fearsomepirateI ate a pickle once.Registered Userregular
edited October 2012
I never played MW3 online, so I don't know what you're talking about. Sounds like the point schedule is imbalanced, not that points are intrinsically a bad idea.
And capping points isn't something people should be doing.
You cannot win a game of Domination in any game except MW2 if no one takes flags.
An ideal game of Domination would have two caps total for the entire game, for the winning team.
And an ideal game of TDM ends 7500-0. If the other team isn't full of scrubs, flags will switch hands, and when that happens, you need to take them back if winning is the goal. And that's my problem with COD...most people play Dom with the goal of boosting their K/D or making 360-no-scope vids on YouTube, not winning.
fearsomepirate on
Nobody makes me bleed my own blood...nobody.
PSN ID: fearsomepirate
I like the idea of scorestreaks. They seem to blur the line between Assault and Support streaks in MW3. Players like myself can run a Riot Shield now and still get streaks going, without the need of Hardline Pro. I'm still not going to get the high end stuff because of reset on death, so you don't get the Support shinanigans again.
Basically, when I see the final score results on the screen and see that I'm near the top of the list even with a shitty k/d, my score streaks will actually reflect that now.
Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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And, anyways, the main point I was making is, this is all stuff MW3 already did. And people in MW3 still play TDM in every mode. Doing it again isn't going to fix anything.
Maybe the cure is to let people play CoD like they want to, rather than how you want them to.
fearsomepirateI ate a pickle once.Registered Userregular
I guess the cure would be to remove all the objective-based modes so people like me don't get tricked into thinking there are things to do other than TDM.
Either that, or put in AI bots that are programmed to play the objectives so people who want to play Capture the Flag actually can. Hey, wait, they did that in this one! Non-coincidentally, this is the first COD I'm buying new.
Nobody makes me bleed my own blood...nobody.
PSN ID: fearsomepirate
And, anyways, the main point I was making is, this is all stuff MW3 already did. And people in MW3 still play TDM in every mode. Doing it again isn't going to fix anything.
Maybe the cure is to let people play CoD like they want to, rather than how you want them to.
My fun always came from trying to drag a team full of headless chickens to victory. That's what pubby Dom was for.
Unfortunately, Mw3 dun went and killed that there fun by making it impossible to loosely patrol two objectives at once.
I just do the smart thing and only play TDM when pubbing.
This. You wanna play objective-based games? Play with a group, or accept that you're playing with people who aren't quite sure what a noun is and the game's score is gonna reflect that. 'Cause that kid who's trying to get his sik-36o-nah-skopz? He ain't gonna care if he's not getting as many points/XP. The reason he's playing Dom is because Dom lasts longer than TDM, so he's got longer to get his montage-clips/streaks.
Brutle's <shudder> right. People aren't gonna play the game how you want them to play (hi, Ducks! ;-) ), and you're not a Master Cat Herder so you're not going to be able to drag them, kicking and screaming, onto the flag you wanna take.
This isn't to say that it's not annoying when you drop into a random Dom game and you're the only one even thinking about flags; just that things like that are to be expected on the internets.
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Psychotic OneThe Lord of No PantsParts UnknownRegistered Userregular
I always find it funny in BLops and MW3 where I'm made fun of for actually defending the objective. Apparently preventing the enemy from easily walking to the objective and scoring points makes me some sort of nazi jew lizard as opposed to the guys who charge towards the red objective like Leroy Jenkins.
NocrenLt Futz, Back in ActionNorth CarolinaRegistered Userregular
Depends on the situation (usually, where I spawn in relation to my "team" and objectives). Oh look, everyone's heading for/at B/C and I'm at A? Hold the line!
Teams' at A and I spawn at B, with C just sitting there? Leeroy! Guide my hand!
This is probably why my k/D is no where near a whole number.
