Being the fifth highest grossing movie in a year isn't that impressive.
And don't for get the $150 million in product placement. Even if WB was happy with the box office numbers, they still have to deal with the concerns of the advertisers. The middling reviews, polarizing reactions, and not so stellar box office numbers may discourage advertisers from making the same kinds of investments in future DC films.
Not to mention, Superman and Batman have penetrated pop culture in a way that Marvel's heroes haven't, except maybe Spider-Man. The fact that Man of Steel barely out grossed Thor 2 isn't necessarily something to brag about.
Cap will have some buzz coming out of Avengers 2, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Cap 3 earn less than Superman 2: Now with extra Batman. I'm pretty sure I know which one's going to be the better movie, too.
Biggest complaints I hear about Captain America #1 is that the villain was one dimensional and that the good guys were basically 100% good.
Both issues are probably not going to be a problem in Winter Soldier.
A lot of people complained it wasn't really a super hero movie so much as it was a War movie. I personally thought that was a brilliant move and completely appropriate for Cap's first film. I don't expect the same thing with Cap 2 though.
Was it really a lot of people, though? In any case, I think those people have confused ideas about genre. "Superhero" is not really a genre in itself. A superhero is a type of character that can be inserted into many different types of genres.
Like fantasy and science fiction "super-hero" is a genre with sub-genres under its umbrella. Super-heroes are a diverse genre that touches on war, intrigue, space opera and noir.
I would argue that "war", "intrigue", etc. are genres which feed into the superhero mythotype, but that does not make "superhero" a genre on its own.
I disagree.
A genre is defined by its own stylistic elements, but superhero stories are defined by other genres. The only element that ties superhero stories together is the superhero character itself.
Super-hero comics have numerous elements besides the super-hero itself. Mad scientists, powerful macguffins and super-villains are there, too.
I'm trying to decide how exactly I would visualize genres. I'm not sure it's exactly hierarchical, but I do think there's such a thing as ur-genres and sub-genres. Everything is some mix of comedy and tragedy, and below that you have action, adventure, fantasy, science fiction, romance, etc. Every story contains more than one genre, with different amounts of mixing going on.
When you look at Superman and Spider-Man, they're both action-adventure-science fiction, and they definitely have fairly similar tones, but if you're going to call what they do the "superhero genre", then it seems to me like it would be very hard to explain how Blade, X-Men, Captain America, Batman, etc. are examples of the same genre.
The super-hero genre is diverse. They do have overlapping elements like super-heroes, super-villains, powerful technology and it can get weirder in universes where everything is on the table, like aliens, gods and time travel. Blade is an example that could be in another genre, like urban fantasy. He does exist in a super-hero universe and face super-heroes and super-villains so there's bleed through from the super-hero genre.
The thing to remember about Superman and Batman is that both are old, reliable and familiar Hollywood properties. Decades of Superman from Max Fleischer, George Reeves and Christopher Reeve. Columbia was making Batman serials before World War II broke out. Batman and Superman was why Warner Brothers bought DC in the first place.
Being the fifth highest grossing movie in a year isn't that impressive.
And don't for get the $150 million in product placement. Even if WB was happy with the box office numbers, they still have to deal with the concerns of the advertisers. The middling reviews, polarizing reactions, and not so stellar box office numbers may discourage advertisers from making the same kinds of investments in future DC films.
The superhero genre of movies live or die based on word of mouth. Bad word of mouth killed Hulk and Superman Returns. On the other hand, Iron Man started Marvel's bid for film domination completely because people talked about it and got others to go see it. Plus RDJ, he helped too. :P
I do doubt that, barring absolutely glowing reviews, it'll beat out Cap.
All things being equal it wouldn't.
But the thing is, Batman and superman are both 7-and-a-half decade old properties and never really went away; they've been omnipresent, looming over all other superhero titles like twin everests and because of that people will go to see it.
Never mind that the newest iteration of superman was a seriously mixed bag, or how all signs point to them trying to fast track to a justice league movie, or how the casting decisions are confusing the hell out of anyone who is remotely interested in comics. People will go to see it and it will make a shit load of cash regardless of how good it actually is.
