[Phalla] Game Over! Way to go killer p.50 The Unfortunate Voyage of the Harbinger

Cythraul

I agree that him voting out a mafia doesn't prove he's mafia, but at least consider that it doesn't make him village either based on his previous behaviour.

Infidel

TIME TRAVEL NOOOOOOO

Cythraul

Why? We analyze posting/voting behaviour, so disregarding how someone has acted as mafia in the past is very contrary to what we're trying to accomplish here. While I agree it's not damning evidence, it should at the very least make him picking out a mafia early on a wash at best.

Infidel

Cythraul wrote: »

Why? We analyze posting/voting behaviour, so disregarding how someone has acted as mafia in the past is very contrary to what we're trying to accomplish here. While I agree it's not damning evidence, it should at the very least make him picking out a mafia early on a wash at best.

Behavioural analysis? Great!

So why would he do it?

I needed a name to post.

i would argue that the catch with that is trusting mafia actions of the past to be born of habit rather than circumstance, as they could hav

Posted from my DyPad 7

Cythraul

He had you convinced, didn't he?

Cythraul

Sorry I can be more detailed than that lol

We lost our seer day 1 (or so we assume, I don't think that was 100% but it's the general opinion), so him doing something like voting out a fellow mafia early might lose them a member, but without the ability to verify him it secures him a nice little place in the "trusted" list for some people.

I needed a name to post.

e been responding to what took place in that particular phalla with their actions, there is no control group to look at and say "this is how

Posted from my DyPad 7

Infidel

So they give up one mafia to not convince anyone about another one? To what end?

I needed a name to post.

so and so will behave in a nice 'normal' phalla". there is no normal phalla

Posted from my DyPad 7

Cythraul

If Egos were mafia and became trusted due to his vote record, he would be a last-priority target for scrutiny or death by whatever network exists. That alone would potentially be worth the risk.

Like I said though, I'm not making an argument to vote him out (not yet at least). I'm just pointing out that, after having seen him in action and read his comments on mafia proboards, I would take his previous behaviour into account when judging how much trust can be placed in him for something he has done before as mafia to gain the village's trust.

Infidel

Cythraul wrote: »

If Egos were mafia and became trusted due to his vote record, he would be a last-priority target for scrutiny or death by whatever network exists. That alone would potentially be worth the risk.

Like I said though, I'm not making an argument to vote him out (not yet at least). I'm just pointing out that, after having seen him in action and read his comments on mafia proboards, I would take his previous behaviour into account when judging how much trust can be placed in him for something he has done before as mafia to gain the village's trust.

Put a value on keeping one mafia alive possibly by giving them cred.

Now subtract one mafia immediately because you just gave them up.

Work out the net gain/loss.

And people are making this an argument to vote out Egos right now. Cause they're justifying votes with it.

Take his previous behaviour into account? GREAT. I do that all the time!

What behaviour exactly should I be concerned with?

Cythraul

I could try and defend his previous actions, but it might be a much easier task to simply ask him why he did that himself? I remember the rest of us didn't really share his point of view on the value of such an action. This wasn't an agreed upon plan by the mafia when it happened before, he simply acted and told whoever it was he voted for to basically deal with it.

Infidel

Oh, you mean like this:

[15:55] <Egos> INantp mini
[15:55] <Egos> and also I was the third to vote for him..not the first to put his head on the plate or anything
[15:55] <@Infidel>; yeah, as I mentioned, there WOULD be extenuating circumstances
[15:55] <@Infidel>; I gave a couple examples
[15:55] <@Infidel>; if he is not going to present one
[15:55] <Egos> I was just trying to buy time..which was one way we could survive (if one mafia survived after one guy got killed)
[15:55] <Spoit> that was like months ago
[15:56] <@Infidel>; then there is no reason to believe you are throwing someone under the bus
[15:56] <Egos> and not to mention he basically outed me that day in the vote because he was angry
[15:56] <Egos> that I voted for him
[15:56] <Egos> *because I voted for him
[15:56] <Egos> I blame the whole "survival" mentality
[15:56] <Egos> also I think Inantp had this whole secondary condition thing that tied people to other people
[15:56] <Egos> so coming up with a cover role was hard :I

38thDoe

He could be the Serial Killer, although I'm not sure he's the best fit there.

Infidel

38thDoe wrote: »

He could be the Serial Killer, although I'm not sure he's the best fit there.

Totally not contesting that.

But it gives no indication in favour or against that does it.

AkimboLegs

Infidel wrote: »

So they give up one mafia to not convince anyone about another one? To what end?

