As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
Options
Making Your Own Fun
Gosling
Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, ProbablyWatertown, WIRegistered User regular
Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, ProbablyWatertown, WIRegistered User regular
In my mind, the greatest compliment to a game's replayability is the ability to make your own fun- where you can disregard your mission completely and do the craziest shit the game mechanics will allow. Never mind the Evil Corporation, there's townsfolk to psychically throw into the river! TO THE DOCKS!
I wish to explore three specific topics in this thread:
1. First, I wish to break this kind of thing down to its core elements. What kind of specific features need to be in a game before a player is normally able to make their own fun? Are there any that are absolutely required? How many do you need?
2. What games pull this off best? (For reference, I'll do a sort of shopping list here in the OP, in case there's someone out there looking for one of these kind of games.)
3. Random 'craziest things you've done in a game' stories, because I think it's been long enough since we've had one of those.
I was kicked onto this topic today because of the first game I'll place in that shopping list, Crackdown for the 360. X-Play reviewed it last night and, in giving the game a 5... out of 5, pointed out how you could make your own fun. Specifically, they launched a car into the air with a shot from a bazooka or rocket launcher or whatever (we'll call it a bazooka), then shot it again and again pushing it ever higher. Then they took the bazooka to a freeway and shot at random cars, playing Flying Steel Fireball Gymnastics.
MAKE-YOUR-OWN-FUN SHOPPING LIST:
Crackdown
Deus Ex
Elebits
Grand Theft Auto III
Half-Life 2
Halo (and Halo 2)
LEGO Star Wars
Metal Gear Solid 3
Metroid series
Spiderman 2
I wish to explore three specific topics in this thread:
1. First, I wish to break this kind of thing down to its core elements. What kind of specific features need to be in a game before a player is normally able to make their own fun? Are there any that are absolutely required? How many do you need?
2. What games pull this off best? (For reference, I'll do a sort of shopping list here in the OP, in case there's someone out there looking for one of these kind of games.)
3. Random 'craziest things you've done in a game' stories, because I think it's been long enough since we've had one of those.
I was kicked onto this topic today because of the first game I'll place in that shopping list, Crackdown for the 360. X-Play reviewed it last night and, in giving the game a 5... out of 5, pointed out how you could make your own fun. Specifically, they launched a car into the air with a shot from a bazooka or rocket launcher or whatever (we'll call it a bazooka), then shot it again and again pushing it ever higher. Then they took the bazooka to a freeway and shot at random cars, playing Flying Steel Fireball Gymnastics.
MAKE-YOUR-OWN-FUN SHOPPING LIST:
Crackdown
Deus Ex
Elebits
Grand Theft Auto III
Half-Life 2
Halo (and Halo 2)
LEGO Star Wars
Metal Gear Solid 3
Metroid series
Spiderman 2
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
Gosling on
0
Posts
Metroid games: Although I don't ignore the story, it's fun to see what I can get away with not collecting.
GTA III: there will always be a special place for standing on top of the police station killing cops and watching the police cars pile up.
LEGO Star Wars: my wife and I would just run around the hub area and kill one another. Sometimes it was more fun than replaying the levels to get all the studs or whatnot.
For example, Halo. I never got into it as a game that much but it was what everyone played in the dorms so I took part in some of it too. We spent so long doing the goofiest stuff but it was a lot of fun. Like grenading warthogs up into the stratosphere, or trying to set up tricks like going over a hill with a 'hog with grenades under it and hitting it with a rocket at the same time. Or making warthogs into "doors" to the bases on blood gulch (touch to attempt to flip, which opens the door). Or spending hours figuring out how to get up to sniper's peak on a ghost...etc. etc.
Basically any games with vehicles, explosions and physics are good for this.
Heh, every early beat-em-up ever. Sure you couldn't pass level 3 in Battletoads, but who cares when half the time you didn't expect to make it that far without killing each other!
There's very few genres in which the very best games don't encourage multiple playthroughs, with goofy, arbitrary restrictions on what you allow yourself to do. Trying to beat FF6 with just Setzer, Celes and Sabin, for example. Trying to pass any Metal Slug game on a single credit, or playing Resident Evil 4 with only a pistol, or what have you.
If the only enjoyment you get from a game is having finished it--that is, if the actual experience from point A to point B to point C through the game isn't fun the entire time you're playing it--then it's unlikely you'll want to go back and mess around. And there's a few genres that really don't lend themself well to this kind of thing, like point-and-click adventures where each player's path through the game is exactly the same.
Aside from that, all I need to "make my own fun" is a fun game. I think I've beaten RE4 four different times now, and I'm sure I'll go back and do it again someday.
