Which isnt to say they did things wrong, gameplay wise. For example, shotguns overriding last stand was a good change. getting kill credit for downing a guy into last stand, good change. Flak Jacket actually stoping explosive damage, good thing.
last stand as a perk, bad thing. sniping, way easier for the sniper (i dont say this is a bad thing cause i enjoy sniping in blops and mw2, not mw3 however)
ghost without stopping power, and killstreaks that dont stack leading to UAV spam. bad. thing.
That said, I still like blops. It isnt as fun or as hard as MW2 or 3 because of broken ass black bird and terrible spawns, but its an alright game. I hope treyarch keeps improving cause the change from W@W to Blops is enormous. So high hopes for the same improvement between blops and blops2.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Yeah, I will give credit where credit is due in that Treyarch actually listens to their community and is willing to make big changes to their gameplay to make it more fun.
Which isnt to say they did things wrong, gameplay wise. For example, shotguns overriding last stand was a good change. getting kill credit for downing a guy into last stand, good change. Flak Jacket actually stoping explosive damage, good thing.
last stand as a perk, bad thing. sniping, way easier for the sniper (i dont say this is a bad thing cause i enjoy sniping in blops and mw2, not mw3 however)
ghost without stopping power, and killstreaks that dont stack leading to UAV spam. bad. thing.
That said, I still like blops. It isnt as fun or as hard as MW2 or 3 because of broken ass black bird and terrible spawns, but its an alright game. I hope treyarch keeps improving cause the change from W@W to Blops is enormous. So high hopes for the same improvement between blops and blops2.
Unless I'm misunderstanding you, which is always possible, I think that the spawn problems in Blops are better described as map problems. There were some maps where it was really easy to get spawn trapped, but at least the game would spawn you in safe spot the rest of the time.
That said, I definitely preferred the maps in Blops. The ones in MW3 always felt so small. But the real thing I'm looking forward to is a higher TTK on the weapons.
Well, I'm excited for Black Ops 2. I'm not sure if I care for Modern Warfare 4, though.
I just hope everyone returns for our annual screaming matches. I absolutely do not want to play any Call of Duty game by myself with pubs.
Here's another question for the group: is anyone getting Halo 4? I kind of want it, too - the multiplayer stream going right now is showing off a giant mech - but I don't know if I'll be able to get it right away. It's either Black Ops 2 or Halo 4 and I'm leaning toward the former at the moment.
Dashui on
Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
Dont know if itll embed, cause im on my phone, still. But. Look at how many people spawn in that 3x3ft room, with one exit, an four enemies camped outside it. This is a primary spawn on Hanoi. THIS IS STILL A SPAWN. No fix. I guess it is fine as is.
Burtletoy on
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fearsomepirateI ate a pickle once.Registered Userregular
Yes. They took the only annoying deathstreak. Made it stronger. And made it a perk that ~1/4th of the player base uses.
Last Stand was a perk in COD4 and WaW before it was a deathstreak in MW2. It's back to being a perk in BlOps because BlOps has no deathstreaks.
I don't see what the big deal with Last Stand is. It's a weak perk, but people act like it's super-powerful. It was worthless in CoD4 and WaW. It's 7% less worthless in BlOps, yet it causes 800% more tears.
I don't see how the Blackbird was broken. Counter-spy planes and sensor jammers both negate the blackbird. IMO the biggest flaw is not having class-specific killstreaks, since you can't do something like switch to your class with counter-spy plane when you realize no one is running it on your team. Maybe it should have been a 10-streak, though.
Also, Stopping Power was the worst perk ever. I'm glad it's gone now.
fearsomepirate on
Nobody makes me bleed my own blood...nobody.
PSN ID: fearsomepirate
Certain spawns in Black Ops should definitely be looked at, but I get the impression that Treyarch isn't actually capable of adding or moving spawn points after release. I dunno. Seems to me like it would be an easy fix, but maybe it isn't. I know that when the community realized how easy it was to spawn trap enemies in Demolition on maps like Jungle and Havana, they just took those maps out of the rotation for that game mode. I figured it would have been easier to adjust a few of the spawns -like, move them outside the primary kill zone- but maybe that's not an option?