On the other hand, marvel has been doing super good with it's shared continuity system; while iron man 2 had some serious problems pretty much everything they've done has been exceptional and Chris Evans seems almost born to play this character.
I think my ideal outcome for this confrontation would be for Cap to win the battle of the box office by enough to send a message that people still care about bruce and clark, but that WB needs to rethink how they go about making superhero movies.
of course i'm kidding and this is terrible news, because no one wants Goyer's idea of a dark and gritty Green Lantern. hopefully this nothing comes from this, and it being WBs, their distaste for anything that isn't Superman or Batman leaves me with some hope at least.
of course i'm kidding and this is terrible news, because no one wants Goyer's idea of a dark and gritty Green Lantern. hopefully this nothing comes from this, and it being WBs, their distaste for anything that isn't Superman or Batman leaves me with some hope at least.
Green Lantern needed a darker tone, the movie was too silly. What it needed was balance, like what First Avenger had. That said, it's an IP where they could do a comedic take like the Guardians of the Galaxy have and still be faithful. Just don't let Goyer write it.
I don't think being "too silly" was a problem Green Lantern had. The issue was that it was just terrible. Poor acting, poor dialog, poor action, poor story.
I do doubt that, barring absolutely glowing reviews, it'll beat out Cap.
All things being equal it wouldn't.
But the thing is, Batman and superman are both 7-and-a-half decade old properties and never really went away; they've been omnipresent, looming over all other superhero titles like twin everests and because of that people will go to see it.
Never mind that the newest iteration of superman was a seriously mixed bag, or how all signs point to them trying to fast track to a justice league movie, or how the casting decisions are confusing the hell out of anyone who is remotely interested in comics. People will go to see it and it will make a shit load of cash regardless of how good it actually is.
On the other hand, marvel has been doing super good with it's shared continuity system; while iron man 2 had some serious problems pretty much everything they've done has been exceptional and Chris Evans seems almost born to play this character.
I think my ideal outcome for this confrontation would be for Cap to win the battle of the box office by enough to send a message that people still care about bruce and clark, but that WB needs to rethink how they go about making superhero movies.
Romeo and Juliet never really went away for centuries either. That doesn't mean a retelling is going to dominate the box office. As has been demonstrated repeatedly now while Batman and Supes can draw a crowd it's not the same size as the Avengers feeding off each other's synergy.
Iron Man 2 actually pulled in more money than Man of Steel.
Again, I don't doubt that BvS will recoup their investment. But that's about as realistic a prediction I can give given WB's current approach to DC's stuff. I'm just not optimistic about it.
I have a random question, though I might regret the answer. When do you think we'll get an openly LGBT character in a superhero movie? By which I mean the character has be out in the movie; no counting Mystique or Veronica Hand or something just because of the comics.
You know what? Nanowrimo's cancelled on account of the world is stupid.
I have a random question, though I might regret the answer. When do you think we'll get an openly LGBT character in a superhero movie? By which I mean the character has be out in the movie; no counting Mystique or Veronica Hand or something just because of the comics.
I have a random question, though I might regret the answer. When do you think we'll get an openly LGBT character in a superhero movie? By which I mean the character has be out in the movie; no counting Mystique or Veronica Hand or something just because of the comics.
any character at all? or lead character?
I don't have much hope of a lead character anytime soon. Let's say that...at minimum, the character has to have a name and doesn't get killed off in the first scene or so. If we're talking about a TV show like Agents of Shield, they have to be a recurring character and not a single-episode cameo.
You know what? Nanowrimo's cancelled on account of the world is stupid.
I have a random question, though I might regret the answer. When do you think we'll get an openly LGBT character in a superhero movie? By which I mean the character has be out in the movie; no counting Mystique or Veronica Hand or something just because of the comics.
any character at all? or lead character?
I don't have much hope of a lead character anytime soon. Let's say that...at minimum, the character has to have a name and doesn't get killed off in the first scene or so. If we're talking about a TV show like Agents of Shield, they have to be a recurring character and not a single-episode cameo.
The issue is compounded by the requirement that you need to know they're LGBT from only the movie. Sexuality doesn't come up that much for non-leads.
Example, for Cap 2:
We're shown people assuming that Cap is straight and him going along. We can sorta draw the inference that Fury is (he mentioned a wife IIRC, though that could easily be a lie from context) and can sorta stretch to assume Widow is from the kissing scene but I don't think that's definite. Oh, and corrupt senator talks about banging a 23 year old but I don't remember if he's really clear on gender.
Falcon? No clue at all. Now I could have easily missed some hetronomative statement, it wasn't like I was looking for it when I saw it last night, but I don't remember him talking about family or relationships at all except with his wingman.
After that, it's all minor roles where sexuality isn't likely to come up whatever it is. The only minor role we have a clue at it was only included to show he was a bad guy, not really the kind of light to advocate for.
I sat down to watch Spider-Man (2002) back-to-back with The Amazing Spider-Man (2012), and... ASM puts up a pretty strong fight. I'm not really sure which one is better, since SM had a horrible Parker and terrible MJ, but ASM's Spider-Man was weaksauce.
You know who else ASM got right? Flash Thompson. They canceled his comic last year, but I'm hoping we get a good Venom movie.
Flash gets to keep on trucking in Thunderbolts though so I wasn't too sad to see Venom end. Thunderbolts even picks up on the hell mark plot line from Venom.
The initial issues are pretty weak but the entire run turns around once Daniel Way gets dumped.
I have a random question, though I might regret the answer. When do you think we'll get an openly LGBT character in a superhero movie? By which I mean the character has be out in the movie; no counting Mystique or Veronica Hand or something just because of the comics.
any character at all? or lead character?
I don't have much hope of a lead character anytime soon. Let's say that...at minimum, the character has to have a name and doesn't get killed off in the first scene or so. If we're talking about a TV show like Agents of Shield, they have to be a recurring character and not a single-episode cameo.
The issue is compounded by the requirement that you need to know they're LGBT from only the movie. Sexuality doesn't come up that much for non-leads.
Example, for Cap 2:
We're shown people assuming that Cap is straight and him going along. We can sorta draw the inference that Fury is (he mentioned a wife IIRC, though that could easily be a lie from context) and can sorta stretch to assume Widow is from the kissing scene but I don't think that's definite. Oh, and corrupt senator talks about banging a 23 year old but I don't remember if he's really clear on gender.
Falcon? No clue at all. Now I could have easily missed some hetronomative statement, it wasn't like I was looking for it when I saw it last night, but I don't remember him talking about family or relationships at all except with his wingman.
After that, it's all minor roles where sexuality isn't likely to come up whatever it is. The only minor role we have a clue at it was only included to show he was a bad guy, not really the kind of light to advocate for.
First Avenger and Winter Soldier spoilers
Both movies confirmed he's straight. His only love interest is Peggy, and a big sub-plot in the first movie is Steve's romantic relationship with her - which had her getting jealous of him kissing other women. All the "fondue" and "dancing" talk are easy to draw into being euphemisms for sex with women. He's inexperienced but willing. Widow only gave girls for date to Steve, if she thought he was interested sexually in men she'd have done the same thing, only with a different sex.
Falcon talks about Steve coming to his office to impress his female secretary, that's the only romantic clue we have about his sexuality.
We do need LGBT super-heroes and main characters in movies and tv shows badly. AOS spoilers
Victoria Hand is gay in the comics, unfortunately she died. That was AoS perfect opportunity for a re-occurring gay character.
We do need LGBT super-heroes and main characters in movies and tv shows badly. AOS spoilers
Victoria Hand is gay in the comics, unfortunately she died. That was AoS perfect opportunity for a re-occurring gay character.
AoS
[citation needed] on Hand dying. It looks a lot like she died, but she only took one more bullet than Skye did recently, who is still alive.
I'm not arguing that she's still alive, I'm just saying that we probably shouldn't assume that she is, given the nature of the medium. Agents of Shield has yet to officially murder its lesbian character. Though Joss Whedon has his fingerprints on the show, it IS only a matter of time.
We do need LGBT super-heroes and main characters in movies and tv shows badly. AOS spoilers
Victoria Hand is gay in the comics, unfortunately she died. That was AoS perfect opportunity for a re-occurring gay character.