I don't think I agree with Burtle at all. For one thing you're saying that capturing points is not what you should be doing, then you say we should just let people play however they want. For me,when I play objective games, I want to complete the game as intended. That means managing defense and attack. You're all right in that it's nearly impossible with pubbies, but they key word is 'nearly' Lots of game have managed to make it work (BF, Red Orchestra, Halo 3). All of those games have this lack of kill-streaks in common, and slightly less emphasis on K/D.
I like what Treyarch are doing in regards to rewarding players more for doing objective based things (killing enemies near the objectives, capturing objectives) and less for killing random people on the map, because as people generally don't communicate, at least giving them an incentive towards a common purpose can make some kind of team work appear. In Halo 3 on Assault you'd often get a whole team running around doing their own thing, but then it wasn't uncommon to have a team start waiting for each other, covering each other and supporting even without talking. It made the games much more fun and a whole lot tenser.
I think Treyarch are definitely going down the right route, but I agree the punishments should be harsher for people ignoring the objectives. Giving them no xp is probably a bit far (not sure how frustrating it would be and would it just lead to people quitting mid-match since they had nothing to lose) but Battlefield's system of limiting spawns seems to work really well.
Maybe I'm just lucky, but most of the time when I pubbed it up in Dom games, there were a large number of like minded individuals who capped and held points with me. Even without communicating on the mic. Because nobody in their right mind plays pubbie CoD games with their mic volume up.
Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
Scorestreaks are a great idea. If I kill the guy protecting the flag, cap it, and killed the guy assaulting it, I've done WAY more for my team than the guy hunting around the edges of the map who racked up four kills in the same amount of time be picking off random stragglers who are equally disinterested in the game objectives, and I think I deserve at least an equal reward. With killstreaks, the most visceral rewards are given to the players who play every single mode as though it's Team Deathmatch. The average player is not going to choose getting 50XP and probably getting killed over getting to deploy an attack helicopter...and that's exactly what happens.
I think one of the biggest reasons Battlefield works is that if 75% of your team decides to pretend they're playing TDM, you end up getting hammered in your base and can't do anything fun.
If you want to emphasize winning versus killing there are better ways to do it, in my opinion. This is similar to the ham fisted way Treyarch nerfed mortar tubes in Blops the first.
Like, say the losing team doesn't get any experience. There, you made people want to win more than want to kill. This score streaks thing isn't going to do that in the same way as that would.
And, hell, MW3 already did this change. It didn't make more people play the objectives. This is like voting for Mitt Romney. We already tried all this shit, it didn't do what we wanted. Why would we do it again, BUT HARDER!!!
This is where it's at.
Score/point-streaks are a decent enough idea, but the concept could be implemented in better ways. If it were up to me, I'd probably do something like Brutle's suggesting: like, in objective game types, you don't gain XP for scoring kills. Instead, you gain a certain amount of XP for a win, and a certain amount of XP for a loss. Maybe provide bonus XP based on your margin of success, so if you won 200 to 56, you'd gain more XP than if you'd won 200 to 195.
I'd love something like that.
Having said that, though, I'm really looking forward to the new Ladder system you can queue up for. Once we get our ranking high enough, we'll basically always be playing against other full teams, or people who really want to win. I can't wait for that. I really cannot imagine how fun it's going to be to go into matches knowing that the other team isn't going to just sit in the goddamn corner to preserve their K/D while giving up the win.
I don't have a problem with XP in general, but rather how players don't play the objectives. Why not a variation on the rules where regular kills net no points towards scorestreaks. The only way to earn points would be:
-capturing objectives
-UAV assists
-kills while capturing or defending an objective
-destroy enemy equipment/streaks
-points over time for holding objectives (earn x number of points per objective held) but only if you were part of the capturing group
I know that custom game modes in the CoD series offer a lot of variations, but nothing quite this detailed. It would be great if there was a fully blown out game mode changing option to test community feel for experimental game modes. That way we could all come up with our own versions of how the game could be played and test it together for feedback. Oh well.
Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
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Doing anything related to holding back XP won't really work considering most people stop caring about their rank once they hit a certain point.
Many people play COD because of the killstreak system, so limiting your access to that system by encouraging certain gameplay styles makes a lot of sense to me.
Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
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fearsomepirateI ate a pickle once.Registered Userregular
I found a BlOps group shortly before MW3 hit, and they all moved on to that game.
Frankly, I think it was better before MW2 put so many killstreaks in the game. The killstreaks in MW1 and WaW were fun to get, but aside from dogs, getting them wasn't so exciting that people obsessed over it and made it the whole focus of playing.
I always find it funny in BLops and MW3 where I'm made fun of for actually defending the objective. Apparently preventing the enemy from easily walking to the objective and scoring points makes me some sort of nazi jew lizard as opposed to the guys who charge towards the red objective like Leroy Jenkins.
On a similar note, I discovered that winning in SnD makes you a tryhard camping n00bfag. Not my fault you came charging up the stairs after seeing two of your buddies die.
Seems to be the consensus of everyone that playing defensively is unfair and bad and n00bish and cheap and borderline cheating, so Treyarch is introducing things to try to stop players from setting up ambushes and generally wrecking the day of the ADHD kids.
Nobody makes me bleed my own blood...nobody.
PSN ID: fearsomepirate
I found a BlOps group shortly before MW3 hit, and they all moved on to that game.
Frankly, I think it was better before MW2 put so many killstreaks in the game. The killstreaks in MW1 and WaW were fun to get, but aside from dogs, getting them wasn't so exciting that people obsessed over it and made it the whole focus of playing.
I always find it funny in BLops and MW3 where I'm made fun of for actually defending the objective. Apparently preventing the enemy from easily walking to the objective and scoring points makes me some sort of nazi jew lizard as opposed to the guys who charge towards the red objective like Leroy Jenkins.
On a similar note, I discovered that winning in SnD makes you a tryhard camping n00bfag. Not my fault you came charging up the stairs after seeing two of your buddies die.
Seems to be the consensus of everyone that playing defensively is unfair and bad and n00bish and cheap and borderline cheating, so Treyarch is introducing things to try to stop players from setting up ambushes and generally wrecking the day of the ADHD kids.
Well, the problem with the game is camping is an unstable strategy. If everyone does it, the game fails to work.
So the trick is to allow playing defensively, but not encourage it to the point that everyone stands still.
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NocrenLt Futz, Back in ActionNorth CarolinaRegistered Userregular
HEY!!!! I'm sorta in the ADHD camp... whenever I played with my friend, her and her clan would always do HCTDM and everyone would find a corner and sit. Both Teams.
I found a BlOps group shortly before MW3 hit, and they all moved on to that game.
Frankly, I think it was better before MW2 put so many killstreaks in the game. The killstreaks in MW1 and WaW were fun to get, but aside from dogs, getting them wasn't so exciting that people obsessed over it and made it the whole focus of playing.
I always find it funny in BLops and MW3 where I'm made fun of for actually defending the objective. Apparently preventing the enemy from easily walking to the objective and scoring points makes me some sort of nazi jew lizard as opposed to the guys who charge towards the red objective like Leroy Jenkins.
On a similar note, I discovered that winning in SnD makes you a tryhard camping n00bfag. Not my fault you came charging up the stairs after seeing two of your buddies die.
Seems to be the consensus of everyone that playing defensively is unfair and bad and n00bish and cheap and borderline cheating, so Treyarch is introducing things to try to stop players from setting up ambushes and generally wrecking the day of the ADHD kids.
Well, the problem with the game is camping is an unstable strategy. If everyone does it, the game fails to work.
So the trick is to allow playing defensively, but not encourage it to the point that everyone stands still.
Exactly. It makes the game boring for everyone to camp. Gotta encourage movement.
and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
but they're listening to every word I say
HEY!!!! I'm sorta in the ADHD camp... whenever I played with my friend, her and her clan would always do HCTDM and everyone would find a corner and sit. Both Teams.