I still think the spawns in Black Ops are pretty good, though. If I had to rate the series in terms of "best to worst" spawns, I'd probably order them something like: Black Ops -> Call of Duty 4, Modern Warfare 2 -> World at War -> Modern Warfare 3. That's just my opinion, though. I like BLOPs spawns because they're touchy, but if you've got good communication and map control, you can pretty easily set up a good trap. Call of Duty 4 (and Modern Warfare 2, to a much lesser extent) had spawns that you could push balls deep into without flipping the enemy team. Seriously, forget setting up spawn traps -- in Call of Duty 4, you camp enemies from inside their spawns. It's like playing Demolition on Black Ops every game.
World at War had okay enough spawns, but I feel like each map should have had more spawning positions. Even on some of the larger maps, I felt like I popped out of the same spawn every single time I died. That probably should have been adjusted, if possible.
And Modern Warfare 3 has my least favorite spawns in the series; they're just all over the place, and enemies spawn in behind you constantly. The number of times I've seen a final killcam that was basically "Guy dies, respawns, turns a corner, and revenge-kills the guy who just dropped him while he's still reloading" is a little out of hand. I don't think it's intentional, though. Prior to release, I watched several development interviews where the guys at Infinity Ward said that they felt like they needed to adjust the old MW2 spawning system, because people were spawning in "a little too close" to the action, and they wanted to pull them back to give people more time to breathe after dying. If that was their goal, then they really dropped the ball on that one, because that's now how MW3 plays at all.
I'm hoping Black Ops II features pretty much the same spawning system the original had. Maybe a few tweaks here and there, of course -there certainly are some spawns that needed to be fixed and never were- but overall, I'd be really happy if they went that route.
I don't see how the Blackbird was broken. Counter-spy planes and sensor jammers both negate the blackbird. IMO the biggest flaw is not having class-specific killstreaks, since you can't do something like switch to your class with counter-spy plane when you realize no one is running it on your team.
There's really nothing wrong with the Blackbird, in my opinion. If you're pubstomping scrubs, you're going to win whether you've got an SR-71 or not. And if you manage to go on an 8-kill tear against a tough, coordinated enemy team, you've earned that kind of an advantage. Also, like you said: Counter Spy Planes are a hard counter, and anybody expecting to run up against Blackbirds runs them. Surely, folks can manage to score the 4 kills required to summon one up.
I played a couple weeks of gametime of each MW/MW2/Blops, which isn't super impressive but also isn't insignificant. I actually had the most fun playing MW2, but I'd hardly contend that it's a better game. DC/OMA, MLC'ing, nukes, stacking killstreaks, 1887's, javelin glitch...MW2 was a real clusterfuck of a game. MW was a blast and obviously the biggest step forward, and I think I enjoyed it so much because the whole time I was thinking "man, they're on to something here."
Blops was my first Treyarch game and I felt pretty tied to IW. I had a fucking blast. Theater mode, wager matches, codbucks and emblems...it was good times. I don't remember hating spawns as much in Blops. I don't remember having as much of a problem with quickscopers/dropshooters in Blops. If more of my friends played Blops, it easily would've topped MW2 on my list.
I steered away from MW3 because I was kind of burnt out and wasn't excited enough about the new-IW stuff. I borrowed and played it for a total of like 5 hours I think, and now I miss the social experience so I'll give Blops2 a go.
TL;DR...everyone just play what's more fun for you and don't poop on someone else's parade just because they're enjoying the game that's not your favorite.
Well, I'm excited for Black Ops 2. I'm not sure if I care for Modern Warfare 4, though.
I just hope everyone returns for our annual screaming matches. I absolutely do not want to play any Call of Duty game by myself with pubs.
Here's another question for the group: is anyone getting Halo 4? I kind of want it, too - the multiplayer stream going right now is showing off a giant mech - but I don't know if I'll be able to get it right away. It's either Black Ops 2 or Halo 4 and I'm leaning toward the former at the moment.
I'm getting Blops2 and seeing how it is, if its terribad I'll snag Halo4 and play that with any coddudebros who have it. But Blops first and we will see how that goes.
Also whoever was making the new thread now is a good time to quote the OP and fire up a new one and adding the link to this thread at the bottom for record keeping.
Yes. They took the only annoying deathstreak. Made it stronger. And made it a perk that ~1/4th of the player base uses.