When he did it in Tijuana it wasn't a discussion with some end-goal, and it wasn't a "lets TRY to get mascara voted out so everyone thinks you're a good guy". We all agreed to just "post as normal" and hope to fly under the radar. So maybe I now think egos' "posting as normal" when he's mafia is to vote for fellow bad guys, if he doesn't have any real goals other than "kill the village". It's possible he didn't think the Anialos wagon would take off? Personface and SNT both had slightly larger wagons at the time.

I will admit the difference is that he seemed a little more into getting this wagon started than he did with mascara. Mascara had already been put forth (by daniant, coincidentally) as a likely mafia, whereas I think Anialos was not under any heavy scrutiny just yet.

I've never said that this an identical situation. It isn't. But I still think behaviour patterns (from post/play style, not necessarily from goals) are a good place to vote from, and I think they match reasonably well. I also find that first post he voted for corvidae and pre-defended himself really weird and awkward, but I know Egos is a good player, so I don't really know if I think he would make a post like that if he knew both were mafia, so maybe he isn't after all.

Cythraul

Yeah, like that

AkimboLegs

(Bedlam is the only person voting for Egos right now)

AkimboLegs

We uh, we actually have a massive tie for second place. We probably SHOULD get a second place going just incase.

I'll switch to daniant for now, that puts her at 2 vs about 8 people at 1.

Infidel

AkimboLegs wrote: »

Infidel wrote: »

So they give up one mafia to not convince anyone about another one? To what end?

When he did it in Tijuana it wasn't a discussion with some end-goal, and it wasn't a "lets TRY to get mascara voted out so everyone thinks you're a good guy". We all agreed to just "post as normal" and hope to fly under the radar. So maybe I now think egos' "posting as normal" when he's mafia is to vote for fellow bad guys, if he doesn't have any real goals other than "kill the village". It's possible he didn't think the Anialos wagon would take off? Personface and SNT both had slightly larger wagons at the time.

I will admit the difference is that he seemed a little more into getting this wagon started than he did with mascara. Mascara had already been put forth (by daniant, coincidentally) as a likely mafia, whereas I think Anialos was not under any heavy scrutiny just yet.

I've never said that this an identical situation. It isn't. But I still think behaviour patterns (from post/play style, not necessarily from goals) are a good place to vote from, and I think they match reasonably well. I also find that first post he voted for corvidae and pre-defended himself really weird and awkward, but I know Egos is a good player, so I don't really know if I think he would make a post like that if he knew both were mafia, so maybe he isn't after all.

Thank you.

I think having a good voting record versus making a case against an ally is a little different though. No?

As pointed out by another, mafia have to vote somewhere and never voting for another mafia is a good way for everything to unravel end-game for yourself. If you always vote on throwaways, people will attack/vig you for it. For that very reason.

The exact circumstances are pretty important. Right here, we have Egos starting a votewagon on a mafia.

If it was a mafia ploy, why did now confirmed mafia not support it to resolution?

I've played with Egos a lot and he isn't a loose cannon that is just doing things at random or for the lulz. He has really peculiar ideas and arguments though, but I don't see how this fits his behaviour with anything presented.

Infidel

AkimboLegs wrote: »

We uh, we actually have a massive tie for second place. We probably SHOULD get a second place going just incase.

I'll switch to daniant for now, that puts her at 2 vs about 8 people at 1.

No evidence of weird vote stuff but I think it's a good policy to just always assume some shit might happen yeah.

Langly

gonna roll with daniant as well. booty's got quite the lead.

Spoit

How many times in this previous behavior has he campaigned for the other mafia to be killed, rather than just placing an early vote?

AkimboLegs

Infidel wrote: »

AkimboLegs wrote: »

Infidel wrote: »

So they give up one mafia to not convince anyone about another one? To what end?

When he did it in Tijuana it wasn't a discussion with some end-goal, and it wasn't a "lets TRY to get mascara voted out so everyone thinks you're a good guy". We all agreed to just "post as normal" and hope to fly under the radar. So maybe I now think egos' "posting as normal" when he's mafia is to vote for fellow bad guys, if he doesn't have any real goals other than "kill the village". It's possible he didn't think the Anialos wagon would take off? Personface and SNT both had slightly larger wagons at the time.

I will admit the difference is that he seemed a little more into getting this wagon started than he did with mascara. Mascara had already been put forth (by daniant, coincidentally) as a likely mafia, whereas I think Anialos was not under any heavy scrutiny just yet.

I've never said that this an identical situation. It isn't. But I still think behaviour patterns (from post/play style, not necessarily from goals) are a good place to vote from, and I think they match reasonably well. I also find that first post he voted for corvidae and pre-defended himself really weird and awkward, but I know Egos is a good player, so I don't really know if I think he would make a post like that if he knew both were mafia, so maybe he isn't after all.