Just get into a corner, get a buddy to jump on top of you and ABX ABX ABX ABX ABX ABX ABX ABX ABX ABX. If you don't whack your buddy to death you'll find yourself in some crazy places.
Steam | Live
Devil May Cry 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CREs25IcHAU
Resident Evil 4: Beating a professional no-merchant Run and getting as far as I can with a knife (up to mendez only using 3 bullets to drop the crates). Dropping El-Gigante was awesome, plus fending off entre leigons of villagers in the cabin was hilarious. Imagine Leon standing in a corner, surrounded by 10 villagers whilst shouting 'GET BACK YOU FUCKERS! GET BACK!!!' as he madly swings his knife. Good times.
Guitar Hero: Strapping two guitars to myself and playing Iron Man in multiplayer mode, plus there is always the 'behind the head' method of playing.
Metal Gear Solid 3: Using the local wildlife as weapons, eg, attacking guards be throwing leigons of poisionous snakes and insects at them, this includes throwing a cobra at Revolver Oscelot (with hilarious results). The Pain boss fight went along the lines of
The Pain: 'Muhahaha! I am the pain! Master of Hornets!'
Me: 'No! You are bee man! Master of the bees! And I am Snake! Master of the snakes! Have at thee!
*Commences throwing live snakes at the Pain*
MGS3 is one of my favorite 'make your own fun' games, because there is so much potential for shennanigans thanks to all the various items and situations, plus the fact that you will nearly always get a reaction from trying them.
God Hand: Instead of using a super-powerful move for my final combo attack while fighting the final boss, I decided it was apt to use 'Pimp Slap' for my final attack on the lord of darkness, plus I started a new game dressed in the Madi-gras outfit, the outfit similar to the two homosexual's, using only drunken master and slapping moves, although I just read that back and that just seems rather creepy. Ah well. I'm contemplating playing it with the Guitar hero controller soon and having the tilt mechanism activate the crazy go nuts god hand mode. I may try a 'Kick me' run soon, a mode where you keep the 'kick me' sign on Gene's back by not using any god hand powers.
Castlevania DoS: I'v just beaten Aguni only using my fists as weapons and not using souls that do any direct damage, for example, I'd use the mach speed punch attack you get with the Kraiser knuckle whilst using Zephyr's time stop move. It was hilarious with the warewolves.
*Time stop*
*thwackthwackthwackthwackthwackthwackthwackthwackthwackthwackthwack
thwackthwackthwackthwackthwackthwackthwackthwackthwackthwackthwack
thwackthwackthwackthwackthwackthwackthwackthwackthwackthwackthwack
vthwackthwackthwackthwackthwackthwackthwackthwackthwackthwackthwack*
*Time unfreezes*
Warewolf- 'Oh holy shit, where did I get this migrane from?! My brain is on fire!! Nyaaarrrggghhhh!'
Fallout: Whomping people over the head at every oppertunity with a crowbar whilst shouting 'GORDON FREEMAN!'
F.E.A.R.: Getting 2 hors into the game on hard mode only using kung-fu. I loved the melle moves so much, plus really enjoyed the game in general, so after beating the hardest difficulty, I decided I should try and get as far as possible using only Kung-Fu, ad you know what? It's an entirley now game and fucking fun, it shows how well the guards are programmed since you can really outwit them, confuse them and use their own tactics against them to deafeat them. For example, I dove into a room, snuck around a little and punched a dud in the head, his comerades saw me and I ran after taking another out. They decided to flank me by going in the opposite direction and cutting off my escape s they registered that I was trying to flank them, so I doubled back and actually snuck up on 3 guys who were clearing the hallway that they thought I was origonally going to use to flank them. The Ai is so freaking good in that game, and combined with the subtle stealth mechanics and fun and effective kung-fu makes for one awesome experience. I call this a 'Metal FEAR solid' run, I got up to bit with the guy tied to a chair (the dude with the eaten off face) before I realised I couldn't continue as the enemy was on a higer plane than me. I'll have to start using explosives.
You can make your own fun in any game as long as you can think of something that will make the game even more fun if you can sucsesfully pull it off, like I'll make something up now. Hmm, how about... playing Doom 3 with only the flashlight and chainsaw as weapons? I realised I killed quite a few demons with the flashlight and the chainsaw is one of the best weapons in the game. Could be fun.
EDIT: may as well throw in that I felt that I was so good at Viewtiful Joe that I could beat it wit my eyes closed, so I started level 2-2, turned the contrast and brightness down so the screen was black and clearned the entire room out only be using my knowledge of the enemy positions and the sounds they made. I only took two hits.