Last Stand was a perk in COD4 and WaW before it was a deathstreak in MW2. It's back to being a perk in BlOps because BlOps has no deathstreaks.
I don't see what the big deal with Last Stand is. It's a weak perk, but people act like it's super-powerful. It was worthless in CoD4 and WaW. It's 7% less worthless in BlOps, yet it causes 800% more tears.
I don't see how the Blackbird was broken. Counter-spy planes and sensor jammers both negate the blackbird. IMO the biggest flaw is not having class-specific killstreaks, since you can't do something like switch to your class with counter-spy plane when you realize no one is running it on your team. Maybe it should have been a 10-streak, though.
Also, Stopping Power was the worst perk ever. I'm glad it's gone now.
Blackbirds were a stacking streak in a game where nothing else stacked. CSPs and jammers can be destroyed, blackbirds cant. It was 40 seconds of invincibility for anyone with half a brain.
Also trying to balance shit based on counters is stupid.
e: and from what I've seen, class specific streaks aren't in blops2
dinoarus on
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fearsomepirateI ate a pickle once.Registered Userregular
Yes, CSPs and jammers can be destroyed, but they're also easier to get. You can also mitigate the effects of a Blackbird with teamwork and caution. I might agree that 45 seconds is too long, though. But still, it's not as insane as getting a Huey on Nuketown.
And no, the Blackbird is no more a "stacking streak" than the Spy Plane is.
Also trying to balance shit based on counters is stupid.
I guess then all competitive games are unbalanced, since the only way to not lose is to counter the opposing team's efforts to win somehow.
Nobody makes me bleed my own blood...nobody.
PSN ID: fearsomepirate
Yes. They took the only annoying deathstreak. Made it stronger. And made it a perk that ~1/4th of the player base uses.
Last Stand was a perk in COD4 and WaW before it was a deathstreak in MW2. It's back to being a perk in BlOps because BlOps has no deathstreaks.
I don't see what the big deal with Last Stand is. It's a weak perk, but people act like it's super-powerful. It was worthless in CoD4 and WaW. It's 7% less worthless in BlOps, yet it causes 800% more tears.
Land Stand was a terrible perk in CoD4. W@W was a reskin of CoD4 with tanks added in, and also a terrible game, so I'm not sure what you are getting at mentioning it. Last Stand in blops was more powerful than either of the above, what with the revive function, and iirc the timer for bleeding out in last stand in Blops is, like, twice as long as the previous games.
Just because [terrible perk] was in previous games (and also terrible in those previous games) doesn't mean we shouldn't call it terrible in this game.
Yes, CSPs and jammers can be destroyed, but they're also easier to get. You can also mitigate the effects of a Blackbird with teamwork and caution. I might agree that 45 seconds is too long, though. But still, it's not as insane as getting a Huey on Nuketown.
And no, the Blackbird is no more a "stacking streak" than the Spy Plane is.
Also trying to balance shit based on counters is stupid.
I guess then all competitive games are unbalanced, since the only way to not lose is to counter the opposing team's efforts to win somehow.
Spy planes can be shot down, and also ghost.
Blackbird is the only streak that stacks. (Into an entire match with never ending blackbirds)
Yes, CSPs and jammers can be destroyed, but they're also easier to get. You can also mitigate the effects of a Blackbird with teamwork and caution. I might agree that 45 seconds is too long, though. But still, it's not as insane as getting a Huey on Nuketown.
And no, the Blackbird is no more a "stacking streak" than the Spy Plane is.
Also trying to balance shit based on counters is stupid.
I guess then all competitive games are unbalanced, since the only way to not lose is to counter the opposing team's efforts to win somehow.
hard counters like blackbird vs CSPs are dumb.
counters that add variety like stopping power vs coldblooded,flak jacket vs lightweight or assassin vs hardline are far more interesting.
huey on nuketown is dumb cause nuketown is a terrible map. blackbird works on every single map.
Yes, CSPs and jammers can be destroyed, but they're also easier to get. You can also mitigate the effects of a Blackbird with teamwork and caution. I might agree that 45 seconds is too long, though. But still, it's not as insane as getting a Huey on Nuketown.
And no, the Blackbird is no more a "stacking streak" than the Spy Plane is.
Also trying to balance shit based on counters is stupid.