Thank you.

I think having a good voting record versus making a case against an ally is a little different though. No?

As pointed out by another, mafia have to vote somewhere and never voting for another mafia is a good way for everything to unravel end-game for yourself. If you always vote on throwaways, people will attack/vig you for it. For that very reason.

The exact circumstances are pretty important. Right here, we have Egos starting a votewagon on a mafia.

If it was a mafia ploy, why did now confirmed mafia not support it to resolution?

I've played with Egos a lot and he isn't a loose cannon that is just doing things at random or for the lulz. He has really peculiar ideas and arguments though, but I don't see how this fits his behaviour with anything presented.

It's not a loose-cannon thing as much as just not deliberately acting together, and that maybe he didn't think the wagon would take off. He specifically said lategame in Tijuana to just act how you would normally - so that it would be that much harder for anyone else to piece together that we were in cahoots. In my (admitedly limited) experience with him I think that he likes to vote for mafia when he is one.

Maybe that's wrong, and therefore he isn't mafia. Can't know unless you try.

And yes - I conceded he was a little more aggressive about getting this wagon started. But the reasons against Mascara had already been elucidated by someone else, so its still a little different. I also dont think people have to act exactly the same under exactly the same circumstances though Close approximation can be good enough sometimes!


I am getting way deeper into arguing this than I ever wanted initially, I just want to go play games!

38thDoe

Sorry I'm having a bit of trouble being coherent because I'm posting between matches and you guys are throwing in a page in between.
I'm fine with daniant for second.

Egos

@38thDoe

want to tell them how I helped you win ahavas game as mafia for something completely different?

38thDoe

Egos wrote: »

@38thDoe

want to tell them how I helped you win ahavas game as mafia for something completely different?

New strategy everyone, befriend the mafia, they might be the key to success?

Egos

38thDoe wrote: »

Egos wrote: »

@38thDoe

want to tell them how I helped you win ahavas game as mafia for something completely different?

New strategy everyone, befriend the mafia, they might be the key to success?

We could have killed you and the Spanish or whoever could have won instead. But no we kept you alive, because we liked you. And I had a false sense of brotherhood toward my false country (The english) O_o

Spoiler:

also I think ...if we killed you , the nation that would likely win was part of a group that fucked us up pretty badly. I think sympathy for the poor germans was in there somewhere..

Cythraul

shabooty

38thDoe

And then Cythraul was trying to rain on my parade with his "don't work with the mafia" nonsense.

Figgy

Even if Egos is mafia, there's so many other mafia out there right now that are probably ten times easier to out.

You know, without having to analyse their entire phalla history on these forums. Next we're going to be discussing Egos' rear end's propencity for diaper rash as an infant and how it's completely relevant.

Infidel

If we want to speak on Egos behaviour, one thing I could assert is that he doesn't like confrontation. I don't think I really have to dig up examples but let me know if you don't accept that.

If Egos makes a statement, and someone questions him on it, he usually backpedals or defers or something, in a "well I dunno I'm just saying =x" and that's part of why I championed the vote.

You don't bandwagon a mafia half-heartedly because you have to (as evidenced in this game and countless others) get past numerous deflections. That is what I'm good at, right or wrong. You'll have to put up some actual arguments to convince me, or act in a fashion that convinces me. Not just put up rhetoric and fallacy that peeled away leaves nothing.

In line with Egos' behaviour, he is for some reason explaining himself to me privately only. A lot of people are telling me things privately of course. He has some really good explanations AND info with the whole corvidae thing, especially since it was a mafia soft-networking and discussing suspicions before they were ever revealed.

He or I could have answered things about past history sure, but that wouldn't have given us nearly as many posts in the thread attempting to discredit him, to analyze later. Discrediting him for the same reason people want to discredit me.

AkimboLegs

After doing a chi square, I've come to the conclusion that people who had diaper rash BEFORE turning one are far more likely to be mafia.

Infidel

AkimboLegs wrote: »

After doing a chi square, I've come to the conclusion that people who had diaper rash BEFORE turning one are far more likely to be mafia.

BEHAVIOURAL SCIENCE VICTORY.

Infidel

And off for board games, so I probably won't check in much FYI.

Cythraul

38thDoe wrote: »

And then Cythraul was trying to rain on my parade with his "don't work with the mafia" nonsense.

When did I do what now!

KetBra

Shabooty seems like a good target

sportzboytjw

I should read and catch up. Is my vote on Mojo still okay?

Cythraul

No, and you're a bad person.