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[Starcraft2] CLOSING TIME!! GO TO THE NEW THREAD!!

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    GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    Stalkers, which you will have in spades with any Protoss Colossus based army, decimate Banshees, much faster than a gaggle of Vikings. Vikings can also be built using reactored Starports, Banshees cannot (sorry, no Tech Reactors in MP).

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
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    HounHoun Registered User regular
    WhiteRa is now playing NesTea. Didn't notice if it was a random matchup or not, though.

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    YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    Dammit, went to hit page 18 and hit Post.

    Yilias on
    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
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    HounHoun Registered User regular
    Yilias wrote: »
    Dammit, went to hit page 18 and hit Post.

    This is a good post. +1, would read again.

    I suppose I could be playing SC instead of watching SC, since I'm off work now...

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    BiosysBiosys Registered User regular
    apparently stephano's gonna continue playing sc2 next year if he wins another big us event this year

    may as well, uni's not getting any more expensive and he already has more than enough to pay for it so

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    mEEksamEEksa Registered User regular
    Hmm, apparently Idra said that he thought Stephano was a maphacker before he went to offline tournaments, because he had perfect defense and excellent early game timings. He also said that he's the second best foreigner behind Stephano (haha yeah right Idra).

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    Dropping LoadsDropping Loads Registered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Stalkers, which you will have in spades with any Protoss Colossus based army, decimate Banshees, much faster than a gaggle of Vikings. Vikings can also be built using reactored Starports, Banshees cannot (sorry, no Tech Reactors in MP).

    This is a bit of a misnomer. Stalkers take 9 shots to kill a viking and 14 shots to kill a banshee. It's the reduced range that means it's easier for Stalkers to get under the banshees. There are times when banshees are good though, like if you can get an angle above a cliff, or if the fight is over and you still have banshees left, they are much better than vikings during the "remaxing" period.

    Sceptre: Penny Arcade, where you get starcraft AND marriage advice.
    3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
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    YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Stalkers, which you will have in spades with any Protoss Colossus based army, decimate Banshees, much faster than a gaggle of Vikings. Vikings can also be built using reactored Starports, Banshees cannot (sorry, no Tech Reactors in MP).

    This is a bit of a misnomer. Stalkers take 9 shots to kill a viking and 14 shots to kill a banshee. It's the reduced range that means it's easier for Stalkers to get under the banshees. There are times when banshees are good though, like if you can get an angle above a cliff, or if the fight is over and you still have banshees left, they are much better than vikings during the "remaxing" period.

    Air units don't benefit from high ground fog.

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
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    fadingathedgesfadingathedges Registered User regular
    WhiteRa and Stephano are playing a 2's.

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    TannerMSTannerMS "I'm confidence cause I'm zerg!" Registered User regular
    You're still paying 150/100 for a unit that does as much damage as two marines. They're good, but that's a lot of money to spend on a unit that requires tech labbed starports. Also, Protoss has Phoenixes

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    BiosysBiosys Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    being able to get the vikings out so much quicker and faster because reactors is probably a big plus in their favour

    also the range thing is pretty important, positioning is soooooo important in tvp and a larger range makes it more forgiving on positional errors

    and to commit to enough banshees to kill colo and stuff that matters off fast enough is hella money

    Biosys on
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    fadingathedgesfadingathedges Registered User regular
    TannerMS wrote: »
    You're still paying 150/100 for a unit that does as much damage as two marines.

    but marine pretty good.

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    Dropping LoadsDropping Loads Registered User regular
    Yilias wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Stalkers, which you will have in spades with any Protoss Colossus based army, decimate Banshees, much faster than a gaggle of Vikings. Vikings can also be built using reactored Starports, Banshees cannot (sorry, no Tech Reactors in MP).

    This is a bit of a misnomer. Stalkers take 9 shots to kill a viking and 14 shots to kill a banshee. It's the reduced range that means it's easier for Stalkers to get under the banshees. There are times when banshees are good though, like if you can get an angle above a cliff, or if the fight is over and you still have banshees left, they are much better than vikings during the "remaxing" period.

    Air units don't benefit from high ground fog.

    Stalker range is 6, banshee range is 6. If you are above a cliff, it limits the number of stalkers that will be able to return fire. It's a better strategy for vikings though, since they can get even farther away from the cliff edge.

    Sceptre: Penny Arcade, where you get starcraft AND marriage advice.
    3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
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    Dropping LoadsDropping Loads Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    Don't get me wrong guys, I totally agree that Vikings are what you need and vikings are what you get. I'm just hypothesizing on a possible role of slowly adding in a few banshees late game, the same way you slowly add in a few ghosts. I haven't seen it done yet in a pro game, probably because it doesn't work. That said, I'd like to see what it looks like when someone does try it.