I guess then all competitive games are unbalanced, since the only way to not lose is to counter the opposing team's efforts to win somehow.
hard counters like blackbird vs CSPs are dumb.
counters that add variety like stopping power vs coldblooded,flak jacket vs lightweight or assassin vs hardline are far more interesting.
huey on nuketown is dumb cause nuketown is a terrible map. blackbird works on every single map.
Much like CoD games, I took the prior thread and tweaked a few things that people hated and added more stuff they didn't need. Basically, I'm reselling you the same thread! Move on people!
Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
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fearsomepirateI ate a pickle once.Registered Userregular
Just because [terrible perk] was in previous games (and also terrible in those previous games) doesn't mean we shouldn't call it terrible in this game.
Just because you don't like a perk doesn't mean we should start calling it a "deathstreak."
Last Stand was super-weak in CoD4/WaW. The only weaker perk was Shades.
fearsomepirate on
Nobody makes me bleed my own blood...nobody.
PSN ID: fearsomepirate
Much like CoD games, I took the prior thread and tweaked a few things that people hated and added more stuff they didn't need. Basically, I'm reselling you the same thread! Move on people!
Posts
last stand as a perk, bad thing. sniping, way easier for the sniper (i dont say this is a bad thing cause i enjoy sniping in blops and mw2, not mw3 however)
ghost without stopping power, and killstreaks that dont stack leading to UAV spam. bad. thing.
That said, I still like blops. It isnt as fun or as hard as MW2 or 3 because of broken ass black bird and terrible spawns, but its an alright game. I hope treyarch keeps improving cause the change from W@W to Blops is enormous. So high hopes for the same improvement between blops and blops2.
Just wish it was more fun to begin with.
FFXIV - Milliardo Beoulve/Sargatanas
Unless I'm misunderstanding you, which is always possible, I think that the spawn problems in Blops are better described as map problems. There were some maps where it was really easy to get spawn trapped, but at least the game would spawn you in safe spot the rest of the time.
That said, I definitely preferred the maps in Blops. The ones in MW3 always felt so small. But the real thing I'm looking forward to is a higher TTK on the weapons.
I just hope everyone returns for our annual screaming matches. I absolutely do not want to play any Call of Duty game by myself with pubs.
Here's another question for the group: is anyone getting Halo 4? I kind of want it, too - the multiplayer stream going right now is showing off a giant mech - but I don't know if I'll be able to get it right away. It's either Black Ops 2 or Halo 4 and I'm leaning toward the former at the moment.
Dont know if itll embed, cause im on my phone, still. But. Look at how many people spawn in that 3x3ft room, with one exit, an four enemies camped outside it. This is a primary spawn on Hanoi. THIS IS STILL A SPAWN. No fix. I guess it is fine as is.
I don't see what the big deal with Last Stand is. It's a weak perk, but people act like it's super-powerful. It was worthless in CoD4 and WaW. It's 7% less worthless in BlOps, yet it causes 800% more tears.
I don't see how the Blackbird was broken. Counter-spy planes and sensor jammers both negate the blackbird. IMO the biggest flaw is not having class-specific killstreaks, since you can't do something like switch to your class with counter-spy plane when you realize no one is running it on your team. Maybe it should have been a 10-streak, though.
Also, Stopping Power was the worst perk ever. I'm glad it's gone now.
PSN ID: fearsomepirate
I still think the spawns in Black Ops are pretty good, though. If I had to rate the series in terms of "best to worst" spawns, I'd probably order them something like: Black Ops -> Call of Duty 4, Modern Warfare 2 -> World at War -> Modern Warfare 3. That's just my opinion, though. I like BLOPs spawns because they're touchy, but if you've got good communication and map control, you can pretty easily set up a good trap. Call of Duty 4 (and Modern Warfare 2, to a much lesser extent) had spawns that you could push balls deep into without flipping the enemy team. Seriously, forget setting up spawn traps -- in Call of Duty 4, you camp enemies from inside their spawns. It's like playing Demolition on Black Ops every game.
World at War had okay enough spawns, but I feel like each map should have had more spawning positions. Even on some of the larger maps, I felt like I popped out of the same spawn every single time I died. That probably should have been adjusted, if possible.