Really. Fucking. Annoying.
That was one thing I liked about blops over mw. I could consistently roll over campers because the ttk was a little slower.
and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
but they're listening to every word I say
I don't see a reason to slow down the access to kill streaks. MW3 moving streaks up the chart was fine because it gave tools to get them quicker with hardline pro, and playing the objective counting towards the killstreaks. I like the number of different streaks to choose because it lets you decide how you want your rewards to play out.
If they're going to keep support in it should be like CoD 4 kill streaks in that there is no customization. You get a uav, ballistic vest, and recon. I think CUAV would be too frustrating if everybody was throwing it up, and putting Stealth and EMP in support was fucked up from the beginning.
I found a BlOps group shortly before MW3 hit, and they all moved on to that game.
Frankly, I think it was better before MW2 put so many killstreaks in the game. The killstreaks in MW1 and WaW were fun to get, but aside from dogs, getting them wasn't so exciting that people obsessed over it and made it the whole focus of playing.
I always find it funny in BLops and MW3 where I'm made fun of for actually defending the objective. Apparently preventing the enemy from easily walking to the objective and scoring points makes me some sort of nazi jew lizard as opposed to the guys who charge towards the red objective like Leroy Jenkins.
On a similar note, I discovered that winning in SnD makes you a tryhard camping n00bfag. Not my fault you came charging up the stairs after seeing two of your buddies die.
Seems to be the consensus of everyone that playing defensively is unfair and bad and n00bish and cheap and borderline cheating, so Treyarch is introducing things to try to stop players from setting up ambushes and generally wrecking the day of the ADHD kids.
Also its hilarious to suggest that Treyarch disliked camping. For proof, see any Milk Ducks video.
For less asshole-ish proof look who first introduced the portable radar. The read some of Milk Ducks posts about Blops being better than MW3 because MW3 doesn't have power positions that let you camp like crazy.
I don't see a reason to slow down the access to kill streaks. MW3 moving streaks up the chart was fine because it gave tools to get them quicker with hardline pro, and playing the objective counting towards the killstreaks. I like the number of different streaks to choose because it lets you decide how you want your rewards to play out.
If they're going to keep support in it should be like CoD 4 kill streaks in that there is no customization. You get a uav, ballistic vest, and recon. I think CUAV would be too frustrating if everybody was throwing it up, and putting Stealth and EMP in support was fucked up from the beginning.
I will, once again, point out that the reason UAV\CUAV werent spammed in MW2, and the reason Cold Blooded wasnt OP as well, was because anyone with an AR could shoot them out of the sky with less than 1 clip.
side note for the sick triple: One of you people that is actually hyped for Blops2 should make a new thread that actually has info in the OP and what not.
side note for the sick triple: One of you people that is actually hyped for Blops2 should make a new thread that actually has info in the OP and what not.
Make other people excited, too.
I can update the OP with any info you want, I thought it was pretty much covered but if theres more shit needed to be added let me know and I'll edit it.
Also 7 pages till someone else makes the new thread.
I don't think the game will be released before it's time for a new thread. Personally, I say we make a new thread with general information in it and then clean it up once the game is out. And I'd totally make the new thread if no one else wants to.
Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051 Steam ID Twitch Page
If you preorder now you'll get double xp the first weekend the game is out.
Also Mountain Dew is giving away double xp to Halo 4 this time around so not only do I miss out on Dub xp, but awesome gamer fuel flavors. I don't know that, maybe I'll get some cool Halo flavor.
NocrenLt Futz, Back in ActionNorth CarolinaRegistered Userregular
They had orange+cherry for Halo 3 Gamer Fuel (with the extra caffeine). But I haven't seen any of that yet (you figured that they'd have it ready to go).
side note for the sick triple: One of you people that is actually hyped for Blops2 should make a new thread that actually has info in the OP and what not.
Make other people excited, too.
