I've read this thread and the Sepinwall piece but I don't really think there is a "Pierce problem" so much as a Pierce story that we are in the middle of.
The problem is the arc seems to have ended with this last episode, and that ending just won't cut it.
I know the Russos have said this is Pierce's redemption but I don't know if that means it is the end of the arc or just the bottom of his downward slide. The seeds for what's been going on with Pierce have been laid since the beginning of season 2 and I guess I feel like it seems more natural that they will wrap it up at the end of the season.
I've read this thread and the Sepinwall piece but I don't really think there is a "Pierce problem" so much as a Pierce story that we are in the middle of.
The problem is the arc seems to have ended with this last episode, and that ending just won't cut it.
I know the Russos have said this is Pierce's redemption but I don't know if that means it is the end of the arc or just the bottom of his downward slide. The seeds for what's been going on with Pierce have been laid since the beginning of season 2 and I guess I feel like it seems more natural that they will wrap it up at the end of the season.
I would of enjoyed Troys freak out scene better in the cafeteria if he had thrown a chair full force. It was a pretty wimpy flailing. I guess that's partially the point too, though.
It's about the expectations the show sets up. Something like this, which clearly wants you to be invested in continuity and character development and on certain levels requires you to pay attention to get the jokes, yeah we expect it.
Something more traditional that is just an outlet to sell jokes (Archer for example) I don't really care.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
It's about the expectations the show sets up. Something like this, which clearly wants you to be invested in continuity and character development and on certain levels requires you to pay attention to get the jokes, yeah we expect it.
Something more traditional that is just an outlet to sell jokes (Archer for example) I don't really care.
I honestly don't think the characters have really fundamentally evolved, it's only the circumstances they're in that have changed. And even when the circumstances change, the show works to pull it back to the status quo.
We've learned a lot about the characters over the course of the show, but all of that really only serves to reinforce their character's profile, not change our perception of them.
But it works beautifully because it means the show doesn't have to resort to crazy plot machinations to keep it going, it just has to be well-written and funny (as evidenced by the bottle episodes).
It's not like Mad Men or something with Don Draper going from an ubermensch to divorced schmo
I wonder about Pierce's mom. She obviously understands why Pierce is the way he is better than anyone and pretended to be in a cult just to make him happy, so I wonder if she felt guilty about his child hood. It's strange though, knowing your son is so desperate for friends that his only avenue is a cult.
I would criticize his father, but then again, he did discover the cleansing power of moist cotton.
As for Pierce's revenge, he targeted Jeff to get Jeff to admit the fact that he had father issues. He targeted Britta to get Britta to admit that she wasn't as selfless as she thought (or else she would have noticed his decline). He targeted Shirley for making everything about her. He probably targeted Troy because Troy wasn't capable of appreciating the lifestyle that Pierce was willing to offer.
Abed and Annie were safe, because they were never really jerks to Pierce.
As for Pierce's revenge, he targeted Jeff to get Jeff to admit the fact that he had father issues.
Ok this one sentence turned me to "Pierce is pure evil".
Sure Jeff's dad left him - Pierce's dad replaced him in a commercial and then years and years later tried to kill a computerized Col. Sanders because of it. Pierce wasn't trying to get Jeff to confront fatherhood issues, to Pierce father issues are the absolute most painful type of hurt - this is what he was trying to bring down on Jeff. This is worse then taking the sword of Ducane.
Pierce wasn't trying to get Jeff to confront fatherhood issues, to Pierce father issues are the absolute most painful type of hurt - this is what he was trying to bring down on Jeff.
Naw, I think he just resented how cool and collected Jeff always is, and wanted to disrupt that. He just underestimated how much Jeff was repressing.
But I do wonder why Pierce rushed to the phone after Jeff says not to pull any Parent Trap bullshit, and why he said his plan was "improvised." I wonder if Pierce had actually found Jeff's dad, but then decided to pose as Jeff's dad because it would hurt more.
But I do wonder why Pierce rushed to the phone after Jeff says not to pull any Parent Trap bullshit, and why he said his plan was "improvised." I wonder if Pierce had actually found Jeff's dad, but then decided to pose as Jeff's dad because it would hurt more.
I thought I had three possible situations playing out, but the more I tried to type it more it devolved into a Professor Professorson spiral of confusion.
I am going with - He HAD found the father and the father was on the way however seeing Jeff's reactions he canceled that . Him posing as the dad was a way to end it as cleanly as possible without making it seem that he had made up the whole thing just to get at jeff.
But then again the CD didn't have anything bad on it.
I'm a little worried, that all that hub-bub about "pierce is teh evil!!!11!!!" and how nobody understands why he is still part of the group, will lead to the writers trying to address this and make things worse. I really cannot imagine anything good coming out of trying to appease one's fanbase.
Pierce definitely never found the dad, the whole point was to just play mind games with the group, the same way Shirley's CD was just chatter. He was using the phone to call for a town car that he could rent so he could at least try to still pull it off.
If he had found the Dad, why would he call it off when Jeff already says he's OK with it, and that if it isn't his Dad there would be a beating?
I'm a little worried, that all that hub-bub about "pierce is teh evil!!!11!!!" and how nobody understands why he is still part of the group, will lead to the writers trying to address this and make things worse. I really cannot imagine anything good coming out of trying to appease one's fanbase.
Agreed. pierce is hilarious as the evil one. And when you try to combine hilarity with pierce redeeming himself I think this episode is the best and furthest you can go.
Alegis on
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
The interpretation that Pierce found Jeff's dad makes my brain bleed. No offense.
This is a paraphrase of that scene:
Jeff: "Okay, I've made peace with the situation and I'm ready to meet my father."
Pierce: "Good, good."
Jeff: "But if my father isn't coming, I will kick your ass from here to kingdom come." Jeff Leaves.
Pierce: Mad, frightful scramble for the phone.
In what way does that make sense if Jeff's real father was coming? Jeff explicitly told Pierce he would inflict a great deal of harm on him if his father WASN'T showing up at this point. Canceling Jeff's real father at that point doesn't make sense. Pierce may be a dumbass, but he's smarter than that.
I'm a little worried, that all that hub-bub about "pierce is teh evil!!!11!!!" and how nobody understands why he is still part of the group, will lead to the writers trying to address this and make things worse. I really cannot imagine anything good coming out of trying to appease one's fanbase.
Chuck vs. the Honeymooners disagrees.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
I'm a little worried, that all that hub-bub about "pierce is teh evil!!!11!!!" and how nobody understands why he is still part of the group, will lead to the writers trying to address this and make things worse. I really cannot imagine anything good coming out of trying to appease one's fanbase.
He is midiclorian count is low. There, you all happy now?
He is midiclorian count is low. There, you all happy now?
My point exactly. I prefer them not making a big deal out of Pierce's outlandish behaviour. Or rather it seems to me that some fans are making a bigger deal out of Pierce's destructive tendencies than is necessary. I don't see anybody getting worked up about why Abed is so peculiar, or why Shirley is emotionally manipulative or why Jeff is such a narcisisst.
Personally I'm far more bothered* by Shirley's hypocritical attitude and why people keep up with it, than I am about Pierce.
(*- Which is not saying much, because I'm not particularly bothered about anybody's behaviour in the main cast. The way the claymation episode fallout was handled basically set the tone of just how much weight the writers put into the negtive aspects of the main characters, and thus how much weight the audience should.)
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited February 2011
I just realized if Shirley is pregnant as of a few weeks ago, and this show kind of goes in real time, she will have her kid by the time of the first episode of the third season (which is going to happen).
TexiKen on
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JuliusCaptain of Serenityon my shipRegistered Userregular
I just realized if Shirley is pregnant as of a few weeks ago, and this show kind of goes in real time, she will have her kid by the time of the first episode of the third season (which is going to happen).
I'm not worried about Pierce's arc at all because I get the feeling that the writers think about these things a lot more than I do and know better what to do than I ever would. I'm just going to sit and watch every week (okay, two to three times a week if I'm honest).
Cervetus on
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
I just realized if Shirley is pregnant as of a few weeks ago, and this show kind of goes in real time, she will have her kid by the time of the first episode of the third season (which is going to happen).
You just wrinkled my brain.
Abed will force the kid to be born in an elevator that is stuck between floors because he sabotaged it.
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"streets ahead" is so fetch
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
*slow clap*
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I know the Russos have said this is Pierce's redemption but I don't know if that means it is the end of the arc or just the bottom of his downward slide. The seeds for what's been going on with Pierce have been laid since the beginning of season 2 and I guess I feel like it seems more natural that they will wrap it up at the end of the season.
With Jeff sleeping with Pierce.
If that's what you think, you probably don't want to come to my house for breakfast.
Something more traditional that is just an outlet to sell jokes (Archer for example) I don't really care.
I honestly don't think the characters have really fundamentally evolved, it's only the circumstances they're in that have changed. And even when the circumstances change, the show works to pull it back to the status quo.
We've learned a lot about the characters over the course of the show, but all of that really only serves to reinforce their character's profile, not change our perception of them.
But it works beautifully because it means the show doesn't have to resort to crazy plot machinations to keep it going, it just has to be well-written and funny (as evidenced by the bottle episodes).
It's not like Mad Men or something with Don Draper going from an ubermensch to divorced schmo
So many great things about that scene
shape change ffffffffffffffffffffattttttttttttttttttt
I would criticize his father, but then again, he did discover the cleansing power of moist cotton.
As for Pierce's revenge, he targeted Jeff to get Jeff to admit the fact that he had father issues. He targeted Britta to get Britta to admit that she wasn't as selfless as she thought (or else she would have noticed his decline). He targeted Shirley for making everything about her. He probably targeted Troy because Troy wasn't capable of appreciating the lifestyle that Pierce was willing to offer.
Abed and Annie were safe, because they were never really jerks to Pierce.
Ok this one sentence turned me to "Pierce is pure evil".
Sure Jeff's dad left him - Pierce's dad replaced him in a commercial and then years and years later tried to kill a computerized Col. Sanders because of it. Pierce wasn't trying to get Jeff to confront fatherhood issues, to Pierce father issues are the absolute most painful type of hurt - this is what he was trying to bring down on Jeff. This is worse then taking the sword of Ducane.
Why am I pyschoanalyzing a tv sitcom?
Naw, I think he just resented how cool and collected Jeff always is, and wanted to disrupt that. He just underestimated how much Jeff was repressing.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
I thought I had three possible situations playing out, but the more I tried to type it more it devolved into a Professor Professorson spiral of confusion.
I am going with - He HAD found the father and the father was on the way however seeing Jeff's reactions he canceled that . Him posing as the dad was a way to end it as cleanly as possible without making it seem that he had made up the whole thing just to get at jeff.
But then again the CD didn't have anything bad on it.
Ok my head hurts again.
Like, sure Jeff roughed Pierce up, but he most likely would have killed William. And there's nothing hilarious or madcap about that.
If he had found the Dad, why would he call it off when Jeff already says he's OK with it, and that if it isn't his Dad there would be a beating?
Agreed. pierce is hilarious as the evil one. And when you try to combine hilarity with pierce redeeming himself I think this episode is the best and furthest you can go.
This is a paraphrase of that scene:
Jeff: "Okay, I've made peace with the situation and I'm ready to meet my father."
Pierce: "Good, good."
Jeff: "But if my father isn't coming, I will kick your ass from here to kingdom come." Jeff Leaves.
Pierce: Mad, frightful scramble for the phone.
In what way does that make sense if Jeff's real father was coming? Jeff explicitly told Pierce he would inflict a great deal of harm on him if his father WASN'T showing up at this point. Canceling Jeff's real father at that point doesn't make sense. Pierce may be a dumbass, but he's smarter than that.
Chuck vs. the Honeymooners disagrees.
And not, say, a restaurant?
Spent the money needed for a restaurant set on actor LeVar Burton?
How much did they pay for him?
Did they buy him at auction?
FUCKING
BELIEVE
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
He is midiclorian count is low. There, you all happy now?
My point exactly. I prefer them not making a big deal out of Pierce's outlandish behaviour. Or rather it seems to me that some fans are making a bigger deal out of Pierce's destructive tendencies than is necessary. I don't see anybody getting worked up about why Abed is so peculiar, or why Shirley is emotionally manipulative or why Jeff is such a narcisisst.
Personally I'm far more bothered* by Shirley's hypocritical attitude and why people keep up with it, than I am about Pierce.
(*- Which is not saying much, because I'm not particularly bothered about anybody's behaviour in the main cast. The way the claymation episode fallout was handled basically set the tone of just how much weight the writers put into the negtive aspects of the main characters, and thus how much weight the audience should.)
You just wrinkled my brain.
Abed will force the kid to be born in an elevator that is stuck between floors because he sabotaged it.