And Modern Warfare 3 has my least favorite spawns in the series; they're just all over the place, and enemies spawn in behind you constantly. The number of times I've seen a final killcam that was basically "Guy dies, respawns, turns a corner, and revenge-kills the guy who just dropped him while he's still reloading" is a little out of hand. I don't think it's intentional, though. Prior to release, I watched several development interviews where the guys at Infinity Ward said that they felt like they needed to adjust the old MW2 spawning system, because people were spawning in "a little too close" to the action, and they wanted to pull them back to give people more time to breathe after dying. If that was their goal, then they really dropped the ball on that one, because that's now how MW3 plays at all.
I'm hoping Black Ops II features pretty much the same spawning system the original had. Maybe a few tweaks here and there, of course -there certainly are some spawns that needed to be fixed and never were- but overall, I'd be really happy if they went that route.
There's really nothing wrong with the Blackbird, in my opinion. If you're pubstomping scrubs, you're going to win whether you've got an SR-71 or not. And if you manage to go on an 8-kill tear against a tough, coordinated enemy team, you've earned that kind of an advantage. Also, like you said: Counter Spy Planes are a hard counter, and anybody expecting to run up against Blackbirds runs them. Surely, folks can manage to score the 4 kills required to summon one up.
I played a couple weeks of gametime of each MW/MW2/Blops, which isn't super impressive but also isn't insignificant. I actually had the most fun playing MW2, but I'd hardly contend that it's a better game. DC/OMA, MLC'ing, nukes, stacking killstreaks, 1887's, javelin glitch...MW2 was a real clusterfuck of a game. MW was a blast and obviously the biggest step forward, and I think I enjoyed it so much because the whole time I was thinking "man, they're on to something here."
Blops was my first Treyarch game and I felt pretty tied to IW. I had a fucking blast. Theater mode, wager matches, codbucks and emblems...it was good times. I don't remember hating spawns as much in Blops. I don't remember having as much of a problem with quickscopers/dropshooters in Blops. If more of my friends played Blops, it easily would've topped MW2 on my list.
I steered away from MW3 because I was kind of burnt out and wasn't excited enough about the new-IW stuff. I borrowed and played it for a total of like 5 hours I think, and now I miss the social experience so I'll give Blops2 a go.
TL;DR...everyone just play what's more fun for you and don't poop on someone else's parade just because they're enjoying the game that's not your favorite.
I'm getting Blops2 and seeing how it is, if its terribad I'll snag Halo4 and play that with any coddudebros who have it. But Blops first and we will see how that goes.
Also whoever was making the new thread now is a good time to quote the OP and fire up a new one and adding the link to this thread at the bottom for record keeping.
Blackbirds were a stacking streak in a game where nothing else stacked. CSPs and jammers can be destroyed, blackbirds cant. It was 40 seconds of invincibility for anyone with half a brain.
Also trying to balance shit based on counters is stupid.
e: and from what I've seen, class specific streaks aren't in blops2
And no, the Blackbird is no more a "stacking streak" than the Spy Plane is. I guess then all competitive games are unbalanced, since the only way to not lose is to counter the opposing team's efforts to win somehow.
PSN ID: fearsomepirate
Land Stand was a terrible perk in CoD4. W@W was a reskin of CoD4 with tanks added in, and also a terrible game, so I'm not sure what you are getting at mentioning it. Last Stand in blops was more powerful than either of the above, what with the revive function, and iirc the timer for bleeding out in last stand in Blops is, like, twice as long as the previous games.
Just because [terrible perk] was in previous games (and also terrible in those previous games) doesn't mean we shouldn't call it terrible in this game.
Spy planes can be shot down, and also ghost.
Blackbird is the only streak that stacks. (Into an entire match with never ending blackbirds)
hard counters like blackbird vs CSPs are dumb.
counters that add variety like stopping power vs coldblooded,flak jacket vs lightweight or assassin vs hardline are far more interesting.
huey on nuketown is dumb cause nuketown is a terrible map. blackbird works on every single map.
Bro. You wanna take another whack at that one?
Much like CoD games, I took the prior thread and tweaked a few things that people hated and added more stuff they didn't need. Basically, I'm reselling you the same thread! Move on people!
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Last Stand was super-weak in CoD4/WaW. The only weaker perk was Shades.
PSN ID: fearsomepirate
IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE.