages set at 18 already, and their country hasn't come down around their ears.
Second of all, binge drinking is a result IMO of not getting to drink very often, so you over indulge when you get the opportunity. If you have the ability to walk into a store and buy alcohol at any point, that need to overindulge drops greatly.
Also, if you have to walk to a bar, pay a minimum of around $5 for a drink, and then walk home, you're less likely to get quite as incredibly shitfaced.
I mean, technically you could just binge in your room, but what kind of loser has a party in the dorms instead of going out?
Which is generally noticeable amongst 21 year olds in comparison to 18 year olds. By the time all my friends could legally drink they were pretty much indifferent about it by a week later.
True. You'd be surprised at the determination of a lot of college students, however.
Thinking back on it, I don't think it was any worse than when I was stationed in San Diego. I think once the new kids had the initial "WOO-HOO! I CAN DRINK?!?!?" phase, (usually about a week to a month) they mellowed out and were ok with the idea. A DUI is still a DUI regardless of age, at least now there's no underage/contributing charge attached as well.
I'm not going to give anecdotal evidence because it was years ago and my memory's shitty, but I want to say that I THINK that there were less DUIs than my other duty station (San Diego).
It probably also helped that the local police had a very good working relationship with the SP (Shore Patrol, Navy Military Police) and for E-4s and below (think Specialist/Corporal for you ground types) had to be back on base/ship by midnight weekdays and 2am on weekends.
And Guam is fucking TINY.
At some point I noticed that you can pick out the underage kids by seeing who's drunkest.