I can update the OP with any info you want, I thought it was pretty much covered but if theres more shit needed to be added let me know and I'll edit it.
Also 7 pages till someone else makes the new thread.
I mostly haven't checked the O in a while, but I know your opinion of the game, so I figued we should have someone else make one. Someone who is excited about the game.
We just got all the mountain dew stuff with double xp on the caps so I assumed the gamer fuel would be in already as well. I do love me some gamer fuel.
If you preorder now you'll get double xp the first weekend the game is out.
Also Mountain Dew is giving away double xp to Halo 4 this time around so not only do I miss out on Dub xp, but awesome gamer fuel flavors. I don't know that, maybe I'll get some cool Halo flavor.
I'll take your Halo 4 codes since I'm getting both games. Gotta spread the love!
I'll let you know about the codes later Spider since I'm going to rent Halo 4, and there is a possibility I might need them for myself. If not, they're all yours.
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PSN ID: fearsomepirate
Basically, when I see the final score results on the screen and see that I'm near the top of the list even with a shitty k/d, my score streaks will actually reflect that now.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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And, anyways, the main point I was making is, this is all stuff MW3 already did. And people in MW3 still play TDM in every mode. Doing it again isn't going to fix anything.
Maybe the cure is to let people play CoD like they want to, rather than how you want them to.
Either that, or put in AI bots that are programmed to play the objectives so people who want to play Capture the Flag actually can. Hey, wait, they did that in this one! Non-coincidentally, this is the first COD I'm buying new.
PSN ID: fearsomepirate
My fun always came from trying to drag a team full of headless chickens to victory. That's what pubby Dom was for.
Unfortunately, Mw3 dun went and killed that there fun by making it impossible to loosely patrol two objectives at once.
Not coincidentally I stopped playing MW3.
hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
impressive.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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This. You wanna play objective-based games? Play with a group, or accept that you're playing with people who aren't quite sure what a noun is and the game's score is gonna reflect that. 'Cause that kid who's trying to get his sik-36o-nah-skopz? He ain't gonna care if he's not getting as many points/XP. The reason he's playing Dom is because Dom lasts longer than TDM, so he's got longer to get his montage-clips/streaks.
Brutle's <shudder> right. People aren't gonna play the game how you want them to play (hi, Ducks! ;-) ), and you're not a Master Cat Herder so you're not going to be able to drag them, kicking and screaming, onto the flag you wanna take.
This isn't to say that it's not annoying when you drop into a random Dom game and you're the only one even thinking about flags; just that things like that are to be expected on the internets.
Teams' at A and I spawn at B, with C just sitting there? Leeroy! Guide my hand!
This is probably why my k/D is no where near a whole number.
I like what Treyarch are doing in regards to rewarding players more for doing objective based things (killing enemies near the objectives, capturing objectives) and less for killing random people on the map, because as people generally don't communicate, at least giving them an incentive towards a common purpose can make some kind of team work appear. In Halo 3 on Assault you'd often get a whole team running around doing their own thing, but then it wasn't uncommon to have a team start waiting for each other, covering each other and supporting even without talking. It made the games much more fun and a whole lot tenser.
I think Treyarch are definitely going down the right route, but I agree the punishments should be harsher for people ignoring the objectives. Giving them no xp is probably a bit far (not sure how frustrating it would be and would it just lead to people quitting mid-match since they had nothing to lose) but Battlefield's system of limiting spawns seems to work really well.
This is where it's at.
Score/point-streaks are a decent enough idea, but the concept could be implemented in better ways. If it were up to me, I'd probably do something like Brutle's suggesting: like, in objective game types, you don't gain XP for scoring kills. Instead, you gain a certain amount of XP for a win, and a certain amount of XP for a loss. Maybe provide bonus XP based on your margin of success, so if you won 200 to 56, you'd gain more XP than if you'd won 200 to 195.
I'd love something like that.