I wouldn't argue that this is encouraged, and it might not fall under the sandbox play the OP mentioned - it's a different route to achieving the game's original objective, not a new objective entirely. It certainly, though, improves the intended atmosphere for the second half of the game greatly -
(Profit?)
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
1. Plant land mine on doorstep of random encounter house
2. run away
3. get enemy soldiers' attention
4. front door opens
5. most definitely profit
Ninja mode(Knives only, no sound footsteps, latch to walls, explosives OK) was the most glorious thing I ever saw that an admin could enforce.
100 MPH car-crushing rocket.
There was one part inside a building between two parts of breakable glass leading back to the street, which served as goals. There were several bulletin board things shaped like rectangular boxes which served as the balls. We would clear the room of everything except one ball and then go at it.
http://lostgarden.com/2006/07/playground-game-design-as-sustainable.html
"Playground Game Design as a Sustainable Competitive Advantage"
XBL Michael Spencer || Wii 6007 6812 1605 7315 || PSN MichaelSpencerJr || Steam Michael_Spencer || Ham NOØK
QRZ || My last known GPS coordinates: FindU or APRS.fi (Car antenna feed line busted -- no ham radio for me X__X )
YES
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwR2EicxuAc&NR
I had fun blowing up shit in Driv3r.
Also, shooting drivers through their windshield, opening the door, and having their body fall out.
3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
Battle.Net: JohnDarc#1203 Origin/UPlay: CoolJammer00
Me and my brother actually made a game of that. We'd stand two tanks on end to use a goal posts and take turns trying to blow a hog through them.
http://zacks.selfip.net/zelda.mp4
what?
Private Message me with pics, please.
If you put eight blocks under a car and then detonated the explosion would be so powerful that the car would take two or three minutes to come down. It was awesome one time I did this, I had blown up a car a minute or two ago and was shooting some North Koreans only to have a flaming car come shooting out of the sky and wipe out all of them with three big bounces.
Oh it's such a nice day, I think I'll go out the window! Whoa!
I'm always taking time to explore every nook and cranny in whatever game I'm playing (which often leads to some really cool discoveries), and every so often I'll spot a place that looks like it could be a "weak spot" in the level geometry, and sometimes I'll be able to get whatever character I'm playing physically outside of the game level. It's pretty fun. Seeing whatever method the developer has put in place to prevent you from getting outside (whether it be something like making your character crash and automatically respawn back inside the level like the THPS games, or just a bunch of high walls like most FPS-s), testing it, and eventually finding a weakness and exploiting it has always been a source of fun for me.
I think that I'd make a really good QA guy. I lived in Irvine California a few years ago, and if I hadn't moved I probably would be doing something like that. Here in Eugene Oregon there (as far as I know) aren't any software houses since Dynamix left, though.
Steam / Bus Blog / Goozex Referral
The open ended design and huge amount of interactivity are just begging to be challenged by some pretty extreme limits, like no kills, or melee weapons only, or even no weapons at all.
The best thing about it, though, is that at any given moment in the game, you can think of some unorthodox or completely insane plan... And have it actually work. Building a giant tower of crates to get over a wall is just the tip of the iceberg. Ever scared an NPC into a hallway made of crates to get them to open a locked door for you? Killed a man by dropping a couch on his head? Started a war between different factions of MJ12? The AI's reactions to some of the crazy shit you could do tended to be hilarious as well.
There were lots of bugs, too, which tended to enhance the experience rather than lessening it. See Sunglasses at Night.
The sequel (whatever else you have to say about it) is no slouch in the misbehaviour department either.
Starting massive fires, inciting riots, setting up "Accidents" with the flaming barrels, torturing people with spider bots, causing SSC guards to spin around so fast that they spontaneously die, framing people for murder... It's glorious.
I wish they would remake DX with modern technology, just for new possibilities that the improved physics and AI would bring.
Id have to nominate Spiderman 2 for random fun. Theres a sick joy i get from picking up a wounded man, and plummeting off buildings while he begs me to just take him to the hospital
Also that game is baddass because you can challenge yourself simply by getting from point A to poind B in the classiest way. Its impossible to go in a perfectly straight line because you are limited to the height, distance and frequency of tall buildings, so you can only plan your route as far as you can see.... And most of the time it includes blind leaps of faith. Trying to best my top speed of 280mph has been pretty hard so far.
So we'd run around with grenade launchers and proxy mines galore and attempt to kill one another and ourselves at the same time.
Tony Hawk's 2: The map maker was glorious for making your own fun. Any game with one is. Because it's extending the life of the game. Anyways when we wanted a ridiculously high score with minimal effort, we'd build what we called islands.
We'd use the pool tool, and use 4 corner units to create a stalagmite (island). Then we'd turn on perfect balance and moon gravity. After that all you had to do was grind on the island, and set the control down. You'd go for an infinite amount of time, so we could go get some lunch and come back to our characters which were never dizzy.
In Co-op this created ghost shooting.
The basic premise is much like clay pigeon shooting; one player parks the tank parrell to the end of the ramp with a good amount of distance between the two. The other player takes the ghost and launches themselves off the ramp. The aim is for the Tank to attempt to blow up the ghost before it hits the ground. the players then swap rolls and continue until the ghost becomes unusable.
Where Madness and the Fantasical Come to Play
Nothing says fun like using the enemy mortar turret as a check point. The added bonus of having 3 missile locks at once is also nice.
I also hosted a classic server a few times and did juggy races with a few friends. Various rules applied, such as no energy pack, or a heavy pack like the inventory. Loads of fun.
Tweaked the cloak pack to remove the sound it made and make the cloaking effect passive. Hunting down the invisible guy on team DM's was always a blast. Being the invisible guy was even better.
Man, that game still has so much potential.
Second this game, only as a member of Team Annoying Bastard.
Setting up turrets next to the enemy generator to disable it is goddamned hilarious.
Especially when you use the turrets to kill the generator every five minutes.
And then there's disc-sniping deployable inventory stations.
Then, once out of discs/rockets, running back to your cleverly placed inventory station about 400 "meters" away from the enemy base to rearm and repair.
Then having half of the entire enemy team get sick of having a targeting laser shined in their face, so you run away to the middle of nowhere, and have about 5 dumbasses follow you.
Basically, you have to be sure to take yourself out of FPS mode before a cutscene occurs on Annihilation Nation. For some reason, if you're in first person, on that particular planet, and a cutscene begins, the game freezes at the end of the cutscene, and it autosaves just before the cutscene, meaning the game will freeze afterward every time you reload the game. There are only three cutscenes on that planet, so if you can remember where they are, and go into third person before each one occurs, you're cool.
It's weird mostly because Insomniac's programming is usually pretty solid.
Also, Deadlocked can be played in first person, and that's a good way to get a bit more life out of that game as well.
3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
Battle.Net: JohnDarc#1203 Origin/UPlay: CoolJammer00
They wisened up a little with enchanting and alchemy in Oblivion, but there's still a lot of fun stuff to be done. Plus, Radiant AI opens up a whole new set of possibilities. The People's Glorious Republic of Arcane University is one such example.
Games that encourage exploration and build levels reflecting that especially do it.
I'll have to add to the Deus Ex train a bit here. One of the earliest things you can do is enter the woman's restroom at UNATCO headquarters, whereupon you freak out a secretary. Then later on after you finish meeting with your boss, he notes that he would prefer you avoid entering women's restrooms. A good while later on in the game, the secretary has a conversation with a soldier about that incident that you can overhear, and afterwards she points out that you were the peeping tom. Stuff like that just encourages you to spend time messing around trying to just see everything.
Games that acknowledge what kind of approach you took also encourage this.
Although I'm nowhere near as fond of it as many other members here, I'll also throw the Hitman series into the mix. There's a mission in Blood Money where you have to take out a target in a suburb who is guarded by FBI agents. He is also preparing a birthday party for his son. Now, if you do this very professionally, doing things like minimizing casualties, hiding the few bodies you create in a manhole or in a garbage truck, and killing the target by pushing the guy over the stairs instead of using firearms, it's reflected in the newspaper report you read after the level detailing the incident. If you use a bit more brutality and fire more shots, you get a ballistics analysis added to the paper. But that's still fairly conventional. You wind up with a VERY different profile and rating if you kill one of the neighbors and take her gardening shears, then kill the birthday clown and use his suit as a disguise, and then proceed to "prune" every living thing on the map. Things seldom get that outlandish in the game, but the few moments that do stand out. And the fact that the game acknowledges that you used such a non-conventional method encourages you to think about them.
Finally, games that provide you with more tools than goals definitely encourage this. This ties in with giving the players more than one way to do something, but to really see it in action, just look at any Will Wright game.
The Sims isn't exactly hardcore, but Maxis KNOWS that people like to find ways to dick around and provides built in recording tools so you can show off what you wrought.
This goes back to SimCity which gave you the option to call down disasters at your own leisure despite the fact that summoning and earthquake or Godzilla in know way helps you achieve your goal of making a successful metropolis. But being like 8 or 10 at the time, it sure occupied more of my time than trying to balance the budget.
Steam Profile
3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772