AoS
[citation needed] on Hand dying. It looks a lot like she died, but she only took one more bullet than Skye did recently, who is still alive.
I'm not arguing that she's still alive, I'm just saying that we probably shouldn't assume that she is, given the nature of the medium. Agents of Shield has yet to officially murder its lesbian character. Though Joss Whedon has his fingerprints on the show, it IS only a matter of time.
It looked to me like they shot her in the head. Aslo: Skye got an infusion of blue guy stuff in fairly short order. last I checked that guy is buried under a few hundread tons of rock.
We do need LGBT super-heroes and main characters in movies and tv shows badly. AOS spoilers
Victoria Hand is gay in the comics, unfortunately she died. That was AoS perfect opportunity for a re-occurring gay character.
AoS
[citation needed] on Hand dying. It looks a lot like she died, but she only took one more bullet than Skye did recently, who is still alive.
I'm not arguing that she's still alive, I'm just saying that we probably shouldn't assume that she is, given the nature of the medium. Agents of Shield has yet to officially murder its lesbian character. Though Joss Whedon has his fingerprints on the show, it IS only a matter of time.
It looked to me like they shot her in the head. Aslo: Skye got an infusion of blue guy stuff in fairly short order. last I checked that guy is buried under a few hundread tons of rock.
More AoS
He shot the goons in the head, I thought he shot her in the chest, at least initially. Regardless, what two individuals were also in the Guest House, where the regenerative Blue Man Soup was, at the same time as Coulson? Ward and Garrett. Who are on the plane, and who might consider Victoria Hand, one of the highest ranked SHIELD loyalists left, to be too useful a chip to throw away so easily. We're also not 100% on Ward being full-on Hydra yet.
Again, I'm NOT arguing that she's alive. I'm just stating that assuming that she's dead in the Marvel universe is probably a mistake. I'd wait to see what happens in the next couple episodes first.
We do need LGBT super-heroes and main characters in movies and tv shows badly. AOS spoilers
Victoria Hand is gay in the comics, unfortunately she died. That was AoS perfect opportunity for a re-occurring gay character.
AoS
[citation needed] on Hand dying. It looks a lot like she died, but she only took one more bullet than Skye did recently, who is still alive.
I'm not arguing that she's still alive, I'm just saying that we probably shouldn't assume that she is, given the nature of the medium. Agents of Shield has yet to officially murder its lesbian character. Though Joss Whedon has his fingerprints on the show, it IS only a matter of time.
It looked to me like they shot her in the head. Aslo: Skye got an infusion of blue guy stuff in fairly short order. last I checked that guy is buried under a few hundread tons of rock.
More AoS
He shot the goons in the head, I thought he shot her in the chest, at least initially. Regardless, what two individuals were also in the Guest House, where the regenerative Blue Man Soup was, at the same time as Coulson? Ward and Garrett. Who are on the plane, and who might consider Victoria Hand, one of the highest ranked SHIELD loyalists left, to be too useful a chip to throw away so easily. We're also not 100% on Ward being full-on Hydra yet.
Again, I'm NOT arguing that she's alive. I'm just stating that assuming that she's dead in the Marvel universe is probably a mistake. I'd wait to see what happens in the next couple episodes first.
the thing is
the way they filmed him shooting her is tv-speak for 'dead and buried'. About the most explicit you can get on a channel like this, I'm told.
which doesn't prevent my (and your) pet theory that, through Garrett, Hydra has reverse-engineered Kree blood and are itching for a test subject.
It's important (at least to me) that we get a third data point for "infusion of Kree blood".
We know that Coulson required a lot of superscience
- after several days of being dead.
- being stabbed by an Asgardian in the heart
We know that Skye metabolized the serum without issue.
- she was still alive when they injected her (or maybe she had died for a few seconds. I don't remember the order of events that clearly)
- she was shot with normal bullets
- might be magical
If they inject Hand with a version
- she was shot with normal bullets
- she's been dead for much less time
It's a good opportunity to bring the character back and give us more information.
We do need LGBT super-heroes and main characters in movies and tv shows badly. AOS spoilers
Victoria Hand is gay in the comics, unfortunately she died. That was AoS perfect opportunity for a re-occurring gay character.
AoS
[citation needed] on Hand dying. It looks a lot like she died, but she only took one more bullet than Skye did recently, who is still alive.
I'm not arguing that she's still alive, I'm just saying that we probably shouldn't assume that she is, given the nature of the medium. Agents of Shield has yet to officially murder its lesbian character. Though Joss Whedon has his fingerprints on the show, it IS only a matter of time.
It looked to me like they shot her in the head. Aslo: Skye got an infusion of blue guy stuff in fairly short order. last I checked that guy is buried under a few hundread tons of rock.
More AoS
He shot the goons in the head, I thought he shot her in the chest, at least initially. Regardless, what two individuals were also in the Guest House, where the regenerative Blue Man Soup was, at the same time as Coulson? Ward and Garrett. Who are on the plane, and who might consider Victoria Hand, one of the highest ranked SHIELD loyalists left, to be too useful a chip to throw away so easily. We're also not 100% on Ward being full-on Hydra yet.
Again, I'm NOT arguing that she's alive. I'm just stating that assuming that she's dead in the Marvel universe is probably a mistake. I'd wait to see what happens in the next couple episodes first.
the thing is
the way they filmed him shooting her is tv-speak for 'dead and buried'. About the most explicit you can get on a channel like this, I'm told.
which doesn't prevent my (and your) pet theory that, through Garrett, Hydra has reverse-engineered Kree blood and are itching for a test subject.
It's important (at least to me) that we get a third data point for "infusion of Kree blood".
We know that Coulson required a lot of superscience
- after several days of being dead.
- being stabbed by an Asgardian in the heart
We know that Skye metabolized the serum without issue.
- she was still alive when they injected her (or maybe she had died for a few seconds. I don't remember the order of events that clearly)
- she was shot with normal bullets
- might be magical
If they inject Hand with a version
- she was shot with normal bullets
- she's been dead for much less time
It's a good opportunity to bring the character back and give us more information.
With regard to TV Speak:
TV Speak lies, especially with regard to comic-book-style franchises, and especially when the "Whedon" name is on it. "Oh, they finally put Tara's actress in the opening credits... oh."
Screwing with our preconceived notions is a time-honored tradition, so much so that, unless someone falls from a great height and you see them landing on a car, you nowendays have to assume they're still alive.
We do need LGBT super-heroes and main characters in movies and tv shows badly. AOS spoilers
Victoria Hand is gay in the comics, unfortunately she died. That was AoS perfect opportunity for a re-occurring gay character.
AoS
[citation needed] on Hand dying. It looks a lot like she died, but she only took one more bullet than Skye did recently, who is still alive.
I'm not arguing that she's still alive, I'm just saying that we probably shouldn't assume that she is, given the nature of the medium. Agents of Shield has yet to officially murder its lesbian character. Though Joss Whedon has his fingerprints on the show, it IS only a matter of time.
It looked to me like they shot her in the head. Aslo: Skye got an infusion of blue guy stuff in fairly short order. last I checked that guy is buried under a few hundread tons of rock.
More AoS
He shot the goons in the head, I thought he shot her in the chest, at least initially. Regardless, what two individuals were also in the Guest House, where the regenerative Blue Man Soup was, at the same time as Coulson? Ward and Garrett. Who are on the plane, and who might consider Victoria Hand, one of the highest ranked SHIELD loyalists left, to be too useful a chip to throw away so easily. We're also not 100% on Ward being full-on Hydra yet.
Again, I'm NOT arguing that she's alive. I'm just stating that assuming that she's dead in the Marvel universe is probably a mistake. I'd wait to see what happens in the next couple episodes first.
the thing is
the way they filmed him shooting her is tv-speak for 'dead and buried'. About the most explicit you can get on a channel like this, I'm told.
which doesn't prevent my (and your) pet theory that, through Garrett, Hydra has reverse-engineered Kree blood and are itching for a test subject.
It's important (at least to me) that we get a third data point for "infusion of Kree blood".
We know that Coulson required a lot of superscience
- after several days of being dead.
- being stabbed by an Asgardian in the heart
We know that Skye metabolized the serum without issue.
- she was still alive when they injected her (or maybe she had died for a few seconds. I don't remember the order of events that clearly)
- she was shot with normal bullets
- might be magical
If they inject Hand with a version
- she was shot with normal bullets
- she's been dead for much less time
It's a good opportunity to bring the character back and give us more information.
With regard to TV Speak:
TV Speak lies, especially with regard to comic-book-style franchises, and especially when the "Whedon" name is on it. "Oh, they finally put Tara's actress in the opening credits... oh."
Screwing with our preconceived notions is a time-honored tradition, so much so that, unless someone falls from a great height and you see them landing on a car, you nowendays have to assume they're still alive.
We do need LGBT super-heroes and main characters in movies and tv shows badly. AOS spoilers
Victoria Hand is gay in the comics, unfortunately she died. That was AoS perfect opportunity for a re-occurring gay character.
AoS
[citation needed] on Hand dying. It looks a lot like she died, but she only took one more bullet than Skye did recently, who is still alive.
I'm not arguing that she's still alive, I'm just saying that we probably shouldn't assume that she is, given the nature of the medium. Agents of Shield has yet to officially murder its lesbian character. Though Joss Whedon has his fingerprints on the show, it IS only a matter of time.
It looked to me like they shot her in the head. Aslo: Skye got an infusion of blue guy stuff in fairly short order. last I checked that guy is buried under a few hundread tons of rock.
More AoS
He shot the goons in the head, I thought he shot her in the chest, at least initially. Regardless, what two individuals were also in the Guest House, where the regenerative Blue Man Soup was, at the same time as Coulson? Ward and Garrett. Who are on the plane, and who might consider Victoria Hand, one of the highest ranked SHIELD loyalists left, to be too useful a chip to throw away so easily. We're also not 100% on Ward being full-on Hydra yet.
Again, I'm NOT arguing that she's alive. I'm just stating that assuming that she's dead in the Marvel universe is probably a mistake. I'd wait to see what happens in the next couple episodes first.
the thing is
the way they filmed him shooting her is tv-speak for 'dead and buried'. About the most explicit you can get on a channel like this, I'm told.
which doesn't prevent my (and your) pet theory that, through Garrett, Hydra has reverse-engineered Kree blood and are itching for a test subject.
It's important (at least to me) that we get a third data point for "infusion of Kree blood".
We know that Coulson required a lot of superscience
- after several days of being dead.
- being stabbed by an Asgardian in the heart
We know that Skye metabolized the serum without issue.
- she was still alive when they injected her (or maybe she had died for a few seconds. I don't remember the order of events that clearly)
- she was shot with normal bullets
- might be magical
If they inject Hand with a version
- she was shot with normal bullets
- she's been dead for much less time
It's a good opportunity to bring the character back and give us more information.
With regard to TV Speak:
TV Speak lies, especially with regard to comic-book-style franchises, and especially when the "Whedon" name is on it. "Oh, they finally put Tara's actress in the opening credits... oh."
Screwing with our preconceived notions is a time-honored tradition, so much so that, unless someone falls from a great height and you see them landing on a car, you nowendays have to assume they're still alive.
I agree with you on your points, though.
This Whedon has a higher kill count on his tv shows than Joss did.
I still think there might be some reverse double cross thing going on with Ward/Hand. Notably how Coulson pulled Ward aside and told him something we didn't hear. Either way, Hand wouldn't count unless they actually said she was a lesbian in-series. And if she is dead, I sincerely doubt they're going to do that.
Funnily enough, a few days after my original post, comicbooksresources had an article about the lack of LGBT in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. It had like 100 comments on whedonesque.
You know what? Nanowrimo's cancelled on account of the world is stupid.
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Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
I still think there might be some reverse double cross thing going on with Ward/Hand. Notably how Coulson pulled Ward aside and told him something we didn't hear. Either way, Hand wouldn't count unless they actually said she was a lesbian in-series. And if she is dead, I sincerely doubt they're going to do that.
Funnily enough, a few days after my original post, comicbooksresources had an article about the lack of LGBT in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. It had like 100 comments on whedonesque.
AoS
I don't actually disagree that Ward could be some kind of ridiculous double agent. This show hasn't had strong enough writing so far to NOT attempt that. However, Ward was clearly being told that Garrett was a traitor. It was paired with Triplett's reaction to same, the meaning couldn't have been more clear.
Again, they COULD later on say that he was real quick telling him to go undercover, but I'm just saying it's bad writing.
Considering the only love interest of his I can think of is his terrible relationship with Crystal of the Inhumans, I don't think making him gay would be a big deal.
Considering the only love interest of his I can think of is his terrible relationship with Crystal of the Inhumans, I don't think making him gay would be a big deal.
He banged his sister in the Ultimate universe.
There's no real reason to bring that up; I just like making people cringe and highlighting how terrible Jeph Loeb is.
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chiasaur11Never doubt a raccoon.Do you think it's trademarked?Registered Userregular
Considering the only love interest of his I can think of is his terrible relationship with Crystal of the Inhumans, I don't think making him gay would be a big deal.
He banged his sister in the Ultimate universe.
There's no real reason to bring that up; I just like making people cringe and highlighting how terrible Jeph Loeb is.
That isn't the "best" bit.
That's how Captain America reacted to that with, basically "What in the fucking fuck, that is gross", and the Wasp responded with something in the key of "Oh, Steve you old fuddy-duddy. Get with the times."
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And don't for get the $150 million in product placement. Even if WB was happy with the box office numbers, they still have to deal with the concerns of the advertisers. The middling reviews, polarizing reactions, and not so stellar box office numbers may discourage advertisers from making the same kinds of investments in future DC films.
Cap will have some buzz coming out of Avengers 2, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Cap 3 earn less than Superman 2: Now with extra Batman. I'm pretty sure I know which one's going to be the better movie, too.
I disagree.
Super-hero comics have numerous elements besides the super-hero itself. Mad scientists, powerful macguffins and super-villains are there, too.
The super-hero genre is diverse. They do have overlapping elements like super-heroes, super-villains, powerful technology and it can get weirder in universes where everything is on the table, like aliens, gods and time travel. Blade is an example that could be in another genre, like urban fantasy. He does exist in a super-hero universe and face super-heroes and super-villains so there's bleed through from the super-hero genre.
I do doubt that, barring absolutely glowing reviews, it'll beat out Cap.
The superhero genre of movies live or die based on word of mouth. Bad word of mouth killed Hulk and Superman Returns. On the other hand, Iron Man started Marvel's bid for film domination completely because people talked about it and got others to go see it. Plus RDJ, he helped too. :P
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All things being equal it wouldn't.
But the thing is, Batman and superman are both 7-and-a-half decade old properties and never really went away; they've been omnipresent, looming over all other superhero titles like twin everests and because of that people will go to see it.
Never mind that the newest iteration of superman was a seriously mixed bag, or how all signs point to them trying to fast track to a justice league movie, or how the casting decisions are confusing the hell out of anyone who is remotely interested in comics. People will go to see it and it will make a shit load of cash regardless of how good it actually is.
On the other hand, marvel has been doing super good with it's shared continuity system; while iron man 2 had some serious problems pretty much everything they've done has been exceptional and Chris Evans seems almost born to play this character.
I think my ideal outcome for this confrontation would be for Cap to win the battle of the box office by enough to send a message that people still care about bruce and clark, but that WB needs to rethink how they go about making superhero movies.
David S. Goyer has expressed interest in working on the next Green Lantern film!!!
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2014/04/01/david-s-goyer-interested-in-adapting-green-lantern
http://collider.com/david-s-goyer-da-vincis-demons-season-2-man-of-steel-interview/
of course i'm kidding and this is terrible news, because no one wants Goyer's idea of a dark and gritty Green Lantern. hopefully this nothing comes from this, and it being WBs, their distaste for anything that isn't Superman or Batman leaves me with some hope at least.
Green Lantern needed a darker tone, the movie was too silly. What it needed was balance, like what First Avenger had. That said, it's an IP where they could do a comedic take like the Guardians of the Galaxy have and still be faithful. Just don't let Goyer write it.