    Dropping Loads on
    Sceptre: Penny Arcade, where you get starcraft AND marriage advice.
    3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
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    BiosysBiosys Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    i guess it's one of those things like 'why doesn't every terran get a raven in every matchup' and 'why don't terrans use reapers more blah blah greater dps than mariner blah blah' that makes perfect sense to people who don't play terran, but are actually kinda hard/not great to do as terran

    Biosys on
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    theSquidtheSquid Sydney, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/4592755/Developer_Update_with_Game_Director_Dustin_Browder_-3_12_2012

    So anyone seen this? The ui changes seem like they've been a long time coming.

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    Dropping LoadsDropping Loads Registered User regular
    Haha well said!

    Sceptre: Penny Arcade, where you get starcraft AND marriage advice.
    3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
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    FuegograndeFuegogrande Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Stalkers, which you will have in spades with any Protoss Colossus based army, decimate Banshees, much faster than a gaggle of Vikings. Vikings can also be built using reactored Starports, Banshees cannot (sorry, no Tech Reactors in MP).

    This is a bit of a misnomer. Stalkers take 9 shots to kill a viking and 14 shots to kill a banshee. It's the reduced range that means it's easier for Stalkers to get under the banshees. There are times when banshees are good though, like if you can get an angle above a cliff, or if the fight is over and you still have banshees left, they are much better than vikings during the "remaxing" period.

    Just a quick note; misnomer means incorrect name. Misconception is probably what you meant.

    Fuegogrande on
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    get your own starcraft 2 signature at sc2sig.com

    "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the Zerg stop droning."-Name redacted
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    VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    mEEksa wrote: »
    Hmm, apparently Idra said that he thought Stephano was a maphacker before he went to offline tournaments, because he had perfect defense and excellent early game timings. He also said that he's the second best foreigner behind Stephano (haha yeah right Idra).

    awesome followed by hilarious

    I think that's a long list of europeans with one canadian stuffed in

    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
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    GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    Biosys wrote: »
    i guess it's one of those things like 'why doesn't every terran get a raven in every matchup' and 'why don't terrans use reapers more blah blah greater dps than mariner blah blah' that makes perfect sense to people who don't play terran, but are actually kinda hard/not great to do as terran

    It's not even that, the strategies are perfectly sound and acceptable...but completely unneeded because Marines murder everything. Humans will naturally go the path of least resistance, no matter how awesome the more difficult path tends to be. It's easier, even for a Pro, to just make a shit ton of tanks, marines and vikings, than it is to have to custom craft their unit comps like a Protoss does.

    (And no, this is not a TvP bitch post, I think the balance is fine, just a very different way to play).

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
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    fadingathedgesfadingathedges Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    4base stephano feeding 1base white ra to carriers in 2's. People should be watching these.

    e~ actually they are both P this time, and Stephano went carriers with Ra's blinkers.

    fadingathedges on
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    Dropping LoadsDropping Loads Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Stalkers, which you will have in spades with any Protoss Colossus based army, decimate Banshees, much faster than a gaggle of Vikings. Vikings can also be built using reactored Starports, Banshees cannot (sorry, no Tech Reactors in MP).

    This is a bit of a misnomer. Stalkers take 9 shots to kill a viking and 14 shots to kill a banshee. It's the reduced range that means it's easier for Stalkers to get under the banshees. There are times when banshees are good though, like if you can get an angle above a cliff, or if the fight is over and you still have banshees left, they are much better than vikings during the "remaxing" period.

    Just a quick note; misnomer means incorrect name. Misconception is probably what you meant.

    Either is correct here.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/misnomer

    Edit: Here being that the designation of Stalkers as banshee decimators is incorrect.

    Dropping Loads on
    Sceptre: Penny Arcade, where you get starcraft AND marriage advice.
    3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
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    FuegograndeFuegogrande Registered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Stalkers, which you will have in spades with any Protoss Colossus based army, decimate Banshees, much faster than a gaggle of Vikings. Vikings can also be built using reactored Starports, Banshees cannot (sorry, no Tech Reactors in MP).

    This is a bit of a misnomer. Stalkers take 9 shots to kill a viking and 14 shots to kill a banshee. It's the reduced range that means it's easier for Stalkers to get under the banshees. There are times when banshees are good though, like if you can get an angle above a cliff, or if the fight is over and you still have banshees left, they are much better than vikings during the "remaxing" period.

    Just a quick note; misnomer means incorrect name. Misconception is probably what you meant.

    Either is correct.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/misnomer

    1.
    a misapplied or inappropriate name or designation.
    2.
    an error in naming a person or thing.

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    get your own starcraft 2 signature at sc2sig.com

    "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the Zerg stop droning."-Name redacted
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    HedwirezHedwirez Registered User regular
    @Houn I really recommend Drewbie's strategy guide (http://www.complexitygaming.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4456). It does a nice job of including both an initial build order and then a bit more description so you understand what you are aiming for.