Having said that, though, I'm really looking forward to the new Ladder system you can queue up for. Once we get our ranking high enough, we'll basically always be playing against other full teams, or people who really want to win. I can't wait for that. I really cannot imagine how fun it's going to be to go into matches knowing that the other team isn't going to just sit in the goddamn corner to preserve their K/D while giving up the win.
-capturing objectives
-UAV assists
-kills while capturing or defending an objective
-destroy enemy equipment/streaks
-points over time for holding objectives (earn x number of points per objective held) but only if you were part of the capturing group
I know that custom game modes in the CoD series offer a lot of variations, but nothing quite this detailed. It would be great if there was a fully blown out game mode changing option to test community feel for experimental game modes. That way we could all come up with our own versions of how the game could be played and test it together for feedback. Oh well.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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Many people play COD because of the killstreak system, so limiting your access to that system by encouraging certain gameplay styles makes a lot of sense to me.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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Frankly, I think it was better before MW2 put so many killstreaks in the game. The killstreaks in MW1 and WaW were fun to get, but aside from dogs, getting them wasn't so exciting that people obsessed over it and made it the whole focus of playing. On a similar note, I discovered that winning in SnD makes you a tryhard camping n00bfag. Not my fault you came charging up the stairs after seeing two of your buddies die.
Seems to be the consensus of everyone that playing defensively is unfair and bad and n00bish and cheap and borderline cheating, so Treyarch is introducing things to try to stop players from setting up ambushes and generally wrecking the day of the ADHD kids.
PSN ID: fearsomepirate
Well, the problem with the game is camping is an unstable strategy. If everyone does it, the game fails to work.
So the trick is to allow playing defensively, but not encourage it to the point that everyone stands still.
Really. Fucking. Annoying.
Exactly. It makes the game boring for everyone to camp. Gotta encourage movement.
but they're listening to every word I say
That was one thing I liked about blops over mw. I could consistently roll over campers because the ttk was a little slower.
but they're listening to every word I say
If they're going to keep support in it should be like CoD 4 kill streaks in that there is no customization. You get a uav, ballistic vest, and recon. I think CUAV would be too frustrating if everybody was throwing it up, and putting Stealth and EMP in support was fucked up from the beginning.
{Twitter, Everybody's doing it. }{Writing and Story Blog}
Also its hilarious to suggest that Treyarch disliked camping. For proof, see any Milk Ducks video.
For less asshole-ish proof look who first introduced the portable radar. The read some of Milk Ducks posts about Blops being better than MW3 because MW3 doesn't have power positions that let you camp like crazy.
Ok maybe that wasnt any less asshol-ish.
I will, once again, point out that the reason UAV\CUAV werent spammed in MW2, and the reason Cold Blooded wasnt OP as well, was because anyone with an AR could shoot them out of the sky with less than 1 clip.
Make other people excited, too.
{Twitter, Everybody's doing it. }{Writing and Story Blog}
I can update the OP with any info you want, I thought it was pretty much covered but if theres more shit needed to be added let me know and I'll edit it.
Also 7 pages till someone else makes the new thread.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
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Also Mountain Dew is giving away double xp to Halo 4 this time around so not only do I miss out on Dub xp, but awesome gamer fuel flavors. I don't know that, maybe I'll get some cool Halo flavor.
{Twitter, Everybody's doing it. }{Writing and Story Blog}
I was kinda curious and scared about what it would taste like after all that time.
I mostly haven't checked the O in a while, but I know your opinion of the game, so I figued we should have someone else make one. Someone who is excited about the game.
I need new blood.
{Twitter, Everybody's doing it. }{Writing and Story Blog}
I'll take your Halo 4 codes since I'm getting both games. Gotta spread the love!
Twitch Wed-Sun, 2-5pm CST
I'll let you know about the codes later Spider since I'm going to rent Halo 4, and there is a possibility I might need them for myself. If not, they're all yours.
{Twitter, Everybody's doing it. }{Writing and Story Blog}