Romeo and Juliet never really went away for centuries either. That doesn't mean a retelling is going to dominate the box office. As has been demonstrated repeatedly now while Batman and Supes can draw a crowd it's not the same size as the Avengers feeding off each other's synergy.
Iron Man 2 actually pulled in more money than Man of Steel.
Again, I don't doubt that BvS will recoup their investment. But that's about as realistic a prediction I can give given WB's current approach to DC's stuff. I'm just not optimistic about it.
any character at all? or lead character?
I don't have much hope of a lead character anytime soon. Let's say that...at minimum, the character has to have a name and doesn't get killed off in the first scene or so. If we're talking about a TV show like Agents of Shield, they have to be a recurring character and not a single-episode cameo.
The issue is compounded by the requirement that you need to know they're LGBT from only the movie. Sexuality doesn't come up that much for non-leads.
Example, for Cap 2:
Falcon? No clue at all. Now I could have easily missed some hetronomative statement, it wasn't like I was looking for it when I saw it last night, but I don't remember him talking about family or relationships at all except with his wingman.
After that, it's all minor roles where sexuality isn't likely to come up whatever it is. The only minor role we have a clue at it was only included to show he was a bad guy, not really the kind of light to advocate for.
You know who else ASM got right? Flash Thompson. They canceled his comic last year, but I'm hoping we get a good Venom movie.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
The initial issues are pretty weak but the entire run turns around once Daniel Way gets dumped.
I've been reading Thunderbolts as the drop on Marvel DCU. Interesting team.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
I...what? This...sounds awful.
First Avenger and Winter Soldier spoilers
Falcon talks about Steve coming to his office to impress his female secretary, that's the only romantic clue we have about his sexuality.
We do need LGBT super-heroes and main characters in movies and tv shows badly. AOS spoilers
AoS
I'm not arguing that she's still alive, I'm just saying that we probably shouldn't assume that she is, given the nature of the medium. Agents of Shield has yet to officially murder its lesbian character. Though Joss Whedon has his fingerprints on the show, it IS only a matter of time.
Especially now that
More AoS
Again, I'm NOT arguing that she's alive. I'm just stating that assuming that she's dead in the Marvel universe is probably a mistake. I'd wait to see what happens in the next couple episodes first.
It's possible one of the established non-Mystique LBGT mutants could show up in DoFP.
the way they filmed him shooting her is tv-speak for 'dead and buried'. About the most explicit you can get on a channel like this, I'm told.
which doesn't prevent my (and your) pet theory that, through Garrett, Hydra has reverse-engineered Kree blood and are itching for a test subject.
It's important (at least to me) that we get a third data point for "infusion of Kree blood".
We know that Coulson required a lot of superscience
- after several days of being dead.
- being stabbed by an Asgardian in the heart
We know that Skye metabolized the serum without issue.
- she was still alive when they injected her (or maybe she had died for a few seconds. I don't remember the order of events that clearly)
- she was shot with normal bullets
- might be magical
If they inject Hand with a version
- she was shot with normal bullets
- she's been dead for much less time
It's a good opportunity to bring the character back and give us more information.
With regard to TV Speak:
Screwing with our preconceived notions is a time-honored tradition, so much so that, unless someone falls from a great height and you see them landing on a car, you nowendays have to assume they're still alive.
I agree with you on your points, though.
that's fair.
Funnily enough, a few days after my original post, comicbooksresources had an article about the lack of LGBT in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. It had like 100 comments on whedonesque.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
You're thinking of Northstar.
o yeah that is probably true
they seem like almost the same character to me
well quicksilver should be gay
No.
Again, they COULD later on say that he was real quick telling him to go undercover, but I'm just saying it's bad writing.
Considering the only love interest of his I can think of is his terrible relationship with Crystal of the Inhumans, I don't think making him gay would be a big deal.
He banged his sister in the Ultimate universe.
There's no real reason to bring that up; I just like making people cringe and highlighting how terrible Jeph Loeb is.
That isn't the "best" bit.
That's how Captain America reacted to that with, basically "What in the fucking fuck, that is gross", and the Wasp responded with something in the key of "Oh, Steve you old fuddy-duddy. Get with the times."
Why I fear the ocean.