    That said, I am still really struggling with my TvP. Would anyone mind taking a look at this replay and let me know what I am doing wrong?

    http://drop.sc/133345

    I was reasonable happy with everything right up until the major battle at 16min. Clearly I lost this pretty badly because of positioning but I don't really feel that I had much option beyond storming his front - I am pretty much maxed in terms of supply cap (190/190) so it feels like if I wait around for too long his army will just max out and crush mine.

    This is how it goes in quite a lot of my TvP games, I hit supply can and then die to someone who has 40 supply less than me but the same size army. Am I building completely the wrong units or something?

    Any input is much appreciated, I can almost taste gold!

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    fadingathedgesfadingathedges Registered User regular
    I think that link proves Fuego's point?

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    YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    There was a (short) period where Marine/Thor/Banshee off 2 base was really popular. Then people realized that Feedback/Storm/Archons crushed it and then no one did it anymore.

    I can recall 2 GSL games, one on Daybreak where it lost to Zealot/Immortal/Templar, and one on Metropolis where it lost to Zealot/Stalker/Templar/Pheonix.

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
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    Dropping LoadsDropping Loads Registered User regular
    You missed my edit.

    Sceptre: Penny Arcade, where you get starcraft AND marriage advice.
    3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
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    BiosysBiosys Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    argh

    trying to remember whether it was nada or forgg that did hellion/thor/banshee vs p on cloud kingdom last season of gsl

    it didn't just instantly die to chargelots and templars and seems like it may have promise as a Thing To Do

    can't remember the game exactly, hopefully someone else does

    Biosys on
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    FuegograndeFuegogrande Registered User regular
    He doesn't call them "banshee decimators" only states that they decimate banshees, the former would make it a misnomer the latter a misconception.

    340522-1.png
    get your own starcraft 2 signature at sc2sig.com

    "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the Zerg stop droning."-Name redacted
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    Dropping LoadsDropping Loads Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    He doesn't call them "banshee decimators" only states that they decimate banshees, the former would make it a misnomer the latter a misconception.

    Fair enough. It appears I misnomered that.
    :rotate:

    Dropping Loads on
    Sceptre: Penny Arcade, where you get starcraft AND marriage advice.
    3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
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    fadingathedgesfadingathedges Registered User regular
    You guys are killing ESPORTS.

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    mEEksamEEksa Registered User regular
    Biosys wrote: »
    argh

    trying to remember whether it was nada or forgg that did hellion/thor/banshee vs p on cloud kingdom last season of gsl

    it didn't just instantly die to chargelots and templars and seems like it may have promise as a Thing To Do

    can't remember the game exactly, hopefully someone else does

    I believe that was NaDa, but I don't remember the exact game.

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    Dropping LoadsDropping Loads Registered User regular
    You guys are killing ESPORTS.

    Just a quick note, ESPORTS is trademarked. You probably meant ESPORTS™.

    Sceptre: Penny Arcade, where you get starcraft AND marriage advice.
    3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
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    BiosysBiosys Registered User regular
    ok it was nada v parting

    it was cloak banshees into a pretty strong timing if i recall correctly, it ended up being a pretty close game

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    YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    You guys are killing ESPORTS.

    Just a quick note, ESPORTS is trademarked. You probably meant ESPORTS™.

    Does that mean fading made a misnomer?

    Yilias on
    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
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    BiosysBiosys Registered User regular
    You guys are killing ESPORTS.

    Just a quick note, ESPORTS is trademarked. You probably meant ESPORTS™.

    almost had to call in the esports™ lawyers then

    you don't wanna meet esports™ lawyers

    they're like normal lawyers, only with more reddit

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    Dropping LoadsDropping Loads Registered User regular
    In this thread we learn it doesn't matter what he made, because he should have made marines.

    Sceptre: Penny Arcade, where you get starcraft AND marriage advice.
    3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
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    GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    It's not really a misconception though. Stalkers violate banshees in horrible ways. Okay, so it takes 14 shots v. 9 for a viking...now multiply those numbers by the amount of vikings your going to have in an army ($texas size numbers) vs. how many banshees you're going to have (two or three). Not to mention that 14 shots is at 0 upgrades for the stalkers, and since as a P you should be ahead in upgrades, that should come down considerably until he gets to 3/3 vehicle upgrades (if he ever does), while you're going to have 3/3 stalker upgrades relatively fast (especially if you favor double forge against Terran...I do).

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
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    FrozenzenFrozenzen Registered User regular
    In general, making marines is the right thing to do.

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    mEEksamEEksa Registered User regular
    Most people learned that lesson a long time ago.

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